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-:Undertaker:-
24-03-2014, 06:35 PM
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/health/healthnews/10717566/Aborted-babies-incinerated-to-heat-UK-hospitals.html

Aborted babies incinerated to heat UK hospitals

The remains of more than 15,000 babies were incinerated as 'clinical waste' by hospitals in Britain with some used in 'waste to energy' plants


http://i.telegraph.co.uk/multimedia/archive/02229/baby_2229536b.jpg
More than 15,000 aborted or miscarried babies were burned as 'clinical waste' an investigation has discovered


The bodies of thousands of aborted and miscarried babies were incinerated as clinical waste, with some even used to heat hospitals, an investigation has found.

Ten NHS trusts have admitted burning foetal remains alongside other rubbish while two others used the bodies in ‘waste-to-energy’ plants which generate power for heat.

Last night the Department of Health issued an instant ban on the practice which health minister Dr Dan Poulter branded ‘totally unacceptable.’

At least 15,500 foetal remains were incinerated by 27 NHS trusts over the last two years alone, Channel 4’s Dispatches discovered.

The programme, which will air tonight, found that parents who lose children in early pregnancy were often treated without compassion and were not consulted about what they wanted to happen to the remains.

One of the country’s leading hospitals, Addenbrooke’s in Cambridge, incinerated 797 babies below 13 weeks gestation at their own ‘waste to energy’ plant. The mothers were told the remains had been ‘cremated.’

Another ‘waste to energy’ facility at Ipswich Hospital, operated by a private contractor, incinerated 1,101 foetal remains between 2011 and 2013.

They were brought in from another hospital before being burned, generating energy for the hospital site. Ipswich Hospital itself disposes of remains by cremation.

“This practice is totally unacceptable,” said Dr Poulter.

“While the vast majority of hospitals are acting in the appropriate way, that must be the case for all hospitals and the Human Tissue Authority has now been asked to ensure that it acts on this issue without delay.”

Sir Bruce Keogh, NHS Medical Director, has written to all NHS trusts to tell them the practice must stop.

The Chief Medical Officer, Dame Sally Davies, has also written to the Human Tissue Authority to ask them make sure that guidance is clear.

And the Care Quality Commission said it would investigate the programme's findings.

Prof Sir Mike Richards, Chief Inspector of Hospitals, said: “I am disappointed trusts may not be informing or consulting women and their families.

“This breaches our standard on respecting and involving people who use services and I’m keen for Dispatches to share their evidence with us.

“We scrutinise information of concern and can inspect unannounced, if required.”

A total of one in seven pregnancies ends in a miscarriage, while NHS figures show there are around 4,000 stillbirths each year in the UK, or 11 each day.

Ipswich Hospital Trust said it was concerned to discover that foetal remains from another hospital had been incinerated on its site.

A spokeswoman said: “The Ipswich Hospital NHS Trust does not incinerate foetal remains.”

She added that the trust “takes great care over foetal remains”

A spokesman for the Cambridge University Hospitals NHS Foundation Trust said that trained health professionals discuss the options with parents ‘both verbally and in writing.’

"The parents are given exactly the same choice on the disposal of foetal remains as for a stillborn child and their personal wishes are respected,” they added.

Channel 4 Dispatches, Amanda Holden: Exposing Hospital Heartache, airs tonight (Monday March 24) at 8pm

*Vomits* Absolutely sickening.

I used to be for abortion when I hadn't properly examined the subject, but had to change my mind (and I really didn't want to) when it became clear to me that abortion is simply the termination of innocent human life. I'm sad to trigger Godwin's Law here, but quite honestly the mass termination of human life and it's machine-like disposal in this country and across the west brings images of the holocaust to me.

In the future, society will look back on abortion as we do today on 1930s eugenics.

Here are some of the best-rated comments anyway...


Dear God, what have we become?


On a journey to be born on the Planet Earth.
Torn out of the womb and incinerated.


Is there no limit to the evil that is the "progressive" mindset? I'm a grown man. It takes a lot to rattle me. But I'm sitting here right now at the office, door locked -- crying. This is so so SO wrong.... and the worst part is, the left have zero problem with it.


When you treat these babies/fetuses as any other part of the human body (removed appendixes, spleens, etc) why should we be upset when they're treated like any other medical waste? Either it is a life and should be treated as such - from conception on - or it isn't and we shouldn't be offended when it's treated like medical waste. The great paradox of abortion. Sometimes it's an abortion, sometimes it's a premature delivery. It just depends on what other people want to call it. Sad.

Thoughts?

GommeInc
24-03-2014, 06:42 PM
Well they are medical waste so it doesn't seem that surprising :P Don't hate the hospitals, hate the people who get pregnant and fail to adhere to basic contraceptive advice and open their legs to just about anyone. The only exceptions are rape victims, those mentally incapable of looking after children, those who would probably die in labour or those whose babies would die in birth.

e5
24-03-2014, 06:43 PM
Think that is pretty rank to be honest :/ walking round hospitals that are heated using aborted babies, wow :(

Sian
24-03-2014, 06:48 PM
I'm all for abortion, but honestly I find this abhorrent, at the end of the day they are a human life, and should therefore be respected as such, ie, a decent burial or at least this decision undertaken by the woman it came from.

Kardan
24-03-2014, 06:57 PM
Think that is pretty rank to be honest :/ walking round hospitals that are heated using aborted babies, wow :(

You make it sound as if hospitals run on energy solely from dead babies :P

I'm not sure what I feel on this subject. The mother should have a right to decide what happens to the remains. But a part of me wonders what is wrong with converting heat to energy, even if it is from cremation. Maybe putting in the remains with other 'clinical waste' isn't the best idea though...

- - - Updated - - -

I mean, the guy in the article says it's wrong - but he doesn't say why he thinks that.

sex
24-03-2014, 06:59 PM
nothing better than throwing an aborted fetus on the fire on a cold winters night

Evanora
24-03-2014, 07:04 PM
waste not want not

Aiden
24-03-2014, 07:05 PM
I don't even think I'm mentally stable to think about it too much. I don't even know if I care or not... (sorry).

:(

Cerys
24-03-2014, 07:07 PM
I spose it's putting them to use rather than just letting them rot or wasted idk...

But still pretty awful ew

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Aiden
24-03-2014, 07:08 PM
I spose it's putting them to use rather than just letting them rot or wasted idk...

But still pretty awful ew

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Putting them to use

PUTTING THEM TO USE

PuTTING THeM TO UsE


omg at least they're helping people now, right, cerys? :L

Yawn
24-03-2014, 07:09 PM
lmfao the man locked in his office crying wat a loser

The Don
24-03-2014, 07:14 PM
nothing better than throwing an aborted fetus on the fire on a cold winters night

toasting your marshmallows whilst singing songs

------

But in all seriousness what do you want hospitals to do with all those foetuses?

myles
24-03-2014, 07:15 PM
tbqh its better than burning wood we dont want global warming jheeze
would u rather the amazon forest be completely gone or a dead baby

Cerys
24-03-2014, 07:15 PM
Putting them to use

PUTTING THEM TO USE

PuTTING THeM TO UsE


omg at least they're helping people now, right, cerys? :L

exactly!!!! They should do this to other people too like people who wanna be cremated when they die cos it's a form of cremation yeah

I'd be up for heating some poor fools for a few mins xo


I'm just gonna shh now ;)

Yawn
24-03-2014, 07:16 PM
tbqh its better than burning wood we dont want global warming jheeze
would u rather the amazon forest be completely gone or a dead baby

dragga is with u on that 1

Aiden
24-03-2014, 07:16 PM
exactly!!!! They should do this to other people too like people who wanna be cremated when they die cos it's a form of cremation yeah

I'd be up for heating some poor fools for a few mins xo


I'm just gonna shh now ;)


So you want us to burn dead people for heat? I guess that would save space from graveyards. :L

Cerys
24-03-2014, 07:18 PM
So you want us to burn dead people for heat? I guess that would save space from graveyards. :L

Exactly
obviously they'd get the choice but come on guys save the trees and burn your friends instead !!

But being serious now graveyards are one day gonna get too full I assume and stuffs gonna run out so it's not that bad of an idea
Obviously is bad but not as bad as some
Idk

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Kardan
24-03-2014, 07:18 PM
Also is the title of this not misleading?

Surely the burning of the objects is creating electricity and then the electricity is being used in the hospital to heat it?

So it's not as if the warm air you're feeling has just been next to a burning aborted baby.

The Don
24-03-2014, 07:22 PM
Also is the title of this not misleading?

Surely the burning of the objects is creating electricity and then the electricity is being used in the hospital to heat it?

So it's not as if the warm air you're feeling has just been next to a burning aborted baby.

Shhhh let's not use common sense here

People that oppose abortion always amuse me because they generally seem to care about the potential life right up until the moment it's born and then it's on its own since those same people generally oppose welfare and child benefits.

Aiden
24-03-2014, 07:24 PM
Exactly
obviously they'd get the choice but come on guys save the trees and burn your friends instead !!

But being serious now graveyards are one day gonna get too full I assume and stuffs gonna run out so it's not that bad of an idea
Obviously is bad but not as bad as some
Idk

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Have you ever watched Torchwood?

http://i245.photobucket.com/albums/gg76/GadflyRage/torchwood/categories/categories10.jpg

they tried something like that but it didnt go down well

Cerys
24-03-2014, 07:25 PM
Have you ever watched Torchwood?

http://i245.photobucket.com/albums/gg76/GadflyRage/torchwood/categories/categories10.jpg

they tried something like that but it didnt go down well

Damn I thought my idea was original
;)

Nah never watched It haha

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-:Undertaker:-
24-03-2014, 07:45 PM
Shhhh let's not use common sense here

People that oppose abortion always amuse me because they generally seem to care about the potential life right up until the moment it's born and then it's on its own since those same people generally oppose welfare and child benefits.

Wow yes! Because the right to life is exactly the same as the supposed right to other people's money......... not.

Non sequitur.

The Don
24-03-2014, 07:54 PM
Wow yes! Because the right to life is exactly the same as the supposed right to other people's money......... not.

Non sequitur.

So who pays for the child to live that life if the parent doesn't want it/can't afford to raise it?

-:Undertaker:-
24-03-2014, 08:00 PM
So who pays for the child to live that life if the parent doesn't want it/can't afford to raise it?

Nobody or virtually nobody is against basic welfare, but you can be for basic welfare, or even better, charity (voluntary welfarism which is what we should aim for) without supporting a huge expensive state with child benefits. The idea that supporting the right to life (one of the few real rights we actually do have) is comparable to supporting or not supporting child benefit is laughable. You have a right to your life, you do not have a right to the fruits of other people's labour or hard work.

As a libertarian for example, one of the few remits I believe the state has is protecting innocent life. That's a legit area for state involvement.

The Don
24-03-2014, 08:09 PM
Your quote here sums up the hypocritical attitude (http://www.habboxforum.com/showthread.php?t=783051&highlight=abortion), caring before the child's born but as soon as your money is involved it's "WHY SHOULD WE PAY TO CARE FOR THOSE MORONS OFFSPRING?!".


Why should hard working taxpayers, many of whom have children themselves and who struggle to pay day-to-day bills, be forced to pay for the care of moronic and stupid teenage girls & their offspring who couldn't keep their legs shut?

What happens when you reward stupid and reckless behaviour? you get more of it.

We already have thousands of children in care waiting for adoption (http://www.baaf.org.uk/res/statengland), if abortion was removed that would increase drastically. It's nice to think that we live in an ideal world where charity would be able to care for all these hundreds of thousands of extra unwanted children but that's far from reality.

Phil
24-03-2014, 08:11 PM
Although I don't know what else could be done with the unwanted babies, I think the mothers should definitely be consulted before the hospitals turn to this procedure but most of you probably know I'm against abortion anyway. Nevertheless, this disgusts me.

FlyingJesus
24-03-2014, 08:21 PM
*+*THeY'Re NoT BaBiieS*+*

Good old anti-choice writers pretending that clusters of undeveloped and unsustainable cells are babies. If everything is its potential rather than its actuality then all of us are mass-murderers each time we exfoliate, and blowing ones nose is genocide of the highest order

myles
24-03-2014, 08:53 PM
To be honest i agree with cerys why waste space burying dead foetuses?

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Shar
24-03-2014, 09:07 PM
This is quite upsetting.

GommeInc
24-03-2014, 09:23 PM
But in all seriousness what do you want hospitals to do with all those foetuses?
Indeed, they can't ask the mother because obviously she wouldn't care what happens to the foetuses hence the abortion. The hospital can't just bury hundreds of foetuses. It's blaming the hospital for the poor decisions of the patients.

FlyingJesus
24-03-2014, 09:27 PM
They can and do ask :P


A spokesman for the Cambridge University Hospitals NHS Foundation Trust said that trained health professionals discuss the options with parents ‘both verbally and in writing.’

"The parents are given exactly the same choice on the disposal of foetal remains as for a stillborn child and their personal wishes are respected,” they added.

The outrage is from people who are neither involved nor educated on the matter

God
24-03-2014, 09:33 PM
*+*THeY'Re NoT BaBiieS*+*

Good old anti-choice writers pretending that clusters of undeveloped and unsustainable cells are babies. If everything is its potential rather than its actuality then all of us are mass-murderers each time we exfoliate, and blowing ones nose is genocide of the highest order

I agree with ya Tom.

Also why isn't anyone getting pissed off for woman having periods (OMG KILLING A POTENTIAL BABY) Also for the Billions of Men who kill off their sperm.

WHAT ABOUT THE SPERM PEOPLE. ITS SPERMICIDE.

Futz
24-03-2014, 10:02 PM
Why are you all shocked/sickened like this

The best thing to do to a lifeless corpse is to recycle or burn it???

**** did you want the govt to pay for 15,000 coffins, burials, funerals?

What else are they supposed to do with them, atleast this way we preserve some of the rarer fuels in the world

Shar
24-03-2014, 10:50 PM
Indeed, they can't ask the mother because obviously she wouldn't care what happens to the foetuses hence the abortion. The hospital can't just bury hundreds of foetuses. It's blaming the hospital for the poor decisions of the patients.


Indeed, they can't ask the mother because obviously she wouldn't care what happens to the foetuses hence the abortion. The hospital can't just bury hundreds of foetuses. It's blaming the hospital for the poor decisions of the patients.

What the hell. What if there's another reason the mother is having a abortion such as fetal abnormalities?

GommeInc
24-03-2014, 11:01 PM
What the hell. What if there's another reason the mother is having a abortion such as fetal abnormalities?
What bit are you focusing on? Should the hospital really be burying babies like this if not even the parents wanted them? Again, this is the duty of the mother/parents and already happens if they consent. Many crematoriums and cemeteries have special plots for babies who were aborted, still born or born and died shortly after if the parents so choose to have the body interred. If not, its get incinerated like with any other body parts. It's harsh, but hospitals, cemeteries and crematoriums can't take aborted bodies/foetuses and bury them.

As for mothers who have to abort children - read the first page. I pretty much said that - if the mother or baby will die in birth. I didn't mention quality of life but then again I'm not going to cite every reason and if the baby would have grown up disfigured or have a terrible quality of life it sort of goes without saying that an abortion may be the right option :)

Shar
24-03-2014, 11:16 PM
What bit are you focusing on? Should the hospital really be burying babies like this if not even the parents wanted them? Again, this is the duty of the mother/parents and already happens if they consent. Many crematoriums and cemeteries have special plots for babies who were aborted, still born or born and died shortly after if the parents so choose to have the body interred. If not, its get incinerated like with any other body parts. It's harsh, but hospitals, cemeteries and crematoriums can't take aborted bodies/foetuses and bury them.

As for mothers who have to abort children - read the first page. I pretty much said that - if the mother or baby will die in birth. I didn't mention quality of life but then again I'm not going to cite every reason and if the baby would have grown up disfigured or have a terrible quality of life it sort of goes without saying that an abortion may be the right option :)
Ok fair enough I obviously missed that.

In regards to the topic at hand, as horrendous and upsetting as I find the matter, I do agree with the fact that we can't expect the NHS to bury every single aborted fetus.
I think I find the fact that some people would rather have the fetuses incinerated than bury them or something really upsetting.

Chippiewill
24-03-2014, 11:23 PM
Why are we so surprised that a Hospital incinerates medical waste? It's basically cremation. I guess the idea that some of the systems generate heat is a little off-putting but let's be honest they're probably not netting additional heat from doing so, it just happens they don't fit multiple types of incinerators into hospitals. Probably because it's a waste of money.

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