Clegg calls on supermarkets to implement 5p plastic bag tax

[-:Undertaker:-]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/earth/environment/10309022/Clegg-calls-on-supermarkets-to-donate-new-plastic-bag-charge-to-charity.html

Clegg calls on supermarkets to donate new plastic bag charge to charity

Deputy Prime Minister Nick Clegg has unveiled plans for 5p charge on plastic bags in England and called on supermarkets to pass on the money raised to environmental charities.


http://i.telegraph.co.uk/multimedia/archive/02621/plastic-bag_2621141b.jpg
Nick Clegg will announce a 5p charge on plastic bags


Clegg confirmed that supermarkets will be able to decide whether or not to pass on the money raised by the mandatory charge to charities, raising the possibility they could keep the windfall.

Announcing the policy at the Liberal Democrat conference in Glasgow, he said he hoped firms would give the cash to good causes.

The charge is being introduced after the number of plastic bags used rose to seven billion a year – following a warning by ministers that if supermarkets failed to reduce the number used they would be forced to step in and take action.

The scheme, which will come into force in 2015 after the next general election, is already in use in Northern Ireland and Wales, which have both seen the number of single use bags fall. The government in Scotland has also announced they will introduce a 5p charge next year.

Clegg said: "Plastic carrier bags blight our towns and countryside. They take hundreds of years to degrade and can kill animals.

"This is not a new problem. We've waited too long for action. That's why I am drawing a line under the issue now. The charge will be implemented sensibly - small businesses will be exempt.

"We will discuss with retailers how the money raised should be spent but I call on them to follow the lead of industry in Wales and donate the proceeds to charity."

The charge will only apply to firms with more than 250 employees and the Government will also incentivise biodegradable bags by making them exempt from the levy.

A senior Government source said he was "extremely confident" that the money would be handed over to charities.

In Northern Ireland the levy has been so successful, reducing the number of bags by 80 per cent, they are doubling the charge to 10p. In Wales there has been a 76 per cent drop in plastic bag use since the charge was launched in 2011.

The Government’s Waste and Resources Action Programme found the number of bags used in England increased by almost 800 million over two years. No new legislation is needed to introduce the charge, as this is already covered by the Climate Change Act 2008.

Yet more meddling - and as for claims that plastic bags take 1,000 years to rot away: that claim itself is total and utter rot.

The irony here is that the organisation behind this campaign (the Daily Mail) to tax plastic bags is the very same newspaper that (rightly) constantly criticises the government on running the nanny state and meddling where it isn't needed ... yet here is the very same newspaper calling for a 5p tax to be brought in, by law, on private companies. That's sort of like the Guardian newspaper calling for controlled immigration or a flat rate of tax - it just doesn't add up.

Of course as usual with good sounding pieces of legislation, there will be unintended consquences - many of the supermarket bags people use are taken home and thus reused for many of things such as taking out the rubbish or using the bags to collect up dog waste - now with supermarket bags costing, it's likely that people are going to have to go out and buy large plastic bin bags and dog litter bags (if they bother).

Thoughts?

[FlyingJesus]

If they take 100s of years to degrade how come I had to hoover up the dusty remains of a few under my bed that had obliterated themselves after a couple of months :P also this doesn't make any sense as a "tax" - it goes to the company so only they benefit, which is fine if it's advised or optional but having a mandatory extra charge for shopping at a supermarket seems rather daft

[lemons]

i'm fine with it only 5p

they already do this in germany and if you keep your empty bottles then you get money back for them when you put them in a machine

[Red]

sounds good to doante it to charity. We already have the tax in like every shop so it was so weird seeing people say no to bags the first week or so lmao Used to it know though and when I go shopping I usually just stick one in my handbag.

[Jurv]

good idea, my family keep a load of plastic bags in our kitchen so hopefully when this is put into place it'll encourage us and other people to reuse the ones they already have or buy one of those other reuseable ones. it's horrible when you see them being thrown on the floor or just flying around somewhere

[MKR&*42]

So either way ill be paying for s bag at a supermarket?... I reuse all my current bags for a trashcan in my room and I dont usually plan when I'm going to end up shopping.

Silly law in so many ways and I can't believe its mandatory.

[Sian]

they do it in the channel islands, works a treat. People use too many of them, and that tax would make far more sense than the spare bedroom tax...

[Ardemax]

It's been in Wales for a while now and it has done absolute wonders. The purchase of plastic bags is down something like 80% I think?

EDIT: turns out I just skipped over the last bit, yeah 76%. Pretty good statistic that.

[-:Undertaker:-]

Why do you all require the government to force you to reuse your shopping bags?

[Red]

Why do you all require the government to force you to reuse your shopping bags?

They aren't biodegradeable so surely reducing the amount can only be a good thing. I always used to take bags when I had no need for them and being charged means you take one only when you really need it.

[-:Undertaker:-]

They aren't biodegradeable so surely reducing the amount can only be a good thing. I always used to take bags when I had no need for them and being charged means you take one only when you really need it.

Don't think you get my point.

If it's really a good thing and you agree with using less bags, then nothing was stopping you from reusing your older bags in the first place. So my question is, why should somebody step inbetween me and a private company and say "nono you MUST be charged for that bag" when I actually quite like the fact I get free shopping bags after i've spent quite a few quid on my shopping?

Also, they do rot - when was the last time you saw a 1980s Sainburys bag or a 1999 M&S Christmas bag blowing around?

[Yawn]

its gd and it works fear not undertaker

i dont get they r w8n til 2015 tho

[-:Undertaker:-]

its gd and it works fear not undertaker

i dont get they r w8n til 2015 tho

It may 'work' but it'll likely have unintended consquences (as these things do) that I explained in my first post.

[Red]

Don't think you get my point.

If it's really a good thing and you agree with using less bags, then nothing was stopping you from reusing your older bags in the first place. So my question is, why should somebody step inbetween me and a private company and say "nono you MUST be charged for that bag" when I actually quite like the fact I get free shopping bags after i've spent quite a few quid on my shopping?

Also, they do rot - when was the last time you saw a 1980s Sainburys bag or a 1999 M&S Christmas bag blowing around?

Well like I said. I found it quite annoying that there was a charge at first and despite knowing they were bad for the environment and that we should reduce waste, I would of taken bags for small items that I didn't need. I'm sure majority of people are the same. Everyone would like to get free bags but if this works in making people take them only when they need them then its a good thing.

[Yawn]

It may 'work' but it'll likely have unintended consquences (as these things do) that I explained in my first post.ppl will probs buy bags for rubbish bins and wat not but it will still reduce our carrier bag usage and that is gd

i work in a supermarket and ppl r flippin stupid and use excessive carrier bags for no apparent reason! like kirst said just for 1 small item its completely pointless and wasteful. ppl dont need ALL the bags they use for their grocery shopping

[-:Undertaker:-]

Well like I said. I found it quite annoying that there was a charge at first and despite knowing they were bad for the environment and that we should reduce waste, I would of taken bags for small items that I didn't need. I'm sure majority of people are the same. Everyone would like to get free bags but if this works in making people take them only when they need them then its a good thing.

Well maybe the government should start doing other things too to clean up the environment like banning chewing gum (as Singapore have done), making all clubs in town close earlier to prevent the heaps of rubbish that appear in the streets and should ban or heavily regulate what dogs you can own because of the dog mess?

I mean you'll have less freedoms and choice but it's good for the environment, yeah?


ppl will probs buy bags for rubbish bins and wat not but it will still reduce our carrier bag usage and that is gd

Why is it good to reduce carrier bag usage? personally I think it's a good thing that families can keep a supply of plastic carrier bags so that when they go out they can dispose of their rubbish easily in a nearby bin in a quick (and free) manner?


i work in a supermarket and ppl r flippin stupid and use excessive carrier bags for no apparent reason! like kirst said just for 1 small item its completely pointless and wasteful. ppl dont need ALL the bags they use for their grocery shopping

Since when did it become your remit or that of the government to decide my shopping bag habits? I thought the government was there to provide basic services like defence. But you know, maybe the government ought to start getting involved in peoples bedrooms more then to clamp down on teenage pregnancies and STDs, or even the internet too because of fraud and online bullying?

I mean if it's creating a better world then it must be good, right? I mean you'll lose some of your freedoms but heyyy who cares about that?

[Red]

Well maybe the government should start doing other things too to clean up the environment like banning chewing gum (as Singapore have done), making all clubs in town close earlier to prevent the heaps of rubbish that appear in the streets and should ban or heavily regulate what dogs you can own because of the dog mess?

I mean you'll have less freedoms and choice but it's good for the environment, yeah?

They might not have those suggestions but other things in place. Eg Fines if you throw down rubbish/gum/cigarette butts/don't pick up dog crap. Most clubs close here early anyway and I don't know what its like where you live but here the streets are cleaned and there isn't rubbish lying on the ground... all dogs poo so how exactly are they gonna regulate that.

[-:Undertaker:-]

They might not have those suggestions but other things in place. Eg Fines if you throw down rubbish/gum/cigarette butts/don't pick up dog crap.

Well why not go one better as it clearly isn't making much of a difference now with the amount of gum stuck to the floor and cigarette buds laying around and just ban them outright as Singapore did with chewing gum? Again, you may enjoy chewing gum but it's for the environment so maybe we ought to look into a ban on it.

And maybe even look into a ban on sweet wrappers which are small (chewit wrappers for example) as they are often dropped too.

The same with small sized bottles and cans in shops, maybe a blanket ban on those products and only sell large bottles of cola etc so that people are forced to fill a reuseable bottle before they leave the house .... afterall, most of the rubbish you see laying around is cans and bottles and not plastic shopping bags.


Most clubs close here early anyway and I don't know what its like where you live but here the streets are cleaned and there isn't rubbish lying on the ground...

Well I must say you ought to see city center streets at 4am in the morning. I've never seen anything like it.


all dogs poo so how exactly are they gonna regulate that.

Ban dogs on public streets. I mean you don't really needddddddd a dog and sure although you may want to buy one off somebody because you like dogs, for the greater good it surely makes sense to ban them or restrict their movement so that our streets are clean?

[Yawn]

YES ITS GR8 FOR THE ENVIRONMENT

peeps can still dispose of their rubbish in carrier bags they just have to pay 5p for them or buy a packet from the supermarket! it is gr8 deterrent. it isnt necessary that ppl r entitled to free carrier bags when its at the expense of the planets environment undertaker!

[-:Undertaker:-]

YES ITS GR8 FOR THE ENVIRONMENT

peeps can still dispose of their rubbish in carrier bags they just have to pay 5p for them or buy a packet from the supermarket! it is gr8 deterrent. it isnt necessary that ppl r entitled to free carrier bags when its at the expense of the planets environment undertaker!

So you'll agree with me on the banning of chewing gum and small bottles/cans too?

[Red]

I know you are playing devils advocate but can at least try and not make suggestions that are so bloody moronic. Hardly feasible for people to keep their dog's locked inside and some people do NEED dogs. I wouldn't say my area has a major problem with litter/chewing gum being dropped. If you see your city centre littered at 4am surely that is cleaned up by the council? Aluminum cans and plastic bottles can be recycled. Plastic bags take what 1000 years to decompose?

[Yawn]

So you'll agree with me on the banning of chewing gum and small bottles/cans too?

that quite a big difference to charging a measly 5p for a carrier bag undertaker!

i think that helping the environment by making ppl think twice about taking more plastic carrier bags than they need and donating all money made through these carrier bag sales to charity is far more beneficial than having a few free carrier bags to pick up after ur dog tbh!

[-:Undertaker:-]

I know you are playing devils advocate but can at least try and not make suggestions that are so bloody moronic. Hardly feasible for people to keep their dog's locked inside and some people do NEED dogs.

Not talking about people who need dogs, talking about people who just happen to like having a dog. I personally aren't a fan of dogs and it wouldn't bother me in the slightest if they were banned/their movements restricted, infact it'd probably benefit me in that I wouldn't have to look out for dog **** all over the pavements round where I live.

But would I back a ban or restrictions? no. Why? because I don't believe in punishing the majority for the sins of a minority just as I never used to agree with the teacher holding back the entire class just because one idiot acted up like a clown in class.

Catch my drift?


I wouldn't say my area has a major problem with litter/chewing gum being dropped. If you see your city centre littered at 4am surely that is cleaned up by the council? Aluminum cans and plastic bottles can be recycled.

If your area doesn't have a problem with litter then why are you wanting to ban plastic bags?

Everytime I propose banning something similar you come back with the retort of 'well my area doesnt have that problem' - in which case, why ban bags then?


Plastic bags take what 1000 years to decompose?

Again, when was the last time you saw a plastic bag from the 1980s whizzing past you?


that quite a big difference to charging a measly 5p for a carrier bag undertaker!

i think that helping the environment by making ppl think twice about taking more plastic carrier bags than they need and donating all money made through these carrier bag sales to charity is far more beneficial than having a few free carrier bags to pick up after ur dog tbh!

Ohhhhhhhhh so in other words it isn't about the environment which you pretended is the principle of your argument, it's just about you feeling good about something that doesn't really concern you therefore your backing it. I thought so, because the minute I start suggesting banning similar things that people enjoy having they instantly make weak excuses as to why the things they enjoy/find helpful shouldn't be banned. I see.

You know the irony in all of this is that i've probably done more in my life in terms of my garden and all the trees and flowers i've established for the environment than either of you two as normal younger people have done - I can actually do good things for the environment myself and on my own accord rather than using the law to force individuals and private companies to make me feel good that I have done something, when in reality i've done nothing but stifle the small freedoms of other people.

If you really believed in the environment argument your putting forward in support of this ban then you'd back the chewing gum and bottle ban I proposed earlier. But you won't because that would cause you upset/inconveniences even though, going by your own logic, it'd benefit the environment.

[Yawn]

u will still have carrier bags just slightly less than u wouldve done when they were free and u will have to pay a small charge which will go to charity. u may be tempted to invest in a fabulous reusable bag. at morrisons u can buy them for just 20p and when they break we will replace for free. they r gr8 and u can use them for many other purposes as well, they r rly useful.

i just dont understand u sometimes undertaker the pros far outweigh the cons. ur argument just seems to be because the store is being forced to charge us for carrier bags which were once given for free. :S

it is merely a gentle nudge into a greener lifestyle for the general public and in the process will help charities. it is not a major shift or loss for any1. when i go into work next week i will look at the figure we have on the board about how many carrier bags we go thru a week(??) or w/e it is a massive number. i mean it would even be beneficial for the company no? they will be cutting the spending on carrier bags which like i said is a massive figure

[-:Undertaker:-]

u will still have carrier bags just slightly less than u wouldve done when they were free and u will have to pay a small charge which will go to charity. u may be tempted to invest in a fabulous reusable bag. at morrisons u can buy them for just 20p and when they break we will replace for free. they r gr8 and u can use them for many other purposes as well, they r rly useful.

Sounds convincing.

Indeed if it's so plain simple and convincing, then surely you don't need to use the law to force people to comply with your logic?


i just dont understand u sometimes undertaker the pros far outweigh the cons. ur argument just seems to be because the store is being forced to charge us for carrier bags which were once given for free. :S

Indeed, that's the principle of my argument that freedom should be protected and force/micromanagement is negative. Absolutely, that's why you'll see me defending internet freedom even alongside some things I don't agree with such as taking drugs or smoking - because although I might not agree with those lifestyle choices, it's none of my business.

Catch my drift?


it is merely a gentle nudge into a greener lifestyle for the general public and in the process will help charities. it is not a major shift or loss for any1. when i go into work next week i will look at the figure we have on the board about how many carrier bags we go thru a week(??) or w/e it is a massive number.

If you care so much about helping charities then you are welcome to go and fundraise for them anyday of the week.


i mean it would even be beneficial for the company no? they will be cutting the spending on carrier bags which like i said is a massive figure

If it's beneficial for the company to charge for bags then the company will decide that for itself rather than Nick Clegg (a man who has no knowledge or experience in business and generally has spent his entire career promoting the micromanagement of society).

[Red]

Not talking about people who need dogs, talking about people who just happen to like having a dog. I personally aren't a fan of dogs and it wouldn't bother me in the slightest if they were banned/their movements restricted, infact it'd probably benefit me in that I wouldn't have to look out for dog **** all over the pavements round where I live.

But would I back a ban or restrictions? no. Why? because I don't believe in punishing the majority for the sins of a minority just as I never used to agree with the teacher holding back the entire class just because one idiot acted up like a clown in class.

Catch my drift?



If your area doesn't have a problem with litter then why are you wanting to ban plastic bags?



Again, when was the last time you saw a plastic bag from the 1980s whizzing past you?


'I don't believe in punishing the majority for the sins of a minority' I can see how that is related to those who don't pick up dog poo or who drop chewing gum but not how that is related to taking plastic bags when you don't need them?!? explain please

I don't want plastic bags banned lol... I just think its good how a small charge makes people think about how many they use and take them only when they need them. Plastic bag use is down by 80% in Northern Ireland. Roughly from 300 million to 17.5 million. 280 million less bags polluting the environment sounds good to me.

[Yawn]

Not talking about people who need dogs, talking about people who just happen to like having a dog. I personally aren't a fan of dogs and it wouldn't bother me in the slightest if they were banned/their movements restricted, infact it'd probably benefit me in that I wouldn't have to look out for dog **** all over the pavements round where I live.

But would I back a ban or restrictions? no. Why? because I don't believe in punishing the majority for the sins of a minority just as I never used to agree with the teacher holding back the entire class just because one idiot acted up like a clown in class.

Catch my drift?



If your area doesn't have a problem with litter then why are you wanting to ban plastic bags?

Everytime I propose banning something similar you come back with the retort of 'well my area doesnt have that problem' - in which case, why ban bags then?



Again, when was the last time you saw a plastic bag from the 1980s whizzing past you?



Ohhhhhhhhh so in other words it isn't about the environment which you pretended is the principle of your argument, it's just about you feeling good about something that doesn't really concern you therefore your backing it. I thought so, because the minute I start suggesting banning similar things that people enjoy having they instantly make weak excuses as to why the things they enjoy/find helpful shouldn't be banned. I see.

You know the irony in all of this is that i've probably done more in my life in terms of my garden and all the trees and flowers i've established for the environment than either of you two as normal younger people have done - I can actually do good things for the environment myself and on my own accord rather than using the law to force individuals and private companies to make me feel good that I have done something, when in reality i've done nothing but stifle the small freedoms of other people.

If you really believed in the environment argument your putting forward in support of this ban then you'd back the chewing gum and bottle ban I proposed earlier. But you won't because that would cause you upset/inconveniences even though, going by your own logic, it'd benefit the environment.
undertaker pls!

such a small change that can achieve so much gd should be welcomed. yes im lazy and selfish like much of the general public. i need the push and minor inconvenience to change my terrible polluting behaviour!

[-:Undertaker:-]

'I don't believe in punishing the majority for the sins of a minority' I can see how that is related to those who don't pick up dog poo or who drop chewing gum but not how that is related to taking plastic bags when you don't need them?!? explain please

Because you are forcing the majority of society to pay this 5p tax on plastic bags via the law just because a small minority are selfish and drop their carrier bags. My family use all of our plastic bags up, so why should we be punished because a small group in society are careless and selfish?


I don't want plastic bags banned lol... I just think its good how a small charge makes people think about how many they use and take them only when they need them. Plastic bag use is down by 80% in Northern Ireland. Roughly from 300 million to 17.5 million. 280 million less bags polluting the environment sounds good to me.

So why not ban chewing gum then? or place a higher tax on it (say 50p a packet) to make people think about the impact that chewing gum has on our streets and on wildlife?


undertaker pls!

such a small change that can achieve so much gd should be welcomed. yes im lazy and selfish like much of the general public. i need the push and minor inconvenience to change my terrible polluting behaviour!

Indeed absolutely, so let's ban chewing gum and ban bottles and cans yeah?

And i'm sure there's lots more we can ban and restrict for the good of the general public too, because we know best.

[Yawn]

Because you are forcing the majority of society to pay this 5p tax on plastic bags via the law just because a small minority are selfish and drop their carrier bags. My family use all of our plastic bags up, so why should we be punished because a small group in society are careless and selfish?



So why not ban chewing gum then? or place a higher tax on it (say 50p a packet) to make people think about the impact that chewing gum has on our streets and on wildlife?



Indeed absolutely, so let's ban chewing gum and ban bottles and cans yeah?

And i'm sure there's lots more we can ban and restrict for the good of the general public too, because we know best.

no undertaker this is v small change which cause v little inconvenience. we r not making crazy sweeping bans but if u have gd alternative to cans then u should ban them !

u r so stubborn i wish u would just have a gd seeing to from a hot male maybe u wouldnt be so up tight then :@@@@@

[-:Undertaker:-]

no undertaker this is v small change which cause v little inconvenience. we r not making crazy sweeping bans but if u have gd alternative to cans then u should ban them !

Aka it causes little inconvenience to you personally.


u r so stubborn i wish u would just have a gd seeing to from a hot male maybe u wouldnt be so up tight then :@@@@@

Called principle. :P

Once you start banning things and micromanaging other people, then that means they will at some point do the same to you.

[lemons]

the only bad coming out of this is that I will have to pay to buy bin bags :(

[Red]

It isn't because a small majority drops them though?!? Fair enough you use them but putting them in your bin doesn't magically make them biodegradeable. It will go to landfill sites and take years to decompose. You seem to be missing the point that cans and plastic bottle can be recycled. Also I swear chewing gum is already around 50p anyway.

[Yawn]

but undertaker it literally is 5p for a carrier bag. i think u have read too much into it!!! yes it limit ur freedom (well the stores freedom but they still ebenefit like i said). who gives an f about that when its 5p that ur paying (or not paying anything if u get reusable bags like a lot of peeps do already) and ur also helping the enviroment dramatically and giving to charity as well. every1 should be happy

i think ur issue is 1 only u have and it is not something to worry about. this is gd change for the majority of ppl and they will take to this change v well and see the positives like i am. i think u should start worrying about lack of freedoms when something more major comes along tbh! it is nice dsicussing with u but i am now going to focus on habbo closely and play that instead of discuss, c u later

[e5]

5p a bag soon bloody adds up :/

[Yawn]

maybe if ur living in poverty

[Phil]

What?!? You don't have to pay for bags?! Guys don't complain, we've had this in place in Ireland for as long as I can remember (and people are still bloody giving out) and they're 22c here!

[Samantha]

Firstly, in reply to subo; about people buying one thing and getting a carrier bag, I usually do this for a number of reasons. Firstly, if I buy something else from another shop then I don't need to get another bag for it thus saving on them already. Secondly, if I am going shopping, walking around or going to work then I can hang the bag up with a lesser risk of my stuff going walkabouts and I won't have to mess about as much as I would do if they were in my hands.

It's fine saying charge for bags in supermarkets, but think of all the other smaller branches of shops that aren't supermarkets, but people buy a lot from them. It's like in my shop, I often get asked if they have to pay for bags, yeah some people take a few too many, but there won't be a reduction in that instance will there? People will still use the free bags in those shops that don't charge. I know we have a Lidl at the bottom of my street and they charge for bags, but people who use them hardly reuse them - again not a reduction. I don't really feel the need to put a price on carrier bags, I do agree with -:Undertaker:-; when he says why can't he use a free bag when he buys shopping from the store.

Overall, perhaps a compromise could easily be if you spend x amount you get 1 bag, spend y amount get 2 etc.

[Red]

Firstly, in reply to @subo (http://www.habboxforum.com/member.php?u=112144); about people buying one thing and getting a carrier bag, I usually do this for a number of reasons. Firstly, if I buy something else from another shop then I don't need to get another bag for it thus saving on them already. Secondly, if I am going shopping, walking around or going to work then I can hang the bag up with a lesser risk of my stuff going walkabouts and I won't have to mess about as much as I would do if they were in my hands.

It's fine saying charge for bags in supermarkets, but think of all the other smaller branches of shops that aren't supermarkets, but people buy a lot from them. It's like in my shop, I often get asked if they have to pay for bags, yeah some people take a few too many, but there won't be a reduction in that instance will there? People will still use the free bags in those shops that don't charge. I know we have a Lidl at the bottom of my street and they charge for bags, but people who use them hardly reuse them - again not a reduction. I don't really feel the need to put a price on carrier bags, I do agree with @-:Undertaker:- (http://www.habboxforum.com/member.php?u=24233); when he says why can't he use a free bag when he buys shopping from the store.

Overall, perhaps a compromise could easily be if you spend x amount you get 1 bag, spend y amount get 2 etc.

Every shop here has the 5p charge. When it comes into play in England there will deffo be a reduction.

[Yawn]

ppl take bags for the sake of it or use excessive amounts of bags for the sake of it which they wouldnt do if they had a 5p charge

a lot more ppl would start using reusable bags which r a much better and incredibly affordable alternative

/endthread

[Kardan]

Some people on here make it sound like they can't take their own bags with them before they go shopping.

[-:Undertaker:-]

It isn't because a small majority drops them though?!? Fair enough you use them but putting them in your bin doesn't magically make them biodegradeable. It will go to landfill sites and take years to decompose. You seem to be missing the point that cans and plastic bottle can be recycled. Also I swear chewing gum is already around 50p anyway.

They can be recyced but many are not and are simply dropped.

And again, your point on plastic bags - they actually disappear very quickly.


but undertaker it literally is 5p for a carrier bag. i think u have read too much into it!!! yes it limit ur freedom (well the stores freedom but they still ebenefit like i said). who gives an f about that when its 5p that ur paying (or not paying anything if u get reusable bags like a lot of peeps do already) and ur also helping the enviroment dramatically and giving to charity as well. every1 should be happy

i think ur issue is 1 only u have and it is not something to worry about. this is gd change for the majority of ppl and they will take to this change v well and see the positives like i am. i think u should start worrying about lack of freedoms when something more major comes along tbh! it is nice dsicussing with u but i am now going to focus on habbo closely and play that instead of discuss, c u later

I do worry about freedoms all the time, indeed that's why I post important topics (such as the EU and our civil liberties being eroded) along with smaller topics like this - just think that we've now got to the pathetic point whereby the government steps in over plastic bags.

As for giving to charity, i'll make that call thank you very much and not you on my behalf.


What?!? You don't have to pay for bags?! Guys don't complain, we've had this in place in Ireland for as long as I can remember (and people are still bloody giving out) and they're 22c here!

Which is another reason to oppose it here.


Some people on here make it sound like they can't take their own bags with them before they go shopping.

So do you refuse plastic bags and take your own when you go shopping?

[Kardan]

So do you refuse plastic bags and take your own when you go shopping?

I don't refuse them since I don't get offered them... And yes, we take our own when we go shopping :P

[-:Undertaker:-]

I don't refuse them since I don't get offered them... And yes, we take our own when we go shopping :P

Fair enough. :)

Well that's the solution then - lead by example and not by force.

[Red]

If they can be recycled then why aren't they then lol
How do they disappear quickly? Not an expert but a quick google search says it takes years...

[Kardan]

If they can be recycled then why aren't they then lol
How do they disappear quickly? Not an expert but a quick google search says it takes years...

Probably because of people's general laziness.

And by quickly, I think maybe he means quicker than the so claimed thousands of years.

[-:Undertaker:-]

If they can be recycled then why aren't they then lol
How do they disappear quickly? Not an expert but a quick google search says it takes years...

Well not to blow my own horn here but i'm rather observant of nature/the environment and I know from my own garden and even simple things such as barbed wire fencing that plastic bags fall apart very very quickly. As I have kept repeating throughout this discussion, when was the last time you saw a 2000 M&S Christmas bag fly past you or a 1997 Asda bag? you don't.

[Red]

Well not to blow my own horn here but i'm rather observant of nature/the environment and I know from my own garden and even simple things such as barbed wire fencing that plastic bags fall apart very very quickly. As I have kept repeating throughout this discussion, when was the last time you saw a 2000 M&S Christmas bag fly past you or a 1997 Asda bag? you don't.

well like I said, here we have people to clean up our streets x :) I'm sure if no one was left to pick up the litter it would be a different story.
I highly doubt its a myth that they are bad for the environment, and that all the experts are wrong on decomposition rates. They also have toxins form the dye which can contaminate the soil.

[Kardan]

Well not to blow my own horn here but i'm rather observant of nature/the environment and I know from my own garden and even simple things such as barbed wire fencing that plastic bags fall apart very very quickly. As I have kept repeating throughout this discussion, when was the last time you saw a 2000 M&S Christmas bag fly past you or a 1997 Asda bag? you don't.

Because people clean the streets :P On landfill sites it's a different matter however. I do remember seeing a vintage Walkers crisps packet the other day in someones front garden that was being done up though :P

[GommeInc]

Also, they do rot - when was the last time you saw a 1980s Sainburys bag or a 1999 M&S Christmas bag blowing around?
Funny you should say that. I have a load of white Sainsbury's bags from the 90s which are going as strong as ever :P They haven't disintegrated. They were replaced with the orange ones which you see today. That said, your point still remains - haven't seen any floating around, but they might have been picked up by refuse collectors or litter collectors over the years.

I don't see why a tax is necessary. Reusable bags made out of hemp or bags for life are a sound investment. If they're so good, just use them. Having a tax to force people to use them isn't so much about protecting the environment - that's just a by-product from lining the Government coffers. It's just an excuse to make money, with the environment coming second to it. If they really want people to use re-usable bags, advertise the benefits of re-usable bags. Humans, strangely, aren't that thick.

[-:Undertaker:-]

well like I said, here we have people to clean up our streets x :) I'm sure if no one was left to pick up the litter it would be a different story.
I highly doubt its a myth that they are bad for the environment, and that all the experts are wrong on decomposition rates. They also have toxins form the dye which can contaminate the soil.

Experts are often wrong and often exaggerate claims for political or financial purposes, you only have to look at my global warming thread.

Look, i'm against it on the principle of force being used. But if you think force should be used to 'clean up our streets' then fine - but i'm asking you to apply it equally against things you may enjoy too such as chewing gum which also makes a mess of the streets.

If somebody argues on principle then at least they have a viable argument and earn respect of the opposition rather than being all over the place.

[Red]

Experts are often wrong and often exaggerate claims for political or financial purposes, you only have to look at my global warming thread.

Look, i'm against it on the principle of force being used. But if you think force should be used to 'clean up our streets' then fine - but i'm asking you to apply it equally against things you may enjoy too such as chewing gum which also makes a mess of the streets.

If somebody argues on principle then at least they have a viable argument and earn respect of the opposition rather than being all over the place.

It's a small change that people adapt to very easily/quickly. People being forced to lock up their dogs or chewing gum bans is drastic and while you seem to think they are comparable. I do not.

[Futz]

Sounds like a sound proposition old sport

If the money actually goes towards the environmental cause

But polotics

[peteyt]

A little bit off topic but from what I've heard everything we are doing to reduce landfill, pollution etc. here in the UK is pointless because countries abroad like China are doing double maybe more. Not sure how true this is but it doesn't surprise me

[Phil]

Which is another reason to oppose it here.


Uhm, how? :S

[Yawn]

the main reason we would want to reduce the amount of plastic carrier bags we use is because of the massive amount of fuel and energy that is required to make the bags. it is incredibly unsustainable and causes issues with co2 emissions/global warming etc.

but yes they cause litter in the streets and dont degrade particularly well as well which is another problem


A little bit off topic but from what I've heard everything we are doing to reduce landfill, pollution etc. here in the UK is pointless because countries abroad like China are doing double maybe more. Not sure how true this is but it doesn't surprise meyes thats true and isnt off topic at all :)

[peteyt]

the main reason we would want to reduce the amount of plastic carrier bags we use is because of the massive amount of fuel and energy that is required to make the bags. it is incredibly unsustainable and causes issues with co2 emissions/global warming etc.

but yes they cause litter in the streets and dont degrade particularly well as well which is another problem

yes thats true and isnt off topic at all :)

Shouldn't we be trying to reduce it then. Obviously things are being done, but I do think we are focusing more on our countries smaller pollution than the bigger countries doing the worst damage on much bigger scales.

I also wonder if the bag tax would be effective. My mother I know takes bags with her all the time in her handbag but obviously I don't carry a handbag ha. I think a lot of people will end up buying the bags anyway's - it will reduce it slightly but for most they will just pay the small fee.