By George! England's traditional counties can return to English roads

[-:Undertaker:-]

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/by-george-englands-traditional-counties-can-return-to-englands-roads

By George! England's traditional counties can return to English roads


https://assets.digital.cabinet-office.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/image_data/file/19364/s300_lancashire_flag_and_eric_pickles960x640.jpg
Eric Pickles (far on the right) holding the flag of Lancashire.


To mark St George’s Day, Eric Pickles today (23 April 2014) announced a new initiative to support the ‘tapestry’ of traditional English counties, including getting rid of a Whitehall ban on the names of traditional counties being displayed on street and road signs. The government is also publishing a new online interactive map of England’s county boundaries.

England’s traditional counties date back over a thousand years of English history, but many of the counties have been sidelined by Whitehall and municipal bureaucrats in recent decades, including the municipal restructuring by Edward Heath’s government in 1972. By contrast, this government is championing local communities continuing to cherish and celebrate such traditional ties and community spirit.

Mr Pickles announced today that planning rules have been changed to allow for councils to put up boundary signs marking traditional English counties – including the likes of Cumberland, Huntingdonshire, Westmorland and Middlesex.

In addition, the government is shortly to propose changes to highways regulations to allow traditional county names to appear on boundary road signs. The current rules prevent unitary councils like Blackpool from having a road sign saying ‘Lancashire’, or Poole saying ‘Dorset’ – since they confusingly are not considered to be part of an ‘administrative county’.

No council is being forced to make any change or put up unnecessary street clutter, but the intention is to free councils from Whitehall red tape, support local tourism and to cherish local ties and traditions. Local communities will be able to lobby their councils for the restoration of traditional boundary signs, including campaigns by public subscription.

This is part of a series of steps to champion England’s national identities; the government has previously changed Whitehall rules to allow local and county flags to be flown without planning permission, and supported the Flag Institute in encouraging a new wave of county and community flags to be designed and flown by local communities.

Eric Pickles, Secretary of State for Communities and Local Government, said:


"The tapestry of England’s counties binds our nation together, and is interwoven with our cultural fabric – from our cricket to our ales. Previous governments have tried to wipe the counties off the map, imposing bland administrative structures or alien euro-regions.

But I believe we are stronger as a nation when we cherish and champion our local and traditional ties. This government is proud to wave the flag of St George alongside both our county flags. Whatever one’s class, colour or creed, we should have pride in our English identities within the United Kingdom’s Union that binds us together."

Russell Grant, television personality and founder of the Association of British Counties, added:


"This is great news for counties like my own, Middlesex. We lost our county council in 1965, but our county continues to exist. Some London boroughs like Hounslow have actively supported Middlesex signs on their boundaries, and Brentford Chamber of Commerce are keen to proclaim the town as the historic county town of Middlesex. These common sense changes will give local councils and communities the confidence to promote historic local heritage and identity."


A small step in the right direction although I would like to see the pre-Edward Heath 1972 changes to local government in England reversed one day and the proper English boundaries restored to their rightful place as well as local government made local again. I will never accept, as somebody from Liverpool, that I live in an invented place called 'Merseyside', I live in Lancashire... And why? I place much more value of a thousand years of history over that traitor Heath and recent awful governments. The same applies to the EU regions they've tried imposing on us: 'North West', 'North East', 'South East' - hopefully when we've left the EU they'll also be consigned to the dustbin too.

It's time to reverse the damage that the native culture-haters have done over the last 50 years.

Thoughts?

[Chippiewill]

I dream of the day when we can abolish Norfolk of its evil modern name and restore it to it's Iceni glory days.

[-:Undertaker:-]

I dream of the day when we can abolish Norfolk of its evil modern name and restore it to it's Iceni glory days.

Yeah, that's real history as opposed to the loser of Edward Heath in the 1970s trying to centralise local government with invented counties. Thankfully though a lot of people agree with me hence why you'll often see letters to Liverpool still with 'Lancashire' underneath. It was a false change that the Heath government made, and thankfully people are refusing to adopt it fully.

Way to miss the point completely but there you have it.

[The Don]

Yeah, that's real history as opposed to the loser of Edward Heath in the 1970s trying to centralise local government with invented counties. Thankfully though a lot of people agree with me hence why you'll often see letters to Liverpool still with 'Lancashire' underneath. It was a false change that the Heath government made, and thankfully people are refusing to adopt it fully.

Way to miss the point completely but there you have it.

All countries are invented

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/3b/Paris_Tuileries_Garden_Facepalm_statue.jpg

[-:Undertaker:-]

All countries are invented

Most countries are not made up lines on a map. They are cultural, political and social frontiers. That's not invented.

Engage your brain next time before making such a thoughtless/silly comment, or you might just end up looking & sounding like John Lennon.

[The Don]

Most countries are not made up lines on a map. They are cultural, political and social frontiers. That's not invented.

Engage your brain next time before making such a thoughtless/silly comment, or you might just end up looking & sounding like John Lennon.

You're talking about culture now. All countries are invented, that is a fact. Not all countries have a long, historic past or strong culture, and I am not disputing that, but every single country has been invented by man. Is the United States not a country because it's only been around for less than 300 years?

[-:Undertaker:-]

You're talking about culture now. All countries are invented, that is a fact. Not all countries have a long, historic past or strong culture, and I am not disputing that, but every single country has been invented by man.

But a country is culture. A country is simply a political representation of a culture on the world stage.

You could argue that all things are essentially man-made (in that a country's borders are imaginary lines that can't be found geographically) but that doesn't remove the fact that it seperates different people and often isn't invented. Maybe i've just an issue with your use of invented as it simply reminds me of those fake countries that politicians created in the last century (see below).


Is the United States not a country because it's only been around for less than 300 years?

A country isn't always defined how long it's been around. Being around a long time though certainly helps.

Not all countries are countries though, some are false: Yugoslavia, Iraq, Syria, Pakistan, Somalia etc.......

[GommeInc]

Is this a northern thing? Can't say I've noticed it or that it's a problem down south.

[Chippiewill]

A country isn't always defined how long it's been around.

Neither are counties.

[Kardan]

Is this a northern thing? Can't say I've noticed it or that it's a problem down south.

It must be, we don't have these issues in the midlands either.

[Inseriousity.]

Is this a northern thing? Can't say I've noticed it or that it's a problem down south.

I think so, it's so confusing up here lol, in our local paper there was a time when the letters page was just people sending in letters debating what county we should be. We've got Cleveland, Teesside, North Yorkshire and that's just my area, not sure about others.

Not that I'd really call it a 'problem' imo. call it what you like, as long as the letters end up where they need to go I couldn't give a damn.

[-:Undertaker:-]

Neither are counties.

That's true - but that doesn't mean they should have been changed in the first place.

Unlike many on here, I actually have pride in where I come from and it's history... and it pisses me off when politicians meddle in it.


Is this a northern thing? Can't say I've noticed it or that it's a problem down south.

The two best examples I hear about and notice (although that could be because i'm from the north) are Lancashire/Liverpool and Cumberland.

[GommeInc]

It must be, we don't have these issues in the midlands either.
What they need is a nice long bath (barth) instead of one of those baff things ;)

Thinking about Liverpool... I've never associated it with a county and just think of it as just the city. It makes sense it being Lancashire since one of my friends is from neighbouring Lancaster. What's strange (just learnt this just now) is that Lancaster is the county town of Lancashire, yet there are bigger cities and even in the HQ is in Preston. Is that part of the problem? No central, economic/administrative towns or cities in the counties? Down south it's pretty straightfoward. Essex has Chelmsford, Suffolk has Ipswich, Norfolk has Norwich, Kent has Canterbury etc.

[karter]

Why do you say that Pakistan isn't a country? Only because of its partition from India because of religion?

and what about Bangladesh

[Kardan]

What they need is a nice long bath (barth) instead of one of those baff things ;)

Thinking about Liverpool... I've never associated it with a county and just think of it as just the city. It makes sense it being Lancashire since one of my friends is from neighbouring Lancaster. What's strange (just learnt this just now) is that Lancaster is the county town of Lancashire, yet there are bigger cities and even in the HQ is in Preston. Is that part of the problem? No central, economic/administrative towns or cities in the counties? Down south it's pretty straightfoward. Essex has Chelmsford, Suffolk has Ipswich, Norfolk has Norwich, Kent has Canterbury etc.

Maybe. It's even more simple in the midlands. The biggest city in Leicestershire is Leicester, likewise for Nottinghamshire and Derbyshire.

[-:Undertaker:-]

What they need is a nice long bath (barth) instead of one of those baff things ;)

Thinking about Liverpool... I've never associated it with a county and just think of it as just the city. It makes sense it being Lancashire since one of my friends is from neighbouring Lancaster. What's strange (just learnt this just now) is that Lancaster is the county town of Lancashire, yet there are bigger cities and even in the HQ is in Preston. Is that part of the problem? No central, economic/administrative towns or cities in the counties? Down south it's pretty straightfoward. Essex has Chelmsford, Suffolk has Ipswich, Norfolk has Norwich, Kent has Canterbury etc.

Yeah, it's pretty much a disaster. I am sure I read when I was looking up on this that parts of former Lancashire (historic Lancashire) were still included in the ceremonial designations, but then in terms of administration they were not. It's the same for Liverpool and the neighbouring Wirral across the war - before Heath and his ilk meddled around with it, it was simply Lancashire on the Liverpool side of the Mersey and Cheshire on the Wirral side.


Why do you say that Pakistan isn't a country? Only because of its partition from India because of religion?

and what about Bangladesh

Pakistan because of the tribalism that exists there, mainly regarding the seperation of the Pashtun people between the border of Afghanistan and Pakistan. Had the British got the area right when drawing the borders, then Pakistan should have been carved off the Raj (as it was, and I agree with that) but the area of Pakistan and Afghanistan should have been drawn up taking into consideration the tribes and language groups there.

Bangladesh I don't know much about, although generally speaking it appears pretty peaceful and wholesome.

[GommeInc]

Yeah, it's pretty much a disaster. I am sure I read when I was looking up on this that parts of former Lancashire (historic Lancashire) were still included in the ceremonial designations, but then in terms of administration they were not. It's the same for Liverpool and the neighbouring Wirral across the war - before Heath and his ilk meddled around with it, it was simply Lancashire on the Liverpool side of the Mersey and Cheshire on the Wirral side.
It just seems like mindless tampering. The only time counties really need to change is when settlements around the borders begin to expand and locals want to be administrated by a different county and the county letting go of the area is fine to let it happen provided voters don't mind. The actual Government getting involved seems a bit of a brash way of doing it.

Was Lancaster the "capital" of Lancashire before this? The name suggests it but from what I remember Liverpool was a powerful city before this. Usually the capitals of counties are the busiest. It seems Preston, Liverpool and Lancaster are perhaps too close to be properly independent.


Maybe. It's even more simple in the midlands. The biggest city in Leicestershire is Leicester, likewise for Nottinghamshire and Derbyshire.
And for East Anglia - Cambridge in Cambridgeshire :P

[-:Undertaker:-]

It just seems like mindless tampering. The only time counties really need to change is when settlements around the borders begin to expand and locals want to be administrated by a different county and the county letting go of the area is fine to let it happen provided voters don't mind. The actual Government getting involved seems a bit of a brash way of doing it.

Yeah, it was done to centralise local government. I can tell this affect it's had for example because the area in which I live (and it's not a huge area, it's urban but you know it's not a population centre) used to have a grand Victorian town hall (which was replaced by a horrid 1970s by-pass) that was just for this area. Nowadays my whole area is classed as one constituency in terms of city council whereas it used to be - I assume - administered by numerous wards in this one area who then went and sat in the town hall.

The Tories like to harp on about localism but it was they who gutted, sliced and ground-up localism. :P