The 800,000 people living in Britain with little or no English

[-:Undertaker:-]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/immigration/10605581/The-800000-people-living-in-Britain-with-little-or-no-English.html

The 800,000 people living in Britain with little or no English

Analysis of census figures shows how most people living in Britain who do not have a good command of English do not have a job


http://i.telegraph.co.uk/multimedia/archive/02438/immigration-camero_2438966b.jpg
Analysis of census figures shows how less than half of those with a working command of English are working


Almost 800,000 people living in England and Wales have little or no English, with more than half not working, official figures show.

A new analysis of findings from the 2011 census shows dramatic differences in the lifestyles and employment chances of migrants with a limited command of English compared with the general population.

Migrants with little or no English are 50 per cent more likely to be unemployed than native speakers and three times as likely to have no formal qualifications.

The study also showed that those who do work are condemned to the lowest paid and most laborious jobs if they do not have a working command of English.

Significantly the problem is most acute among women. Overall 60 per cent of those living in England and Wales but unable to speak the national tongue are female.

It follows warnings that women from countries such as Pakistan and Bangladesh brought to the UK as wives are suffering some of the greatest levels of social exclusion.

Overall the census found that there are 3.7 million people living in England and Wales for whom English – or Welsh in Wales – is not their main language.

The vast majority of them do speak the national language well but the census found that there are 785,000 who admit speaking English either poorly or not at all.

They amount to just 1.7 per cent of the population but a much larger proportion of the non-working population, analysts at the Office for National Statistics found.

While 72 per cent of working-aged people whose main language is English had a job on census day in 2011, just 48 per cent of those who struggle to speak English had a job.

The rest are not working, the vast majority of them economically inactive.

Only just over a third of women with little or no English are in work, compared with more than two thirds of men in the same position.

And three quarters of workers who do not have good English are employed in the most menial categories of work including as farm labourers, in factories or cleaning.

Women with little or no English who work are two and a half times as likely to be in basic jobs as migrants who do speak English well and five times more likely as native English speakers.

The figures show that housewives make up the biggest category of women who do not have a good command of English.

Overall almost 60 per cent of women who cannot speak English well are classed as economically inactive – meaning that they are not working or looking for work – compared with only a quarter of men with the same language levels.

Ann Cryer, the former Labour MP for Keighley – who was one of the first politicians to raise the issue of migrants failing to learn English – said there was a particular problem among the Pakistani and Bangladeshi communities in her former constituency with women being brought to Britain as wives and denied the chance to integrate.

“English is the key to everything,” she said.

“In the 13 years that I was a Member of Parliament I was unable to persuade the Pakistani community or the Bangladeshi community that it would be a really good idea for them to start to marry within the settled community itself, it is the way forward for them.

“I think the Government do have to tighten up – if you are saying that a new husband or wife has to have a reasonable level of English they have got to check that that is the case.

“But ultimately I don’t think it is a Government solution that we need, it is a solution from he community.

“They will not advance until they accept that it is a good thing to marry someone who is actually born in the Bradford district and not from Mirpur [the district of Kashmir].

“We have had waves and waves of immigration to Bradford and Keighley district over the past 100 years but it has always been the case – if you think of the Irish, the Italians and even other Asian communities – they do not tend to bring husbands and wives in from outside the community, they tend to marry in the settled community but it is not happening wit the Pakistani and Bangladeshi community.”

I just had a lightbulb moment. How about a rule that you cannot come into this country unless you speak English? I would have thought, you know, that's a basic ******* start to come to some kind of coherent immigration system.

Yeah so there's my idea - not allowed in unless you can speak English. How's that for a bleeding obvious start?

Second - no entry if you have a criminal record (which means leaving the EU).

Third - entry only granted provided a company/sector/industry requires your services.

Thoughts?

[Daltron]

Yeah so there's my idea - not allowed in unless you can speak English. How's that for a bleeding obvious start?

I do not agree with you and I feel like this thread is going to turn into that multicultural debate people had with you a while ago.
That is all.

[dbgtz]

I do not agree with you and I feel like this thread is going to turn into that multicultural debate people had with you a while ago.
That is all.

Why would you disagree with this? If you can't speak the main language of a country how the hell do you expect to get anywhere (without a translator which most people would not have)?

[-:Undertaker:-]

Why would you disagree with this? If you can't speak the main language of a country how the hell do you expect to get anywhere (without a translator which most people would not have)?

Oh didn't he say? I will answer on his behalf: He'd expect everybody else to pay for translators. That's usually the way it works.

[The Don]

Nice of you to assume for people, rubbish debate tactics 101.

Haven't read the article but I'm sure there are numerous issues with it which I will look at when I have time. Bit silly having another thread on immigration when you make one every other week.


Oh didn't he say? I will answer on his behalf: He'd expect everybody else to pay for translators. That's usually the way it works.

[-:Undertaker:-]

Nice of you to assume for people, rubbish debate tactics 101.

If he thinks we should allow hundreds of thousands of people into this country who can't speak the language then OF COURSE he'll be wanting the rest of the population to pay for their translation services, how else would they manage if not? I assume such a thing by a process of simple logic.

As for immigration in general, it's now tied with the economy as the most important issue. Expect more of it.

[The Don]

Stop acting as if that's the only solution when it isn't.


If he thinks we should allow hundreds of thousands of people into this country who can't speak the language then OF COURSE he'll be wanting the rest of the population to pay for their translation services, how else would they manage if not? I assume such a thing by a process of simple logic.

As for immigration in general, it's now tied with the economy as the most important issue. Expect more of it.

[-:Undertaker:-]

Stoping acting as if that's the only solution when it isn't.

Correct, the solution is to stop it happening in the first place which is: no english, no entry.

[The Don]

Correct, the solution is to stop it happening in the first place which is: no english, no entry.

I'm sure there are others...

[-:Undertaker:-]

I'm sure there are others...

Well go on.....

[GommeInc]

I do not agree with you and I feel like this thread is going to turn into that multicultural debate people had with you a while ago.
That is all.
It's a good point really. If you go to another country, at least learn some of the language. It will make you employable and will actually save you from troubles. e.g. being taken advantage of. I think there was a case not so long ago of a taxi driver taking money off of a Chinese/Hong Kong student who didn't know how to use pound sterling or even communicate effectively to the driver (he gave a picture of the destination and nothing else). I think he took £50 or some excessive amount.

In short, it helps to know a bit of the language, even if going on holiday to Italy or France, so not to find yourself in a spot of trouble.

[Matthew]

I think its fair enough to say that if someone doesn't have at least a basic grasp of english then they shouldn't be allowed in!

[CrazyLemurs]

I don't think the problem is entirely the fact this is caused by immigration: if we had communities in England that were natively English but refused to speak it they should also have some kind of restriction/sanction.

Although immigration is like 99.999999% the cause of all problems related to not being able to speak English, there comes the issue of those who speak little English but have the need to live here such as asylum or political refuge seeking. Are they counted in these figures or the census at all (I don't understand much about asylum)?

I don't think we should say they must have an economic benefit to the country, just that there must be available employment for them. Not fair on anybody to put more people into a job market that is struggling to employ everyone

[Ardemax]

Better kick out all those Welsh-only speaking thieves then, shouldn't be here in the first place if they can't speak the native language

[Kardan]

Better kick out all those Welsh-only speaking thieves then, shouldn't be here in the first place if they can't speak the native language

Ah, you beat me :P I was going to ask if we should kick the Welsh out :P

[-:Undertaker:-]

Better kick out all those Welsh-only speaking thieves then, shouldn't be here in the first place if they can't speak the native language

Because comparing a native language that's been here for hundreds/thousands of years is comparable to hundreds of thousands of people coming in from alien lands. Not to mention the fact that I doubt there are many (if any) Welsh who only speak Welsh. Besides, if Welsh is spoken in Wales then so what? English should be spoken in England.

[Kardan]

Because comparing a native language that's been here for hundreds/thousands of years is comparable to hundreds of thousands of people coming in from alien lands. Not to mention the fact that I doubt there are many (if any) Welsh who only speak Welsh. Besides, if Welsh is spoken in Wales then so what? English should be spoken in England.

There will be some people that speak only Welsh, but I imagine it would be a relatively small number. Even so, you say they shouldn't be allowed in England? (And good luck stopping them from getting into England :P)

- - - Updated - - -

Just had a search around...

The number of people in England and Wales that speak no English at all is 137,511 and the number of people living in England that have Welsh as their main language is 8,248.

[Brad]

I know I'm not from Europe and all, but I know that we have immigrants all the time come to Canada, and they don't know how to speak English, nor French. In most cases they learn by getting help either with a language teacher/tutor, or they pay for a translator until they are able to speak it.
Also, I know that Canada has a larger land mass, so more people, better money coming in for government to waste it on stuff we don't need (sarcastically spoken). haha!
Could it be the fact that Britian can't support more immigrants coming in. Honestly 800,000 seems like a lot of immigrants who cannot speak English. Sounds like something that happened with Canada with the French... then Canada became Bilingual. :P

[-:Undertaker:-]

There will be some people that speak only Welsh, but I imagine it would be a relatively small number. Even so, you say they shouldn't be allowed in England? (And good luck stopping them from getting into England :P)

- - - Updated - - -

Just had a search around...

The number of people in England and Wales that speak no English at all is 137,511 and the number of people living in England that have Welsh as their main language is 8,248.

England and Wales have a shared history and culture, but sure - if the people of Wales wanted to leave Britain, establish Welsh as their only language and bar people from settling there who couldn't speak Welsh then they'd be very much entitled to.

The comparison between England and Wales (which are one country together who speak English as one language) and Britain and say Pakistan (two different countries with differing languages and virtually no shared culture) is like comparing apples and oranges together when they're completely different. It's like when I hear the oh-so-typical moronic response of 'WELLZ WE HAD IRISH IMMIGRASHUN TOO' in an immigration argument I feel like reaching for a glass of whiskey and a hand gun. :P


I know I'm not from Europe and all, but I know that we have immigrants all the time come to Canada, and they don't know how to speak English, nor French. In most cases they learn by getting help either with a language teacher/tutor, or they pay for a translator until they are able to speak it.
Also, I know that Canada has a larger land mass, so more people, better money coming in for government to waste it on stuff we don't need (sarcastically spoken). haha!
Could it be the fact that Britian can't support more immigrants coming in. Honestly 800,000 seems like a lot of immigrants who cannot speak English. Sounds like something that happened with Canada with the French... then Canada became Bilingual.

Exactly, and even after hundreds of years together and both knowing two languages... Canada and Quebec are still at loggerheads with eachother and it so very nearly came to a split back in the 1990s. And in many ways you could argue that French and British cultures are broadly the same in the languages are closely related along with the cultures and religion. Certainly more so than Britain and some third world country. I don't understand that no matter how many times I argue about what makes a nation state on this forum, some people seemingly just don't want to understand it and appear to believe in the year 6 notion that countries are just random lines drawn on a map.

But you're exactly right, the amount coming into Britain is ridiculous and people want this madness stopped.

[Kardan]

England and Wales have a shared history and culture, but sure - if the people of Wales wanted to leave Britain, establish Welsh as their only language and bar people from settling there who couldn't speak Welsh then they'd be very much entitled to.

The comparison between England and Wales (which are one country together who speak English as one language) and Britain and say Pakistan (two different countries with differing languages and virtually no shared culture) is like comparing apples and oranges together when they're completely different. It's like when I hear the oh-so-typical moronic response of 'WELLZ WE HAD IRISH IMMIGRASHUN TOO' in an immigration argument I feel like reaching for a glass of whiskey and a hand gun. :P



Exactly, and even after hundreds of years together and both knowing two languages... Canada and Quebec are still at loggerheads with eachother and it so very nearly came to a split back in the 1990s. And in many ways you could argue that French and British cultures are broadly the same in the languages are closely related along with the cultures and religion. Certainly more so than Britain and some third world country. I don't understand that no matter how many times I argue about what makes a nation state on this forum, some people seemingly just don't want to understand it and appear to believe in the year 6 notion that countries are just random lines drawn on a map.

But you're exactly right, the amount coming into Britain is ridiculous and people want this madness stopped.

Quite clearly England/Wales and England/Pakistan are two different scenarios, and I'm talking about England/Wales :P You said you must speak English to live in England, so you would move any Welsh only speakers back to Wales if they lived in England? In my opinion, you can't make it a hard rule. There will be exceptions here and there.

[Brad]

Exactly, and even after hundreds of years together and both knowing two languages... Canada and Quebec are still at loggerheads with eachother and it so very nearly came to a split back in the 1990s. And in many ways you could argue that French and British cultures are broadly the same in the languages are closely related along with the cultures and religion. Certainly more so than Britain and some third world country. I don't understand that no matter how many times I argue about what makes a nation state on this forum, some people seemingly just don't want to understand it and appear to believe in the year 6 notion that countries are just random lines drawn on a map.

But you're exactly right, the amount coming into Britain is ridiculous and people want this madness stopped.

I totally agree with you. I bet that with the amount of people not working, they are applying for Unemployment which makes the people working have to work harder because their taxes are going to pay for those who don't work.
And I do understand that British government is probably hurting with the lack of people working because of all the money going out for unemployment.
So I do think Britain is doing something right and not allowing people to come in. It may sound heartless but it's like any other country; If you don't benefit the country at all and you just live off of Unemployment and welfare probably.
I'm not too sure if Britain has Welfare, but I do know that in Canada- People who go on Welfare, do not get off of it because they get an amount from the government and the people who actually work full time (like me) have to pay for them to sit on their butts all day and do nothing.
So, if they would do that with Canada.. Maybe our economy wouldn't be going to crap.

I am guessing that British Economy isn't doing so well if there is 800,000 people not working and collecting some form of money.

[Kardan]

I totally agree with you. I bet that with the amount of people not working, they are applying for Unemployment which makes the people working have to work harder because their taxes are going to pay for those who don't work.
And I do understand that British government is probably hurting with the lack of people working because of all the money going out for unemployment.
So I do think Britain is doing something right and not allowing people to come in. It may sound heartless but it's like any other country; If you don't benefit the country at all and you just live off of Unemployment and welfare probably.
I'm not too sure if Britain has Welfare, but I do know that in Canada- People who go on Welfare, do not get off of it because they get an amount from the government and the people who actually work full time (like me) have to pay for them to sit on their butts all day and do nothing.
So, if they would do that with Canada.. Maybe our economy wouldn't be going to crap.

I am guessing that British Economy isn't doing so well if there is 800,000 people not working and collecting some form of money.

Might be worth noting:

UK unemployment is at it's lowest level since 2009, the UK economy has grown the fastest in 2013 than since 2007, yet immigration is probably at it's highest levels ever. It's not as simple as More immigration = Everything is bad.

[Brad]

Might be worth noting:

UK unemployment is at it's lowest level since 2009, the UK economy has grown the fastest in 2013 than since 2007, yet immigration is probably at it's highest levels ever. It's not as simple as More immigration = Everything is bad.

That's a very interesting statistic, do you have referencing for it? I can see what you are saying as it not being as simple. Which anything in life is not. It'll be an issue for the UK until they pass a law stating either; a) Britain will become bilingual (Welsh & English)... which may benefit the country. or b) That all welsh speaking people have to leave, or learn English.
Now, with me saying that; You even said:

Even so, you say they shouldn't be allowed in England? (And good luck stopping them from getting into England :P)

I agree with that. Sometimes immigration happens when they don't like how the government is being ran or their being prosecuted in their land, or they just want to take a move and can't do it legally.
haha!

[The Don]

The official statistics has the number listed as 138,000, not 800,000 so I'm not sure where the telegraph pulled that number from...

http://www.ons.gov.uk/ons/rel/census/2011-census/key-statistics-and-quick-statistics-for-wards-and-output-areas-in-england-and-wales/STB-2011-census--quick-statistics-for-england-and-wales--march-2011.html


In 2011, less than half a per cent (138,000) of all usual residents aged three years and over could not speak English.

[Ardemax]

Because comparing a native language that's been here for hundreds/thousands of years is comparable to hundreds of thousands of people coming in from alien lands. Not to mention the fact that I doubt there are many (if any) Welsh who only speak Welsh. Besides, if Welsh is spoken in Wales then so what? English should be spoken in England.

I'm sorry if I mis-referenced your post, but I thought you said English should be spoken in this country. 'This country' implies the United Kingdom to me.

[Kardan]

The official statistics has the number listed as 138,000, not 800,000 so I'm not sure where the telegraph pulled that number from...

http://www.ons.gov.uk/ons/rel/census/2011-census/key-statistics-and-quick-statistics-for-wards-and-output-areas-in-england-and-wales/STB-2011-census--quick-statistics-for-england-and-wales--march-2011.html

The 800,000 figure includes the people that describe themselves as knowing 'little english' as well as the non speakers.

[Ardemax]

The 800,000 figure includes the people that describe themselves as knowing 'little english' as well as the non speakers.

Gotta love ambiguity in headlines.

[The Don]

The 800,000 figure includes the people that describe themselves as knowing 'little english' as well as the non speakers.

Ah, so it's completely misleading! Shocker right there...

[-:Undertaker:-]

I'm sorry if I mis-referenced your post, but I thought you said English should be spoken in this country. 'This country' implies the United Kingdom to me.

Yes. English should be spoken in the United Kingdom with respect given to the native lingering language of Welsh in parts of Wales. It's pretty simple to understand and grasp really, and the existence of Welsh isn't a good enough reason for transforming many areas of our inner cities into Polish, Turkish or Arabics-speaking ghettos.

Only somebody harbouring an extreme and nasty dislike of his own country, people and culture could make such a strange equation.


Gotta love ambiguity in headlines.

The headline clearly states little or no English.


Ah, so it's completely misleading! Shocker right there...

The headline clearly states little or no English. Pretty simple to grasp that - unless you get it really wrong and allow your own prejudices and dogma to get the better of you (as you just did) when you posted ONS figures trying to disprove a claim that was never made by the Telegraph or myself in the first place. Nice try, but the only misleading thing in this thread is your attempt to turn reality on its head.


UK unemployment is at it's lowest level since 2009, the UK economy has grown the fastest in 2013 than since 2007, yet immigration is probably at it's highest levels ever. It's not as simple as More immigration = Everything is bad.

Well that is if you believe the statistics which I do not. But assuming they are truthful, nobody made the claim that immigration is the only factor in unemployment. The main problem with mass immigration in terms of unemployment is the level of youth unemployment which, looking at some graphs, remains at some of it's highest levels ever. And before you say it - no, I am not saying that mass immigration is the only cause of youth unemployment but it is related. I have argued for example against the minimum wage in the past which also hurts youth unemployment.

Both policies which you support that hurt the working class the hardest despite being left wing and for the working man. Kinda like the Labour Party.

[-:Undertaker:-]

I didn't see this so i'll reply.


Quite clearly England/Wales and England/Pakistan are two different scenarios, and I'm talking about England/Wales :P You said you must speak English to live in England, so you would move any Welsh only speakers back to Wales if they lived in England? In my opinion, you can't make it a hard rule. There will be exceptions here and there.

No I would not, Wales is a country of the United Kingdom and as a sovereign state border controls cannot be established nor do I see any reason to establish them seeing as England and Wales have no border controls between them and for good reason - the reason being that we are one country as Britain. Do you ever hear of Welsh people moving across the border into England in their hundreds of thousands and settling in one area, only speaking Welsh and refusing to make any effort to integrate with the English population? No you do not.

Yet another silly strawman argument in a debate on immigration. As I said previously, it's only a matter of time before somebody brings up the Irish.

[Kardan]

Yes. English should be spoken in the United Kingdom with respect given to the native lingering language of Welsh in parts of Wales. It's pretty simple to understand and grasp really, and the existence of Welsh isn't a good enough reason for transforming many areas of our inner cities into Polish, Turkish or Arabics-speaking ghettos.

Only somebody harbouring an extreme and nasty dislike of his own country, people and culture could make such a strange equation.



The headline clearly states little or no English.



The headline clearly states little or no English. Pretty simple to grasp that - unless you get it really wrong and allow your own prejudices and dogma to get the better of you (as you just did) when you posted ONS figures trying to disprove a claim that was never made by the Telegraph or myself in the first place. Nice try, but the only misleading thing in this thread is your attempt to turn reality on its head.



Well that is if you believe the statistics which I do not. But assuming they are truthful, nobody made the claim that immigration is the only factor in unemployment. The main problem with mass immigration in terms of unemployment is the level of youth unemployment which, looking at some graphs, remains at some of it's highest levels ever. And before you say it - no, I am not saying that mass immigration is the only cause of youth unemployment but it is related. I have argued for example against the minimum wage in the past which also hurts youth unemployment.

Both policies which you support that hurt the working class the hardest despite being left wing and for the working man. Kinda like the Labour Party.

So you don't believe certain statistics (Economy/Unemployment), but you are happy to accept some statistics if it agrees with your argument (Immigration/English speakers)? :P

And then you agree with me, you would allow Welsh only speakers to remain in England? :P

[The Don]

Yeh because knowing some English should be grouped with not knowing any English /s. You're silly if you think the headline isn't being intentionally misleading. Also what does one classify as a 'little'? I seem to remember you arguing that we couldn't trust my statistics in the climate change debate as I hadn't read every paper that was classed as agreeing with climate change, then you go and use ridiculous statistics which can't be measured accurately (a little is a subjective term). Anything to make people dislike the EU, really pathetic.

[Ardemax]

The headline clearly states little or no English.

The ambiguity lies in the statement 'little' English.

[-:Undertaker:-]

So you don't believe certain statistics (Economy/Unemployment), but you are happy to accept some statistics if it agrees with your argument (Immigration/English speakers)? :P

Oh no not at all, if anything the figures will be much worse than what the government officially states as is usually the case. When I look at government figures, I look at them on the assumption that they are a pack of lies and the situation will be much worse.

I'm only going by government stats here as you lot seem to believe every word that comes from the ONS/Downing Street.


And then you agree with me, you would allow Welsh only speakers to remain in England? :P

Welsh is a language of the United Kingdom, so yes. Anything else, then no. Immigrants should be able to speak the English language without the need for translators if they are to be granted anything other than a tourism visa to Britain.


Yeh because knowing some English should be grouped with not knowing any English /s. You're silly if you think the headline isn't being intentionally misleading. Also what does one classify as a 'little'? I seem to remember you arguing that we couldn't trust my statistics in the climate change debate as I hadn't read every paper that was classed as agreeing with climate change, then you go and use ridiculous statistics which can't be measured accurately (a little is a subjective term).

You've been caught out. You are attempting to make it seem as though the Telegraph has made the claim that 800,000 immigrants cannot speak any English when the Telegraph quite clearly points out that it's talking about both those that cannot speak a word of English and those who only know a little bit of English. It's in the title, it's in the text - it's as clear as daylight for all who read it, except you because you want it to read as something else.


Anything to make people dislike the EU, really pathetic.

Oh absolutely, the handover of our sovereignty to the EU is much worse than most people can even imagine. The Human Rights Act which allows terrorists to stay in this country despite our government wanting to get rid of them, the £18bn-a year Climate Change Act which subsidies wealthy landowners at the expense of the poor who pay for it via their gas and electric bills, the coming crisis in energy that we are facing as a result of Brussels targets on emissions, the ERM disaster which took place when our government tried to peg Sterling to the to-be Eurozone, the disaster that would have occurred had you lot had your way and took us into the Euro, the Common Fisheries Policy that has devastated fishing in Britain, the persecution of butchers and shop keepers who wanted to keep using imperial measurements (as their customers wanted) but who were prosecuted because of EU legislation, the high food prices and disaster caused in the third world by EU agricultural policy, the influx of hundreds of thousands of immigrants who have changed local communities around this country without the residents ever being asked, the constant stream of anti-business regulations and red tape that emit from the EU every single week..... the list goes on and on and on and I am going to keep posting the truth about what damage the EU has done, what it is doing and what it's intentions are.

Let's face it - we eurosceptics have you on the run.


The ambiguity lies in the statement 'little' English.

Yes, so 800,000 people live in the UK with little or no English. Nobody said they all couldn't speak a word of English. The headline is pretty clear in what it reads and I think what the problem really is is the fact that people in this thread are reading the headline as something that it's not in an attempt to skew the argument in their favour.

[The Don]

Oh no not at all, if anything the figures will be much worse than what the government officially states as is usually the case. When I look at government figures, I look at them on the assumption that they are a pack of lies and the situation will be much worse.

I'm only going by government stats here as you lot seem to believe every word that comes from the ONS/Downing Street.



Welsh is a language of the United Kingdom, so yes. Anything else, then no. Immigrants should be able to speak the English language without the need for translators if they are to be granted anything other than a tourism visa to Britain.



You've been caught out. You are attempting to make it seem as though the Telegraph has made the claim that 800,000 immigrants cannot speak any English when the Telegraph quite clearly points out that it's talking about both those that cannot speak a word of English and those who only know a little bit of English. It's in the title, it's in the text - it's as clear as daylight for all who read it, except you because you want it to read as something else.



Oh absolutely, the handover of our sovereignty to the EU is much worse than most people can even imagine. The Human Rights Act which allows terrorists to stay in this country despite our government wanting to get rid of them, the £18bn-a year Climate Change Act which subsidies wealthy landowners at the expense of the poor who pay for it via their gas and electric bills, the coming crisis in energy that we are facing as a result of Brussels targets on emissions, the ERM disaster which took place when our government tried to peg Sterling to the to-be Eurozone, the disaster that would have occurred had you lot had your way and took us into the Euro, the Common Fisheries Policy that has devastated fishing in Britain, the persecution of butchers and shop keepers who wanted to keep using imperial measurements (as their customers wanted) but who were prosecuted because of EU legislation, the high food prices and disaster caused in the third world by EU agricultural policy, the influx of hundreds of thousands of immigrants who have changed local communities around this country without the residents ever being asked, the constant stream of anti-business regulations and red tape that emit from the EU every single week..... the list goes on and on and on and I am going to keep posting the truth about what damage the EU has done, what it is doing and what it's intentions are.

Let's face it - we eurosceptics have you on the run.



Yes, so 800,000 people live in the UK with little or no English. Nobody said they all couldn't speak a word of English. The headline is pretty clear in what it reads and I think what the problem really is is the fact that people in this thread are reading the headline as something that it's not in an attempt to skew the argument in their favour.

I'll post it again since you didn't really answer my points.

You're silly if you think the headline isn't being intentionally misleading. Also what does one classify as a 'little'? I seem to remember you arguing that we couldn't trust my statistics in the climate change debate as I hadn't read every paper that was classed as agreeing with climate change, then you go and use ridiculous statistics which can't be measured accurately (a little is a subjective term).

How would you measure what is classed as 'enough' English?

[-:Undertaker:-]

I'll post it again since you didn't really answer my points.

You're silly if you think the headline isn't being intentionally misleading. Also what does one classify as a 'little'? I seem to remember you arguing that we couldn't trust my statistics in the climate change debate as I hadn't read every paper that was classed as agreeing with climate change, then you go and use ridiculous statistics which can't be measured accurately (a little is a subjective term).

How would you measure what is classed as 'enough' English?

The headline does state what the article and statistics back up, namely that 800,000 immigrants either cannot speak English or only have a very limited grasp of the language. The headline fits the article perfectly despite your earlier attempts to twist the headline into something that it wasn't - only in your imagination did the headline ever refer to 800,000 who couldn't speak any English at all. And besides, even if it didn't - you do know that headlines are intended yo be attention grabbing and attract the readers attention? Something you should've been taught in year 7 English class.

But here we have YET ANOTHER immigration debate where you and others are so determined to avoid actually having a debate, that instead you'll start nitpicking over the headline of the Telegraph or whatever newspaper I have posted the article from. You posted this...


The official statistics has the number listed as 138,000, not 800,000 so I'm not sure where the telegraph pulled that number from...

http://www.ons.gov.uk/ons/rel/census...arch-2011.html


In 2011, less than half a per cent (138,000) of all usual residents aged three years and over could not speak English.

..in an attempt to be a smart arse. Little did you realise before jumping to prove the article false that the headline or article did not refer solely to immigrants who could not speak a word of English, it referred to 800,000 who either could not speak the language entirely or who had a very poor grasp of the language. You bent the debate, stop trying to bend it even more and admit you misread the headline and allowed your prejudices to get the better of you when posting those ONS figures.

And you still haven't replied to the actual debate topic at end when I asked you earlier how there are, in your words, 'other ways' to get immigrants to learn English and we haven't had a response to that but we've had many continued responses to a god damned headline: the classic debate tactic of those in favour of mass immigration - debate and talk about ANYTHING but the actual subject of the effects of uncontrolled immigration.

And the pollsters sit there wondering why people are sick of it. Pfft.

[The Don]

The headline does state what the article and statistics back up, namely that 800,000 immigrants either cannot speak English or only have a very limited grasp of the language. The headline fits the article perfectly despite your earlier attempts to twist the headline into something that it wasn't - only in your imagination did the headline ever refer to 800,000 who couldn't speak any English at all. And besides, even if it didn't - you do know that headlines are intended yo be attention grabbing and attract the readers attention? Something you should've been taught in year 7 English class.

But here we have YET ANOTHER immigration debate where you and others are so determined to avoid actually having a debate, that instead you'll start nitpicking over the headline of the Telegraph or whatever newspaper I have posted the article from. You posted this...



..in an attempt to be a smart arse. Little did you realise before jumping to prove the article false that the headline or article did not refer solely to immigrants who could not speak a word of English, it referred to 800,000 who either could not speak the language entirely or who had a very poor grasp of the language. You bent the debate, stop trying to bend it even more and admit you misread the headline and allowed your prejudices to get the better of you when posting those ONS figures.

And you still haven't replied to the actual debate topic at end when I asked you earlier how there are, in your words, 'other ways' to get immigrants to learn English and we haven't had a response to that but we've had many continued responses to a god damned headline: the classic debate tactic of those in favour of mass immigration - debate and talk about ANYTHING but the actual subject of the effects of uncontrolled immigration.

And the pollsters sit there wondering why people are sick of it. Pfft.

You keep skipping the point of my posts which is, how does one classify what 'A litte' English is. You can throw out all the insults you want but it doesn't change the fact that the classification of 'a little' is ridiculous and has been grouped together with those which do not know any English so that morons can get worked up about all these foreigners coming over here taking our jobs without knowing any English.

It seems you have fallen prey to this yourself with your initial post



I just had a lightbulb moment. How about a rule that you cannot come into this country unless you speak English? I would have thought, you know, that's a basic ******* start to come to some kind of coherent immigration system.

Yeah so there's my idea - not allowed in unless you can speak English. How's that for a bleeding obvious start?



If he thinks we should allow hundreds of thousands of people into this country who can't speak the language then OF COURSE he'll be wanting the rest of the population to pay for their translation services, how else would they manage if not? I assume such a thing by a process of simple logic.

As for immigration in general, it's now tied with the economy as the most important issue. Expect more of it.


Where you've clearly overlooked the 'little to' part or don't have the capacity to understand that that's a ridiculously flawed system. Do we only allow people with a GCSE equivalent or higher in English Language to come in? If so we'll have to deport 20% of the students who took their English GCSE's in November since they failed to get a pass grade. (http://www.aqa.org.uk/exams-administration/about-results/results-statistics)

[Kardan]

You keep skipping the point of my posts which is, how does one classify what 'A litte' English is. You can throw out all the insults you want but it doesn't change the fact that the classification of 'a little' is ridiculous and has been grouped together with those which do not know any English so that morons can get worked up about all these foreigners coming over here taking our jobs without knowing any English.

It seems you have fallen prey to this yourself with your initial post






Where you've clearly overlooked the 'little to' part or don't have the capacity to understand that that's a ridiculously flawed system. Do we only allow people with a GCSE equivalent or higher in English Language to come in? If so we'll have to deport 20% of the students who took their English GCSE's in November since they failed to get a pass grade. (http://www.aqa.org.uk/exams-administration/about-results/results-statistics)

Might be worth noting that a pass grade is G+, rather than C+