Lee Rigby killers sentenced

[-:Undertaker:-]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/terrorism-in-the-uk/10662836/Lee-Rigby-murderers-sentenced-to-life-in-prison.html

Lee Rigby murderers sentenced to life in prison

Michael Adebolajo has been sentenced to a "life means life" prison term for the killing of Drummer Lee Rigby while Michael Adebowale was sentenced to life with a minimum of 45 years


http://www.standard.co.uk/incoming/article9015540.ece/ALTERNATES/w620/rigpair.jpg


The Islamist killers of Drummer Lee Rigby erupted into violence in an Old Bailey courtroom as they were sentenced for murder yesterday.

Michael Adebolajo, 29, and Michael Adebowale, 22, had to be manhandled out of court by security guards after being told by Mr Justice Sweeney that their crime was a “betrayal of Islam”.

Adebolajo screamed at the judge as he was manhandled down the dock stairs in the historic Court No 2 but, in scenes lasting several minutes, his co-defendant was held to the floor and cuffed before being carried downstairs head first.

Relatives of Drummer Rigby, who were sitting just three feet away from the dock, stood up and cowered away from the violence.

Eight dock officers wrestled with the killers, who hacked the 25-year-old soldier to death in May last year after running him over near his barracks in Woolwich, south-east London.

Drummer Rigby’s widow Rebecca was left sobbing uncontrollably at the scenes.

Angered by the judges’ comments about Islam, Adebowale stood up and shouted: “That’s a lie. It’s not a betrayal of Islam. You don’t know what Islam is.”

The struggle erupted as the murderer yelled: “I swear by Allah that America and Britain will never have any safety. Allahu Akbar [God is Great].”

After the defendants had been removed Mr Justice Sweeney resumed his sentencing to give Adebolajo a “whole-life” tariff, meaning he will spend the rest of his life in jail.

Adebowale was given life with a minimum term of 45 years.

The judge said the pair both became extremists and decided to “murder a soldier in public daylight” to advance their extremist cause.

He described the scene of the murder as a “bloodbath” and said they “butchered” Drummer Rigby.

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I would like to see both of them hanged as would most of the public if you go by the comments on the Daily Mail article.

Is it not time that we had a referendum on bringing back the death penalty for utter filth and SCUM like these two so we the public could finally have our say on whether we wanted the likes of these two to swing? You know, not only would I like to see them swing but i'd pull the trapdoor open myself if given the chance to. It'd be my pleasure. A great service to society.

Interestingly we'll never have the chance to vote on the death penalty because we know what would happen if the public were given the choice (ohhhhhh, democracy!) on whether or not to bring back the death penalty. I can only hope that, given how our 'justice' system is so **** at administering justice and punishment, that a fellow inmate/s manages to get his hands on these two.

Thoughts? Would you like to see them both swing?

[Kardan]

What do you think about the argument that the death penalty would be the easy way out for them?

[The Don]

And who would pull the trap door on your then Dan, since you would also be murdering someone? I don't think the state should ever have the legal right to kill its own citizens.

[wixard]

i don't agree with the death penalty simply because i think that at times it can be an easier sentencing than life in prison

less than a minutes suffering until they're gone....

[-:Undertaker:-]

What do you think about the argument that the death penalty would be the easy way out for them?

That may be the case if the prisons in this country actually constituted an living hell..... although if they were, we'd still have the same kinds of people who opppose the death penalty then campaigning for the rights of prisoners concerning their human rights.

No, I believe in death as the ultimate punishment (as do criminals themselves) and would like to see them both hanged.


And who would pull the trap door on your then Dan, since you would also be murdering someone? I don't think the state should ever have the legal right to kill its own citizens.

So you are against self defence too? ie, in both war and an individual? Because that is the principle you are arguing on.

I am not against all murder. I see the fact that in some restrained circumstances, the taking of another life is the right thing to do: such as in a war where we have been attacked or put under threat, somebody breaks into my home or the death penalty. I am not a pacifist and have never claimed to be.


i don't agree with the death penalty simply because i think that at times it can be an easier sentencing than life in prison

less than a minutes suffering until they're gone....

I'm sure they'll be crying into their pillows everynight with our harsh prisons after eating a curry that night containing halal meat as to not 'offend' the muslim prisoners - as all meat in prisons is now served. It's like i've said before - our government cares more about the sensitivites of the criminals over the law abiding majority. Prisoners in this country are treated with more care than many old age pensioners, and it disgusts me.

[Kardan]

our government cares more about the sensitivites of the criminals over the law abiding majority.

Nice exaggeration there.

If the death penalty was ever reintroduced, it wouldn't be death by hanging anyway - so good luck ever getting anyone hanged by the government.

[Evanora]

I'm sure they'll be crying into their pillows everynight with our harsh prisons after eating a curry that night containing halal meat as to not 'offend' the muslim prisoners - as all meat in prisons is now served. It's like i've said before - our government cares more about the sensitivites of the criminals over the law abiding majority. Prisoners in this country are treated with more care than many old age pensioners, and it disgusts me.

So you think prisons shouldn't serve halal meat and show a blatant disrespect to the Muslim religion? If so, that is an extremely ignorant view. Would you say Jewish prisoners should be denied kosher food? Or is it just because you believe Muslim's deserve the lack of respect more?

[The Don]

So you are against self defence too? ie, in both war and an individual? Because that is the principle you are arguing on.

I am not against all murder. I see the fact that in some restrained circumstances, the taking of another life is the right thing to do: such as in a war where we have been attacked or put under threat, somebody breaks into my home or the death penalty. I am not a pacifist and have never claimed to be.

Self defence is completely different to the execution of someone. The criminal is an active threat in self defence situations, when they are locked up they are now under the control of the guards and are no longer a threat. The first two examples are completely different to the death penalty (War, self defence).

[Zak]

What do you think about the argument that the death penalty would be the easy way out for them?

I agree with this - didn't they want the cops to kill them in the first place?

[Joshirin]

they deserve to rot, capitalist punishment is right, and should be used in this case.

[Yawn]

the dailymail commenters are unbelievably thick so i'd never take their opinion seriously

hmm death penalty is a tricky 1 cos like ppl said earlier in the thread u have a lifetime of jail where they actually pay for their actions whereas death is a quick way out. but then once they are dead they are dead so it doesnt rly matter anyway. but no i dont agree with death penalty it doesnt sit right with me having the power to take some1s life

[Cerys]

I don't think the death penalty should be given to them. Torture on the other hand though sounds very fitting in this situation.....


Does anyone know why the guy got life means life but the other guy only got a minimum of 45 years? Was it because his outbreak in court raised his sentence or did the other guy just hm.. do less damage to Lee Rigby *RIP* or did an early guilty plea etcetc?

[e5]

Glad they're off to street, in whatever way. 2 less murderers.

[-:Undertaker:-]

Nice exaggeration there.

Where is the exaggeration? We saw it with the Tony Martin case.


If the death penalty was ever reintroduced, it wouldn't be death by hanging anyway - so good luck ever getting anyone hanged by the government.

How do you know? France only abolished their favourite method of execution (the gulliotine) a few decades ago.

In any case, whether it's by hanging/electric hair or lethal injection... I want to see it reintroduced.


So you think prisons shouldn't serve halal meat and show a blatant disrespect to the Muslim religion? If so, that is an extremely ignorant view. Would you say Jewish prisoners should be denied kosher food? Or is it just because you believe Muslim's deserve the lack of respect more?

Yes I would say that Jewish prisoners should be denied kosher food, absolutely. If you go to prison you are denied whatever preferences you may have on the outside when free - the entire lot of them should be served the cheapest most unpleasant food that the prison can buy. That's called punishment, something our prisons now lack because hand wringers like you are more concerned about the rights of prisoners when in prison than their actual punishment for what they did to their victims.

If you want to talk about being offensive, what offends me is the way that Islamic groups in this country have used lobbying to mean that most schools and public restaurants now sell halal meat (without labelling) to EVERYBODY as opposed to just muslims. It is again another example of a small minority bending society to do what it wants. I am offended that we all have to have our menus dictated to now incase it upsets Islam.

If not serving these two animals halal meat in prison offends them then good.


Self defence is completely different to the execution of someone. The criminal is an active threat in self defence situations, when they are locked up they are now under the control of the guards and are no longer a threat. The first two examples are completely different to the death penalty (War, self defence).

You said I would be hanged too for committing a murder when you ignorantly ignored the fact that the death penalty is legal murder much in the same way that killing on a battlefield is legal murder or self defence is legal murder. In any case, I view the death penalty as society's defence against evil.

But let's have a referendum on it (which we've never been granted) and see what the rest of the public think.

[Inseriousity.]

Lee Rigby's girlfriend doesn't want to see them hanged cos it'd be giving them what they want (they wanted to die, to be martyrs).

[Kardan]

Where is the exaggeration? We saw it with the Tony Martin case.

Seriously? So you reckon the government does more for prisoners than non-prisoners?

Please give me all the things the government have done recently for prisoners, and please try and explain how that out-numbers the things the government have done for non-prisoners (Aka, most of the entire country).

[-:Undertaker:-]

Seriously? So you reckon the government does more for prisoners than non-prisoners?

Please give me all the things the government have done recently for prisoners, and please try and explain how that out-numbers the things the government have done for non-prisoners (Aka, most of the entire country).

I'm talking about the criminal justice system, not wheelie bin collections.

I simply think that the number of times that habitual criminals are let off in this country, 999 calls go unanswered, violent crime rises, criminals are let out early after they are eventually sent to prison or not put in at all - and thats without mentioning how they are treated inside of prison - gives me the impression that the criminal justice system is on the side of the criminal class rather than the law abiding majority. If you read the comments in newspapers on stories regarding crime, you'll often find that many feel the very same way too.

Public faith in all of our rotting institutions is going the same way, down the plughole. I now have no faith that murderers or child abusers for example will be truly punished in prison and that's why I now have to, with regret, hope that somebody inside of the prison will get hold of them. It pains me to support mob justice and mob rule, but when the state won't do it's basic job properly then I have little choice.

[The Don]

If you compare the prison systems of Norway and other countries which focus on rehabilitation you will notice a big difference between the reoffending rates. The justice system is not there to punish or for retribution, if you want that I suggest you move to a country practicing sharia law. I'd much rather follow the more successful and progressive system of rehabilitation, than the blood thirsty regressive system we used during during the middle ages.

[-:Undertaker:-]

If you compare the prison systems of Norway and other countries which focus on rehabilitation you will notice a big difference between the reoffending rates. The justice system is not there to punish or for retribution, if you want that I suggest you move to a country practicing sharia law. I'd much rather follow the more successful and progressive system of rehabilitation, than the blood thirsty regressive system we used during during the middle ages.

The rehabilitation myth is well and truly alive it seems. Rehabilitation is a myth for the very fact that is focuses on those who are least likely to reoffend. For example, a man who kills his wife in a fit of rage that's been building for a number of years is unlikely to reoffend so why not let him out? We don't let him out because the justice system is designed on the principle of justice and punishment... as well as acting as a deterrent. In very much the same way that, as Peter Hitchens has pointed out here in the UK, those selected for rehabilitation have been those deemed least likely to reoffend so therefore you end up with good 'rehabilitation' figures.

As for the comparison with Sharia Law, this goes to show just what liberalism does to people and the rot it makes them talk. There is nothing bloodthirsty or barbaric about desiring justice. If the justice system does not administer justice, then it is up to the people to do it - and I would.

[The Don]

The rehabilitation myth is well and truly alive it seems. Rehabilitation is a myth for the very fact that is focuses on those who are least likely to reoffend. For example, a man who kills his wife in a fit of rage that's been building for a number of years is unlikely to reoffend so why not let him out? We don't let him out because the justice system is designed on the principle of justice and punishment... as well as acting as a deterrent. In very much the same way that, as Peter Hitchens has pointed out here in the UK, those selected for rehabilitation have been those deemed least likely to reoffend so therefore you end up with good 'rehabilitation' figures.

As for the comparison with Sharia Law, this goes to show just what liberalism does to people and the rot it makes them talk. There is nothing bloodthirsty or barbaric about desiring justice. If the justice system does not administer justice, then it is up to the people to do it - and I would.

Come back when you acknowledge the reoffending rates in a country such as Norway, compared to harsher systems in the US.

[-:Undertaker:-]

Come back when you acknowledge the reoffending rates in a country such as Norway, compared to harsher systems in the US.

I don't advocate a system like the US. That's like when I suggest bringing back the death penalty, people like you will turn around and suggest to me that I want a US style system concerning the death penalty.... when America doesn't really have a proper system of capital punishment.

Come back when you know what my stance on the criminal justice system actually is.

[The Don]

I don't advocate a system like the US. That's like when I suggest bringing back the death penalty, people like you will turn around and suggest to me that I want a US style system concerning the death penalty.... when America doesn't really have a proper system of capital punishment.

Come back when you know what my stance on the criminal justice system actually is.

Which country would be a fairer comparison to look at reoffending rates, then? Because Norway seems to be doing a cracking job at the moment.

[-:Undertaker:-]

Which country would be a fairer comparison to look at reoffending rates, then? Because Norway seems to be doing a cracking job at the moment.

This country's Police service and criminal justice system had a good reputation prior to the reforms that took place in the 1960s onwards.

I believe that like many things about this country, it's since been pulled apart and ruined.

[The Don]

I can't exactly dig up stats from the 60's, however I can look at other countries with the death penalty and compare them to more rehabilitating focussed systems, and the differences between reoffending rates is staggering.

[-:Undertaker:-]

I can't exactly dig up stats from the 60's, however I can look at other countries with the death penalty and compare them to more rehabilitating focussed systems, and the differences between reoffending rates is staggering.

I do not and have not recommended we follow either the American or some other criminal justice system.

I've always believed that the old British system was uniquely the best just as I believe our parliamentary system for example is the best.

[The Don]

I do not and have not recommended we follow either the American or some other criminal justice system.

I've always believed that the old British system was uniquely the best just as I believe our parliamentary system for example is the best.

Well, I can't look up the statistics for that, but again, if a particular system is doing really well (Norways) why not follow that method?

[Kyle]

I do not and have not recommended we follow either the American or some other criminal justice system.

I've always believed that the old British system was uniquely the best just as I believe our parliamentary system for example is the best.
Hmm... I fear you may be too hung up on the concept of a golden age of policing to acknowledge how far the british CJS has come as a whole since the 60s. Interested to know what it is that you think made the old British system 'uniquely the best' and what has changed your mind since then.