Teenage hangs herself due to abuse on ASK.FM

[lemons]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2384866/Schoolgirl-14-suspected-suicide-told-drink-bleach-bullies-website-Ask-fm.html


A 14-year-old schoolgirl killed herself after being bullied by online trolls who told her to 'drink bleach' and 'go get cancer'.

Hannah Smith, from Lutterworth, Leicestershire, was found dead on Friday after being sent abusive messages on controversial website Ask.fm.

After a barrage of abuse Hannah posted the handwritten message: 'You think you want to die but in reality you just want to be saved' on the day before she died.

Her devastated parents posted the terrible news online and attacked the social media site for not doing more to tackle bullies and called for it to be banned.

Hannah's father Dave Smith wrote on Facebook: 'On Friday morning my daughter was found hanged last night i seen her ask fm account and someone had been telling her to die'.

The heartbroken father, who owns a cleaning services company, continued: 'My heart is broken in 2 and is gonna take along time to repair i just hope that none of you have to go through the pain im goin through rite now and love u all.

'Wats left after hannah took here own life.

'Me and jo sleep down stairs now - we dont have a bed time.

'We have to go for walks regular as we cant bear being in this empty house.'

It came as the debate over cyber-bullying continues to rage as several high-profile women, including MPs, have been threatened with rape and murder by trolls.

Ask fm user Chloe India posted on the website: 'R.I.P. Hannah Smith, she killed herself due to ask.fm and bullying. The haters need to realize.

'These situations need handling fast, too many people commit suicide because of the haters / cyber bully's on here and any other social networking sites'.

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2384866/Schoolgirl-14-suspected-suicide-told-drink-bleach-bullies-website-Ask-fm.html#ixzz0KqoBiO00
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Why hasn't this site been closed abuse is SO common on it?


edit: missed the 'r' on teenager :rolleyes:

[MKR&*42]

Ask.fm is the worst for bullying online. Inb4 some people comment and try to justify people saying such things because "you can just get rid of your account111!!" because that totally makes sense and is really fair where we should live in a world like that lol no.

It's a shame this has happened and it's becoming an epidemic (teenage suicides) because of people's pure ignorance to how harmful their comments can be -.-

R.I.P. to her so much :'(

[dbgtz]

No real evidence that it was because of ask.fm abuse and even if it was, I don't see why they should have to shut down.

[e5]

Absolutely tragic. I don't see why these sites exists when so many trolls are at large now. I don't see how anyone could find fun in telling someone to go die when this sort of things happens far too regularly now; they must be aware.

Sure, we have trolls on here, but they troll to a joke level and I'm sure they've never any intention of telling anyone to go and die or to kill themselves at any point.

I'm also saddened that this 14-year old wasn't made more aware of the fact that these trolls do exist on the internet and any abuse they do send should be ignored and reported, not even a reply should be sent because this entices them more into further abuse.

I really feel for their family and would never know what to do if this ever happened to anyone of my family members, let alone a daughter.

R.I.P. Hannah Smith

[lemons]

there is horrible questions on nearly every other ask.fm page i come across

[Shockwave.2CC]

Ask.fm needs to be banned. End of

[karter]

oh god, only 14.

rest in peace

[Yawn]

double click the thread title when ur back on the current affairs thread list to edit it :Innocent:

ppl that insult and attack other ppl over their appearance and other personal things r the worst and that is the lowest. im all for being abusive online but when it becomes personal and u bring their real life appearance into it and such then that is TOO FAR

[Jurv]

such a shame :( rest in peace

[Stephen]

she was really in **** creek to begin with emotion-wise
she's thought about killing herself over and over but the people who really matter.. she can't do such a thing and leave them to grieve like that

so she goes on this website called ask.fm the king of abuse the ultimate test to see whether you can convince yourself to finally kick the bucket

she stares at all the abuse 24/7 and it takes over her life

all she can think about is negativaty because all she knows is them ask.fm questions telling her to die and what not

that becomes her world.. her obsession

trapped on that website
mind forever spiralling into the depths of nothingness

*kicks the chair over*

goodbye world

I like to guess what drives people to do these things :Nerd:

[Catchy]

I think she must've been emotionally unstable to begin with. There must of been some underlying issues here and I don't think it can be blamed purely on ask.fm and internet trolls. Don't get me wrong it's horrible but why did she continue to use the site if she just got abuse? Doesn't make sense. Nobody was forcing her to endure the bullying and she could've easily just not used the internet to escape the bullying.

[GommeInc]

I always thought ask.fm was an online radio/streaming service like Spotify :S It seems a shame she never sought help.

[MKR&*42]

I always thought ask.fm was a online radio/streaming service like Spotify :S It seems a shame she never sought help.

last.fm that is :P

[GommeInc]

last.fm that is :P
Ah, might be :P I've heard of Ask.fm before but never bothered looking at it.

[myles]

i think that might have been me lol?

[Catchy]

i think that might have been me lol?

not being funny myles but there's a time and a place for jokes and you've just crossed that line. you're not funny and nobody else thinks you are so give up.

[iBlueBox]

Such a shame,
But at age 14, She must of known how the site works that people ask anonymous questions, and should of at least told her parent when the abuse started or simply not used the sight.

[myles]

not being funny myles but there's a time and a place for jokes and you've just crossed that line. you're not funny and nobody else thinks you are so give up.
WHAT
first of all i wasnt trying to be funny
second of all dont be jealous because u wasnt born with the gift

im really disappointed in u and u have ticked me right off

[Catchy]

WHAT
first of all i wasnt trying to be funny
second of all dont be jealous because u wasnt born with the gift

im really disappointed in u and u have ticked me right off

LMAO what are you on about. You was trying to be funny and it wasn't needed in a thread like this tbh. Plain disrespect.

[myles]

LMAO what are you on about. You was trying to be funny and it wasn't needed in a thread like this tbh. Plain disrespect.i dont see u making such a big fuss over the other percentage of people committing suicide in the world?????????

[Catchy]

i dont see u making such a big fuss over the other percentage of people committing suicide in the world?????????

Just because I'm not making a 'big fuss' doesn't mean I lack compassion which you evidently do. Face it, your comment wasn't needed in a thread like this. It was disrespectful, if you had nothing worthy to add to the thread then you shouldn't of posted at all. I know I'm not the only one who thinks this either but everyone else must just be too kind to say anything about it.

[myles]

Just because I'm not making a 'big fuss' doesn't mean I lack compassion which you evidently do. Face it, your comment wasn't needed in a thread like this. It was disrespectful, if you had nothing worthy to add to the thread then you shouldn't of posted at all. I know I'm not the only one who thinks this either but everyone else must just be too kind to say anything about it.
thank god they r too kind because they havent turned out lyk u

[Catchy]

thank god they r too kind because they havent turned out lyk u

Yeah you're boring me now lol. Keep trying really hard to be as funny as subo; I'm sure you'll get there in the end hun maybe you'll even get a gold star! xxx

[myles]

Yeah you're boring me now lol. Keep trying really hard to be as funny as subo; I'm sure you'll get there in the end hun maybe you'll even get a gold star! xxxare u being frickin serious......... i didnt know this was a competition sir catchy

[-:Undertaker:-]

As tragic as it is, the 'fault' is both with the girl herself and possibly her parents as they clearly didn't monitor their daughter correctly - then again, what can the parents really have done if she was determined to take her own life?

As nasty as insults can be, they don't cause suicide - only you can cause it. And that is why no blame can be placed on ask.fm just as no blame could be placed on Sulake if I topped myself tommorow because I lost a hundred russian samovars in a bet.

RIP, such a waste.

[Stephen]

WHAT
first of all i wasnt trying to be funny
second of all dont be jealous because u wasnt born with the gift

im really disappointed in u and u have ticked me right off

i thought u were funny
dont listen to them

[FlyingJesus]

Warden told me he wants my opinion on this. My opinion is that it is very sad

[MKR&*42]

Warden told me he wants my opinion on this. My opinion is that it is very sad

Amazing opinion x

[myles]

i thought u were funny
dont listen to them
thanks fan

[Red]

Aww :( so upsetting reading that article. Such a shame. Rip Hannah!! Ask.fm seems like a horrible site. My 14 yr old cousin and her friends all use and it and some of the abuse they get on their too is just ridic.

[myles]

ask fm is fun i get bullied all the time but i love the amount of ahte i get

[Stephen]

i get called cute and stuff

then someone said i had a little willy

[Daltron]

The only ask.fms I have seen are either super sexual or bullying central. I don't think they should be shutting the website down because of this, teenagers know what that site is about.

It's a shame this girl took her life though, maybe more education about how to avoid online bullying should be available idk. I usually don't have sympathy for people who are bullied on these sites because it's easy to close your account or avoid bad questions, but regardless RIP and hope you're in a better place.

[JerseySafety]

Once someone starts getting abused they should just delete their account, it's really that simple.

[Zak]

As sad as this is, all I can think about places around the world where life is so much worse. As many have said on this thread, no blame can go on ask.fm. You should expect abuse going on a site like that - don't like it? Then don't login? Delete your account?

I don't think this has anything to do with ask.fm but if it is down to that what a stupid thing to end your life over.

[Chug!]

It's really really sad. She looked really beautiful, and I'm sure she had a lot going for her!
It's tragic that people feel that they have to take their life because of horrible trolls like this!

RIP x

[Gibs960]

I honestly don't see the appeal of ask.fm, so you sign up to get questions from people you already know (80% of the time) who could just ask you in person. But by signing up, you must already know that people get abuse and that they're going to get some form of hate. But I've never agreed with people killing themselves over some text, I get abuse every day at school about being "gay", and that's face to face, but I don't kill myself over it. People that kill themselves are obviously already unstable (as in they have issues with confidence and depression and stuff) and then abuse on ask.fm or whatever is what tips them over the edge.

I believe people were saying "facebook should respond to bullying more seriously" a few years ago? But people soon realised that only a small minority of people were being abused and bullied on facebook. Honestly, people need to grow up and stop using it if they can't handle abuse.

EDIT: Just heard of Good Morning that she went on ask.fm to ask for tips about her eczema. What the ****?
"I have a problem with my self image, I better go on a website known for bullying to ask for tips." And people wonder why they get hate? I realise they shouldn't have to get hate but a quick google search about eczema would give her tips, but instead she went on a website where trolls can give anonymous hate!

[Stephen]

It's really really sad. She looked really beautiful, and I'm sure she had a lot going for her!
It's tragic that people feel that they have to take their life because of horrible trolls like this!

RIP x

are you saying that if she was ugly then it wouldnt matter that much

[Chug!]

are you saying that if she was ugly then it wouldnt matter that much

Nope! Not at all!

I didn't mean it in that way at all!

I was just saying. D:

It is tragic at whoever feels that this is their only option. Looks has nothing to do with it. It was just a comment.

[karter]

here's a round of applause for the people who blame a 14 year old girl for committing suicide :clap:

just kidding, go **** yourself

[MKR&*42]

totally forgot 14 year old kids have the same emotional capacity as the rest of us and can handle all of this stuff in lives and won't have it affect them at all. She was 14 so forgive her for going onto that site to try and get some help (most of my friends actually have recommended ask.fm and they're around 17 - you don't realise how bad it is for bullying till you try it out and even then you've already encountered some of it). PLEASE FORGIVE AS I FORGOT 14 YEAR OLDS AUTOMATICALLY KNOW ABOUT HOW TO HANDLE THESE SITUATIONS AND GET HELP I AM SORRY.

Loljk I rarely had any advice given in school citizenship/PSHE lessons about stuff like this - suicide / emotional issues / self harm etc. and it's failing students so badly because they end up not knowing what to do.

Jfc waiting for the day when someone on here who is attacking this girl, loses a member of their own family for similar reasons. Then let's see how ******* quick you are to point the finger on themselves.

[Matt]

RIP to her and I feel so sorry for her family. I hope the people who posted on her ask.fm realize what they've done and feel bloody terrible about it. Idiots.

[Adam]

I don't mean any disrespect but man up, jeez.

You're getting abuse? Leave.

If you get bad customer service time and time again from a certain shop, do you go back? Do you ****.

Eurgh, teenagers these days. Such a waste of life.

*incoming barrage of red rep for having an opinion different to the majority*

[buttons]

can always count on the same three people to come into suicide and mental health threads time and time again claiming those with suicidal thoughts are cowards, weak, idiots or any other variation. all you guys care about is getting your ignorant comments out there, not the fact that people are feeling **** enough to kill themselves. dunno why u all feel the need to do so when it's going to make people feel worse, not any better? what are u hoping to achieve with such comments? all you're doing is showing you think suicidal people are stupid,not hoping the problem, which is with the bullies and not the victim, ceases.

problem with ask.fm is absolutely anyone can post on it, ive had horrible comments but i know they're from people in different countries who don't even know me. maybe this was the case for her but she thought it was people from school who really hated her. I'd say its especially hard for a 14 year old as at that point you want to fit in, you want to be liked and you don't understand until you're older (and in this case, when it's too late) that you don't have to be popular and liked. wasn't until i was 19 that i realised no-one elses opinion should matter to me but whilst you're at school, it does. so whilst i agree that you should ignore abuse, you don't do that at 14 year old and it really crushes your self-esteem. whilst you may not commit suicide at that point, it can haunt you for the rest of your days until you do something about it.

anywY that's all ill say so u can quote me all u like i don't care. think one reason i wouldn't kill myself is because once you're gone, there are still horrible trolls saying you deserve it and you're a coward + i think that's just unnecessary extra damage towards the family. (Inb4 killing yourself is unnecessary damage, i said EXTRA)

[-:Undertaker:-]

Loljk I rarely had any advice given in school citizenship/PSHE lessons about stuff like this - suicide / emotional issues / self harm etc. and it's failing students so badly because they end up not knowing what to do.

Since when did we decide that state-run schools are now there to provide social services rather than to educate?

The last time I checked, schools are there to educate about maths, geography, the sciences, history and so on rather than allowing dodgy doctors into the school to prescribe hormonal children a series of quack science pills etc.


can always count on the same three people to come into suicide and mental health threads time and time again claiming those with suicidal thoughts are cowards, weak, idiots or any other variation.

I don't recall reading anybody saying any of that, only you have suggested such.

All I have read in this thread is the simple logic coming from many of us that, whilst she was a vunerable child, ultimately there isn't much you can do for somebody who seems determined to have nasty comments throw at her - probably in a desperate cry out for attention - by going on the internet. The only people who can and who should stop such a thing are either the girl herself, and if she's not in the right frame of mind, then the father and mother.... but even then there is only so much you can do.

Somebody who seemingly wants attention (which will involve insults/nasty comments).. what much can you do to help them? especially when it's on the internet which means that it's likely the family had no knowledge of any of this.

It doesn't mean we're being heartless or nasty towards the girl, just simply taking a step back from the emotional argument and questioning why the blame should be put at the foot of a website/users of a website when the use of ask.fm is not a need or a 'human right' for anybody - therefore the question ought to be asked as to why she continued to use it and post very personal information when she was clearly trumatised by it. Now I think that's a rational question to be asked.

[Catchy]

Since when did we decide that state-run schools are now there to provide social services rather than to educate?

The last time I checked, schools are there to educate about maths, geography, the sciences, history and so on rather than allowing dodgy doctors into the school to prescribe hormonal children a series of quack science pills etc.


You say some ridiculous things but this has to be one of the worst you've come up with in a long time. You've really outdone yourself lmao! Schools have a duty of care and responsibility to their students. If a student is suffering at home then the school has every right to get social services involved and I'm pretty sure it's more or less protocol that they have to? Dodgy doctors? Lol what on earth... I'm not even going to comment on that, I'm pretty sure a medical professional with 7 years training and years of clinical experience behind them knows what they're talking about.

[Adam]

can always count on the same three people to come into suicide and mental health threads time and time again claiming those with suicidal thoughts are cowards, weak, idiots or any other variation. all you guys care about is getting your ignorant comments out there, not the fact that people are feeling **** enough to kill themselves. dunno why u all feel the need to do so when it's going to make people feel worse, not any better? what are u hoping to achieve with such comments? all you're doing is showing you think suicidal people are stupid,not hoping the problem, which is with the bullies and not the victim, ceases.

problem with ask.fm is absolutely anyone can post on it, ive had horrible comments but i know they're from people in different countries who don't even know me. maybe this was the case for her but she thought it was people from school who really hated her. I'd say its especially hard for a 14 year old as at that point you want to fit in, you want to be liked and you don't understand until you're older (and in this case, when it's too late) that you don't have to be popular and liked. wasn't until i was 19 that i realised no-one elses opinion should matter to me but whilst you're at school, it does. so whilst i agree that you should ignore abuse, you don't do that at 14 year old and it really crushes your self-esteem. whilst you may not commit suicide at that point, it can haunt you for the rest of your days until you do something about it.

anywY that's all ill say so u can quote me all u like i don't care. think one reason i wouldn't kill myself is because once you're gone, there are still horrible trolls saying you deserve it and you're a coward + i think that's just unnecessary extra damage towards the family. (Inb4 killing yourself is unnecessary damage, i said EXTRA)
can always count on the moral highgrounders coming in and saying what everybody else has said a thousand times to get another ring on their halo. same thing jen, doesn't mean we're ignorant.

[Yawn]

i dont think she even killed herself cos of the ask fm abuse. every1 who uses ask fm has those type of comments i think its just a coincidence that a girl that killed herself had kill urself comments on her profile.

[buttons]

Since when did we decide that state-run schools are now there to provide social services rather than to educate?

The last time I checked, schools are there to educate about maths, geography, the sciences, history and so on rather than allowing dodgy doctors into the school to prescribe hormonal children a series of quack science pills etc.



I don't recall reading anybody saying any of that, only you have suggested such.

All I have read in this thread is the simple logic coming from many of us that, whilst she was a vunerable child, ultimately there isn't much you can do for somebody who seems determined to have nasty comments throw at her - probably in a desperate cry out for attention - by going on the internet. The only people who can and who should stop such a thing are either the girl herself, and if she's not in the right frame of mind, then the father and mother.... but even then there is only so much you can do.

Somebody who seemingly wants attention (which will involve insults/nasty comments).. what much can you do to help them? especially when it's on the internet which means that it's likely the family had no knowledge of any of this.

It doesn't mean we're being heartless or nasty towards the girl, just simply taking a step back from the emotional argument and questioning why the blame should be put at the foot of a website/users of a website when the use of ask.fm is not a need or a 'human right' for anybody - therefore the question ought to be asked as to why she continued to use it and post very personal information when she was clearly trumatised by it. Now I think that's a rational question to be asked.
i agree w/ jake your comments about schools only for education is ridiculous. education isnt just about skills, you can educate a child on life. schools are supposed to be a secondary education, they take you for about 7 hours a day so they have responsibility for looking after your children and that includes any bullying they may suffer. at least if schools are teaching morals then these suicides would happen less.

youre asking the wrong questions. the questions should be; why are kids throwing abuse to each other and telling them to kill themselves? why is nothing being done to stop this? i see people say kill yourself all over twitter & no-one bats an eyelid. yes, someone saying that to me wouldn't make me actually do it but im honestly so ******* shocked that someone could say that to another person. all we do is blame the victim for not ignoring it when it shouldn't be done in the first place. instead of blaming the victims parents, why not blame the parents of the vile children spouting such hate? what u can do to help is get police involved, try find out the people doing it WHILST keeping the child off the site, not just taking the child off. even if one child getting abuse stops going onto the site, then the bullies can simply jump to the next, so shouldn't they be the ones dealt with rather than the victims? :S

[Red]

You say some ridiculous things but this has to be one of the worst you've come up with in a long time. You've really outdone yourself lmao! Schools have a duty of care and responsibility to their students. If a student is suffering at home then the school has every right to get social services involved and I'm pretty sure it's more or less protocol that they have to? Dodgy doctors? Lol what on earth... I'm not even going to comment on that, I'm pretty sure a medical professional with 7 years training and years of clinical experience behind them knows what they're talking about.

agreed! All schools should provide good pastoral care for their students. Some people on this forum :rolleyes:

[MKR&*42]

W.h.a.t. Ok I get the main priority of school is to educate on geography, maths, science and so on. But to outright deny students teaching about important issues in life is silly (in a subject which doesn't give you a grade can I just add before you start claiming "it'll lead to more nonsense grades in nonsense subjects") - many kids experience bullying/emotional problems and further go on to self-harm and suffer from various mental illnesses, and not being able to seek help for that in a school (where you spend 7 hours a day there...) is just ludicrous. I actually dread to think what school would be like without that kind of advice and education at all - there'd probably be a lot more ignorant people (like in this thread) turning a blind eye to the issues leading up to suicide and so on.

And pretty much everything Catchy said.

[Catchy]

agreed! All schools should provide good pastoral care for their students. Some people on this forum :rolleyes:

Honestly, it's like he has been living under a rock... Since when didn't schools offer counselling services and what not? As far as I'm aware pretty much all schools do. It's not to say they're not teaching them, if a child were to have a difficult home situation that is going to impact on their education and learning. That doesn't take a genius to work out, therefore these support services that the school has in place are there for a good reason. I am sick and tired of hearing -:Undertaker:-; bang on about the bloody state to be quite frank. "The state this, the state that" give it a rest.

[Yawn]

this is getting goooooooooood :clap:

Edited by Matts (Forum Super Moderator): Please don't post off-topic!

[-:Undertaker:-]

You say some ridiculous things but this has to be one of the worst you've come up with in a long time. You've really outdone yourself lmao!

In future then, call me out on it and make me look a fool. Anytime dear.


Schools have a duty of care and responsibility to their students. If a student is suffering at home then the school has every right to get social services involved and I'm pretty sure it's more or less protocol that they have to? Dodgy doctors? Lol what on earth... I'm not even going to comment on that, I'm pretty sure a medical professional with 7 years training and years of clinical experience behind them knows what they're talking about.

So you clearly haven't understood what I said have you? sigh. What I mean is, the way schools are going now is that they are basically turning into de facto social services in school time which should be taken up by normal subjects rather than the useful subject time being taken up be quack doctors, school 'special needs' staff coming in every day and so on.

If social services genuinely need to be involved, then call them in - but do not dumb down school education even more by forcing ever more boring (and useless) 'citizenship' or PSCHE lessons on everybody else. In the case of this girl, we assume all of this social service was provided by the school do we not? (you say yourself below that most schools now offer this) - whereas i'm making the case that that would be unlikely to help and probably didn't help as she seemed pretty determined to upset herself by logging on the internet where she was being abused.

So assuming her school did provide social services etc, what more do you want done? tell me, i'd like to know.


i agree w/ jake your comments about schools only for education is ridiculous. education isnt just about skills, you can educate a child on life. schools are supposed to be a secondary education, they take you for about 7 hours a day so they have responsibility for looking after your children and that includes any bullying they may suffer. at least if schools are teaching morals then these suicides would happen less.

How can you educate somebody on life, which is an experience not a subject, in a classroom? do you know how absurd that sounds?


youre asking the wrong questions. the questions should be; why are kids throwing abuse to each other and telling them to kill themselves? why is nothing being done to stop this? i see people say kill yourself all over twitter & no-one bats an eyelid. yes, someone saying that to me wouldn't make me actually do it but im honestly so ******* shocked that someone could say that to another person.

Free speech - the meaning of which is, the right to say controversial, nasty or offensive things.

It's people like you and your emotional logic which ends up in draconian law being brought in after each tragedy like this whereby you can now be arrested in this country for calling a police horse 'gay' - incase it offends a homosexual. To prevent that from happening, i'll stand up for free speech everytime - no matter how horrid or appalling the speech is.


all we do is blame the victim for not ignoring it when it shouldn't be done in the first place. instead of blaming the victims parents, why not blame the parents of the vile children spouting such hate? what u can do to help is get police involved, try find out the people doing it WHILST keeping the child off the site, not just taking the child off. even if one child getting abuse stops going onto the site, then the bullies can simply jump to the next, so shouldn't they be the ones dealt with rather than the victims? :S

Not really no. Again, I return to the free speech point - and the same applies when Tom Daley was being insulted on Twitter. The right to not be insulted or offended does not exist, and should not exist. Now if it's outright threats then that's another story, but instructing somebody to do something that they do not have to do? No matter how you twist it, she didn't have to follow the instructions to kill herself nor did she have to use ask.fm nor did she have to continue to post her personal information whilst she was being insulted.


Honestly, it's like he has been living under a rock... Since when didn't schools offer counselling services and what not? As far as I'm aware pretty much all schools do. It's not to say they're not teaching them, if a child were to have a difficult home situation that is going to impact on their education and learning. That doesn't take a genius to work out, therefore these support services that the school has in place are there for a good reason. I am sick and tired of hearing -:Undertaker:-; bang on about the bloody state to be quite frank. "The state this, the state that" give it a rest.

I apologise for being specific. In future i'll make sure i'm more vague and won't read properly what people have written - like you.

[lemons]

jesus

[-:Undertaker:-]

Should add this as summary really - look, my basic point is that when tragedys like this happen people always jump to emotional conclusions and call for bans, more funding for this and that etc - and often it completely misses the point/results in unintended consquences.

All i'm saying is that a rational approach should be taken to these things with everything in mind, rather than being emotionally driven by this one event.

[Cupids]

heard about thats this morning, horrible

[Catchy]

-:Undertaker:-; You seemed to be very anti pastoral care. Your first post wasn't specific, it was vague. I hardly think educating children on issues which are talked about in citizenship classes aren't doing any harm. I mean really? I'm sure most of us here had to do it and did that harm our education? No. If children aren't being educated about these things who else is going to educate them so that they're able to make informed decisions later in life? Some parents aren't as open as other parents or some children simply can't talk to their parents so these classes are pretty valuable for a kids development in my opinion.

Your comment to buttons; is ridiculous. How can you educate someone on life? Ever heard of a life coach? In all seriousness though, you can share experiences with them, teach them about the risks and dangers of certain aspects of life and provide them with facts which aren't myths. Do you know the amount of people in my class who believed that if you drink coke before having sex you can't get pregnant? Or something ridiculous like that anyway. Lol, just one example. Your whole free speech argument doesn't even exist and you're an idiot if you believe it does.

[-:Undertaker:-]

-:Undertaker:-; You seemed to be very anti pastoral care. Your first post wasn't specific, it was vague. I hardly think educating children on issues which are talked about in citizenship classes aren't doing any harm. I mean really? I'm sure most of us here had to do it and did that harm our education? No. If children aren't being educated about these things who else is going to educate them so that they're able to make informed decisions later in life? Some parents aren't as open as other parents or some children simply can't talk to their parents so these classes are pretty valuable for a kids development in my opinion.

Well i'll just give one example with sex education lessons. At one point it was decided, in order to lower the low numbers of teenage pregnancies, STDs and abortions - that sex education lessons would allow pupils to grasp sex properly and thus the numbers would decrease. It seemed a sensible idea, except that the numbers of all three of those have increased massively since ex education was brought in which suggests a correlation between the two. That's an example of a seemingly good idea but which backfired with unintended consquences.

In this regard, I return to the point you made that most schools now have these services in place - so my question to you was, and still is, assuming this girls school had these services in place - what more can you possibly do that would have saved her? you are seemingly calling for more to be done, but i'm not sure you yourself even know what more can possibly be done.


all seriousness though, you can share experiences with them, teach them about the risks and dangers of certain aspects of life and provide them with facts which aren't myths. Do you know the amount of people in my class who believed that if you drink coke before having sex you can't get pregnant? Or something ridiculous like that anyway. Lol, just one example.

I send you back to the sex education example and look forward to your response to that.


Your whole free speech argument doesn't even exist and you're an idiot if you believe it does.

Is it that you don't understand it or actually disagree with it? if you disagree with it, i'd like to know exactly what you disagree with.

[FlyingJesus]

I didn't want to get involved in this but it absolutely is possible to educate people on "life", and if that wasn't the case then empathy couldn't exist because no-one would be able to understand anything they haven't personally been through. I don't think bans on certain sites (or types of sites) will solve anything, but neither will saying WELL DON'T LOOK AT IT!!!! or pretending that verbal/textual abuse isn't abuse.

[-:Undertaker:-]

I didn't want to get involved in this but it absolutely is possible to educate people on "life", and if that wasn't the case then empathy couldn't exist because no-one would be able to understand anything they haven't personally been through. I don't think bans on certain sites (or types of sites) will solve anything, but neither will saying WELL DON'T LOOK AT IT!!!! or pretending that verbal/textual abuse isn't abuse.

What I mean by the education bit is that whenever something like this happens, there are always calls for 'we need more educashun' or 'we need to ban X, Y and X' - all i'm saying is that there is only so much you can do on both a financial level and a school timetable level.

I personally think the best life experiences come from stories you hear from other people rather than lectures in the assembly hall - I have learnt a lot from talking personally with teachers about a whole manner of out-of-school things. I'm all for teachers talking about completely random things in class with pupils - probably the best form of education there is. Mercer always did it. :P

[FlyingJesus]

Also with regards to teen pregnancies and such, the places with the monstrously huge levels of occurrence compared to anywhere else are actually the places where abstinence-only is preached and no-one is actually taught the facts, so while rates may have increased (because obviously whatever you teach people you can't force them to take on board in any subject) they are dramatically lower than in areas without proper "training"

[Empired]

-:Undertaker:-; I think you'll make a fantastic politician. You seem to have forgotten that we're talking about a child here. A real, human child. I totally don't understand how you seem to think that it was her fault (I'm not bringing parents into this) that she ended up dead. Have you never heard of the concept of cause and effect? The cause was the comments she got, the effect was her killing herself. From what I can see, you've totally ignored the "cause" part and decided that there must only be an effect. You know there has to be a cause for there to be an effect right?

Anyway, like I said. You'll make a fantastic politician. Ignoring all emotion and feeling and just shouting the same bloody argument over and over again, just phrasing it differently to make it look like you're saying different things.

[-:Undertaker:-]

Also with regards to teen pregnancies and such, the places with the monstrously huge levels of occurrence compared to anywhere else are actually the places where abstinence-only is preached and no-one is actually taught the facts, so while rates may have increased (because obviously whatever you teach people you can't force them to take on board in any subject) they are dramatically lower than in areas without proper "training"

That doesn't add up with rates pre-1960s to rates post-1960s of STDs, abortions and pregnancies.


@-:Undertaker:-; I think you'll make a fantastic politician. You seem to have forgotten that we're talking about a child here. A real, human child. I totally don't understand how you seem to think that it was her fault (I'm not bringing parents into this) that she ended up dead. Have you never heard of the concept of cause and effect? The cause was the comments she got, the effect was her killing herself. From what I can see, you've totally ignored the "cause" part and decided that there must only be an effect. You know there has to be a cause for there to be an effect right?

Anyway, like I said. You'll make a fantastic politician. Ignoring all emotion and feeling and just shouting the same bloody argument over and over again, just phrasing it differently to make it look like you're saying different things.

I could give an emotional argument for banning cars or restricting offensive words towards homosexuals. But I won't because that's an emotional argument and doesn't have any logic to it. Take the Iraq war for instance - I oppose it on the grounds of logical and rational debate, not on sob stories (as sad as they may be).

[Zak]

First off - I totally respect -:Undertaker:-; 's point of view. The guy speaks a lot of sense.

Lets face it, if she did commit suicide over comments on ask.fm then that's pathetic. Growing up from a hard(ish) background myself where your dad is an alcoholic. You were beaten as a child. Your parents split up numerous times. Plus having two well-documented mental conditions, not to mention the stress and pressure that I'm probably putting on myself doing what I do.

I mean c'mon. I'm sure there are many kids out there who are much worse off then me but whats the point in being that down about it? I think I can speak first hand about **** lives and has it affected me? Yes, mentally. But I overcame the rest.. It's called manning the **** up.

As I said in my last comment .. It could have been a LOT worse for majority of these people. I recently watched a documentary about the holocaust and this 90 year old woman was talking of her experiences in death labour camps.. whilst being pregnant. Her whole family was either gassed or starved to death. Worked to death, crammed on a train for 3 weeks with no food or water during the final solution and having a baby on a trek to another death camp after the 3 week train journey. Did she commit? No. Now tell me their lives are that bad.....

I'm not trying to be harsh, it is a shame but why do it in the first place especially after something so trivial?

[Catchy]

Well i'll just give one example with sex education lessons. At one point it was decided, in order to lower the low numbers of teenage pregnancies, STDs and abortions - that sex education lessons would allow pupils to grasp sex properly and thus the numbers would decrease. It seemed a sensible idea, except that the numbers of all three of those have increased massively since ex education was brought in which suggests a correlation between the two. That's an example of a seemingly good idea but which backfired with unintended consquences.

In this regard, I return to the point you made that most schools now have these services in place - so my question to you was, and still is, assuming this girls school had these services in place - what more can you possibly do that would have saved her? you are seemingly calling for more to be done, but i'm not sure you yourself even know what more can possibly be done.



I send you back to the sex education example and look forward to your response to that.



Is it that you don't understand it or actually disagree with it? if you disagree with it, i'd like to know exactly what you disagree with.

Teenage pregnancy is currently at it's lowest since 1969 so something must be working (whole different debate all together though). I don't know where the girl comes into this because not once have I mentioned her or even used her as an example in any of my replies to you. We're not talking about my views on 'freedom of speech' as like I said, it's clearly none existent seeing as Ruth Patterson has just been arrested for saying comments which a lot of people most probably agree with anyway... Is this free speech? No lol.

[-:Undertaker:-]

Teenage pregnancy is currently at it's lowest since 1969 so something must be working (whole different debate all together though). I don't know where the girl comes into this because not once have I mentioned her or even used her as an example in any of my replies to you. We're not talking about my views on 'freedom of speech' as like I said, it's clearly none existent seeing as Ruth Patterson has just been arrested for saying comments which a lot of people most probably agree with anyway... Is this free speech? No lol.

Only because of other factors including the widespread use of pills, condoms and abortion. The fact remains that carefree sex amongst young people has never been more widespread than before, and without pills/condoms and abortion the figures would be astronomical.

So sex education in its aim to reduce risky sex amongst young people has failed, because we now have more of it than ever before.

[Empired]

That doesn't add up with rates pre-1960s to rates post-1960s of STDs, abortions and pregnancies.



I could give an emotional argument for banning cars or restricting offensive words towards homosexuals. But I won't because that's an emotional argument and doesn't have any logic to it. Take the Iraq war for instance - I oppose it on the grounds of logical and rational debate, not on sob stories (as sad as they may be).
Jesus ******* Christ! Here we go.. I literally just said you bring out the same argument again and again and here you are talking about wars and gay people and cars AGAIN.

I agree with Zak; that you speak a lot of sense but you really need to apply your "taking a step back" method to some actual emotion for a change. I totally agree that, yes, you can't use an emotional argument for cars. But are you actually attempting to tell me that cars and fourteen year old girls are the same thing? In case you hadn't noticed cars are actually inanimate objects and they can't think or feel :rolleyes: so we don't actually have any empathy for cars. The same cannot be said for real thinking, feeling humans.

[FlyingJesus]

I personally think the best life experiences come from stories you hear from other people rather than lectures in the assembly hall - I have learnt a lot from talking personally with teachers about a whole manner of out-of-school things. I'm all for teachers talking about completely random things in class with pupils - probably the best form of education there is. Mercer always did it. :P

Then you agree that better education methods for these things is necessary after all, if that's not how the average school does it :P


That doesn't add up with rates pre-1960s to rates post-1960s of STDs, abortions and pregnancies.

Abortions and STD testing have become hugely more available since those times which partially explains why figures would be up, but regardless it's absolutely nothing compared to the difference between sex-ed areas and abstinence-only areas, and that difference is current so there are far less factors to take into account when comparing them. If growth rates of "problems" (not that pregnancy and abortion are always problems anyway) are slower in areas that have good education in the subjects than in areas that don't teach it at all then despite the overall figures being higher that is something of a success


Only because of other factors including the widespread use of pills, condoms and abortion. The fact remains that carefree sex amongst young people has never been more widespread than before, and without pills/condoms and abortion the figures would be astronomical.

So sex education in its aim to reduce risky sex amongst young people has failed, because we now have more of it than ever before.

This doesn't even make sense, if they're using proper protection more and more then it isn't risky sex, it's safe sex. Eating more meat with less BSE isn't bad

[Catchy]

Only because of other factors including the widespread use of pills, condoms and abortion. The fact remains that carefree sex amongst young people has never been more widespread than before, and without pills/condoms and abortion the figures would be astronomical.

So sex education in its aim to reduce risky sex amongst young people has failed, because we now have more of it than ever before.

It's always going to be a problem though no matter what. It always has been a problem however it's just been more of a taboo subject in the past. You say it's lowered because of the widespread use of condoms and then you jump onto saying that young people are reckless when it comes to unsafe sex. Don't contradict yourself.

[karter]

People who say that there are people who are experiencing much worse so you should "man up" have clearly no depth and clarity and provide absolutely nothing to a debate. Start acknowledging the subject being discussed, a suicide of a 14 year old girl..because everywhere we go, people will be experiencing much worse than us but that doesn't change or solve our own problems nor theirs. Shaming her and her parents at this time is very insensitive and personally I find it insulting because they have suffered a lot already, no one is asking you to blame anyone.

[Zak]

People who say that there are people who are experiencing much worse so you should "man up" have clearly no depth and clarity and provide absolutely nothing to a debate. Start acknowledging the subject being discussed, a suicide of a 14 year old girl..because everywhere we go, people will be experiencing much worse than us but that doesn't change or solve our own problems nor theirs. Shaming her and her parents at this time is very insensitive and personally I find it insulting because they have suffered a lot already, no one is asking you to blame anyone.

You mean me then :P

It's a tough world out there. :P

[Stephen]

too much text to read

undertaker

Edited by Dilustionate (Forum Moderator): Please do not pointless post, thank you!

[myles]

old news

Edited by Dilusionate (Forum Moderator): Please do not pointless post, thank you!

[myles]

but it is old news ???????? just sayin

[Gibs960]

The messages apparently came from her router or whatever

http://www.itv.com/news/story/2013-08-06/hannah-smith-lutterworth-cyber-bullying-ask-fm/

I don't know what to think now, I think her dad might have something to do with it just from his attitude and stuff and I don't understand why a girl would kill herself when 98% of the messages came from herself.

[Phil]

The messages apparently came from her router or whatever

http://www.itv.com/news/story/2013-08-06/hannah-smith-lutterworth-cyber-bullying-ask-fm/

I don't know what to think now, I think her dad might have something to do with it just from his attitude and stuff and I don't understand why a girl would kill herself when 98% of the messages came from herself.

Now this makes me think that it is something else entirely and she just used it as a cover up :/

[Sharon]

if only four ask.fms weren't her they most likely said hi or how are you

so if this is true that she sent herself hate she's drawn a bobba load of media attention and hate towards ask.fm. for no reason at all

although i do think there is still an underlying issue with ask.fm i do firmly believe that if you are sensitive and going to take meaningless ask.fm hate to heart just don't have an account or limit yourself

THEY BETTER NOT CLOSE ASK.FM. I HAVE THE USERNAME SHARON. actually lol all hxf users have their own name lol go us

[Onirela]

Ask.fm used to be an innocent site before it was well known.
I used to use it all the time and me and my bestfriend would ask eachother questions, also recieving a few from anonymous. They were only innocent and had no hate or no abuse.
Since ask.fm has gained more popularity, people have decided it's a base for abuse.
It need stronger moderation to preserve the friendly side of the site, not shutting down.

[lemons]

god i wonder what really happened then

[Chippiewill]

Sensationalist ******** from Daily Mail is so far removed from the truth there is zero point in looking into it.


except that the numbers of all three of those have increased massively since ex education was brought in which suggests a correlation between the two.
It doesn't suggest a correlation, it IS a correlation. What it does not suggest, imply or prove is causation - merely a causal link.

[haylashayla]

I understand she was 14, vulnerable and whatever, but she could of just delete her Ask.fm?
I find that with most cyberbullying. If they are 14 and able to think about suicide due to bullying, then they are grown up to realise the 'deactivate account' or not just go onto the computer??

If they were young and little, I understand. But with society, 14 year olds act as if they are 18. I mean, when I was 14, I got served for cigarettes and alcohol.

HOW HARD IS IT TO WALK AWAY FROM THE SCREEN?

[Absently]

What I've heard is that it wasn't the actual ask.fm official site that released the information that 98% was her, it was some other source so not too sure whether it's been proven or not yet. If this is true, it was obvious she was calling out for some sort of help and for someone to notice, it seems likely that she had some mental issues.

[dbgtz]

What I've heard is that it wasn't the actual ask.fm official site that released the information that 98% was her, it was some other source so not too sure whether it's been proven or not yet. If this is true, it was obvious she was calling out for some sort of help and for someone to notice, it seems likely that she had some mental issues.

Not necessarily her, but her IP which could mean anybody in her house could have done it.

[buttons]

imagine her dad was sendin it

[Absently]

Not necessarily her, but her IP which could mean anybody in her house could have done it.i'm only saying what the radio said!!!!!!!!


imagine her dad was sendin itthat's pretty sick and twisted if it was her dad.

[Aiden]

Don't want hate, don't sign up? :)

advice:
http://blog.bounceweb.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/07/shutdown.jpg

[Zak]

We all knew the media would blow it all out of proportion and try and blame these social sites. They do not yet have any control over the internet.. something that I'm sure is bound to change.

[MylesA.]

Sad that most people like this are unaware of how dangerous some of the things that they say can be towards others. Even on habbo I think people should be more cautious on the words they choose, because you don't know what that other person is going through despite how old they are. I don't think it's easy as just pressing the X button and logging out. Until you've walked a mile in that other person's shoes you'll know what they're going through.
I feel bad for her family. The saddest thing is that this kind of thing happens every day, especially to those that go unrecognized and unpunished. I think there should be more people overlooking these websites to make sure these things aren't happening, at the same time I think it's up to the parents' job to make sure that the websites their kids go on are safe.

[karter]

Don't want hate, don't sign up? :)

advice:
http://blog.bounceweb.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/07/shutdown.jpg

The advice is pretty much equivalent to 'ignore the bullies' Does it work though?

Enough of your stupid posts on these topics please

[Stephen]

plus hardly anyone uses xp anymore duh