Computer and printer prices to rise in EU because you can print copywritten stuff

[Chippiewill]

The Court of Justice of the European Union handed down a ruling today that paves the way for levies on anything that can print from a computer. Inkjets, laser printers, multifunction devices, you name it — they're all in line for a price hike.

The legal shenanigans were kicked off by Verwertungsgesellschaft Wort, the group that handles the collection of secondary royalties for copyrighted works in Germany. VG Wort brought a suit against Canon, Epson, Fujitsu, HP, and Kyocera’s German branches.

The complaint? That printers allow people to reproduce copyright-protected works. That being the case, VG Wort believed that a levy should be collected by the companies that sell printers to compensate rights holders.

That’s right. VG Wort went to court because the printers HP sells in Germany might be used to print out a copy of the latest Neil Gaiman epic. Amazingly, the Court of Justice agreed. According to the ruling, any EU member state that allows its citizens to make copies of a work for private use must set up a system that compensates authors for those potential reproductions.

Computer-attached printers are targeted, but the ruling actually says that computers are fair game, too. Yes, HP may be forced to pay a printing levy on a computer and pass that expense on to consumers — even if they never hook that computer up to a printer.

Companies that sell other devices that can be used to reproduce such works — like pencils, pens, and typewriters — are apparently off the hook. Unless, of course, VG Wort can convince the Court that a hand, a pen, and a sheet of paper constitutes a “chain of devices.”
http://www.geek.com/news/computer-and-printers-prices-to-rise-in-eu-because-you-can-print-copywritten-stuff-1560406/

I would typically post something like this in TD but I figured this would give Dan a seizure or something.

This is literally paying fines for crimes we haven't committed, I am simply at a loss as to why anyone thought this was a good or effective idea. I don't even know of anyone who's bothered printing a book anyway, it's probably cheaper just to buy the book due to ink costs, then add in the fact that most people have ebook readers and tablets anyway.. I am thoroughly perplexed who this is meant to hurt - since it's clearly not the pirates.

[FlyingJesus]

That is hilarious I'm gonna set up a copyrighting company and sue the entire EU for the ability to speak out loud

[Yawn]

really ******* interesting!

http://cheryl-online.net/gallery/albums/GIFs/X%20Factor/Season%207/709x0006.gif

Edited by Lee (Forum Super Moderator): Do not create pointless posts.

[mrwoooooooo]

Printers should be removed from the face of the earth anyway. Stupid things

Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk 2

[peteyt]

Printers should be removed from the face of the earth anyway. Stupid things

Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk 2

Sadly they are needed.

I hope this gets changed though because ink is already stupidly high. I'm looking for a new printer, a wireless one and fancy a one with a screen so I can print stuff out without a computer connected which is handy if my PC ever breaks. The printers are actually cheap it's the ink that's expensive.

[-:Undertaker:-]

As i've said before, this is why I oppose EU decisions even when they 'benefit' us with cheaper services or goods (which they usually don't as companies recover costs in other ways anyway, but yeah for arguments sake) - because whether the EU takes a good or a bad decision in your view, the point is that that decision should be taken at a national level in our sovereign parliament which is accountable to the electorate as opposed to the European Commission which is accountable to no one.

[Chippiewill]

Alternatively the real answer is to make the EC accountable (And in fact all parts of the EU accountable) to the electroate.

[-:Undertaker:-]

Alternatively the real answer is to make the EC accountable (And in fact all parts of the EU accountable) to the electroate.

Which is impossible because the European continent does not have a demos and with no demos (aka a 'people') you cannot have a real democracy.

[Chippiewill]

Which is impossible because the European continent does not have a demos and with no demos (aka a 'people') you cannot have a real democracy.

Then make one..

[-:Undertaker:-]

Then make one..

Like 'Yugoslavia'? like the 'Soviet people'?

While the national identities of Europe (languages, culture, art, history, music, food, drink, flag, faith - everything) continue to exist, the concept of a single European identity will remain as distant as the prospect of Yugoslavia or the Soviet Union ever being a nation was. Politicians sitting around tables cannot create national identities anymore than I can fly to university on a broomstick.

Sure they [USSR + Yugoslavia] 'existed' as political entities ... but they only existed because they were held together by force rather than by will or any national feeling of a single people. And that's the only way you'd ever manage to hold together a single Europe, by force.

[Chippiewill]

USA worked out pretty well, why not USE?

[-:Undertaker:-]

USA worked out pretty well, why not USE?

USA has a single monoculture (language, culture etc) that binds it together along with a shared history of rebellion against the former British Empire. The USA started from nothingness and thus was easier to shape and mold at the beginning as opposed to Europe with the history of the likes of Britain, Germany and France spanning back more than a thousand years. The concept of a country called Europe is as absurd and unworkable as the concept of a country called Asia or Africa.

Besides, Britain has worked out pretty well - and so has France.. so why even consider their abolition?

[Chippiewill]

USA has a single monoculture (language, culture etc) that binds it together along with a shared history of rebellion against the former British Empire. The USA started from nothingness and thus was easier to shape and mold at the beginning as opposed to Europe with the history of the likes of Britain, Germany and France spanning back more than a thousand years. USA certainly has one language, a single culture? Not really.


The concept of a country called Europe is as absurd and unworkable as the concept of a country called Asia or Africa.You're saying because it doesn't sound like a country it couldn't be one?


Besides, Britain has worked out pretty well - and so has France.. so why even consider their abolition?Increasing global competition, Britain is a very small island.

[-:Undertaker:-]

USA certainly has one language, a single culture? Not really.

Yes it does, sure there are some differences across the country (just as there are between Yorkshire and Scotland) but they are broadly united in language, culture, politics, law and so on. There exists an American people simply because they feel it.


You're saying because it doesn't sound like a country it couldn't be one?

No, i'm saying that simply because the USA has 'America' (the name of a continent) in it doesn't mean the same system of government is applicable to every other continent which is why (if you follow history and current affairs) you'd see how absurd the concept of a US of Africa or US of Asia is when you take into account the massive differences between the countries on those continents.

A lot of people forget after all that North America (the continent) is home to 23 vastly different countries, not just one [the US]. In the same way that the continent of Europe is home to 50 or so vastly different countries.


Increasing global competition, Britain is a very small island.

Since when did geography or even population determine economic results? just ask Singapore.

Besides, the last time I checked Britain was in the top 10 global economies and is expected to remain in the top 20 by 2050.

[Chippiewill]

Yes it does, sure there are some differences across the country (just as there are between Yorkshire and Scotland) but they are broadly united in language, culture, politics, law and so on. There exists an American people simply because they feel it.
Have you ever been to America? You get the kind of cultural differences the UK has within states. Different states are radically different.

[-:Undertaker:-]

Have you ever been to America? You get the kind of cultural differences the UK has within states. Different states are radically different.

I don't dispute that, just as London may be 'radically' different when compared with Northern Ireland. The point is, people still feel the same enough to form the concept of a Britain or an America whereas people do not feel the same way in Europe - which is why there exists no European demos and therefore there cannot exist a European nation.

And politicians signing treaties, denying us a say and hiding the true intentions of the EU won't bring it about either. Infact they'll do the opposite.

[Calum0812]

This is almost as good as some of Apple's lawsuits.
Really is stupid. As touched on in the quote, they may aswell sue pencil and pen makers too...

[dbgtz]

This is almost as good as some of Apple's lawsuits.
Really is stupid. As touched on in the quote, they may aswell sue pencil and pen makers too...

They should just try and censor the inter- oh.

I don't think these people understand real criminals, in general, don't just pop down to the local shop to get what they need.

[Calum0812]

They should just try and censor the inter- oh.

I don't think these people understand real criminals, in general, don't just pop down to the local shop to get what they need.
Exactly. Can you imagine the issues that will arise now 3D printing is becoming a reality too (on a consumer level)?

http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/pirate3d/the-buccaneer-the-3d-printer-that-everyone-can-use

[Ardemax]

As i've said before, this is why I oppose EU decisions even when they 'benefit' us with cheaper services or goods (which they usually don't as companies recover costs in other ways anyway, but yeah for arguments sake) - because whether the EU takes a good or a bad decision in your view, the point is that that decision should be taken at a national level in our sovereign parliament which is accountable to the electorate as opposed to the European Commission which is accountable to no one.

One point in regards to the last bit of your quote, if we are capable of making our own decisions then why is it down to the EU to pass them?

Like why haven't our government made laws like this before or made any of the laws considered "well thought out" by the EU?

[-:Undertaker:-]

One point in regards to the last bit of your quote, if we are capable of making our own decisions then why is it down to the EU to pass them?

Like why haven't our government made laws like this before or made any of the laws considered "well thought out" by the EU?

Well it all depends on what you think a good law is - some people think the smoking ban was a great piece of legislation (which the British Government passed) while others like me think it was a terrible piece of draconian legislation. Sadly in the western world at the moment, people like me (who don't want to control the lives of other people via the state) are losing the battle whether its law coming from Westminster or Brussels.

But the point is, at least the British parliament is accountable on the decisions it takes - unlike Barroso and his gang.

[Ardemax]

Well it all depends on what you think a good law is - some people think the smoking ban was a great piece of legislation (which the British Government passed) while others like me think it was a terrible piece of draconian legislation. Sadly in the western world at the moment, people like me (who don't want to control the lives of other people via the state) are losing the battle whether its law coming from Westminster or Brussels.

But the point is, at least the British parliament is accountable on the decisions it takes - unlike Barroso and his gang.

Iraq, anyone? :P

Out of curiosity, did you watch the Question Time with Russell Brand on it?

[-:Undertaker:-]

Iraq, anyone? :P

Oh yes, well no system is infalliable - but that's more a result of the political tribalism of the public.


Out of curiosity, did you watch the Question Time with Russell Brand on it?

Afraid not, cannot stand the man. I only ever watch Question Time nowadays whenever Peter Hitchens, Nigel Farage, Douglas Murray or Melanie Phillips are on - and I literally used to watch every episode, not anymore - often the audience and panel are so detatched from reality. :P

[Ardemax]

Oh yes, well no system is infalliable - but that's more a result of the political tribalism of the public.



Afraid not, cannot stand the man. I only ever watch Question Time nowadays whenever Peter Hitchens, Nigel Farage, Douglas Murray or Melanie Phillips are on - and I literally used to watch every episode, not anymore - often the audience and panel are so detatched from reality. :P

Melanie Philips was on the panel on the same episode surprisingly. She got absolutely mauled by the panel and audience when she talked about Iran being like the biggest threat.

I'm not sure what I think of her.

[Chippiewill]

Is that the one where she suggested we should invade Iran and that they're beyond negotiating because of their religion?

[Ardemax]

Is that the one where she suggested we should invade Iran and that they're beyond negotiating because of their religion?

Yes. I believe she used the term "neutralised". It was all rather funny.

[-:Undertaker:-]

Melanie Philips was on the panel on the same episode surprisingly. She got absolutely mauled by the panel and audience when she talked about Iran being like the biggest threat.

I'm not sure what I think of her.

Yeah I certainly don't agree with her on foreign policy. :P

I suppose I like her for her social conservatism in certain areas the most - but again, I even like it when Galloway is on a panel because at least he makes you think and actually says something rather than saying a lot but not saying anything really at all (like most politicians). I'd rather vote for a far-left socialist/communist like Galloway or Benn than a weak empty suit like Cameron or May.

Peter Hitchens I am probably influenced by on the same level as Ron Paul, Douglas Murray can be interesting for his neoconservative take on things (although he tends to be on Melanie Phillips' side in regards to foreign policy). But yeah. :)

[-:Undertaker:-]

Have you ever been to America? You get the kind of cultural differences the UK has within states. Different states are radically different.

I was looking at Enoch Powell quotes before and this quote reminded me of this discussion, pretty much echoes what I have said. Just thought you might find it interesting - i've always regarded Powell as my 'chief' when it comes to the question of sovereignty and he doesn't let down in the passage I have quoted below.


What happens then when majorities in the directly elected European Assembly take decisions, or approve policies, or vote budgets which are regarded by the British electorate or by the electorate of some of the mammoth constituencies as highly offensive and prejudicial to their interests? What do the European MPs say to their constituents? They say: “Don't blame me; I had no say, nor did I and my Labour (or Conservative) colleagues, have any say in the framing of these policies”. He will then either add: “Anyhow, I voted against”; or alternatively he will add: “And don't misunderstand if I voted for this along with my German, French, and Italian pals, because if I don't help roll their logs, I shall never get them to roll any of mine”. What these pseudo-MPs will not be able to say is what any MP in a democracy must be able to say, namely, either “I voted against this, and if the majority of my party are elected next time, we will put it right”, or alternatively, “I supported this because it is part of the policy and programme for which a majority in this constituency and in the country voted at the last election and which we shall be proud to defend at the next election”. Direct elections to the European Assembly, so far from introducing democracy and democratic control, will strengthen the arbitrary and bureaucratic nature of the Community by giving a fallacious garb of elective authority to the exercise of supranational powers by institutions and persons who are – in the literal, not the abusive, sense of the word – irresponsible.

Speech in Brighton (24 October 1977), from Enoch Powell on 1992 (Anaya, 1989), pp. 19-20.

What a mind. Probably the British politician out of all in history I regard the most highly.