UKIP leader Nigel Farage and Euro MPs pocket £800k in expenses

[Ardemax]

Read it here: http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/ukip-leader-nigel-farage-euro-3012708

[FlyingJesus]

Loving how all the pro-UKIP comments are YEAH BUT THE OTHERS DO IT TOO which is kinda not the point of the entire article

[-:Undertaker:-]

This story is as old as the hills (5 years old now actually) and has been debunked as such - indeed one of the Labour MPs who kept trying to compare this story with the MPs expenses scandal was recently jailed for genuine fraud of the taxpayer (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-25492017).

Anywho, reason why this isn't the same is because EU allowances (not expenses as the Mirror claims) like this go towards office staff, public information and research. MEPs - because they have such stupidly large constituencies as a result of the PR list system - have access to EU funding in which they can pay office staff and publish leaflets etc.

Listen to the audio clip below to hear Farage grilled on this...



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6UsmeYDHv5Y

Unlike the expenses at Westminster where MPs were pocketing the expenses and making false claims, Farage and the rest of UKIP haven't personally benefitted from the allowances - otherwise they would have been investigated by OLAF by now and thrown into prison like the Labour MP Denis MacShane recently was.

I was one of the most vocal on here over the MPs expenses scandal and if they were fiddling the allowances system (as former UKIP MEP Tom Wise was (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tom_Wise) - and he was thrown out of the party and found guilty in court) then I wouldn't vote for them. Simple really. Always remember UKIP MEPs are the ones campaigning to be made redundant: and I hope they're successful. Personally I think it's fantastic that we can claim back some of our own money from the EU and use it to campaign to get out of the EU - which will be a saving of tens of billions to the UK.

The Labour-supporting Daily Mirror really needs to try harder - wonder if this (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wythenshawe_and_Sale_East_by-election,_2014) is what has got them worried?

[FlyingJesus]

Yeah I bet there was no personal benefit in giving his wife 30k and the same for "general expenditure" on top of his 79k salary. The only difference between allowances and expenses is that there are set things you can use allowances for, it's still taking money for bonuses way out of proportion to actual cost. The rest of your post has literally nothing to do with any of this so not sure why it's there

[-:Undertaker:-]

Yeah I bet there was no personal benefit in giving his wife 30k and the same for "general expenditure" on top of his 79k salary. The only difference between allowances and expenses is that there are set things you can use allowances for, it's still taking money for bonuses way out of proportion to actual cost. The rest of your post has literally nothing to do with any of this so not sure why it's there

Haven't taken in anything I have just said.

Euro MEPs get more money in allowances than MPs because the constituencies are bigger as they are done on a PR system rather than FPTP. So rather than having to provide information/answer queries from 60,000 people, they've got to cover a few hundred thousand people meaning they have to have an office, with staff to run it. It's pretty simple although again - it's one of the reasons i'm now against PR and for FPTP.

Farage used to work in the City on easy money - he only came into politics over one issue and worked two jobs (a part time city job) until the early 2000's when he had to pack it in because the workload was becoming too much. As he's said before he's actually taken a pay cut by going into politics and he's campaigning to lose his own job.

There's no issue here. MEPs are entitled to office and campaigning budgets from the EU coffers and UKIP do the same as the other parties in using those funds legally - except UKIP do it to get out of the EU as soon as possible rather than continue the gravytrain. If you disagree with the allowances system then that's fine - but it's legal and thats what it's there to be used for. At least UKIP are using a tiny proportion of the EU propaganda budget to give the other side of the argument - which if they're successful will save us a hell of a lot.

Again, it's a nice try by the Mirror but this was discussed (on this forum too) back in 2009 - had Farage and co done anything along the lines of fraud then OLAF would have investigated.

[FlyingJesus]

No-one's suggesting that it's fraud, have you even read the article?

[-:Undertaker:-]

No-one's suggesting that it's fraud, have you even read the article?

Yes and they're trying to make it out as though it's like the MPs expenses scandal where you had MPs claiming parliamentary money in order to furnish their houses, buy duckhouses and so on - hence the term 'pocket' when most of the UKIP MEPs salaries themselves (I know Stuart Agnew does this with most of his personal £70k+) goes into the party which then goes into campaigning to get us out. The allowances which the article talks about simply goes into funding the party offices of the MEPs which serves a few hundred thousand people.

Considering Farage has been there since before 2000, it's no surprise it's run to such a total. If he was siphoning off money for allowances to buy himself a duckhouse, a new car or some new sunglasses then there would be a story and he'd have to deal with OLAF. But it's not, so there isn't a story.

[FlyingJesus]

That isn't it at all, the story is about the hypocrisy of a group of people saying that the EU squanders British tax money and then taking that same tax money for personal gain. While they're not doing anything illegal (and no-one has suggested that they are) it's dishonest and considering the claims for "subsistence" (ie: plane tickets, hotels, and dining out) are larger than those for "office costs" - £420,000 vs £370,000 - it's quite clearly not going where you think it's going.

Also nope, "Mr Farage’s allowances of £61,065 only includes subsistence for the last six months" which is quite a bit different to 14 years.

[-:Undertaker:-]

That isn't it at all, the story is about the hypocrisy of a group of people saying that the EU squanders British tax money and then taking that same tax money for personal gain. While they're not doing anything illegal (and no-one has suggested that they are) it's dishonest and considering the claims for "subsistence" (ie: plane tickets, hotels, and dining out) are larger than those for "office costs" - £420,000 vs £370,000 - it's quite clearly not going where you think it's going.

Also nope, "Mr Farage’s allowances of £61,065 only includes subsistence for the last six months" which is quite a bit different to 14 years.

None of it is going to personal gain, as I repeated before - the likes of Stuart Agnew MEP also donate a huge proportion of their personal salary to the party to fund campaigning as he is already well off and doesn't need the money. If it was going to personal gain, then again, OLAF would investigate and it'd become a criminal matter.

As for expenses, yes and so? Most companies have expenses just as MEPs do. All expenses must be accounted for and audited by the auditing agency and if they are not then criminal investigations would be brought forth just as they were with the former UKIP MEP Tom Wise who WAS ripping off the taxpayer and using the allowances system for his personal gain rather than using it for office work/campaigning.

If Farage and UKIP were upto no good with the expenses, then OLAF would be down on them like a ton of bricks as the EU/the main three parties would love nothing more than to have their political enemies caught out for fraud with expenses. But again, none of this is the case so it's moot.

I'm quite clear that I think UKIP should use that allowances money that they're legally entitled to use in order to fund a campaign to get us out of the EU (whereas the other parties and the EU Commission spend MILLIONS of our money to fund propaganda campaigns to keep us in the EU) and to have all of the UKIP, Labour, Tory and Liberal Democrat MEPs sacked. I want this upcoming Euro election to be the first and last one I ever have to vote in.

[FlyingJesus]

So you're ok with tax money being used for propaganda as long as it's your propaganda

Again *+*no-one is claiming that they're doing anything illegal*+* so I have no idea why you're mentioning fraud. This is an issue of ethics not law