PDA

View Full Version : Ukraine on the verge of disintegration



-:Undertaker:-
22-02-2014, 05:15 PM
http://rt.com/news/thousands-gather-eastern-ukraine-252/

Ukraine on verge of split following coup


http://static.guim.co.uk/sys-images/Guardian/Pix/pictures/2013/12/15/1387071132364/The-ethno-linguistic-divi-001.jpg


The public gathering of deputies from local councils of southeastern Ukraine have declared they are taking responsibility for constitutional order in the country, as thousands of people have assembled in the city of Kharkov.

“We, the local authorities of all levels, the Supreme Council of the Autonomous Republic of Crimea, Sevastopol region decided to take responsibility for ensuring the constitutional order and the rights of citizens on their territory,” their resolution said.

The Kharkov public gathering has announced a number of measures local authorities should take in response to the developments in Kiev. They should take full responsibility for all decision in respective regions with no regard to authorities in Kiev until the constitutional order in Ukraine is restored, a resolution of the gathering says.

They authorities should take measures to protect arms depots and prevent their take-over and looting by radical opposition activists.

The deputies have criticized the decision adopted by the Parliament (Verkhovna Rada) in the last few days, saying they are raising doubts about its legitimacy.

The gathering says the legislative acts may have been passed involuntary and are neither legitimate nor lawful.

The resent decisions of the national parliament were taken in conditions “of terror, threats of violence and death,” the resolution says.

Meanwhile, citizens are encouraged to form local militias to protect public order. Local authorities are to fund and support those militias.

Over 10, 000 people have gathered at the city’s Sport Palace, where a total of 3,477 deputies have been holding a meeting.

The situation remains generally quiet with the crowd being partly in good spirits and partly subdued and concerned, Itar-Tass news agency reports from the Palace.

“3, 477 deputies from local councils in southeastern Ukraine have gathered. We have gathered here not to separate the country, but to save it,” the regional governor, Mikhail Dobkin, told the crowd.

The head of the Kharkov administration, Gennady Kernes, has called the public gathering “an attempt by qualified deputies from the east of the country to stabilize the situation.”

"My colleagues and I have been personally threatened. But today we have gathered to change the situation,” he said. “We will not give in; we will fight till the end.”

The statement has been echoed by Rada’s Party of Regions deputy, Vadim Kolesnichenko, who also said that politicians are being threatened and “their families are basically hostages [of the situation].”

Russia sent several officials in the capacity of observers to the gathering, including Aleksey Pushkov, the head of Russian parliamentary commission on foreign affairs, Mikhail Markelov, Pushkov’s counterpart in the Council of Federation, the upper chamber of the parliament, and several governors from regions in eastern Russia.

“The decisions taken here are positive and concrete. What is important is that everything voiced here was implemented in the interests of the Ukrainian people and the entire Ukraine. What Ukraine needs now is common sense and a survival instinct,” said Evgeny Savchenko, Governor of Russia’s Belgorod region, which borders Ukraine, commenting on the Kharkov gathering.

Meanwhile, parliament (Verkhovna Rada) is holding a new emergency session on Saturday. While the whereabouts of Ukrainian President Yanukovich remain uncertain, opposition leaders passed the law on the return to the 2004 Constitution without the president's signature.

They have also elected Aleksandr Turchinov the new head speaker of the Supreme Rada. He will be taking over the cabinet’s work until the formation of a coalition government.

Among new appointees is Arsen Avakov, who was named the acting head of the Ministry of Interior of Ukraine.

With 233 voting in favor, the Ukrainian Rada has ruled to free the former PM Yulia Timoshenko from prison.

A day after Yanukovich agreed to opposition demands and signed an EU brokered deal, his residence in Kiev was abandoned and left virtually unguarded. Some media reports speculate that the president has left for Kharkov in the east of the country.

Another year, another failed multicultural state.

Thoughts?

lemons
22-02-2014, 05:21 PM
undertaker please give me a SIMPLIFIED reason for all the violence in ukraine

when i mean simplified i mean something a year 6 student can understand

-:Undertaker:-
22-02-2014, 05:25 PM
undertaker please give me a SIMPLIFIED reason for all the violence in ukraine

when i mean simplified i mean something a year 6 student can understand

The Government was more pro-Russian and cancelled a deal with the EU before Christmas. The people in the West of the Ukraine (who do not like Russia due to the history of the area) view themselves as more western and thus were pissed off. Kiev is in the west, so Kiev has been under siege by those wanting the Government to sign closer relations with the EU. Today/yesterday the protestors have managed to force the Government to collapse and for the President to flee the capital.

Those in the East are more culturally Russian and obviously favour closer relations with Russia, so it's looking likely that the East of the country will seperate from the new pro-EU government in the west (Kiev) of the country.

So basically the west of the Ukraine don't like Russia and the east of Ukraine do.

lemons
22-02-2014, 05:31 PM
thanks undertaker!

- - - Updated - - -

ukraine is an irrelevant country anyway, the only time u hear from them is in eurovision

-:Undertaker:-
22-02-2014, 06:30 PM
A video here of statues of the founder of Soviet socialism/marxism, Lenin, being smashed to the ground in Ukraine. A great sight to behold.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XIdaHFIMs9I

The Don
23-02-2014, 01:20 AM
The Government was more pro-Russian and cancelled a deal with the EU before Christmas. The people in the West of the Ukraine (who do not like Russia due to the history of the area) view themselves as more western and thus were pissed off. Kiev is in the west, so Kiev has been under siege by those wanting the Government to sign closer relations with the EU. Today/yesterday the protestors have managed to force the Government to collapse and for the President to flee the capital.

Those in the East are more culturally Russian and obviously favour closer relations with Russia, so it's looking likely that the East of the country will seperate from the new pro-EU government in the west (Kiev) of the country.

So basically the west of the Ukraine don't like Russia and the east of Ukraine do.

You also missed out the whole entire part about the president slowly giving himself more and more power through legislation which would eventually turn Ukraine into a dictatorship.

God
23-02-2014, 04:19 AM
You also missed out the whole entire part about the president slowly giving himself more and more power through legislation which would eventually turn Ukraine into a dictatorship.

Lol wish people in the Usa would notice that with their gov't too.



OT: Im really happy to see that the Ukrainians got what they wanted.

karter
23-02-2014, 04:47 AM
http://i60.tinypic.com/2qxalaf.png


A more accurate map.


OT: Im really happy to see that the Ukrainians got what they wanted.
???
???
?
Pretty sure nobody wants riots and people getting killed in protests

-:Undertaker:-
23-02-2014, 11:47 AM
You also missed out the whole entire part about the president slowly giving himself more and more power through legislation which would eventually turn Ukraine into a dictatorship.

It sounded like you were describing President Obama there. :P

But so western media say in regards to the centralising of power. I don't know enough about them claims to make a judgement, I would say though that in countries like the Ukraine that sort of thing is normal and if I am correct - the pro-western opposition did a similar thing a few years ago.

xxMATTGxx
23-02-2014, 01:15 PM
Thought I would share this in what I came across yesterday. Pictures of President's private palace in Ukraine which contains some of the following: Private Zoo, cars, peacocks, fake galleon etc etc.

http://zyalt.livejournal.com/1007568.html

God
23-02-2014, 01:23 PM
http://i60.tinypic.com/2qxalaf.png


A more accurate map.


???
???
?
Pretty sure nobody wants riots and people getting killed in protests


I only skimmed through the article at first and thought they had succeeded.

lemons
23-02-2014, 01:36 PM
who saw the vid of all the mp's voting to get the president out hahah that is so funny the countdown and singing made me laugh


off topic MY SIG IS SO CUTE

- - - Updated - - -

I have a question

If the Ukraine split into two countries, will there be 2 seperate Eurovision entries? thanks.

-:Undertaker:-
23-02-2014, 01:47 PM
If the Ukraine split into two countries, will there be 2 seperate Eurovision entries? thanks.

Yes, Eurovision (to my knowledge) is based on sovereign states. The Ukraine and the new state would be seperate sovereign states.

MKR&*42
23-02-2014, 01:49 PM
Never would I have guessed this thread would end up discussing Eurovision?? :P

lemons
23-02-2014, 01:50 PM
Never would I have guessed this thread would end up discussing Eurovision?? :P

JUST THINK SCOTLAND WILL HAVE THEIR OWN ENTRY AS WELL IF THEY GET INDEPENDENCE!

MKR&*42
23-02-2014, 01:51 PM
JUST THINK SCOTLAND WILL HAVE THEIR OWN ENTRY AS WELL IF THEY GET INDEPENDENCE!

Oh my god lmaooooo

Screw any financial and political issues, let's worry about Eurovision entries.

The Don
23-02-2014, 02:37 PM
http://i60.tinypic.com/2qxalaf.png


A more accurate map.


???
???
?
Pretty sure nobody wants riots and people getting killed in protests

Obviously he never meant that. The fact that majority of the population wanted to have friendlier relations with the rest of Europe as opposed to being Russia's lapdog is what he was obviously referring to.

-:Undertaker:-
23-02-2014, 03:16 PM
Obviously he never meant that. The fact that majority of the population wanted to have friendlier relations with the rest of Europe as opposed to being Russia's lapdog is what he was obviously referring to.

Why do you say lapdog in relation to Russia but use the term 'friendlier' when it comes to relations with the west/EU? Do you really think that US does not pressure it's 'allies' in much the same way as Russia does? That's without even mentioning the EU which openly dominates it's member states.

The pro-Russia Government of Ukraine was elected by a majority in the Ukraine, not the other way around: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ukrainian_parliamentary_election,_2012 This Russia=bad and America=good Cold War mentality really needs to be put to bed.

The Don
23-02-2014, 03:28 PM
Why do you say lapdog in relation to Russia but use the term 'friendlier' when it comes to relations with the west/EU? Do you really think that US does not pressure it's 'allies' in much the same way as Russia does? That's without even mentioning the EU which openly dominates it's member states.

The pro-Russia Government of Ukraine was elected by a majority in the Ukraine, not the other way around: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ukrainian_parliamentary_election,_2012 This Russia=bad and America=good Cold War mentality really needs to be put to bed.

Because they actively want to become friendlier with the EU, they are being forced by Russia not to. Ukraine is (or was) very much still under heavy influence from the Kremlin, the same cannot be said about the EU, which is why they are Russia's lapdog. Pretty self explanatory, no?

In response to the Cold War tidbit http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corruption_in_Ukraine#Political_corruption

-:Undertaker:-
23-02-2014, 03:31 PM
Because they actively want to become friendlier with the EU, they are being forced by Russia not to. Ukraine is (or was) very much still under heavy influence from the Kremlin, the same cannot be said about the EU, which is why they are Russia's lapdog. Pretty self explanatory, no?

In response to the Cold War tidbit http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corruption_in_Ukraine#Political_corruption

How do you reach such a conclusion when the pro-Russian government won the election?

You'd be correct in saying that a large portion of the country wants closer ties with the European Union, yes. But so would a statement which says a large proportion of the country seeks closer ties with the Russian Federation instead. Both are correct, not just one BBC version.

The constant Russia bashing and anti-Russia propaganda in the western media is so transparent and boring.

The Don
23-02-2014, 03:42 PM
How do you reach such a conclusion when the pro-Russian government won the election?

You'd be correct in saying that a large portion of the country wants closer ties with the European Union, yes. But so would a statement which says a large proportion of the country seeks closer ties with the Russian Federation instead. Both are correct, not just one BBC version.

The constant Russia bashing and anti-Russia propaganda in the western media is so transparent and boring.

Yes, the government was pro-russian, that doesn't mean that truly reflected the population, as you very well know yourself. I never mentioned that pro-russian part because this thread is about the protests which is absolutely and solely about wanting closer ties with the EU and being less influenced by Russia. Which part of my post to Karter was incorrect? Arguing over semantics, Dan.

-:Undertaker:-
24-02-2014, 12:36 PM
Yes, the government was pro-russian, that doesn't mean that truly reflected the population, as you very well know yourself. I never mentioned that pro-russian part because this thread is about the protests which is absolutely and solely about wanting closer ties with the EU and being less influenced by Russia. Which part of my post to Karter was incorrect? Arguing over semantics, Dan.

The protests which took part in the west of the country. The idea that this revolution has been the whole of Ukraine pushing out a nasty pro-Russian government and replacing it with a nice friendly pro-EU government is something that the BBC has dreamt up. I can tell by the language you used in your post that that's how you see it as.

There are those in Ukraine wanting closer ties with the EU, and those wanting closer ties with Russia and it's roughly 50-50.

Want to hide these adverts? Register an account for free!