School children as young as 8 told they would be 'racist' for missing school trip

[-:Undertaker:-]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/education/educationnews/10468353/School-children-as-young-as-8-told-they-would-be-labelled-racist-for-missing-school-trip.html

School children as young as 8 told they would be labelled 'racist' for missing school trip

Parents have criticised the school's "ludicrous" threats and accused it of trying to blackmail them


http://i.telegraph.co.uk/multimedia/archive/02743/littleton-green_2743305b.jpg
Parents Donna Ward, left, and Tracy Ward, right, with their children (left to right) Caitlyn Lakin aged 8, Chloe Ward aged 8 and Harry Lakin aged 9 outside the school


Parents have criticised a school after children as young as eight were told they would be punished for racism if they did not attend a religious workshop about Islam.

Angry mums and dads were sent a letter by Littleton Green Community School, in Huntingdon, Staffordshire, warning their children would be considered racist if they did not go on the school trip.

The visit to Staffordshire University - for Year 4 and Year 6 pupils - had been arranged as part of the children's "cultural education" on November 27.

Headteacher Lynn Small wrote to parents and said if kids did not attend a "racial discrimination note" would be made on the pupil's records and would remain there for their school careers.

On top of that, they were also ordered to pay £5 towards the cost of the trip.

Parents have criticised the school's "ludicrous" threats and accused the school of trying to blackmail them.

Stacy Waldron, 26, who has an eight-year-old daughter at the school, said: "I feel my child will be racist if I don't allow her to go.

"This is my choice, not hers, and she shouldn't have to pay for it."

Mum-of-four Tracy Ward added: "I was shocked by the letter. To be told my kids have got to attend this workshop is disgusting.

"Everyone should have a choice but that's my opinion and I don't want a stain on my kids' record as a result.

"They are not old enough to be called racist."

Her sister Donna, whose daughter also attends the school, said: "It's not our religion. We should have a right to stop our children going."

Another parent Gillian Claridge, 55, added: "To be told we had to pay for the trip as well was just a kick in the teeth.

"How dare they threaten to brand the children racist at such a young age. Its going to make them feel like little criminals.

"The very nature of religion is all about choice - on this occasion they were not being given any choice at all.

"It was draconian move and its left a lot of parents fuming."

Around 100 pupils across four years were expected to take part in the course - which would have involved them being shown Islamic artefacts.

But after parents contacted the school they were then forced to make an embarrassing U-turn and withdraw the threat after council chiefs intervened.

A letter from the head to parents apologised for "inaccuracies" in the previous correspondence.

In the letter Mrs Small asked parents to "on reflection disregard a section from the earlier letter".

South Staffordshire MP Gavin Williamson slammed the original move - labelling it "bonkers".

He said: "The idea of attaching a 'racial discrimination note' to children's education records saying it will remain on their file for the duration for their school career seems unfair, particularly when it is no the child's decision whether or not he or she attends.

"It seems a very heavy-handed approach."

Defending the decision Mrs Small said that exposing the pupils to other faiths was part of the school's statutory duty.

She said: "We are a mainly Christian school, but we have to cover at least one other religion as part of the national curriculum.This visit is part of that.

"They would not be taking part in any religious practices. We have had similar workshops on a variety of religions in the past - including one on Islam with no problems at all and the children have absolutely loved it.

"We have pupils and teachers at the school who belong to the Islam faith and it is right for the children to understand and appreciate their faith as well as their own."

The school, which was told it "required improvement" in an Ofsted report earlier this year caters for 341 pupils aged between 3 and 11.

A spokesperson for Staffordshire County Council said: "This is a school matter and the council was only contacted once the letter had been sent.

"We believe it is important for children to find out more about different cultures.

"However parents also have a right to withdraw their children from religious activities.

"Clearly it is not appropriate for comments about racial discrimination to be made in these circumstances."

A few things.

Firstly, Islam is not a race. Maybe as a headmistress she should have known that basic fact.

Secondly, again it goes to show how certain words are being used in this country to shut down debates on a whole manner of topics. Racist of course is the most common one - raise concerns about mass immigration and the crime is brings and you are labelled a racist. Have rational criticisms of Islam do you? Islamophobe. Think we should be running our own country rather than have it run by Brussels? Xenophobe. Little Englander.

I brush those silly words away when people dare raise them against my rational points of view because it's nothing but slander and they're trying to shut you up. Never accept it.

What else? That's right, why are 8 year olds being brainwashed on Islam? I wonder if the workshop they're attending has anything on the views and treatment of Islam towards homosexuality or women. Or Jews. Or Christians. Or comics, authors and journalists who make fun of it and subject it to the same comic slander as every other religion recieves.

My children wouldn't be attending ANY of these brainwashing 'workshops' on Islam, Global Warming, Multiculturalism, Nelson Mandela or Sex Education unless they were to be taught the opposing arguments such as the fact that Nelson Mandela was the head of an armed terrorist wing of the ANC that murdered innocent civilians. Or the views of Islam towards Jews and minority Christians. Or the fact that the globe hasn't warmed for 15 years. And if the school wanted, i'd be happy to come in and do a lesson on any one of them.

This idiot mindwarping headmistress should be SACKED. How dare she.

Thoughts?

[Kardan]

I think the argument over it all is getting too complex, at the end of the day, if a parent doesn't want their child to attend a school trip, that should be the end of it. For the school to try and argue otherwise, simply because it's a school trip based on RE, is pretty ridiculous.

Schools should teach about religions, but at primary school it should be kept pretty basic. As you said Undertaker, I doubt they would have portrayed things very accurately, but it's worth noting that in later years that does start to happen. Anyways, that's a side note really. The school is in the wrong here.

[Yawn]

disgusting parents they should be ashamed

http://i.telegraph.co.uk/multimedia/archive/02743/littleton-green_2743305b.jpg

[FlyingJesus]

That is ridiculous but not nearly as ridiculous as those kids' poses

[karter]

the comments on the article are just stupid and narrow minded i am nauseated

[Ardemax]

IT'S POLITICAL CORRECTNESS GONE MAD

[-:Undertaker:-]

the comments on the article are just stupid and narrow minded i am nauseated

Are my comments and the comments on the article not 'inclusive' enough for you? Do my comments and the comments on the article 'alienate' and 'divide' the wider 'community'? Should the mothers and fathers (opps, I meant progenitor 1 and progenitor 2) at this school be less 'close minded' to different 'lifestylesssss'? :rolleyes:

You can always go and read the Guardian or New Statesman where they grovel to and slobber all over the 'Religion of Peace' if you don't like it. Many holier than thou comments there for you to read and make yourself feel morally superior over.

[Kardan]

Are my comments and the comments on the article not 'inclusive' enough for you? Do my comments and the comments on the article 'alienate' and 'divide' the wider 'community'? Should the mothers and fathers (opps, I meant progenitor 1 and progenitor 2) at this school be less 'close minded' to different 'lifestylesssss'? :rolleyes:

You can always go and read the Guardian or New Statesman where they grovel to and slobber all over the 'Religion of Peace' if you don't like it. Many holier than thou comments there for you to read and make yourself feel morally superior over.

To be fair, the comments are pretty absurd.

"This is the reason why so many of our children can't read or write when they leave school"

Ah, of course! The reason kids can't read or write is because they have to go on school trips that teach about Islam. It's a good thing I learnt to read by not going on those school trips!

I mean, seriously? What are people even thinking these days?

[Yawn]

im going to a mosque for a fieldtrip soon :)

[-:Undertaker:-]

To be fair, the comments are pretty absurd.

"This is the reason why so many of our children can't read or write when they leave school"

Ah, of course! The reason kids can't read or write is because they have to go on school trips that teach about Islam. It's a good thing I learnt to read by not going on those school trips!

I mean, seriously? What are people even thinking these days?

I think that's known as a generalistic comment with some humour thrown in.

Only could somebody with their head screwed on backwards comment on a story like this and have a go at the comments by people supporting the parents against this nutjob headmistress. But I guess i'm just not as enlightened or as 'tolerantttttt'.

Ironically it's always those who pretend to be tolerant and open minded who are usually the most close minded and intolerant of any views that differ from their own - as was confirmed the other day when I attended a debate in university on free speech where I sat and watched an audience of young so-called liberals argue that free speech ought to be banned. I bet karter thinks the parents are neatherals and the kids should be forced by law to attend this workshop. Am I right?

A world upside down, it really is.

[Kardan]

I think that's known as a generalistic comment with some humour thrown in.

Only could somebody with their head screwed on backwards comment on a story like this and have a go at the comments by people supporting the parents against this nutjob headmistress. But I guess i'm just not as enlightened or as 'tolerantttttt'.

Ironically it's always those who pretend to be tolerant and open minded who are usually the most close minded and intolerant of any views that differ from their own - as was confirmed the other day when I attended a debate in university on free speech where I sat and watched an audience of young so-called liberals argue that free speech ought to be banned. I bet karter thinks the parents are neatherals and the kids should be forced by law to attend this workshop. Am I right?

A world upside down, it really is.

I don't know, maybe asking karter; would be a good idea. I just agree with him that some of the comments on there are pretty extreme...

[FlyingJesus]

Are my comments and the comments on the article not 'inclusive' enough for you? Do my comments and the comments on the article 'alienate' and 'divide' the wider 'community'? Should the mothers and fathers (opps, I meant progenitor 1 and progenitor 2) at this school be less 'close minded' to different 'lifestylesssss'? :rolleyes:

You can always go and read the Guardian or New Statesman where they grovel to and slobber all over the 'Religion of Peace' if you don't like it. Many holier than thou comments there for you to read and make yourself feel morally superior over.

Don't think he actually said any of that, nor was he referring to your comments. Pretty sure he was on about comments on the site like

"Tell the TRUTH about Islam you despicable traitors!" (after spouting lies about it)
"Barbaric Islam is the radical OPPOSITE of Judaism and Christianity! God's BIBLICAL requirement for ALL humanity is KINDNESS" (not realising that they have the same deity)
"How many Allah u Akbars does one need to hear to know that Islam and democracy are not compatible? The Imams say it. The Quran says it. The followers that kill, rape and maim say it. What more does one need to know" (believing Middle Eastern politics actually follows Islam properly and extremists are the norm)
"18 years abroad serving this country only to return 2 years ago to find it had been over run by multiculturalist scum" (frankly just racist)
"This medieval, misogynistic collection of fairy tales and lies is 10 times worse than Nazism" (errr)
"Islam is a ideologically supremacist death cult" (obviously a true scholar here)

and many more. Those are not open-minded opinions but close-minded and very dangerous lies

[-:Undertaker:-]

Don't think he actually said any of that, nor was he referring to your comments. Pretty sure he was on about comments on the site like

"Tell the TRUTH about Islam you despicable traitors!" (after spouting lies about it)

And what were those?


"Barbaric Islam is the radical OPPOSITE of Judaism and Christianity! God's BIBLICAL requirement for ALL humanity is KINDNESS" (not realising that they have the same deity)

So you claim Islam is as soft, trouble-free and cuddlesome as Judaism and Christianity?

It's exactly this sort of whitewashing why I wouldn't want my kids to be taken to one of these workshops.


"How many Allah u Akbars does one need to hear to know that Islam and democracy are not compatible? The Imams say it. The Quran says it. The followers that kill, rape and maim say it. What more does one need to know" (believing Middle Eastern politics actually follows Islam properly and extremists are the norm)

Again, the same as above. Islam has very deep, very deep problems within it and it's simply a lie to brush that aside and say that every religion has extremists within because Islam outstrips them all by miles.


"18 years abroad serving this country only to return 2 years ago to find it had been over run by multiculturalist scum" (frankly just racist)

Yawn, multiculturalism isn't multiracialism.

Like the headmistress you too don't even know your terms and meanings.


"This medieval, misogynistic collection of fairy tales and lies is 10 times worse than Nazism" (errr)
"Islam is a ideologically supremacist death cult" (obviously a true scholar here)

Fair enough on those.


and many more. Those are not open-minded opinions but close-minded and very dangerous lies

You've picked the worst out of 250 odd vastly rational comments, and out of those comments only a handful are actually silly comments. Well done for that.

[FlyingJesus]

If you think that Judaism and Christianity are soft, trouble-free, and cuddlesome then you really need to read a book or turn the news on some time. Obama is openly Christian and yet personally assassinates anyone he thinks is troublesome using remote drones, also killing thousands of innocent civilians and children. As for Judaism, you need only look at the atrocities of Israel to see that there are huge problems there. The Crusades? Obv never happened. Moorish genocide in Spain by the Inquisition? Not a problem. A handful of angry extremists with no governmental power taking it upon themselves to attack people? ISLAM IS A PROBLEM DOWN TO THE CORE.

And yes obviously I picked the bad ones, that was kinda the point. I was showing what type of comments Karter was referring to

[-:Undertaker:-]

If you think that Judaism and Christianity are soft, trouble-free, and cuddlesome then you really need to read a book or turn the news on some time. Obama is openly Christian and yet personally assassinates anyone he thinks is troublesome using remote drones, also killing thousands of innocent civilians and children.

We agree on the stupidity of Obama but we seemingly don't agree that the United States is waging a religious war. The extremism in the mosques across the western world (funded by Saudi oil money) is a huge problem, even Tony Blair has admitted it in relation to the Woolwich attack (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/terrorism-in-the-uk/10094007/Tony-Blair-Woolwich-attack-shows-there-is-a-problem-within-Islam.html). The Arab spring for example and the civil war in Syria now, it's a huge civil war in Islam with different sects of the religion (many extreme and radical) wrestling for control. You just don't see this because when you think Saudi Arabia or Iran you just think it's all about country a hates country b, but this is all religious.


As for Judaism, you need only look at the atrocities of Israel to see that there are huge problems there. The Crusades? Obv never happened. Moorish genocide in Spain by the Inquisition? Not a problem. A handful of angry extremists with no governmental power taking it upon themselves to attack people? ISLAM IS A PROBLEM DOWN TO THE CORE.

And yes obviously I picked the bad ones, that was kinda the point. I was showing what type of comments Karter was referring to

It's more than a handful dear, do wake up and smell the coffee. Whether it's the Saudi-funded mosques in the west pumping out Waahabi hatred or whether it's the radicalisation of Islam world over (Brunei recently announced the beginning of the implementation of Sharia Law) - to compare Islam to Christianity and Juadism is ridiculous.

I mean just take your attack on Israel (and I suspect we'll agree on many points) - you cannot deny at the end of the day that Israel is a leading example and a shining light when compared to it's Islamic neighbours. I'd rather be an Arab, gay or a woman in Israel anyday than be in a muslim country.

I'm actually a fan of Islam and believe the Middle East would be a moral desert without it, but I am not going to sit here and pretend that Islam is on a par with Christianity and Juadism in the year 2013.

[FlyingJesus]

We agree on the stupidity of Obama but we seemingly don't agree that the United States is waging a religious war. The extremism in the mosques across the western world (funded by Saudi oil money) is a huge problem, even Tony Blair has admitted it in relation to the Woolwich attack (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/terrorism-in-the-uk/10094007/Tony-Blair-Woolwich-attack-shows-there-is-a-problem-within-Islam.html). The Arab spring for example and the civil war in Syria now, it's a huge civil war in Islam with different sects of the religion (many extreme and radical) wrestling for control. You just don't see this because when you think Saudi Arabia or Iran you just think it's all about country a hates country b, but this is all religious.

Tony Blair that well-known truth teller. ps never said extremism doesn't exist


It's more than a handful dear, do wake up and smell the coffee. Whether it's the Saudi-funded mosques in the west pumping out Waahabi hatred or whether it's the radicalisation of Islam world over (Brunei recently announced the beginning of the implementation of Sharia Law) - to compare Islam to Christianity and Juadism is ridiculous.

I mean just take your attack on Israel (and I suspect we'll agree on many points) - you cannot deny at the end of the day that Israel is a leading example and a shining light when compared to it's Islamic neighbours. I'd rather be an Arab, gay or a woman in Israel anyday than be in a muslim country.

If by shining light you mean a beacon for terrorist ideals (http://electronicintifada.net/content/israel-responsible-price-tag-attacks-not-just-few-settler-extremists/11852) then sure. Murder, arson, torture, all unpunished because it's sanctioned and even ordered by those in power there. I don't personally want to live the way fundamentalist Muslims do but then I don't want to live the way most white Christian Britons do either, wouldn't suggest that being a Christian makes one a bad person just because the WBC exists though

[-:Undertaker:-]

Tony Blair that well-known truth teller. ps never said extremism doesn't exist

Indeed, but he's right on this one.

But if you admit Islam has huge and very deep problems with extreme doctrines being very popular throughout the muslim world (a problem Christianity and Juadism do not have on such a scale) then we agree completely.

My point is, don't sit here and pretend the problems in Islam are confined a tiny minority in the same way that the problems in Christianity are confined to a very small minority.


If by shining light you mean a beacon for terrorist ideals (http://electronicintifada.net/content/israel-responsible-price-tag-attacks-not-just-few-settler-extremists/11852) then sure. Murder, arson, torture, all unpunished because it's sanctioned and even ordered by those in power there. I don't personally want to live the way fundamentalist Muslims do but then I don't want to live the way most white Christian Britons do either, wouldn't suggest that being a Christian makes one a bad person just because the WBC exists though

If you were an arab, gay, a woman or - to pick one of your favourite causes - transgender, would you rather live in Israel or a muslim country like Palestine?

[FlyingJesus]

Indeed, but he's right on this one.

"X is wrong unless they agree with me"


But if you admit Islam has huge and very deep problems with extreme doctrines being very popular throughout the muslim world (a problem Christianity and Juadism do not have on such a scale) then we agree completely.

My point is, don't sit here and pretend the problems in Islam are confined a tiny minority in the same way that the problems in Christianity are confined to a very small minority.

And MY point was that extreme doctrines are a huge problem in Christianity and Judaism, not that Islam doesn't have problems. You completely ignored the list of evil deeds done in those names (and even keep pretending that the terrorist state of Israel isn't a big deal) and went straight back to talking about what a small (yes, it is small) number of Muslims do


If you were an arab, gay, a woman or - to pick one of your favourite causes - transgender, would you rather live in Israel or a muslim country like Palestine?

Genuinely would make no difference since both are places of extreme danger to everyone regardless of who/what you are. Certain things not being specifically illegal in Israel doesn't seem to stop them from being punishable by torture and death at the hands of the military police who know that they'll never be reprimanded for it (http://www.theguardian.com/world/2005/nov/16/israel2)

[karter]

Are my comments and the comments on the article not 'inclusive' enough for you? Do my comments and the comments on the article 'alienate' and 'divide' the wider 'community'? Should the mothers and fathers (opps, I meant progenitor 1 and progenitor 2) at this school be less 'close minded' to different 'lifestylesssss'? :rolleyes:

You can always go and read the Guardian or New Statesman where they grovel to and slobber all over the 'Religion of Peace' if you don't like it. Many holier than thou comments there for you to read and make yourself feel morally superior over.

I love this so much because I said nothing and you just guessed what my opinion was.
First of all let me clear it up, I don't agree with the 'Religion of Peace' statement in the first place so just stop shoving that dry ass phrase in front of me because I know that many elements of Islam are not peaceful and morally quite wrong. I live in a country where there are 150 million Muslims so believe me, I know.

Examples of some of the comments which you might agree with but are genuinely messed up.


There is no way any child of mine would be allowed to go on a field trip that had anything to do with Islam. End of. Call me racist if you wish though I have no colour bar whatsoever.


Well, choose a religion that does not promote the killing all those who do not believe in their religion. There are loads of non-Christian ones to choose from Bhuddism, Hinduism, Shinto even. Why choose the one that most people feel is a threat to both our society and culture as well as the country itself? Look at what islam has done to Christians in the Middle East, even Christian priests get their throats cut by them just for being Christian, churches are burned down - because they are Christian.



Religion is a human disease and our children should be innoculated against it.


Aah yes, intelligence oozing out of every single comment above :rolleyes:. Now here's what's important - People have every right to follow whatever religion they are following no matter how oppressive it might seem to a second person, you however should learn that it is neither your business and nor an opportunity to determine what's right and what's wrong. I strongly despised many elements of Islam but I overcame my narrow mindedness to FINALLY shut up about it and FINALLY realize that your opinion is ******

You can rant about Islam and immigration all you want, I don't care but please don't live in a delusion that you have some kind of lofty evolved way of thinking. Of course forcing kids to go to a mosque for a field trip is wrong, but campaigning against this at this level which obviously brings in a lot of religious hate ain't right either? I now am expecting a reply filled with youtube videos on how Islam is oppressive some blah speech by a white guy. But you know what my favourite thing is? That you will never identify with the real issues. You will never know how kids grow up in Muslim homes bearing the tags of 'oppressed' or 'primitive' and you will never know how people have to deal with shame just for following their religion. So yeah that's why I am not taking this crap coming from a white male.

(I believe) There is no harm in religious studies and these kinds of field trips so that kids don't end up being prejudiced jerks like their parents. A child will not turn to terrorism or convert to Islam if he/she visits a mosque. Minorities might finally feel a little more accepted. There is no harm. Sorry for challenging your opinion and sorry for having an opinion that differs from yours but please note that your opinion is vulnerable to criticism and is a very ****** opinion.

[Kardan]

Indeed, but he's right on this one.

But if you admit Islam has huge and very deep problems with extreme doctrines being very popular throughout the muslim world (a problem Christianity and Juadism do not have on such a scale) then we agree completely.

My point is, don't sit here and pretend the problems in Islam are confined a tiny minority in the same way that the problems in Christianity are confined to a very small minority.



If you were an arab, gay, a woman or - to pick one of your favourite causes - transgender, would you rather live in Israel or a muslim country like Palestine?

Please do explain to me how the majority of Muslims have these problems you are talking about. I would love to argue that it is in fact a minority.

Oh, and great poster karter;

[-:Undertaker:-]

"X is wrong unless they agree with me"

He usually is wrong.


And MY point was that extreme doctrines are a huge problem in Christianity and Judaism, not that Islam doesn't have problems. You completely ignored the list of evil deeds done in those names (and even keep pretending that the terrorist state of Israel isn't a big deal) and went straight back to talking about what a small (yes, it is small) number of Muslims do

Have I at all claimed that Christianity and Judaism are completely free of problems? No. I have made the very rational and coherant argument that Islam has and is facing much bigger problems than Christianity or Judaism are.


Genuinely would make no difference since both are places of extreme danger to everyone regardless of who/what you are. Certain things not being specifically illegal in Israel doesn't seem to stop them from being punishable by torture and death at the hands of the military police who know that they'll never be reprimanded for it (http://www.theguardian.com/world/2005/nov/16/israel2)

Then your full of rubbish because you know you'd pick Israel if you were arab/gay/a woman/trans. Israel, for all it's faults, is a beacon of humanity and decency in Middle East.

I think it's been pointed out time and time again that arabs living in Israel actually have more rights and more freedom than they do if they were living in any of the surrounding muslim countries.


I love this so much because I said nothing and you just guessed what my opinion was.
First of all let me clear it up, I don't agree with the 'Religion of Peace' statement in the first place so just stop shoving that dry ass phrase in front of me because I know that many elements of Islam are not peaceful and morally quite wrong. I live in a country where there are 150 million Muslims so believe me, [B]I know.

Well at least you'll admit Islam has very serious problems by discarding that silly phrase that I too feel is a whitewash, unlike Tom here who seems to be hellbent on comparing Judaism in Israel with Islam in the Middle East when the gulf is so deep between the two comparisons.


Examples of some of the comments which you might agree with but are genuinely messed up.

The middle comment has truth to it, absolutely.

As I keep repeating over and over, Islam has serious problems going on at the moment which no other religion is facing on the same scale and scope. Why are we having such a trouble in this thread accepting that?


Aah yes, intelligence oozing out of every single comment above :rolleyes:. Now here's what's important - People have every right to follow whatever religion they are following no matter how oppressive it might seem to a second person, you however should learn that it is neither your business and nor an opportunity to determine what's right and what's wrong. I strongly despised many elements of Islam but I overcame my narrow mindedness to FINALLY shut up about it and FINALLY realize that your opinion is ******

Where have I stated people don't have a right to follow a religion I might deem oppressive? Being socially conservative myself I actually think we could do with some Islamic morality over in this country - especially when it comes to sex and relationships.

Do you even understand what my opinion on Islam is?


You can rant about Islam and immigration all you want, I don't care but please don't live in a delusion that you have some kind of lofty evolved way of thinking. Of course forcing kids to go to a mosque for a field trip is wrong, but campaigning against this at this level which obviously brings in a lot of religious hate ain't right either? I now am expecting a reply filled with youtube videos on how Islam is oppressive some blah speech by a white guy. But you know what my favourite thing is? That you will never identify with the real issues. You will never know how kids grow up in Muslim homes bearing the tags of 'oppressed' or 'primitive' and you will never know how people have to deal with shame just for following their religion. So yeah that's why I am not taking this crap coming from a white male.

Eh? what's race got to do with this?

As for the feelings of muslims and the media, i'm sorry but this is what Islam always does. In societies where it is the minority, it takes great offence at the smallest things which don't bother other religions (the Dutch cartoon saga for example) and poses as the oppressed minority. In societies where Islam is the majority, well we know what happens if you are a Christian, Jewish, gay, a woman or transgendered - I don't think I need to elaborate on that point much more.

This is why it always amazes me that the left or so-called liberals will utterly go to town on the Roman Catholic Church or Church of England on homosexuality, but on the other hand will jump to the defence of Islam whenever it is dared criticised - despite the fact that Islam is probably the worst religion and least accepting on the subject of homosexuality.


(I believe) There is no harm in religious studies and these kinds of field trips so that kids don't end up being prejudiced jerks like their parents. A child will not turn to terrorism or convert to Islam if he/she visits a mosque.

Who said they would?


Minorities might finally feel a little more accepted. There is no harm. Sorry for challenging your opinion and sorry for having an opinion that differs from yours but please note that your opinion is vulnerable to criticism and is a very ****** opinion.

I don't think you've actually put across an opinion other than one long sob story about how followers of a religion might feel if radical parts and sects of their religion are criticised.

Well boo bloody hoo.

- - - Updated - - -


Please do explain to me how the majority of Muslims have these problems you are talking about. I would love to argue that it is in fact a minority.

Oh, and great poster karter;

I didn't say it was a majority, I said it wasn't a tiny minority - look at the Islamic world right now. It's ablaze - not because of some mythical struggle between democracy and oppressive regimes, it's ablaze because of the internal struggle within the religious sects of Islam for control of the Syria-Iraq-Kuwait region.

[FlyingJesus]

Thanks for telling me how I think and yet again ignoring everything said to you in order to repeat your nonsense, appreciated. If you think Israel has any sort of positive rights record you have no place in a discussion like this

Also stop pretending that I've said Islam has no problems when I clearly haven't; I know lying about these matters comes naturally to you but it's infuriating enough trying to deal with your complete lack of knowledge on the area let alone adding misrepresentation of my replies into it

[karter]

Of course, it's always a 'sob story' when you ain't the victim.

It's a sob story when a petty issue like this ignites into religious hate against their religion
It's a sob story when they feel alienated whenever the topic of immigration is brought up
It's a sob story when they feel hurt for being stereotyped as a typical intolerant Arab
It's a sob story when they object when they're called foreigners
It's a sob story when mosques are vandalized and when they take offence
It's a sob story when they are not even welcome in the discussion on their own religion
It's a sob story when Quran is burnt and national coverage is being given on it with crowds cheering and supporting it


All I can say is THANK GOD I am lucky to live in an area that is still British - much like all the politicians who claim to love 'diversity' but who don't live in Bradford, Tower Hamlets and Luton and instead live in culturally British, majority-white areas where they are totally insulated from the effects of mass immigration.

Those who can afford to flee these non-British areas and do, well who can blame them? It's the people who are left behind (mainly the old and the poorest) who I feel deeply sorry for.

*waits for somebody to call me a waycist*

This however, is not a sob story. Immigration is a big issue which needs to be dealt with asap

[AgnesIO]

Have you actually read the original letter @-:Undertaker:- (http://www.habboxforum.com/member.php?u=24233)?

The trip goes to Staffordshire University; not a mosque. The trip is for a variety of religions; not just islam. I mean sure, have these over the top views; but don't make something up.

The letter doesn't state; "We are going on a school trip to a mosque, to study Islam. If you do not go you clearly hate Islam and are therefore racist."

However, I do agree it is ludicrous to suggest anyone is racist for not going on a school trip (although the people in the original photo look common as muck).

[-:Undertaker:-]

This however, is not a sob story. Immigration is a big issue which needs to be dealt with asap

You can say that again. :P

Culturally those areas I mentioned are not culturally British and are totally seperate to British society. I have argued time and time again on these boards for controlled immigration which would hasten integration.


Have you actually read the original letter @-:Undertaker:- (http://www.habboxforum.com/member.php?u=24233)?

The trip goes to Staffordshire University; not a mosque. The trip is for a variety of religions; not just islam. I mean sure, have these over the top views; but don't make something up.

The letter doesn't state; "We are going on a school trip to a mosque, to study Islam. If you do not go you clearly hate Islam and are therefore racist."

However, I do agree it is ludicrous to suggest anyone is racist for not going on a school trip (although the people in the original photo look common as muck).

Did I say they were visiting a mosque?

I said what I know to be true from my own school experience, my cousins and sister, that often these trips or studies are whitewashed so that only one side is given - take Nelson Mandela as the prime example. My little cousin came home gushing over Nelson Mandela, little did she know about the campaign of terror that he and his armed ANC wing carried out against non-political innocents.

I have no problem with these subjects being taught, provided all the facts are disclosed just as I would expect the horrid General Dyer massacre and slavery to be taught when the British Empire is being discussed in the classroom.

[GommeInc]

It's not racist so this whole article is pretty worthless. As interesting as it may or may not be to attend a workshop on Islam (I would be interested as it sounds quite enlightening), it's down to the parents to allow their children to go on day trips and is a common policy. For some reason it seems to have been lost on this headmistress. Also, labelling children as racists for not attending a trip is technically against the law and the parents could take her to court for slander, libel and defamation (although the latter requires it to be published to a 3rd party and libel needs it written down, slander is spoken word).

If this is true (and I often take the media with a pinch of salt), she seems a bit of a moron making threatening accusations, especially to children. Learning about Islam isn't a necessity for the curriculum. It's purely for interest and if the parents and the children have no interest then that's their decision.

[karter]

I have no problem with these subjects being taught, provided all the facts are disclosed just as I would expect the horrid General Dyer massacre and slavery to be taught when the British Empire is being discussed in the classroom.

Not on topic but is this true that this wasn't taught? Geez that's some biased education

[AgnesIO]

Not on topic but is this true that this wasn't taught? Geez that's some biased education

It is taught, he was just saying he expects it to be (ie. Both sides of the story should always be looked at).

Sent from my HTC One X

[AgnesIO]

It's not racist so this whole article is pretty worthless. As interesting as it may or may not be to attend a workshop on Islam (I would be interested as it sounds quite enlightening), it's down to the parents to allow their children to go on day trips and is a common policy. For some reason it seems to have been lost on this headmistress. Also, labelling children as racists for not attending a trip is technically against the law and the parents could take her to court for slander, libel and defamation (although the latter requires it to be published to a 3rd party and libel needs it written down, slander is spoken word).

If this is true (and I often take the media with a pinch of salt), she seems a bit of a moron making threatening accusations, especially to children. Learning about Islam isn't a necessity for the curriculum. It's purely for interest and if the parents and the children have no interest then that's their decision.

The trip was not about Islam...

Sent from my HTC One X

[GommeInc]

The trip was not about Islam...

Sent from my HTC One X
Doesn't matter, you still mustn't label children as racist and force them to go on a school trip. Parents have the final say, they're the legal guardians.

[Adam]

All religion is ********.

I refused to attend RE as a kid, my choice no?

[FlyingJesus]

So you refused to learn about something and then think yourself qualified to have a genuine opinion on it, I see

[AgnesIO]

Doesn't matter, you still mustn't label children as racist and force them to go on a school trip. Parents have the final say, they're the legal guardians.

I totally agree. But it would be preferable if people didn't jump on the anti-Islam band wagon without actually having a clue what the story is about.

[-:Undertaker:-]

I totally agree. But it would be preferable if people didn't jump on the anti-Islam band wagon without actually having a clue what the story is about.

Not sure anybody actually did that.

[AgnesIO]

Not sure anybody actually did that.

Anyone who jumped to the conclusion that the letter was branding people racist for "not attending an Islamic workshop" (or something along those lines) evidently jumped onto the bandwagon.

I AGREE the racist shout is ridiculous, but if anyone actually bothered to read the letter they would see it is a general RE trip, not one focussing on Islam.

[GommeInc]

I totally agree. But it would be preferable if people didn't jump on the anti-Islam band wagon without actually having a clue what the story is about.
It wasn't necessarily band-wagoning as that involves usually being in support of something for acceptance or to feel part of a community/group of people without really caring about the topic. If anything it's falling for exaggerated claims like the one in this article :P

[Sanwhiches]

SHAME TO THEM

[Yawn]

SHAME TO THEM

http://i.telegraph.co.uk/multimedia/archive/02743/littleton-green_2743305b.jpg