Is comitting suicide a selfish act?

[Kardan]

So on my Facebook news feed this morning, there was a status about a man that had attempted to jump in front of a train at my local train station. The comments section soon turned to be a huge debate on the situation, with half of the people wishing the guy a speedy recovery, and the other half of people saying that the man was selfish. This of course then drew criticism from people that had suffered from depression, and it went round and round in circles basically.

My story was about a man trying to kill himself by going under a train, but the debate can be about other circumstances as well.

Is committing suicide a selfish act?

[Yawn]

yes but thats not rly significant when some1 has felt that they were so sad that they wanted to kill themself :'(

[MKR&*42]

Depends what your definition of selfish is. Some dictionaries include the word "pleasure" (which I would really doubt a suicidal person is seeking for, moreso release), but I take the view it's acting in ones own interests. So yes it is "selfish", but not necessarily to such a negative connotation that people try to portray.

You realise this thread will end up in a gigantic argument as has happened many times when suicide/self harm gets brought up on here :P

[lemons]

no but there are other options available

[Stephen]

jumping in front of a train is selfish
if you're gonna kill yourself then actually do it yourself
take pills
hang yourself
set yourself on fire

When someone jumps in front of a train then that train driver is gonna be scarred for life because he was driving the train

like say someone jumped in front of a train and then a few years later you ask the train driver if he's ever killed someone
I'm pretty sure he'd hesitate before answering that

[buttons]

Definition of selfish: lack of consideration for others, concerned with ones own pleasure.

hardly find committing suicide pleasurable so not really, yeah it's a personal act concerned with oneself but so what? if we only looked out for other people rather than ourselves then we would get depressed n commit suicide anyway lol. lack of consideration for others can cause suicide, so why should a suicidal person care how they're treating others. ppl say oh they should have thought about who they're going to hurt, their family n friends blahblah but myb if the family n friends thought about the suicidal person then it wouldn't happen. anyway, we do selfish stuff on the daily with our friends, family, lovers etc so w.e

[Futz]

Usually if you're going to commit suicide you're not thinking about anything other than what's driving you to it, I don't think anyone kills themselves to spite others

However commiting suicide infront of a train is pretty unconvenient for other people but that's not what was going through the persons head at that time so I wouldn't say it was selfish, the person who did it probably wanted to kill himself and a train sounded like a sudden death and a lot easier than say pulling the trigger on a gun, once you've built up the courage to jump theres no turning back because the train isn't going to stop.

If you want to talk about the most convenient "selfless" way someone was to kill themselves you'd want the suicidee to donate his organs and body to science, pay for a cremation/plot of land for whatevers left and cover all costs of this process, theres also the problem of emotional damage on people you know but we'll leave that out. But tbh if you're suicidal, you really don't give a ****, even killing yourself with pills, hanging, jumping is still inconvienient/"selfish"/whateveryouwanttocallit for anyone involved

[Jaiisun]

I don't think anyone kills themselves to spite others
Although some attempts at suicide may be to spite others. What I mean is, someone may attempt suicide but not intend to actually kill themselves but more act as a cry for attention, or as a hitback at someone else.

I think by "selfish" we're talking of (a) the inconvenience to others if you choose a method that affects a large number of people and (b) the selfishness of the effect on others, such as family/friends/colleagues etc.

In terms of "inconvience to others", I don't think that would even cross your mind if you were depressed and suicidal? I think that many choose not to commit suicide because of the effects on family/friends. It would scar them forever and they may not understand the circumstances of your reasoning in taking your own life.

However, with someone who is heavily depressed and suicical, as has been said, I don't think anything could stop them. Some people just become fixated on the idea and are 100% sure they want to die - no matter of the consequences to others.

[ARTPOP]

idk how its classified as selfish cause ur doing it to urself & harming no-one else, it only makes family & friends upset

[oli]

Definition of selfish: lack of consideration for others, concerned with ones own pleasure.

hardly find committing suicide pleasurable so not really, yeah it's a personal act concerned with oneself but so what? if we only looked out for other people rather than ourselves then we would get depressed n commit suicide anyway lol. lack of consideration for others can cause suicide, so why should a suicidal person care how they're treating others. ppl say oh they should have thought about who they're going to hurt, their family n friends blahblah but myb if the family n friends thought about the suicidal person then it wouldn't happen. anyway, we do selfish stuff on the daily with our friends, family, lovers etc so w.e

That's only one definition: "concerned chiefly with one's own personal profit or pleasure." is what I found. And even though it is not for pleasure (arguably), it is definitely to their profit considering they feel the need to commit suicide to stop the pain, and if they do commit suicide and stop the pain it is surely to their own profit? Even in their eyes they feel they're going to profit from committing suicide otherwise they wouldn't complete the act. And generally people who commit suicide are committing suicide because they're upset over something correct? So would you agree that it is actually hypocritical for them to commit suicide whilst not caring for others and making others upset?

idk how its classified as selfish cause ur doing it to urself & harming no-one else, it only makes family & friends upset
Did you not just explain how it can be deemed selfish?

[AcarioRuiz]

Yes, I'd say it is selfish although I do have sympathy for self-harmers and I wish that they could overcome their depression in a different way. I can't really see inside their head though, so I can't be certain.

[peteyt]

Yes, I'd say it is selfish although I do have sympathy for self-harmers and I wish that they could overcome their depression in a different way. I can't really see inside their head though, so I can't be certain.

I'd say self harming could be worse in a strange way if it makes sense lol it's like they want to kill themselves but won't.

I think it can be selfish especially if the problem isn't as big as the person thinks. Take self harming, a lot of people do it because they have actual problems but there's also the whole emo subculture with people self harming for really the sake of it, image, attention etc. A lot of them have tiny problems e.g. partners left them etc. Yeah it can be upsetting but when you look at the bigger picture and realise people are being rapped and battered daily then these problems do look tiny. So yeah those ones I do find are selfish

[AgnesIO]

Got to say, I think some forms are far more selfish that others. Just because your life is crap, doesn't mean I want to have my train delayed for hours on end every other week because that ***** has jumped under it. Sorry, it just annoys me so much.

Having never suffered from anything or known anyone who has committed suicide, I guess I cannot relate to it. But having had multiple friends who have died from cancer, I think it is sick to think some people would take their own life, when those people wanted nothing more than the chance to live.

[-Moniquee.]

I think it is selfish, it creates so many more problems. People don't understand how much it affects your family and friends. Many problems can be fixed.

[Vodafone]

No it's selfish for people to view it as a selfish act.

[Lewis]

It may be selfish, but it's not their fault. 99.9999999% of the time, people commit suicide for a good reason.. Well when I say good, I don't mean good... I just mean a reason that made them to.

Some may seem that reasons as not good enough, but it depends how that affects that specific person.

[Kardan]

No it's selfish for people to view it as a selfish act.

How so?

[Explorator]

In some ways, it can be.

If people who can possibly get physically hurt from it are involved, yes. (Example: Jumping infront of a train)
The only reason I find that way of suicide selfish is because you could hurt other people by doing it.

It's a shame though tbh.

[jorsian]

As always it depends on the situation.

It could be considered selfish if the person in question is leaving behind family who rely on them to provide, such as a daughter or son. However, even if this is the case, it might not be considered selfish if the person was in such a mental state that they weren't capable of evaluating their actions beforehand. People who suffer from depression aren't always logical.

No one can definitively say if the man who jumped in front of the train was being selfish because (I assume) there weren't enough details provided about his situation to jump to such a conclusion.

[-:Undertaker:-]

It isn't selfish no, you own your life - not the state, your family or your friends.

[Aiden]

Mhmmm I'm going to say yes...


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QNzdhqrocqA

[James]

It depends. In some ways I guess it is because it's relieving your pain, but creating more for your loved ones who will miss you and have to live everyday knowing you're gone.

But on the other hand, if they do want to, it should be their choice then they should have the right to.

Off topic: Yay 500th post.

[Vodafone]

It isn't selfish no, you own your life - not the state, your family or your friends.

Well put. It isn't an easy decision either.

[CrazyLemurs]

A lot of people see it as selfish but I cannot fathom how you could be so self-absorbed to think so
If you're trying to convince (or in some cases force) someone to keep being alive even if they absolutely despise it so that you don't have to suffer the pain of not seeing someone, you're committing as harsh an act as they would be.
Besides, if the person you love and want to stay alive doesn't want that themselves, you should recognise that any fair person would let them live (or get rid of) their life in whatever way they want. This is why the law/s against suicide has/have been repealed.

[Kardan]

A lot of people see it as selfish but I cannot fathom how you could be so self-absorbed to think so
If you're trying to convince (or in some cases force) someone to keep being alive even if they absolutely despise it so that you don't have to suffer the pain of not seeing someone, you're committing as harsh an act as they would be.
Besides, if the person you love and want to stay alive doesn't want that themselves, you should recognise that any fair person would let them live (or get rid of) their life in whatever way they want. This is why the law/s against suicide has/have been repealed.

This isn't really about creating laws or anything, just whether in some cases, can suicide be seen as selfish? And as some people have said, they're situations where it can be seen as selfish. Of course, if we start talking about leaving loved ones behind rather than the method of committing suicide that causes the selfishness, then you would have a point about 'forcing' people to not commit suicide. I guess it depends what you're judging it on.

[CrazyLemurs]

This isn't really about creating laws or anything, just whether in some cases, can suicide be seen as selfish? And as some people have said, they're situations where it can be seen as selfish. Of course, if we start talking about leaving loved ones behind rather than the method of committing suicide that causes the selfishness, then you would have a point about 'forcing' people to not commit suicide. I guess it depends what you're judging it on.

But what I'm saying is that there are almost no situations suicide should be perceived as selfish, and I don't really see what effect the method might have on the 'selfishness' of the act. Dying quietly with a lethal mixture of drugs in your bathroom alone is just as selfish/unselfish as say, jumping from a very high place.

[Kardan]

But what I'm saying is that there are almost no situations suicide should be perceived as selfish, and I don't really see what effect the method might have on the 'selfishness' of the act. Dying quietly with a lethal mixture of drugs in your bathroom alone is just as selfish/unselfish as say, jumping from a very high place.

What about someone jumping in front of a train at a crowded train station? That will have an impact on all of the people watching at the station, not to mention the train driver. It will also cause delays which causes an impact up and down the country (depending on the line etc.) and can cause damage to the station and the train.

As you said, a non selfish way would be taking a lethal amount of drugs alone. Would you not say that jumping in front of a train is more selfish than taking drugs in your bathroom?

[CrazyLemurs]

What about someone jumping in front of a train at a crowded train station? That will have an impact on all of the people watching at the station, not to mention the train driver. It will also cause delays which causes an impact up and down the country (depending on the line etc.) and can cause damage to the station and the train.

As you said, a non selfish way would be taking a lethal amount of drugs alone. Would you not say that jumping in front of a train is more selfish than taking drugs in your bathroom?

I can accept the former would be much more impacting to others as well as traumatising, but I don't see what kind of selfishness that would be
The person would be dead near-instantly and not be able to reap the sadistic satisfaction of seeing so many dozens seeing that kind of pain, so what would s/he be able to benefit in either situation?


I'm currently on my iPhone if you are seeing this message. Pretend like you care xx

[Kardan]

I can accept the former would be much more impacting to others as well as traumatising, but I don't see what kind of selfishness that would be
The person would be dead near-instantly and not be able to reap the sadistic satisfaction of seeing so many dozens seeing that kind of pain, so what would s/he be able to benefit in either situation?


I'm currently on my iPhone if you are seeing this message. Pretend like you care xx

There is no benefit, but that's not what selfishness is. They are being selfish in that situation because they are only thinking about themselves, and not the negative impact it could have on other people.

[CrazyLemurs]

There is no benefit, but that's not what selfishness is. They are being selfish in that situation because they are only thinking about themselves, and not the negative impact it could have on other people.

But, if the problem lies with how their suicide may affect those around them, maybe there will become a time when we accept suicide and as a result are somewhat desensitised to it. It is a person's last wish, when it comes down to it, and whilst jumping in front of a moving train is not considerate to others, it may just be something we have to learn to accept as a part of society


I'm currently on my iPhone if you are seeing this message. Pretend like you care xx

[Kardan]

But, if the problem lies with how their suicide may affect those around them, maybe there will become a time when we accept suicide and as a result are somewhat desensitised to it. It is a person's last wish, when it comes down to it, and whilst jumping in front of a moving train is not considerate to others, it may just be something we have to learn to accept as a part of society


I'm currently on my iPhone if you are seeing this message. Pretend like you care xx

I won't argue about other points, since this isn't really a debate about suicide in general, just whether or not it can be considered selfish, and as you said yourself, there are situations when suicide is not very considerate to others, so there are occasions it is indeed selfish.

[CrazyLemurs]

I won't argue about other points, since this isn't really a debate about suicide in general, just whether or not it can be considered selfish, and as you said yourself, there are situations when suicide is not very considerate to others, so there are occasions it is indeed selfish.

There are some situations but by no means does that show a majority


I'm currently on my iPhone if you are seeing this message. Pretend like you care xx

[GommeInc]

It isn't selfish no, you own your life - not the state, your family or your friends.
Technically that means that it is a selfish act :P You own your life and only concern yourself with it, therefore you do not consider the thoughts of the state, your family or your friends :P

"Selfishness is placing concern with oneself or one's own interests above the well-being or interests of others."

[Wengles]

Yes, I think it's the ultimate selfish act.

[Zak]

At the end of the day I think it's your life and you should do what you please but in some circumstances I can definitely see how it is selfish.

[karter]

A lot of you people are sitting and JUDGING people who commit suicide/try to commit suicide despite the fact that you don't know them and don't have anything to do with them yet you have opinions on them. You better check yourself before you post

[Yawn]

i cant with some of u complaining about waiting for ur train when some1 has just died

smh

[Jazz]

I think to deem a person as selfish you'd better have a damn good idea of what that person is going through and you would have to be an 100% selfless person otherwise you're literally speaking dead air anyone who is vaguely educated in the matter. At the end of the day, I believe that a person who can so easily pass someone off or judge some as being selfish (in this situation) without knowing one thing about the person or the situation really need to remove their keyboard from their arse.

Not going to write a full debate post because I'm 2 months late, and it will end up hitting a nerve but I thought I'd wade in

[AgnesIO]

i cant with some of u complaining about waiting for ur train when some1 has just died

smh

In fairness, the argument does stand; commuters have to face enough delays at it is - do you know what it is like to stand in the freezing cold, pouring rain because someone decided to jump in front of a train?

Not saying it is nicer that someone dies; but having never known anyone to commit suicide, nor been anywhere near suicidal I cannot say I really understand their feelings.

[Yawn]

In fairness, the argument does stand; commuters have to face enough delays at it is - do you know what it is like to stand in the freezing cold, pouring rain because someone decided to jump in front of a train?

Not saying it is nicer that someone dies; but having never known anyone to commit suicide, nor been anywhere near suicidal I cannot say I really understand their feelings.

so u should probably refrain from commenting especially with something as trivial as train delays :S

[AgnesIO]

so u should probably refrain from commenting especially with something as trivial as train delays :S

Why shouldn't I comment? This is a fairly widely held view, particularly among commuters.

Selfish; "lacking consideration for other people".

Therefore, yes, technically it is a selfish act. And let's move on to the train driver; why should they have to suffer? Should they have to endure some muppet jumping in front of a train, potentially leaving that train driver scarred for life? Or does their life not matter?

[Yawn]

Why shouldn't I comment? This is a fairly widely held view, particularly among commuters.

Selfish; "lacking consideration for other people".

Therefore, yes, technically it is a selfish act. And let's move on to the train driver; why should they have to suffer? Should they have to endure some muppet jumping in front of a train, potentially leaving that train driver scarred for life? Or does their life not matter?
cos its a totally bizarre thing to say and rly insensitive and ur a terrible person for saying this :S

[AgnesIO]

cos its a totally bizarre thing to say and rly insensitive and ur a terrible person for saying this :S

Most expected -rep in the world.

Sorry, but this is an opinion I hold - and if you noticed the title of the debate it says "Is committing suicide a selfish act" - and in my view, yes, it is. Not just because of the train view - however that does build my opinion.

- - - Updated - - -

lemons at least have the guts to reply and state why this post is disgusting...


Why shouldn't I comment? This is a fairly widely held view, particularly among commuters.

Selfish; "lacking consideration for other people".

Therefore, yes, technically it is a selfish act. And let's move on to the train driver; why should they have to suffer? Should they have to endure some muppet jumping in front of a train, potentially leaving that train driver scarred for life? Or does their life not matter?

Is it the muppet bit? If so, I thought I might annoy some overly sensitive people, but personally I do think it is a cruel, selfish act when thinking of the train driver - answer my question, why should they have to suffer as a result of someone they have NEVER done any harm to, are NOT to blame for the suicidal persons feelings and are NOT even connected to this person who jumps in front of a train?

I wish these people didn't jump, I wish their lives didn't reach a stage where they think they need to kill themselves; but please, don't jump in front of a train - lets ignore the commuters and tens of thousands of people who often have to wait all evening, but the train driver.

[Yawn]

Most expected -rep in the world.

Sorry, but this is an opinion I hold - and if you noticed the title of the debate it says "Is committing suicide a selfish act" - and in my view, yes, it is. Not just because of the train view - however that does build my opinion.

- - - Updated - - -

lemons at least have the guts to reply and state why this post is disgusting...



Is it the muppet bit? If so, I thought I might annoy some overly sensitive people, but personally I do think it is a cruel, selfish act when thinking of the train driver - answer my question, why should they have to suffer as a result of someone they have NEVER done any harm to, are NOT to blame for the suicidal persons feelings and are NOT even connected to this person who jumps in front of a train?

I wish these people didn't jump, I wish their lives didn't reach a stage where they think they need to kill themselves; but please, don't jump in front of a train - lets ignore the commuters and tens of thousands of people who often have to wait all evening, but the train driver.

u didnt even initially mention the train driver so lets not try and flip this from ur original stupid point about delays and then standing in the rain lol. calling the suicide person a muppet was pretty shocking as well. u r a terrible person and im not interested in anything else u have to say, bye!

- - - Updated - - -

tbh ur entire 1st post was pretty stupid start to finish

[AgnesIO]

u didnt even initially mention the train driver so lets not try and flip this from ur original stupid point about delays and then standing in the rain lol. calling the suicide person a muppet was pretty shocking as well. u r a terrible person and im not interested in anything else u have to say, bye!

- - - Updated - - -

tbh ur entire 1st post was pretty stupid start to finish

Come off it, the post you -repped me for was about the driver. Get real, don't -rep a post and then say that "I -repped you for a different post" (as you effectively just have). I'm rly gld u fink im a terrible person, to be honest I'll take that with a pinch of salt. I've lost two close friends to illness, and to be honest, they would have done anything in their power to live; so yes, I think it is ******* selfish to kill yourself - I'm not going to pretend differently for the sake of some people that can't handle the other side of the debate, I don't really care if that view gets me -repped - it's a view that I hold, and one side of the two-sided debate!

But yeah, if my original post bothered you so much, why didn't you -rep that - instead you disliked the post that featured the train driver - so I'm not "flipping the coin" at all.

[Yawn]

Come off it, the post you -repped me for was about the driver. Get real, don't -rep a post and then say that "I -repped you for a different post" (as you effectively just have). I'm rly gld u fink im a terrible person, to be honest I'll take that with a pinch of salt. I've lost two close friends to illness, and to be honest, they would have done anything in their power to live; so yes, I think it is ******* selfish to kill yourself - I'm not going to pretend differently for the sake of some people that can't handle the other side of the debate, I don't really care if that view gets me -repped - it's a view that I hold, and one side of the two-sided debate!

But yeah, if my original post bothered you so much, why didn't you -rep that - instead you disliked the post that featured the train driver - so I'm not "flipping the coin" at all.

i -rep u for "muppet" but it was a general -rep u noob not that it matters or makes any difference to anything :S

some1 shouldnt have to continue and live a sad life because ur mate died of illness wtf everry1s life is different. ur doing my head in stop quoting me ur speaking absolute trash constantly ur evil

[AgnesIO]

i -rep u for "muppet" but it was a general -rep u noob not that it matters or makes any difference to anything :S

some1 shouldnt have to continue and live a sad life because ur mate died of illness wtf everry1s life is different. ur doing my head in stop quoting me ur speaking absolute trash constantly ur evil

I'm evil and terrible. Fantastic!

No, I am pointing out that for me killing yourself is wrong, when so many people don't even get the choice. Therefore, I consider suicide a selfish act; and part of my viewpoint is the thing about trains Nobody is forcing you to respond, either.

The original post that started this debate brought up the thing about trains; and the post also points out that it is a big debate.

[Yawn]

I'm evil and terrible. Fantastic!

No, I am pointing out that for me killing yourself is wrong, when so many people don't even get the choice. Therefore, I consider suicide a selfish act; and part of my viewpoint is the thing about trains Nobody is forcing you to respond, either.

The original post that started this debate brought up the thing about trains; and the post also points out that it is a big debate.

well they r all ******* moronic points, good day!

[AgnesIO]

well they r all ******* moronic points, good day!

What an intelligent response, although I expect nothing less. The point in a debate is just that; to debate (ie. argue the different sides). My side is one of the two key arguments; the fact you don't understand what a debate is simply isn't my problem.

[Yawn]

What an intelligent response, although I expect nothing less. The point in a debate is just that; to debate (ie. argue the different sides). My side is one of the two key arguments; the fact you don't understand what a debate is simply isn't my problem.
i have no interest in debating with u, *REMOVED*

i established tht in my 1st post but u kept saying more stupid/sick stuff sooooo this has nothing to do with my intelligence but im most likely smarter than u anyway :)

Edited by Matts (Forum Super Moderator): Please don't be rude to others.

[AgnesIO]

i have no interest in debating with u, *REMOVED*

i established tht in my 1st post but u kept saying more stupid/sick stuff sooooo this has nothing to do with my intelligence but im most likely smarter than u anyway :)

Why are you in the debates forum then! The entire point is to debate, the fact you're two soft to handle a widely argued point is your problem.

Oh, and I highly doubt that ;)

Sent from my HTC One X

[Yawn]

Why are you in the debates forum then! The entire point is to debate, the fact you're two soft to handle a widely argued point is your problem.

Oh, and I highly doubt that ;)

Sent from my HTC One X

two

i dont doubt it for a second anymore

[AgnesIO]

two

i dont doubt it for a second anymore

Aha, the joys of swipe keyboard on Android. Not that a miss-swipe means much when talking to someone "hu tlks lyk dis".. :L

[Wengles]

Someones repped me for having a 'disgusting opinion', which I'm not sure whether that says more about you than it does me. I've had this debate several hundred times.

I've looked at this from thousands of different opinions, I can't see how it can't be considered selfish. But it begs the question from me whether you think that being selfish is always a 'disgusting' thing to do. I for one don't think it is.

But every excuse for suicide that I've seen is always from the position of the person considering suicide. By it's very definition it is about ones self. And ones life and the emotional guilt someone else will have if they're considering themselves as a burden.

[AgnesIO]

Someones repped me for having a 'disgusting opinion', which I'm not sure whether that says more about you than it does me. I've had this debate several hundred times.

I've looked at this from thousands of different opinions, I can't see how it can't be considered selfish. But it begs the question from me whether you think that being selfish is always a 'disgusting' thing to do. I for one don't think it is.

But every excuse for suicide that I've seen is always from the position of the person considering suicide. By it's very definition it is about ones self. And ones life and the emotional guilt someone else will have if they're considering themselves as a burden.




That will have been either subo or lemons - neither have the guts to leave their names lol

[buttons]

I'm evil and terrible. Fantastic!

No, I am pointing out that for me killing yourself is wrong, when so many people don't even get the choice. Therefore, I consider suicide a selfish act; and part of my viewpoint is the thing about trains Nobody is forcing you to respond, either.

The original post that started this debate brought up the thing about trains; and the post also points out that it is a big debate.
the people who want to kill themselves obviously have a horrible life and why should they be forced to live through it just because someone else is going to die? maybe the person with the terminal illness had a much better upbringing and outlook on life than the suicidal person. maybe the person is commiting suicide because of a mental illness, or cause they've been raped/abused etc, I really don't think it's fair to say "someone with cancer is dying, u shouldn't be as selfish to kill yourself" when they have legitimate reason to.

pulling yourself out of depression and mental illness is a seriously difficult thing to do and most people don't or never fully do. getting rid of the pain once and for all sometimes seems the only choice because u don't see it ever getting better. only a lucky few gain the resources and support to pull through but when you're in the position of the suicidal person, it is very hard for yourself or someone else to convince you otherwise. you have to constantly pull yourself back up and generally need some level of support to do so, not something everyone has. i rly don't think anyone who hasn't been in that situation can understand. i remember hearing about depression when i was young and never connected with the whole 'u think it won't get better' thing until i went through it, to me it was just empty words i didnt take seriously and would say the same as everyone else "it always gets better!!11" "oh it's not that bad you're not kids in africa!!11". it is a v.v.v. difficult thing to go through and even harder to beat, i commend anyone who does but also feel sympathy for those who do resort to suicide but yea i don't think someone can know unless they've been there

[AgnesIO]

the people who want to kill themselves obviously have a horrible life and why should they be forced to live through it just because someone else is going to die? maybe the person with the terminal illness had a much better upbringing and outlook on life than the suicidal person. maybe the person is commiting suicide because of a mental illness, or cause they've been raped/abused etc, I really don't think it's fair to say "someone with cancer is dying, u shouldn't be as selfish to kill yourself" when they have legitimate reason to.

This is a fair argument; although I still don't believe in killing oneself (if someone does with a mental illness, I would first question whether the system could have done more to help them). However, I would then still question whether why that person should then go and potentially ruin someone else's life (ie. the train driver) - that to me, would be a selfish decision (if we are going by the exact definition of selfish). I don't necessarily think suicide in itself is a selfish act, although I don't think it should ever be the answer (and if the suicidal person thinks it is, I believe someone has failed in their job somewhere - at least in many cases)


pulling yourself out of depression and mental illness is a seriously difficult thing to do and most people don't or never fully do. getting rid of the pain once and for all sometimes seems the only choice because u don't see it ever getting better. only a lucky few gain the resources and support to pull through but when you're in the position of the suicidal person, it is very hard for yourself or someone else to convince you otherwise. you have to constantly pull yourself back up and generally need some level of support to do so, not something everyone has. i rly don't think anyone who hasn't been in that situation can understand. i remember hearing about depression when i was young and never connected with the whole 'u think it won't get better' thing until i went through it, to me it was just empty words i didnt take seriously and would say the same as everyone else "it always gets better!!11" "oh it's not that bad you're not kids in africa!!11". it is a v.v.v. difficult thing to go through and even harder to beat, i commend anyone who does but also feel sympathy for those who do resort to suicide but yea i don't think someone can know unless they've been there

I guess the only main comment here would be the debate question is something that is commonly put across, and in this instance is on an internet forum; therefore it will simply always be the case that the majority of the forum have never had depression/any other reason to kill themselves, and I think there has only been one(?) suicide on this forum (the kid who got loans, payments built up etc) - although I think that simply showed the serious flaws in pay day loan companies.

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someone committing suicide must have it REAL bad (or be v. impulsive) cause it's not easy to think ok I'm going to jump infront of this train or jump off this cliff and never see anyone again or have a family/career etc i don't think that's any easy decision. I've been through plenty and thought about committing suicide literally every waking second for 3 years (I get relapses but generally my mood is stable now) but never done it (just too scared thankfully) so i have sympathy with someone who does think its SO bad it's the only way. system can't always help u bc that means WANTING help + often depression means u can't even get out of bed to go to doctor or if u do ur too worried to tell them, think they're going to think ur weird or something. plus the system can't always tell if you're depressed, ud be surprised at how many people u know who have or have had depression n u never knew. even ur closest family. hence the 'i didnt read the signs' everyone says after their death. i would say only people on here and 3 friends know bout my depression + that's been 5 years since it started

+ yh I would agree that it's unfair on a train driver or whoever is on the other side. not far from me, someone walked into the middle of the road so they could be hit n die, the driver was so traumatised she ended up doing the same thing :/ it's not fair for the people picking up the pieces (altho often they are the cause ie if they find their relations hung it could have been them who drove them to suicide so we can't always feel bad for the family w.e) but also not fair for a suicidal person to continue feeling depressed every waking moment or for them to be given no sympathy imo.

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If we really go by the dictionary terms, obviously yes it is a selfish act.... but what bothers me that people debate on this topic, and tend to harass people and blame them for being selfish. Especially the "if you wanna do it do it yourself" thing which Stephen wrote was really the most subhuman way to express an opinion.

If you have no idea about mental illnesses and how they affect a person's thinking, I would advice you to stay away from this discussion. Especially oli; you have been proved wrong in this thread (http://www.habboxforum.com/showthread.php?t=785719&page=5) earlier so I would try my best to save myself from further embarrassment if I were you.

[AgnesIO]

If we really go by the dictionary terms, obviously yes it is a selfish act.... but what bothers me that people debate on this topic, and tend to harass people and blame them for being selfish. Especially the "if you wanna do it do it yourself" thing which Stephen wrote was really the most subhuman way to express an opinion.

If you have no idea about mental illnesses and how they affect a person's thinking, I would advice you to stay away from this discussion. Especially @oli (http://www.habboxforum.com/member.php?u=116862); you have been proved wrong in this thread (http://www.habboxforum.com/showthread.php?t=785719&page=5) earlier so I would try my best to save myself from further embarrassment if I were you.

In fairness, if this idea was applied to every topic the only forum that would have more than 5* users in would be the habbo one lol

*five = exaggeration

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In fairness, if this idea was applied to every topic the only forum that would have more than 5* users in would be the habbo one lol

*five = exaggeration

What I'm referring to is "think of the families, thing of these people, those people", "grow a pair" type of comments. Just go to the thread I linked and you'll know what I'm talking about. I think they were a little too far and I found them offensive

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it is selfish in a sense that you leave the remaining problems all to your loved ones. and not selfish in a sense that you finally can put down and leave everything.

[ComaDivine]

it's selfish by definition only. in the end everybody has a right to do as they please with their own lives and no one really has any right to say otherwise. I pretty much believe in live and let live as long as you do not cause intentional or direct harm to others in doing so (and before anyone says anything about how suicide hurts loved ones, I don't think people commit suicide thinking "I can't wait to make my mum cry!").

people who consider committing suicide are likely suffering extreme emotional pain that they can see no end to, and no other person is in any rightful place to judge them for their actions or thoughts, especially if they have never been in such a position themselves. a suicidal state is a state of total delusion and darkness where one believes that there is nothing left in the world to live for and that it would be easier if they simply ceased to exist. this idea might sound ridiculous to those of completely sound mind and emotion, but it's a very real and very scary prospect that preys on the minds of many who just cannot deal with life anymore. it's an extremely sad thing, because there is ALWAYS something to live for and there is ALWAYS at least a chance that things will get better, but not everybody can be convinced of that.

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it's selfish by definition only. in the end everybody has a right to do as they please with their own lives and no one really has any right to say otherwise. I pretty much believe in live and let live as long as you do not cause intentional or direct harm to others in doing so (and before anyone says anything about how suicide hurts loved ones, I don't think people commit suicide thinking "I can't wait to make my mum cry!").

people who consider committing suicide are likely suffering extreme emotional pain that they can see no end to, and no other person is in any rightful place to judge them for their actions or thoughts, especially if they have never been in such a position themselves. a suicidal state is a state of total delusion and darkness where one believes that there is nothing left in the world to live for and that it would be easier if they simply ceased to exist. this idea might sound ridiculous to those of completely sound mind and emotion, but it's a very real and very scary prospect that preys on the minds of many who just cannot deal with life anymore. it's an extremely sad thing, because there is ALWAYS something to live for and there is ALWAYS at least a chance that things will get better, but not everybody can be convinced of that.
completely agree. + I get rly sick of people saying think about your family, if they thought about me I wouldn't have 90% of the problems that caused me depression.. even now that ive mostly recovered, the only problem in my life that can push me into suicidal tendencies is members of my family, especially 1. so im sick of hearing this crap about families going to be distraught, not every family care and love each other + if they do, they should show it when they're alive not dead.