Teacher Loses Appeal for Headlocking Student in Self Defence; is Consequently Fired.

[Daltron]

http://resources3.news.com.au/images/2014/01/17/1226804/392855-be9e3efc-7e72-11e3-8cdb-58f79d3137a3.jpg

A STUDENT who punched his teacher in the head during class said he's not sorry the man was sacked for putting him in a headlock.

Former Riverstone High School student Jarrad O'Hanlon told The Sunday Telegraph he felt no remorse over the 2011 incident which ended the twenty-year career of teacher Stephen Krix.

Mr Krix, then a probationary science and agriculture teacher, was fired for misconduct for breaking NSW Department of Education and Communities strict guidelines by making physical contact with a student.

Mr O'Hanlon refused to take off his headphones during a science lesson, told the Mr Krix to "f*** off" several times - before punching him when he stood close to the student and refused to move.




Mr Krix lost an appeal against his sacking in the NSW Industrial Relations Commission earlier this month.

The commission found Mr Krix should not have made physical contact with Mr O'Hanlon, despite Mr Krix arguing he was defending himself because Mr O'Hanlon was punching him.

Asked whether it was appropriate to sack Mr Krix and how he should react when a student punched him, a department spokesman said: "action will not be taken against teachers who act reasonably in their conduct while disciplining students".

"Teachers are dismissed in circumstances where their conduct towards students is extreme and could not be considered appropriate given circumstances at the time," the spokesman

Full article here (http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/news/nsw/student-that-punched-a-teacher-who-was-subsequently-fired-for-putting-him-in-a-headlock-feels-no-remorse/story-fni0cx12-1226804394173).


Should teachers have the right to hit students in self defence?

I say yes, in extreme circumstances when you fear for your safety. I consider Jarrad the scum of society, hitting someone who is trying to educate you. Violence at school should not be tolerated by anyone. It's disappointing this teacher was fired for putting him in a headlock but if the facts in the article are true then it seems like the head lock was warranted.

Thoughts?

[Empired]

I think he was right to try and defend himself but perhaps a headlock was a step too far?

I'm appalled that the student doesn't even care he's ended this teacher's career though..

[MKR&*42]

I'm really angsty towards how teachers have such little physical control over students nowadays. It was absolutely acceptable to put him in a headlock considering the student was clearly being both verbally and physically abusive, and the rule on no physical contact whatsoever is a load of bull. If two kids are fighting for example, you use physical contact to separate them so why should it be any different if it's a kid abusing a teacher.

Wtf was he meant to do, just stand there and potentially let the kid beat him up? I genuinely feel so sorry for teachers considering all the crap they have to put up with and they can't even react in self defence it seems^

[GommeInc]

Stupid guidelines. It assumes teachers are no longer human but disposable assets. If you're faced with physical force, what are you going to do? Protect yourself - it's human to do so. The student clearly wasn't traumatised by the event, and should be excluded from school so the teacher can return to thunderous applause from other students who hopefully saw this student as a brat not worth teaching.

[-:Undertaker:-]

I've been clear on this before - I back corporal punishment (the cane) 100%. Look at the breakdown in behaviour in our schools and across youngsters who have no respect for authority. It's time to stop whinging about 'childrens rights' and be more concerned about teaching them right and wrong from a young age.

Until that happens then schools will remain out of control (as many are) and so will crime.

[dirrty]

my teacher hit me once and even though it was a 'joke' "oh stop it, behave!" hit, it actually did hurt lmao, esp since she was built like a lorry.

but yes, a teacher should be able to defend themselves (within reason) when being attacked.

[GommeInc]

my teacher hit me once and even though it was a 'joke' "oh stop it, behave!" hit, it actually did hurt lmao, esp since she was built like a lorry.

but yes, a teacher should be able to defend themselves (within reason) when being attacked.
That's the sad thing - horseplay is perfectly acceptable between humans yet the moment they're in a professional capacity they have to drop the urge to be human. Teachers are humans and can be fun to laugh and joke with, but these days we may as well be taught by mindless drones, and that goes from the teacher's point of view and the students'. It's quite difficult really :/

[lawrawrrr]

I don't think teachers should be granted permission to hit children in self defence; it's a gateway to a lot of risky things, which is why they haven't done it before.

If a situation like this occurs - where a student punches you (I've had this happen, working with troubled children was NOT fun), they should really have acted more professionally, trying to diffuse the situation and send them out, to a corner, call for reinforcement - not retaliate as any grown up is more powerful than a child, a child they're supposed to be LOOKING AFTER as well.

At the end of the day I don't think most teachers would ever get to the stage where they're afraid for their life; only in really bad areas. And in that case, the senior staff members usually intervene - I'm talking threatening with knives and things. In those cases there's usually carefully set out precautions in place - one school I worked at had panic buttons under the table.

Usually you can keep a tab on the bad kids though and be prewarned before they come into your classroom. I doubt this was an isolated incident and I wouldn't blame the teacher for having a bit of a grudge, but at the end of the day I don't think there's any excuse for retaliation.

[Daltron]

but at the end of the day I don't think there's any excuse for retaliation.

So just to clarify if you were a teacher and I were a student and I started punching you continuously you would stand there and be my punching bag? :/

[lawrawrrr]

So just to clarify if you were a teacher and I were a student and I started punching you continuously you would stand there and be my punching bag? :/
No, I would move away from you, tell you to stop, send you outside the room, and if you continued still I would call for some reinforcements from other teachers. It's not acceptable for a teacher to be hitting a child.

[e5]

The student is scummy but teachers, shouldn't, no matter what, hit a student like that. He could have just held his arms back or moved away.

[Yawn]

shocking

sacking a teacher because of that classless scumbag pupil attacking him. he restrained him, he didnt fight him back.

[MKR&*42]

Idk what some of you are on about, but the teacher put the student in a headlock, he didn't punch him...?

[Daltron]

Idk what some of you are on about, but the teacher put the student in a headlock, he didn't punch him...?

I think some of my wording made it a little confusing, the teacher head locked the student but never hit him, it was more for self defence

[Zak]

andddddd this is what's wrong with the world!

[lawrawrrr]

Idk what some of you are on about, but the teacher put the student in a headlock, he didn't punch him...?

It's still physically touching a child - in an aggressive way, which isn't on.

[sexpot]

It's still physically touching a child - in an aggressive way, which isn't on.

It was the right thing to do. Your solution of not allowing teachers to defend themselves is just asinine. It doesn't matter how many teachers you call, if they're not allowed to touch the student whatsoever the student can just do whatever they want.

[Demi]

I've been clear on this before - I back corporal punishment (the cane) 100%. Look at the breakdown in behaviour in our schools and across youngsters who have no respect for authority. It's time to stop whinging about 'childrens rights' and be more concerned about teaching them right and wrong from a young age.

Until that happens then schools will remain out of control (as many are) and so will crime.

Me and you hardly agree but this is great!
I fully 100% support this statement. Kids think they can rule the school :/

[GommeInc]

It's still physically touching a child - in an aggressive way, which isn't on.
Which is a battery - unlawfully touching someone (only needs to be an unwanted touch too, doesn't have to be a punch).

[Cassiieee]

If the student hit him first, why has he no right to self defence himself. It comes natural to have a habbit of defening yourself.

[lawrawrrr]

End of the day, teachers are there to teach; if you're trying to stop a child being violent is the best way to do that by acting violently back? No.

I've been in a situation where someone's gone to attack me before, and been trained for it (special needs though, bit different), step away and alert someone else. Mainly for the teachers' own protection. A child is, at the end of the day, a child, and will not go on endlessly punching someone in authority, no matter how much they protest to hate them.

Whilst teachers should not 'have to deal' with that, neither should social workers, carers, all those sorts of careers, but it's a risk you take. Less so with teaching, but like I said earlier, there's nearly always a record of those 'bad' children and the riskier schools, and 9 times out of 10 it's the teacher's choice to work there.


on phone xx

[MKR&*42]

You know Laura this might be hard to grasp the concept of, but I don't actually think the student ever intended to move/leave the room:


Mr Krix to "f*** off" several times - before punching him when he stood close to the student and refused to move.

So no, telling him to "go to a corner" wouldn't have worked, getting reinforcement who wouldn't be allowed to touch him (face it I doubt the police would be called until it escalated into a full blown beating) wouldn't have worked and just "moving away" when all the student has to do is move back towards him, wouldn't have worked.

I'm also 99% positive in the U.K. this would have been allowed based on this - https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/use-of-reasonable-force-in-schools. To give you a brief overview of how the teacher actually did no wrong:


Force is usually used either to control or restrain.

Restraint means to hold back physically or to bring a pupil under control

Staff should always try to avoid acting in a way that might cause injury, but in extreme cases it may not always be possible to avoid injuring the pupil.

I'm actually sure the pupil wasn't injured anyway and even if he was minorly, it still would have counted as "reasonable" as the aim was to restrain the pupil.

It even says that a no contact policy is a ridiculous idea;


Schools should not have a ‘no contact’ policy. There is a real risk that such a policy might place a member of staff in breach of their duty of care towards a pupil, or prevent them taking action needed to prevent a pupil causing harm.

And further on under "unacceptable techniques", a headlock isn't mentioned.

Oh and yes schools can use reasonable force to


prevent a pupil from attacking a member of staff.

[GommeInc]

I'm also 99% positive in the U.K. this would have been allowed based on this - https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/use-of-reasonable-force-in-schools
It's strange Australia doesn't seem to have these sorts of publications. There's Corporal Punishment: Key Issues (http://www.aifs.gov.au/nch/pubs/sheets/rs19/rs19.pdf), a document about the use of reasonable force for families, but not teachers, and that publication is from 2010 and may be out of date. This webite (http://www.slatergordon.com.au/blog/appropriate-contact-with-students-legal-information-for-wa-teachers/) suggests that the teacher can only use reasonable force when in the company of other adults, which may explain why he should have called in reinforcements.

It suggests that Australia isn't as lenient as us, which makes a change :P

EDIT: This (http://education.qld.gov.au/library/edhistory/topics/corporal/legal.html) is dated January 2013 and suggests teachers can use reasonable force, which is further defined as when a pupil attacks a teacher. It seems Australia should have allowed it :/ It's strange there doesn't appear to be an official source like we have.

[Daltron]

All the policies for NSW where this took place can be found ere:

https://www.det.nsw.edu.au/policiesinter/category.do?level=Schools

Except I can't find the specific policy about making physical contact with students. All linked by Gomme are for different states such as QLD and WA.