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View Full Version : Ukraine fiasco marks end of the EU's imperial dream



-:Undertaker:-
23-03-2014, 02:35 PM
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/ukraine/10715805/Ukraine-fiasco-marks-end-of-the-EUs-imperial-dream.html

Ukraine fiasco marks end of the EU’s imperial dream

The EU, dedicated to eliminating national identity, has finally run up against the rock of a national interest that will not give way


http://i.telegraph.co.uk/multimedia/archive/02860/crimea-flags_2860228b.jpg
Pro-Russian demonstrators in Crimea: the West’s leaders haven’t a clue what to do


Normally when a country’s people give a referendum vote that the EU doesn’t like, they are just told to vote again to put it right. In the case of Crimea, however, where 96 per cent of the people voted to return to Russia, the EU was in no position to ask them to think again. Even if they did, considering that Crimea, where the tsars, Tolstoy and Chekhov used to spend their summers, has been part of Russia for most of the past 230 years, that 60 per cent of its people are ethnic Russians and that 82 per cent speak Russian at home, they would be unlikely to change their minds.

The hard fact is that, whatever we think of President Putin, this episode has been the most salutary fiasco the “European project” has ever brought upon itself in 60 years. It has always been driven by two paramount principles: one, that it can assume ever more power over the nations that belong to it; the other, that it can suck ever more of them into its embrace (echoed in David Cameron’s boast last year of how he saw the EU one day stretching “from the Atlantic to the Urals”). But with Ukraine, their fantasy of an ever-expanding empire has hit the buffers.

For years the EU has been wooing Ukraine with that “Association Agreement” as the next step towards making it a full member. But by pushing its “soft power” right up to the Russian border, this strange organisation dedicated to eliminating national identity has finally run up against the rock of a national interest that will not give way.

And to what a pitiful state this has reduced our own supposed “leaders” in the West. They haven’t a clue what to do. They blether about how Russia is “isolated”, and of those pathetic little “targeted” sanctions.

Chancellor Merkel talks wildly of how the G8, of which Russia is currently president, “no longer exists”. President Hollande calls on Britain to act against all those Russian oligarchs who have put £27 billion into London, when the UK knows it has £46 billion invested in Russia.

The EU’s leaders can scarcely afford to be too aggressive when it imports from Russia 30 per cent of its natural gas. They prattle instead about having to replace it with imports from the US, which, thanks to fracking, has now replaced Russia as the world’s biggest gas producer. But the US is only now building facilities to export some of it, and its preferred customer will not be Europe but Japan, desperate to make up for closing its nuclear power stations. Squawking around like chickens panicked by a fox, the EU’s politicians suddenly say, too late, that to end our dependence on Russia, we must get on with fracking for shale gas ourselves.

So the Ukrainians are trapped between a rock and a place that turns out to be too soft to help them, On Friday, when their acting prime minister, Arseniy Yatsenyuk, came to Brussels to sign that Association Agreement, the EU was so embarrassed that the ceremony had to take place behind closed doors, away from the eyes of the media. The poor man was not even allowed a microphone, but had to shout out his wish still to see Ukraine as an EU member.

The EU knows it is powerless to prevent Mr Putin in due course absorbing Ukraine’s Russian-speaking industrial heartland, leaving the EU to look after what remains of that bankrupt country, like a dismembered corpse. But there is no sign that those impotent nonentities who pose as our leaders have yet realised that their ambition to take over Ukraine must now rank alongside the euro as the two leading examples of how their collective act of make-believe is finally hitting the brick wall of reality.

Great article by Booker if anybody is interested.

The Don
23-03-2014, 03:42 PM
Well, that was perhaps the worst article i've ever had the misfortune of reading. Are the Eurosceptics that crazy that all facts seemingly evaporate at the slightest mention of that big bad EU? I'm still trying to wrap my head around that first paragraph, it's almost like they believe the results of the crimea referendum, or that either of the options would have resulted in anything other than a split from Ukraine. I also like how Booker compares how much Russia has invested in ONE CITY to what the ENTIRE UK has invested in Russia. If Russia has invested over half of what the entire UK has in Russia in just a single City then logic would suggest that Russia has got way more invested in the EU than vice versa. Here's the Russian trade partners
http://news.bbcimg.co.uk/media/images/73381000/gif/_73381797_russia_trade_partners_464gr.gif
Notice how their next 9 trading partners still amount to less than the EU. Whereas Russia is the 3rd biggest trading partner of the EU (percentage wise) Behind the US and China. Russia relies on the EU a whole lot more than the EU on Russia. It also amuses me to see Chrissy fail to mention the fact that a large percentage of Ukraine's citizens want closer union with the EU. Really pathetic attempt by booker at manipulating a situation which is vaguely relevant to the EU as ammunition against it.

-:Undertaker:-
23-03-2014, 04:03 PM
Well, that was perhaps the worst article i've ever had the misfortune of reading. Are the Eurosceptics that crazy that all facts seemingly evaporate at the slightest mention of that big bad EU? I'm still trying to wrap my head around that first paragraph, it's almost like they believe the results of the crimea referendum, or that either of the options would have resulted in anything other than a split from Ukraine. I also like how Booker compares how much Russia has invested in ONE CITY to what the ENTIRE UK has invested in Russia. If Russia has invested over half of what the entire UK has in Russia in just a single City then logic would suggest that Russia has got way more invested in the EU than vice versa. Here's the Russian trade partners
http://news.bbcimg.co.uk/media/images/73381000/gif/_73381797_russia_trade_partners_464gr.gif
Notice how their next 9 trading partners still amount to less than the EU. Whereas Russia is the 3rd biggest trading partner of the EU (percentage wise) Behind the US and China. Russia relies on the EU a whole lot more than the EU on Russia. It also amuses me to see Chrissy fail to mention the fact that a large percentage of Ukraine's citizens want closer union with the EU. Really pathetic attempt by booker at manipulating a situation which is vaguely relevant to the EU as ammunition against it.

What on earth are you on about? He's merely pointing out the fact that the EU has meddled in the Ukraine, it's gone wrong and although they're talking tough: there's nothing they can do about it as European countries, especially those in the east of Europe, rely heavily on Russia financially and in terms of the gas supply. The EU also won't dare go too hard on Putin either as half of Europe is bankrupt and any economic sanctions will severely affect those countries in southern Europe.

And as for..


It also amuses me to see Chrissy fail to mention the fact that a large percentage of Ukraine's citizens want closer union with the EU.

We eurosceptics don't deny that - of course Ukraine wants to join the EU as many of them will then be able to get out of the Ukraine and leave for western Europe (which means yet MORE uncontrolled immigration for us with all the crime and economic + social disadvantages it brings) as well as the fact that Ukraine will be able to recieve bucketloads of our cash (again, meaning the bankrupt UK will then be paying for yet another tinpot country on the other side of the planet).

If I was Ukraine I would probably join the EU too.

The Don
23-03-2014, 04:10 PM
What on earth are you on about? He's merely pointing out the fact that the EU has meddled in the Ukraine, it's gone wrong and although they're talking tough: there's nothing they can do about it as European countries, especially those in the east of Europe, rely heavily on Russia financially and in terms of the gas supply. The EU also won't dare go too hard on Putin either as half of Europe is bankrupt and any economic sanctions will severely affect those countries in southern Europe.

And as for..



We eurosceptics don't deny that - of course Ukraine wants to join the EU as many of them will then be able to get out of the Ukraine and leave for western Europe (which means yet MORE uncontrolled immigration for us with all the crime and economic + social disadvantages it brings) as well as the fact that Ukraine will be able to recieve bucketloads of our cash (again, meaning the bankrupt UK will then be paying for yet another tinpot country on the other side of the planet).

If I was Ukraine I would probably join the EU too.

Re-read the article if you don't understand my post.

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