Ukip faces inquiry into abuse of party funds

[Chippiewill]

Nigel Farage faces an official inquiry into allegations that Ukip improperly diverted taxpayers’ money to fund its political operations.

Ukip staff were instructed to send invoices to a European body for work done in Britain. A whistleblower has told The Times that this meant that money was diverted back to the party’s headquarters, apparently against parliamentary rules.
The allegations are set to trigger an official “misuse-of-funds” investigation into Ukip before the critical European Parliament elections.

Mr Farage hopes that victory on May 22 will provide enough momentum for Ukip to achieve a breakthrough at the general election next year. That prospect, however, has brought greater scrutiny both of Ukip’s funding and its claim to be a political insurgency.

Ukip’s MEPs have received more than £2.4 million in allowances and expenses since their election in 2009, not including travel, despite having one of the worst attendance records of any party. However, the party’s alleged misuse of additional funds, which it receives as a member of a political grouping, the EFD, threatens to cause a huge embarrassment.http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/news/politics/article4027006.ece
I hate to post something pay-walled but the daily mail are the only others running the story and I'd rather shoot myself.

Bit funny for UKIP to be the ones doing this.

Thoughts?

[GommeInc]

Isn't this old news that they swindle their expenses when it comes to being MEPs? Farage got called out for it a while ago. If I was a Ukip MEP I would take my EU expenses allowance, not turn up to parliament (which many MEPs across the EU rarely do anyway as they see it as a waste of time) in protest and donate it to worthy causes across the EU. You may as well use the money for needy people, seeing as the EU doesn't particularly care about the needy and is only really interested in businesses and generating wealth.

[Chippiewill]

This is different from MEP expenses. This is UKIP using funds specifically aimed at paying for EFD employees to pay for employees in their own press office.

[The Don]

I find it hilarious how UKIP supporters somehow justify the misuse of taxpayers funds using such a whimsy excuse as "trying to spread a message", Yeh, I'm sure they're not benefitting from it (sarcasm)... If literally any other group not related to UKIP did anything vaguely similar i'm sure the same UKIP supporters would be calling for them to be lynched.

[FlyingJesus]

Hands up anyone that's actually surprised. It's a game they all play and by the time they get found out the damage is done and the criminals have already enjoyed the fruits of their fraud which is why none of them turn down the opportunity

[-:Undertaker:-]

http://www.ukip.org/newsroom/news/1242-ukip-party-statement-about-a-smear-campaign-by-the-times-newspaper-akin-to-the-one-it-ran-against-lord-ashcroft-15-years-ago-as-the-political-establishment-struggles-to-control-a-tidal-wave-of-support-for-the-party


“UKIP has been aware in recent weeks of relentless activity by Times journalists aiming to derail its rapid rise in popularity. This has included questioning about the private lives of party staff that would disgrace the now defunct News of The World.

“The Times is planning to run on Monday a series of claims that UKIP has breached the rules on using European parliamentary funds while campaigning to get Britain out of the EU.

“In fact UKIP has always worked hard to ensure that demarcations between EFD employees and party employees are properly observed. UKIP MEPs who donate to party funds do so out of their own post-tax salaries. UKIP MEPs work for withdrawal from the EU just as they promised the voters that they would when elected in 2009.

“It is clear that their success in advancing this agenda and increasing the popularity of the party has upset the political establishment and its media supporters.

“For the avoidance of doubt, UKIP MEPs are careful to observe European parliamentary rules when spending resources on advancing the goal of British withdrawal.

“UKIP has from the outset been the biggest constituent part of the EFD group and Nigel Farage is the group leader. It is wholly legitimate and within the rules for some EFD staff to work out of London and indeed staff from other groups that include other British political parties do the same.

“After the rapid growth of the party, UKIP has now put in place a bi-annual review as an extra check to ensure that staff responsibilities remain appropriately demarcated and that the actual work patterns of staff remain consistent.

“We anticipate being on the receiving end of a continued smear campaign from pro-EU journalists but will not allow it to deflect us from our mission to secure for the British people a vote on withdrawing from the EU and taking back powers of self-government and control of their borders.”

False story it appears to me.

If there is any truth in this story from the Times, then OLAF will be (rightly) on Ukip's case.

In terms of funding the party as the article states, Ukip MEPs do donate a large portion of their salaries to the party - perfectly legal. In terms of general EU funding which GommeInc (Ryan) alluded to, all parties with MEPs are entitled to use the 'allowances' system - which some tried to slur Farage with a few years ago by claiming he was personally benefitting from expenses rigging. He was not and if he was - as former Ukip MEP Tom Wise was - then OLAF would investigate and bring criminal charges.

The allowances system in the EU is there to be used to fund party staff, campaign literature and so on - all of which Ukip takes full advantage of, and so they should as it's Britain's money being claimed back.

[FlyingJesus]

Well that isn't true as was shown last time you tried to claim that they somehow don't benefit from huge salaries for jobs they don't attend and expenses they don't need

[-:Undertaker:-]

Well that isn't true as was shown last time you tried to claim that they somehow don't benefit from huge salaries for jobs they don't attend and expenses they don't need

Most of their salaries are donated back into the party - i'm not and have never been against MEPs being paid anyway or MPs, MEPs are paid the same as MPs are in any case. In regards to attendance, this has been talked about before - there's no point turning up to pointless voting on the standardisation of tractor seats (no, I didn't just make that up either). As the Editor of ConservativeHome said the other day:


Attacking UKIP for their MEPs not being enthusiastic participants in euro-legislating is a fool's game. Voters don't care about the EuroParl

Would I prefer Farage at home leading a campaign to get us out, or sitting in Brussels at pointless votes?

In any case, here's a Liberal Democrat trying this round of attack and being steamrolled by Helmer -



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fzcUY-tMl5k

[FlyingJesus]

"Voters don't care about the EuroParl" what a lovely sentiment, if only it were universally true. 33 of the UK's MEPs are supposed Eurosceptics (if we count all of the non-inscrits as Eurosceptics which to be fair they probably are) and the remaining 31 are pro-Europe, so quite clearly a lot of the voters do care. Either way, if you take a job you are expected to actually do it and not sit around pretending you know better than the role that's been defined for you. No-one else in the public sector can sit at home making posters and still collect their salary.

Also it's not just salaries that UKIP take without working - £420,000 in one year on hotels and meals (despite not going to meetings), £35,635 on average per member on "general expenditure" which doesn't seem to require itemisation, and employing their wives as supposed secretaries in order to keep the expense allowances in their own households. Well aware that the other parties all do the exact same thing but when UKIP are pretending to be different it's certainly cause for scrutiny.

All of that AND this new problem of using money that comes with specific uses for something far different. Tut tut.

[Chippiewill]

In terms of funding the party as the article states, Ukip MEPs do donate a large portion of their salaries to the party - perfectly legal.

That's clearly not what's happening:

The whistleblower said: “I was paid by the EFD group in the European Parliament, even though I worked exclusively for UKIP in the UK. The money was paid into my bank account directly from the EFD group.”

UKIP employees were being paid directly from the EFD.

[-:Undertaker:-]

"Voters don't care about the EuroParl" what a lovely sentiment, if only it were universally true. 33 of the UK's MEPs are supposed Eurosceptics (if we count all of the non-inscrits as Eurosceptics which to be fair they probably are) and the remaining 31 are pro-Europe, so quite clearly a lot of the voters do care. Either way, if you take a job you are expected to actually do it and not sit around pretending you know better than the role that's been defined for you. No-one else in the public sector can sit at home making posters and still collect their salary.

Uh, yes they can - Sinn Fein do in regards to the House of Commons, they don't sit based on their principle that British sovereignty in Northern Ireland isn't legit. Ukip faced this question years ago whether to do what Sinn Fein do and boycott the 'parliament' or whether to cause trouble there - they choose to cause trouble with the odd speech and voting.

People who vote Ukip are voting to leave the EU, they don't want to build Europe with directives and regulations on the standardisation of tractor seats & the harmonisation of financial regulations+taxation. I vote Ukip in the European elections specifically to make the campaign at home stronger - which is how we will get out. We will not get out by Nigel Farage spending most of his time over in France and Belgium in what is a mickey mouse parliament. We will get out (and thus make him redundant) by he and others holding public meetings around the country - something that real politicians used to do many years ago.

If you want your MEPs to 'build Europe' then vote LibLabCon.


Also it's not just salaries that UKIP take without working - £420,000 in one year on hotels and meals (despite not going to meetings), £35,635 on average per member on "general expenditure" which doesn't seem to require itemisation, and employing their wives as supposed secretaries in order to keep the expense allowances in their own households. Well aware that the other parties all do the exact same thing but when UKIP are pretending to be different it's certainly cause for scrutiny.

All of which is entirely legal and which funds things like campaign information, leaflets, offices, office staff and so on - which every political party does. If we can use some of the money we pay into the EU to fund a campaign giving the other side, then that's fine with me. But in any case I am against the funding of political parties, i'm against MEPs even existing and i'm against the EU. But as it stands, Ukip may aswell take the money on offer to help our cause.

The allowances system is corrupt and overly generous yes, but we may aswell use it.


All of that AND this new problem of using money that comes with specific uses for something far different. Tut tut.

Then let's see what OLAF say. So far these are only allegations.


That's clearly not what's happening:

UKIP employees were being paid directly from the EFD.

..so the allegations say. Again, let's see if OLAF manage to prove these allegations. After all, all the accounts for MEPs are audited every year and they haven't been found doing anything wrong.

[FlyingJesus]

Your fanatical allegiance to a group of people who use taxpayer money for personal gain and thus aren't genuinely going to want to cut off their own salaries by leaving Europe is cute. Your inability to actually respond to the points that have been made and instead bat them aside and talk about something else is not so cute.

[GommeInc]

Hands up anyone that's actually surprised. It's a game they all play and by the time they get found out the damage is done and the criminals have already enjoyed the fruits of their fraud which is why none of them turn down the opportunity
I'd be amazed if any politician didn't. In this day and age it comes with the title. It's like a Royal scandal involving sex outside of marriage or some other story which isn't surprising any more :P

[-:Undertaker:-]

Your fanatical allegiance to a group of people who use taxpayer money for personal gain and thus aren't genuinely going to want to cut off their own salaries by leaving Europe is cute. Your inability to actually respond to the points that have been made and instead bat them aside and talk about something else is not so cute.

They aren't personally gaining though, that is a lie. You seem to be confusing EU allowances with British expenses when they are two totally different things, hence the short response. The personal wages of the Ukip MEPs are mostly handed over to the party, the allowances system is spent on the party (which is what it is for) and not going into their pockets. A Ukip MEP did once fiddle the expenses to personally benefit himself (Tom Wise) and he was expelled from the party instantly and faced criminal charges. The sooner Ukip, Tory, Labour, Green, BNP, SNP and Liberal Democrat MEPs are all fired is the day Ukip will have completed it's raison d'etre. Indeed if anything, most of the Ukip MEPs have actually not only donated their wages to the party/campaigning but have also donated extra money on top of that which they earnt when working in real jobs. Godfrey Bloom spent tens of thousands of his own cash in Yorkshire over a decade.

If they are on the gravytrain and are committing fraud then OLAF will come down on them - something the EU would jump at if it had the chance. Again, all this is simply allegations published in a Tory newspaper before the Euro elections.

I am fanatical about getting my country's sovereignty back though, you're right there.

[FlyingJesus]

How on earth can you can claim that they don't gain personally from £420,000 worth of hotel bills, an average of ~£35,000 per person on unnamed general expenses (for a job they don't do), and putting their wives on payroll? There are more ways to abuse taxpayer money than carrying it out of a bank in a bag marked SWAG while dressed in black and white stripes

Many congratulations on once again talking about something completely different to the point you're supposedly refuting though, good show

[The Don]

How on earth can you can claim that they don't gain personally from £420,000 worth of hotel bills, an average of ~£35,000 per person on unnamed general expenses (for a job they don't do), and putting their wives on payroll? There are more ways to abuse taxpayer money than carrying it out of a bank in a bag marked SWAG while dressed in black and white stripes

Many congratulations on once again talking about something completely different to the point you're supposedly refuting though, good show

No, but you see they need all those hotels for the meetings they don't attend.

[Chippiewill]

Maybe Nigel actually likes being an MEP for the pay and only pretends to be euro-sceptic to justify not turning up for work.

[-:Undertaker:-]

How on earth can you can claim that they don't gain personally from £420,000 worth of hotel bills, an average of ~£35,000 per person on unnamed general expenses (for a job they don't do), and putting their wives on payroll? There are more ways to abuse taxpayer money than carrying it out of a bank in a bag marked SWAG while dressed in black and white stripes

Is that the party as a whole? Is that from all of the MEPs? It's like how it was claimed that Farage and Ukip had spent £2m on allowances....... which was true, over a ten year period on campaigning literature, office staff, offices, essentials and so on. That's standard, although it didn't stop the Guardian trying it on.

In terms of personally benefitting, all of the allowances money must be accounted for as far as I am aware and accounts are audited every year for the MEPs..... if Farage and Ukip were abusing the allowances system then there would be irregularities in the accounts submitted and it would become a criminal matter with OLAF involved. I think this was exactly the charge that former Ukip MEP (he was expelled immediately) Tom Wise was investigated and charged on.

You can disagree with the allowances system as I do, but you cannot claim that Farage and others are personally pocketing cash that is not from their wage payments of £70k a year.


Many congratulations on once again talking about something completely different to the point you're supposedly refuting though, good show

Or rather that's what happens whenever this topic is dragged up, people have a problem differentiating between the Westminster expenses system and the Brussels allowances one.


Maybe Nigel actually likes being an MEP for the pay and only pretends to be euro-sceptic to justify not turning up for work.

Yes, he left a high-salary job in the city to slave away on lower wages in politics. Right.

And again, the point has already been made on attendance - we don't expect Ukip politicians to turn up for pointless votes in Brussels. That's what the other lot believe in. We're more concerned about the domestic political front and campaigning in this country to convince Britons rather than Jose Barroso, hence why Ukip councillors have the highest attendance records of any of the main parties: http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/news/politics/article3967236.ece

Ukip councillors lead the way in meetings


Ukip councillors have a better attendance rate than colleagues from any of the three main parties.

In findings likely to irritate the Conservatives, an analysis by The Times has revealed that its elected officials attended 92.4 per cent of compulsory meetings.

In second place were the Conservatives, on 88.6 per cent. Labour came next on 88.3 per cent, while the Lib Dems, famed for their local activism, trailed on 87.7.

[The Don]

Yes, he left a high-salary job in the city to slave away on lower wages in politics. Right.

I thought you keep saying he had a regular job like the average joe before politics?...

[-:Undertaker:-]

I thought you keep saying he had a regular job like the average joe before politics?...

Nope. My statement wasn't that he had a regular joe job, it was that at least he had a job before politics - unlike Clegg, Cameron and Miliband who have all been in political jobs since leaving university.

It's why I cringe in my politics classes that most of them hope to graduate and go straight into politics. Completely the wrong attitude to have and why our political class are so out of touch with the real world nowadays.

[FlyingJesus]

Is that the party as a whole? Is that from all of the MEPs? It's like how it was claimed that Farage and Ukip had spent £2m on allowances....... which was true, over a ten year period on campaigning literature, office staff, offices, essentials and so on. That's standard, although it didn't stop the Guardian trying it on.

It's the UKIP MEPs in 2012. One year.


In terms of personally benefitting, all of the allowances money must be accounted for as far as I am aware and accounts are audited every year for the MEPs..... if Farage and Ukip were abusing the allowances system then there would be irregularities in the accounts submitted and it would become a criminal matter with OLAF involved. I think this was exactly the charge that former Ukip MEP (he was expelled immediately) Tom Wise was investigated and charged on.

Aaaaand you're still not getting the point: legal or not, UKIP MEPs are taking tens of thousands each per year from European tax expenses while claiming to be against the whole system


You can disagree with the allowances system as I do, but you cannot claim that Farage and others are personally pocketing cash that is not from their wage payments of £70k a year.

Yes I can due to THE MASSIVE FIGURES THAT I'VE REPEATEDLY POSTED which are not part of their salary. Seriously are you just not reading what's put down or do you not understand what an expense claim is? I'll give you a clue it's when you charge someone else for things that you've bought


Or rather that's what happens whenever this topic is dragged up, people have a problem differentiating between the Westminster expenses system and the Brussels allowances one.

Nope I don't think anyone's claiming that they're taking money from the same pot that normal MPs get it from, try again

[-:Undertaker:-]

It's the UKIP MEPs in 2012. One year.

Yes, and so?

Again, if anything was being stolen then it would be investigates by OLAF.


Aaaaand you're still not getting the point: legal or not, UKIP MEPs are taking tens of thousands each per year from European tax expenses while claiming to be against the whole system

Absolutely, to fund the campaign to get out - not, as you make out, to line their own pockets. The allowances system may be wrong and I agree, but if we can use some of that money (which is British money) to combat the EU's huge multimillion pound propaganda budget, the main three political parties who also use allowances to spend on campaigning and the media - then so we should. If you suggest that Ukip shouldn't take anything from the EU and shouldn't turn up at all like Sinn Fein then that's another argument, but I think we should take advantage of the money the EU makes available and use it against the EU.

Travelling around European capitals & hosting media events costs a lot - SHOCKER!!!!!


Yes I can due to THE MASSIVE FIGURES THAT I'VE REPEATEDLY POSTED which are not part of their salary. Seriously are you just not reading what's put down or do you not understand what an expense claim is? I'll give you a clue it's when you charge someone else for things that you've bought

The expenses and allowances will run high, yeah. But to suggest they are personally benefitting or committing fraud is false as OLAF haven't taken any action. As long as the money is going into anti-EU campaigning (which is what allowances are for) as opposed to their personal pockets via fraudulent expenses claims then I have not got a problem with it.

Travelling around European capitals & hosting media events costs a lot - SHOCKER!!!!!


Nope I don't think anyone's claiming that they're taking money from the same pot that normal MPs get it from, try again

Again you don't understand what I am saying. I am not saying they are from the same pot, I am pointing out that the Westminster expenses system came under fire because it was for purely personal use by MPs to cover travel costs and hotel bookings - something many were making up as to claim extra expenses. The allowances system in the EU is different in that it allows for the money to be spent on office staff, offices and campaign literature: with bonus funding if you are subscribed to a EU-wide party like the EFD. I disagree with such a system as I don't believe in state funding of political parties, however Ukip are right to take advantage of it.

Do you understand that?

[FlyingJesus]

Yes, and so?

And so your attempt at saying that it's over the last 10 years is proven false... really how hard is it to look at what part of your inane posts I'm replying to?


Absolutely, to fund the campaign to get out - not, as you make out, to line their own pockets. The allowances system may be wrong and I agree, but if we can use some of that money (which is British money) to combat the EU's huge multimillion pound propaganda budget, the main three political parties who also use allowances to spend on campaigning and the media - then so we should. If you suggest that Ukip shouldn't take anything from the EU and shouldn't turn up at all like Sinn Fein then that's another argument, but I think we should take advantage of the money the EU makes available and use it against the EU.

Christ alive you really can't read can you? £420,000 on hotel bills and meals out are not the same as a few hundred on a campaign poster, and hiring your wife for £30k a year in order to *+*KeeP THe MoNeY iiN THe HouSeHoLD*+* is a hilarious pretence for "campaigning and the media"


The expenses and allowances will run high, yeah. But to suggest they are personally benefitting or committing fraud is false as OLAF haven't taken any action. As long as the money is going into anti-EU campaigning (which is what allowances are for) as opposed to their personal pockets via fraudulent expenses claims then I have not got a problem with it.

Haven't said they're committing fraud, do try reading what's actually being said darling. Not sure why you keep banging on about pockets when it's really extremely obvious (from the words that I've actually written; if you read them instead of making up arguments that haven't been put forward it makes things easier) that no-one's pretending that they're taking home the hundreds of thousands that they're needlessly spending on personal comforts like first class travel/accomodation, but that such things are quite blatantly a personal benefit that they're taking


Again you don't understand what I am saying. I am not saying they are from the same pot, I am pointing out that the Westminster expenses system came under fire because it was for purely personal use by MPs to cover travel costs and hotel bookings - something many were making up as to claim extra expenses. The allowances system in the EU is different in that it allows for the money to be spent on office staff, offices and campaign literature: with bonus funding if you are subscribed to a EU-wide party like the EFD. I disagree with such a system as I don't believe in state funding of political parties, however Ukip are right to take advantage of it.

AGAIN £420,000 in one year on hotel bills. They also get all first class travel costs claimed for, so that number doesn't even include all of that. Office expenses for that year came to £370,000 for UKIP MEPs, so they have quite clearly claimed more for their personal pleasure and comfort than they have for supposed campaign costs. Hilarious that you then bring up EFD when that's exactly what they're being investigated for at the moment and what this thread was about before you took it off track by talking about something completely different as usual


Do you understand that?

Far better than you, clearly

[The Don]

Love how Dan keeps beating around the bush. I would like to add that just because something is not illegal does not mean it's morally right and exempt from criticism. Saying "Oh but its not illegal" is not in any way, shape or form a suitable defence as nobody is questioning whether it's lawful or not.

[-:Undertaker:-]

And so your attempt at saying that it's over the last 10 years is proven false... really how hard is it to look at what part of your inane posts I'm replying to?

I was just asking. You are all over the place, you don't even understand the allowances system.


Christ alive you really can't read can you? £420,000 on hotel bills and meals out are not the same as a few hundred on a campaign poster, and hiring your wife for £30k a year in order to *+*KeeP THe MoNeY iiN THe HouSeHoLD*+* is a hilarious pretence for "campaigning and the media"

And again you totally miss it. Hotel bills for a group of 10+ MEPs who travel across European capitals from Prague to Brussels, Paris to London and Berlin to Stockholm along with allowance funding that cover HUGE constituencies (not on the same scale as Westminster ones)... it's expected to run into quite high bills really, isn't it?

Here's a graphic to help you understand.

http://www.europarl.org.uk/resource/static/images/MEPs/mep_map.gif

Let's say there is a Ukip MEP for every one of those constituencies. They are allowed, and entirely entitled, to fund a campaign along with literature and leaflets to go out across that entire region - some of which have MILLIONS of people living in or hundreds of thousands.

Unlike a Westminster constituency of 70,000 odd. Which is why I support FPTP over PR lists.

And if the wife can be proven (by the auditing OLAF) to be doing the work she is paid for then I haven't a problem with that. Most companies, political parties and smaller jobs hire friends and family for work - it is often as they say not what you know but who you know.

£420,000 divided by 12 is around £35,000-a-year in expenses each. That's not a stupendous amount for a jobt that requirements constant travelling, media events and hotel bookings - as well as train fares.


Haven't said they're committing fraud, do try reading what's actually being said darling. Not sure why you keep banging on about pockets when it's really extremely obvious (from the words that I've actually written; if you read them instead of making up arguments that haven't been put forward it makes things easier) that no-one's pretending that they're taking home the hundreds of thousands that they're needlessly spending on personal comforts like first class travel/accomodation, but that such things are quite blatantly a personal benefit that they're taking

Yes you are. You are attempting to paint the picture that the MEPs are on the take - as many have been - in regards to expenses when it's not a simple London to Brussels job whilst serving a small electorate of 70,000 thousand odd. MEPs, and I know Ukip ones do, travel across the continent and stay in expensive cities like Prague (http://www.ukipmeps.org/uploads/file/farage-18-06-2012-klaus-600.jpg) which is a part of their job.

That's another reason why an EU parliament is such a lunatic idea. The travelling costs, media costs and translation costs are immensely high just to keep the thing running.


AGAIN £420,000 in one year on hotel bills. They also get all first class travel costs claimed for, so that number doesn't even include all of that. Office expenses for that year came to £370,000 for UKIP MEPs, so they have quite clearly claimed more for their personal pleasure and comfort than they have for supposed campaign costs. Hilarious that you then bring up EFD when that's exactly what they're being investigated for at the moment and what this thread was about before you took it off track by talking about something completely different as usual

What would you have them do? If they had rented an apartment in Brussels (which I suspect would be expensive) then you'd be complaining that there's little point as they're never there anyway. So how can they win? It may have escaped you but they've got to sleep somewhere y'know.


Far better than you, clearly

Ooooh.

[-:Undertaker:-]

Here's the video with Farage being questioned on his expenses.



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X4lmuLI81SU

Or an even better one talking about allowances and Farage with Dartmouth..... from 15:30 to 18:00.

[CENTER]
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WANZFjJ7TlY[/CENTER

As he says, he represents an area that covers 55 UK constituencies yet only has a budget that is slightly higher than that of a single Westminster MP.

[The Don]

Here's the video with Farage being questioned on his expenses.



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X4lmuLI81SU

Or an even better one talking about allowances and Farage with Dartmouth..... from 15:30 to 18:00.

[CENTER]
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WANZFjJ7TlY[/CENTER

As he says, he represents an area that covers 55 UK constituencies yet only has a budget that is slightly higher than that of a single Westminster MP.

But he doesn't go to most of the meetings which sort of ruins your entire argument.

[FlyingJesus]

£420,000 divided by 12 is around £35,000-a-year in expenses each. That's not a stupendous amount for a jobt that requirements constant travelling, media events and hotel bookings - as well as train fares.

How can I put this simply...


THAT FIGURE IS JUST HOTELS AND MEALS
JUST
HOTELS
AND
MEALS

NOT TRAVEL
NOT EVENTS
NOT CAMPAIGN COSTS

JUST HOTELS AND MEALS

Your inability to read is astounding, almost as pathetic as your fanatical support for people completely failing to do the job you think they're doing


Yes you are. You are attempting to paint the picture that the MEPs are on the take

No I'm not, thanks for again (as you have in every single post) putting words in my mouth that I haven't come close to


What would you have them do? If they had rented an apartment in Brussels (which I suspect would be expensive) then you'd be complaining that there's little point as they're never there anyway. So how can they win? It may have escaped you but they've got to sleep somewhere y'know.

I would have them not claim for the most expensive places they could possibly find, especially when they're pretending to be about saving the public money. It may have escaped you but penthouse suites are not the only place one can sleep y'know

[-:Undertaker:-]

But he doesn't go to most of the meetings which sort of ruins your entire argument.

Not the meetings no, but Farage does attend 55% odd of the parliamentary votes - most of which are pointless anyway. Ontop of that, he's got to manage the EFD which holds media conferences on the continent in Belgium in France. Most of Farage's personal expenses will be spent in the UK since he's here most of the time.

I posted a while back that when I attended a meeting in Liverpool centre, Farage had to leave early (and had been travelling all morning) right after his speech to do more media engagements in others parts of the country as well as town meetings which he holds quite often. Bloom (now independent MEP) also travels the country visiting universities weekly.

[The Don]

Not the meetings no, but Farage does attend 55% odd of the parliamentary votes - most of which are pointless anyway. Ontop of that, he's got to manage the EFD which holds media conferences on the continent in Belgium in France. Most of Farage's personal expenses will be spent in the UK since he's here most of the time.

I posted a while back that when I attended a meeting in Liverpool centre, Farage had to leave early (and had been travelling all morning) right after his speech to do more media engagements in others parts of the country as well as town meetings which he holds quite often. Bloom (now independent MEP) also travels the country visiting universities weekly.

If they're reaping the benefits they should do the work.

[-:Undertaker:-]

How can I put this simply...


THAT FIGURE IS JUST HOTELS AND MEALS
JUST
HOTELS
AND
MEALS

NOT TRAVEL
NOT EVENTS
NOT CAMPAIGN COSTS

JUST HOTELS AND MEALS

Your inability to read is astounding, almost as pathetic as your fanatical support for people completely failing to do the job you think they're doing

Source? In any case, that's pretty standard for people who travel 24/7.


I would have them not claim for the most expensive places they could possibly find, especially when they're pretending to be about saving the public money. It may have escaped you but penthouse suites are not the only place one can sleep y'know

I haven't seen their expenses forms nor the hotels they've stayed in so I can't judge, although you may be able to given that you seem to know every little detail on where they sleep.

And again it may have escaped you, but places to stay in Brussels/London/Prague are quite expensive.

- - - Updated - - -


If they're reaping the benefits they should do the work.

They do the work - mainly in the UK.

You don't vote Ukip and you support the EU - so naturally you will want them sitting in committee rooms and that pointless parliament which you probably want to become the federal parliament. Ukip voters like myself however have complete contempt for that 'parliament' and really don't care what goes on in it as we simply want out of the whole damn thing. As a Ukip voter, I want my MEPs travelling up and down this country campaigning for us to get out - and I am satisfied with their efforts.

[FlyingJesus]

people who travel 24/7.

And again it may have escaped you, but places to stay in Brussels/London/Prague are quite expensive.

They do the work - mainly in the UK.

I want my MEPs travelling up and down this country

Flippity floppity


Also the source is the same one as the last time you failed to actually explain anything properly (http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/ukip-leader-nigel-farage-euro-3012708)

[-:Undertaker:-]

Flippity floppity

Not at all. I have read more about this story anyway and apparently the allegations come from a former employee - as do silly other attacks that the Daily Mail have printed (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2577335/Inside-Ukip-freakshow-Workers-partys-bizarre-HQ.html#comments) - in that a member of the Ukip NEC wanted the MEPs a few years back to fund the main office via EFD funding. From what I have read, some of which I will post below, the MEPs including Gerard Batten refuted Bown via email and pointed out that doing such would be illegal and risk prison.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/ukip/10687264/Ukip-MEPs-told-to-divert-allowances-to-party.html


Ukip MEPs were asked to divert funds from their Brussels salaries and allowances to the party’s central office, it has emerged.

MEPs were told to give “a minimum of £10,000 per annum” to the party’s coffers in an email sent to the party’s MEPs by Alan Bown, a Ukip donor and member of the party’s National Executive Committee.

Funding domestic political activities with European Parliament allowances may breach rules that require such expenses to be directly linked to the work of an MEP’s office.

The email, sent in June 2011, said: “Most MEPs drew a salary of £80k+ per year plus generous expenses of approximately £320k, some of which does not require receipts.”

Mr Bown said it costs the part £125,000 to get each MEP elected but many have a “very poor record of helping the party financially.”

“Some MEPs do an excellent job for the party, but with some of them we have to ask ourselves whether they are good value for money at £125,000,” the Times quoted him as writing.

In a statement, the party insisted its MEPs did not break any rules.

“Ukip MEPs who donate to party funds do so out of their own post-tax salaries. Ukip MEPs work for withdrawal from the EU just as they promised the voters that they would when elected in 2009. For the avoidance of doubt, Ukip MEPs are careful to observe European parliamentary rules when spending resources on advancing the goal of British withdrawal.”

Asked does not mean they did. These are just allegations from a peeved off former employee.


Also the source is the same one as the last time you failed to actually explain anything properly (http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/ukip-leader-nigel-farage-euro-3012708)

Oh come on, the Daily Mirror as a source? :P

[FlyingJesus]

Yeah just imagine a newspaper doing investigations and reporting on the outcomes what a hearty joke! And this coming from someone who gets annoyed when someone slates the Mail

[-:Undertaker:-]

Yeah just imagine a newspaper doing investigations and reporting on the outcomes what a hearty joke!

Not really, the Daily Mirror is piss poor for a paper - it makes the Daily Mail celebrity section look like a broadsheet. Farage's allowances and expenses have been explained at the last European Elections in 2009 and this EFD funding story appears to just be former staff who have an axe to grind. That said, all of this slurring is expected from the Labour and especially Tory papers who are going to wage over the next 80 days the most dirty anti-Ukip campaign in history. We're going to see all kinds of headlines right upto NIGEL FARAGE EATS BABIES.

The bad news for them though is that the more Ukip is attacked and mocked, the better our poll ratings are. From Cameron calling us fruitcakes, to Clarke calling us clowns, to CCHQ looking up Facebook comments by Ukip councillor candidates and passing it to the pro-Tory papers...... everytime they try this sort of thing on it backfires on them so I really hope they keep it up.


And this coming from someone who gets annoyed when someone slates the Mail

Not at all. I don't get annoyed with people not liking the Mail or thinking it's awful - as it's weekday paper headline stories often are apart from some of it's journalists - what pisses me off is when the same people over and over again feel the need to make 'OH DAILY MAIL' comments on every single article with a link to the Daily Mail. I don't feel the need to do such a thing with stories posted from the Guardian and BBC.

[FlyingJesus]

You're totally right a 2009 speech completely explains 2012 expenses and 2014 misuses of funds

[-:Undertaker:-]

You're totally right a 2009 speech completely explains 2012 expenses

It's still exactly the same - the same system used by the EU is still in place in 2012 so of course the expenses claims and allowances will still be the same. It's like how MPs are paid £70k odd a year in 2014 - and they were in 2009.. so where is the story? There isn't. The Times is still launching attacks on Ukip today I read on Twitter, although they're just the usual cut and paste jobs.


2014 misuses of funds

CLAIMED* use of funds by a former employee who also claims that Ukip HQ allow pets in the office. OOooh.

[FlyingJesus]

The same system exists therefore the exact same claims will be made... with logic like that on display (along with your absolute classic "giving proof that I'm wrong means you're wrong") I understand why you're so unable to put forth a genuine argument, but understanding it doesn't make it any less ridiculous when you come up with this nonsense

[-:Undertaker:-]

The same system exists therefore the exact same claims will be made... with logic like that on display (along with your absolute classic "giving proof that I'm wrong means you're wrong") I understand why you're so unable to put forth a genuine argument, but understanding it doesn't make it any less ridiculous when you come up with this nonsense

Not at all, this is all being presented as though something over the past few years has suddenly sprung to our attention and that there's something wrong with it when it's the same for all the political parties in the EU 'parliament' - Farage having been there since 1999 will naturally have racked up higher costs, that's logical. The EFD story I will admit is a new claim that the Times newspaper has picked up on, but the allowances and expenses stuff? Been there and done that back in 2009. The story is like reheated pizza.

[FlyingJesus]

Aaaaaaaaand we're back to you not reading posts properly. Farage could have been there since the dawn of time but that (still) has nothing to do with his party's figures for one specific year. You're arguing against something that hasn't been said

Also when you reheat pizza it has a completely different texture and it all changes noticeably, thanks for making an analogy that totally supports what I've been saying that's very kind of you

[-:Undertaker:-]

Aaaaaaaaand we're back to you not reading posts properly. Farage could have been there since the dawn of time but that (still) has nothing to do with his party's figures for one specific year. You're arguing against something that hasn't been said

Yes, and again - no irregularities.

The same as all other parties and the same as all past years. A non-story.


Also when you reheat pizza it has a completely different texture and it all changes noticeably, thanks for making an analogy that totally supports what I've been saying that's very kind of you

It's still the same crust beneath.

Same ****, different shovel.

[FlyingJesus]

The same as all other parties

Finally you get the point