Bobby Anwar, Ukip candidate, 'stabbed by Labour supporters'

[-:Undertaker:-]

http://order-order.com/2014/05/21/ukip-candidate-stabbed-by-labour-supporters/
http://www.itv.com/news/update/2014-05-21/blackburn-ukip-candidate-stabbed-in-the-face/

Ukip candidate 'stabbed by Labour supporters'


http://orderorder.files.wordpress.com/2014/05/stab.png?w=480&h=640


UKIP council candidate Bobby Anwar is claiming he has been stabbed by “avid Labour supporters” in Blackburn. He alleges:


“Stabbed in face by so called Muslim neighbors (sic) who are avid Labour supporters, whose teenage kids batter my 6-10yr olds, call my kids and wife kafirs (infidels)and n****rs (mum is African descent and converted).

All go to MMA cage fighting clubs which the teenagers were using on my son.

Without me using any profanity or threw any punches, the responsible adult/uncle ran back in the house to get a sharp metal weapon and came running from behind me and broke my cheekbone and broken eye socket. Extensive surgery this week needed including permanent metal plating.”

A police inquiry is ongoing but the victim is adamant that his UKIP connections were a motivating factor. If these reports are correct, those who have demonised UKIP share responsibility for this…

Whether the allegations are true or not we'll have to wait and see what the Police say, as well as what the aggrevating factor in the stabbing was. It wouldn't surprise me if the allegation is true considering how a similar but much more serious thing happened in Dutch politics about a decade ago when the mainstream parties started demonising Pim Fortuyn (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pim_Fortuyn) which led to his death.

The media are playing with fire.

Thoughts?

[FlyingJesus]

What that is ridiculous physically attacking someone other a political view, although realistically it sounds more religiously motivated by someone who's a thug that raised a family of thugs and should have been dealt with long ago as it appears to be an ongoing thing. I'd be careful with that claim about "those who demonise UKIP are to blame" - that's very close to calling for a halt on free speech and declaring honest reports to be inciting violence, and if that's how things work then lord knows what damage UKIP have done for anti-immigrant crime in the country

[Chippiewill]

That guys Facebook profile is hilariously cringey:
https://www.facebook.com/bobbyanwar

[GommeInc]

The article suggests this is more a racial issue than political issue. There's no evidence of it being about UKIP other than him saying he believes it to be, when previous to that he says he was called an infidel and of a different race.

The bit about party politics seems irrelevant. He doesn't provide anything that says it's purely because he's a UKIP candidate and that they are Labour supporters. By the looks of things they're more avid fighting sport fans, with aggressive personalities and race issues - saying they're avid Labour fans is just irrelevant twaddle.

[wordofwisdom]

shouldn't happen it's a voice people have one and theirs no need for voilence jsut because someone has a different view to yourself

[The Don]

Can we get a mod to change that sensationalist title? Bolt660; Sianness; The fact that the people who stabbed him are allegedly labour supporters is completely irrelevant to the story, and factually wrong. The title should be 'Bobby Anwar (Ukip Candidate) Stabbed'.

Completely agree with FlyingJesus; that it's ironic that you're blaming the media for this rather than thinking logically and putting it down to the thugs who did it. It's the same as the argument that video games make people violent, absolutely not true. Also you need to stop putting false titles up because something allegedly happening is not necessarily the truth. Like Tom said too, if you're blaming the media for this then god knows what the Ukip campaign has done to incite violence against immigrants.

[-:Undertaker:-]

Hey guys, i'm just using the sameeeeeeee logic you lot use when you say Ukip=waycists. Ho ho ho. Whats good for the good is good for the gander. Although, as I said very clearly in my piece, it hasn't yet been established what the motives for this attack have been so hold your horses.

And I do actually fear for Farage because it may set one of the nuts in the UAF/HopeNotHate off - as Pim Fortuyn found out.

[The Don]

Hey guys, i'm just using the sameeeeeeee logic you lot use when you say Ukip=waycists. Ho ho ho. Whats good for the good is good for the gander. Although, as I said very clearly in my piece, it hasn't yet been established what the motives for this attack have been so hold your horses.

And I do actually fear for Farage because it may set one of the nuts in the UAF/HopeNotHate off - as Pim Fortuyn found out.

How is blaming the media for an attack on a Ukip candidate over a non political issue comparable to calling a racist party racist?

[-:Undertaker:-]

How is blaming the media for an attack on a Ukip candidate over a non political issue comparable to calling a racist party racist?

Point proven, although as you know I don't reply to 'waycist waycist waycist' insults anymore. You've all lost the debate.

Boy am I looking forward to tomorrow and this weekend.

[The Don]

Point proven, although as you know I don't reply to 'waycist waycist waycist' insults anymore. You've all lost the debate.

Boy am I looking forward to tomorrow and this weekend.

Point proven as in you're wrong?

[FlyingJesus]

Being attacked by a civilian =/= top brass employed by a party (who haven't been removed) employing illegal immigrants and making death threats to gay people

And you don't "win" anything by running away from it constantly

[-:Undertaker:-]

Point proven as in you're wrong?

Point proven that all you lot have done during this entire campaign is shout racism over genuine concerns over mass immigration. Instead of making the case for the EU or for open borders, all you've done is sunk to the lowest campaign in British political history and it's failed.

The establishment media campaign, organised by the three cartel parties, has fallen flat on its face.


"First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win." - Mahatma Gandhi

[The Don]

Point proven that all you lot have done during this entire campaign is shout racism over genuine concerns over mass immigration.

The establishment media campaign, organised by the three cartel parties, has utterly failed.

How is that relevant to this? Dodging the question doesn't do anything to help yourself. Try to answer it this time. How is blaming the media for an attack on a Ukip candidate over a non political issue comparable to calling a racist party racist?

[-:Undertaker:-]

How is that relevant to this? Dodging the question doesn't do anything to help yourself. Try to answer it this time. How is blaming the media for an attack on a Ukip candidate over a non political issue comparable to calling a racist party racist?

I haven't blamed the media for the attack, indeed I stated that it was still unclear as to the motive hence why Police are investigating.

I simply warn, as I did a week or so ago, that the way the media has conducted this campaign has turned the debate toxic.

[The Don]

I haven't blamed the media for the attack, indeed I stated that it was still unclear as to the motive hence why Police are investigating.

I simply warn, as I did a week or so ago, that the way the media has conducted this campaign has turned the debate toxic.

Read the title of this thread.

- - - Updated - - -

And if anything turned this debate toxic it is the Ukip campaign tactics, not the media for calling something what it is.

[FlyingJesus]

In threads about immigration we talk about immigration. In threads about minimum wage we talk about minimum wage. In threads about business we talk about business. In threads about racism we talk about racism and you deflect, then lie about everyone else's intentions.

[-:Undertaker:-]

Read the title of this thread.

Guido wrote it and used 'these' 'to' 'show' 'it' 'was' 'an' 'allegation'.

Now i'm not debating it anymore, nor I will debate waycism or what a some obsure candidate has said or hasn't said. You've had your chance all these weeks to put forth the pro-EU case and pro-open borders case, you've decided to play dirty and it's backfired on you. HA.

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2014/may/20/labour-tory-poll-ratings-farage-attacks


Labour and Conservative polling is showing that attacks claiming Nigel Farage is a racist have backfired since voters do not regard him as such and see the assaults as a sign members of the political establishment are ganging up to undermine him.

The apparent backlash is coming to both parties from telephone polling and focus groups, which say that the attacks have raised Farage's profile and confirmed him as the anti-establishment candidate. It does not tally with published opinion polls that show the Ukip lead in the European elections narrowing slightly.

One source said: "Calling people names does not work. It confirms the old politics."

[The Don]

In threads about immigration we talk about immigration. In threads about minimum wage we talk about minimum wage. In threads about business we talk about business. In threads about racism we talk about racism and you deflect, then lie about everyone else's intentions.

It appears that everyone understands this except Dan. Judging by his last post the only threads allowed about political parties are those which discuss the EU, anything about the individual parties themselves appears to be off limits. Also hilarious that he's defending using a sensationalist title simply because 'guido did it'.

[FlyingJesus]

To be fair he prob can't concentrate properly on what threads are really about while he's busy using baby talk to prove how above the argument he is

[GommeInc]

UKIP technically isn't a racist party - it's just the media jumping to conclusions or individual readers thinking x member made a racial slur therefore the party is racist. It's just the person, not the party. Closer scrutiny of the party manifesto and you just get controlled immigration as a policy - no "they're useless" or "a cause for all things wrong in Britain". The only remark is about Romanians and that's not even in the policies section. The remark is about as useful as the Conservatives saying thousands of people are better off when in reality many thousands of others are living off of food banks or Labour saying they will fix the country despite having a track record of being bad with finances.

UKIP do have other policies but for some reason people lack the time to actually read them.

[The Don]

UKIP technically isn't a racist party - it's just the media jumping to conclusions or individual readers thinking x member made a racial slur therefore the party is racist. It's just the person, not the party. Closer scrutiny of the party manifesto and you just get controlled immigration as a policy - no "they're useless" or "a cause for all things wrong in Britain". The only remark is about Romanians and that's not even in the policies section. The remark is about as useful as the Conservatives saying thousands of people are better off when in reality many thousands of others are living off of food banks or Labour saying they will fix the country despite having a track record of being bad with finances.

UKIP do have other policies but for some reason people lack the time to actually read them.

I would argue that centring a campaign around immigrants and blaming them as the problem fits the definition of racist. "Prejudice, discrimination, or antagonism directed against someone of a different race based on the belief that one’s own race is superior"

http://i.huffpost.com/gen/1780995/thumbs/o-UKIP-POSTER-JOBS-570.jpg

Implying that jobs in Britain are the property of British people and that the immigrants are stealing them is doing nothing but brewing prejudice thoughts and alienating minorities. The part about the manifesto is not true either because going by that logic if a party campaigns with racist propaganda but leaves out any overt racist content from their manifesto they're not a racist party by your definition.

If you want to debate this feel free to respond to any of my posts in this thread here: http://www.habboxforum.com/showthread.php?t=802708 which is specifically about that.

[-:Undertaker:-]

Ryan, see - you're wasting your time with them. How can you reason with people who believe that 'immigrant' is a racial group? How can you reason with people who by their own logic think you are a racist if you believe that British people should come before other nationalities when it comes to jobs? How can you reason with people who think you're a racist for taking on tough issues such as wage depression or a housing shortage which are caused by open borders?

You can't, they won't be reasoned with until they are one day mugged by reality themselves.

[The Don]

Ryan, see - you're wasting your time with them. How can you reason with people who believe that 'immigrant' is a racial group? How can you reason with people who by their own logic think you are a racist if you believe that British people should come before other nationalities when it comes to jobs? How can you reason with people who think you're a racist for taking on tough issues such as wage depression or a housing shortage which are caused by open borders?

You can't, they won't be reasoned with until they are one day mugged by reality themselves.

I thought you would understand that I was using immigrants to refer to the specific races that have been targeted i.e Romanians and Bulgarians, clearly I gave you too much credit. It's rather easy to blame foreigners for all our problems, even though they are hardly at fault. Putting the housing crisis down to EU immigration is also laughable.

[-:Undertaker:-]

I thought you would understand that I was using immigrants to refer to the specific races that have been targeted i.e Romanians and Bulgarians, clearly I gave you too much credit. It's rather easy to blame foreigners for all our problems, even though they are hardly at fault. Putting the housing crisis down to EU immigration is also laughable.

Romanian and Bulgarian is a nationality, not a race.

And 200,000+ extra people coming into the country every year doesn't affect the housing supply? Hilarious.

[FlyingJesus]

I don't believe it's a racist party, I believe it's a nationalist party run by racists

[The Don]

Romanian and Bulgarian is a nationality, not a race.

And 200,000+ extra people coming into the country every year doesn't affect the housing supply? Hilarious.

Do you think a British Person can be racist to somebody from Scotland? Or an American to the Irish?

And immigrants aren't the root cause of the housing crisis in my opinion, no.

[-:Undertaker:-]

Do you think a British Person can be racist to somebody from Scotland? Or an American to the Irish?

If a black Englishman calls a white Scottish man a 'cracker' then that's racist. If a white American man calls a han-chinese British man a 'yellow something' then that'd be racist. My view of racism is the conventional one: treating people different based on skin colour or insulting somebody in a race-based manner. You seem to be confusing nationalities with race, again.


And immigrants aren't the root cause of the housing crisis in my opinion, no.

Who said anything about the root cause? I simply said that 200,000+ extra people coming in a year will have an affect on housing.

[FlyingJesus]

Nationalities can denote race, (as with the Irish who as a whole have historically been a persecuted group) while skin colour doesn't make people all of a type (such as the Sami of Scandinavia being largely white in appearance yet a completely different race to Greek/Gaulish/Teutonic white Europeans). You're confusing skin colour with race, which oddly enough is itself racist :P

[GommeInc]

I would argue that centring a campaign around immigrants and blaming them as the problem fits the definition of racist. "Prejudice, discrimination, or antagonism directed against someone of a different race based on the belief that one’s own race is superior"

http://i.huffpost.com/gen/1780995/thumbs/o-UKIP-POSTER-JOBS-570.jpg

Implying that jobs in Britain are the property of British people and that the immigrants are stealing them is doing nothing but brewing prejudice thoughts and alienating minorities. The part about the manifesto is not true either because going by that logic if a party campaigns with racist propaganda but leaves out any overt racist content from their manifesto they're not a racist party by your definition.

If you want to debate this feel free to respond to any of my posts in this thread here: http://www.habboxforum.com/showthread.php?t=802708 which is specifically about that.
Where is the racism? The advertising campaign shows no British superiority nor does it show EU citizen inferiority - obscuring reality to suit your purpose does not a fitting argument make. Saying 26 million Europeans are after your job lacks any degree of quality that remotely resembles racism in any shape or form. It's a mere advertising commentary "puff" which lacks a quality. If anything it I could argue it is flattering - we give them jobs and allow them to have jobs - is that racist? No.

It's as if suddenly the word xenophobia or straight out ignorance (which is often the case with UKIP campaigns) have been forgotten in Britain. We just use the word racism as a blanket term. The party lacks racist policies.

The full local manifesto states:

UKIP stands for much more than opposition to the European Union.
Government at local, national and European level has become too
remote. The political class have forgotten they work for us.
Bureaucrats and professional politicians have taken over and the
people are too often ignored.
UKIP will bring back power to the people. Decisions will be made
locally, common sense policies will make people’s lives easier and
government will do what is needed, but no more.
UKIP believes that :
• Council tax should be as low as possible
• Immigration must be controlled to relieve pressure on our health,
education, housing and welfare services
• Green spaces should be protected - we oppose excessive
housing development, wind farms and HS2
• We need more police on the streets, cracking down on crime and
anti-social behaviour
• Councils should cut highly paid council executives, not front-line
staff and services
• Real decision-making should be given to local communities
• Money should be used for local services, not the EU, foreign aid
and foreign wars

Where is the clearly racist policies? This is a problem that always arises in these discussions - people mention UKIP is a racist party yet when asked where they make it clear they're racist there is simply no answer. Personally I do not support them but I like to think that if I use a word to describe someone it is at the very least accurate to make for any plausible argument.

Officially, UKIP is clearly not a racist party. The media, however and the other parties, label them racist as some sort of smear campaign when any real research and mild digging reveals that actually their policies are nothing more than simple and straightforward for local elections. In fact, they're more sensible than the Conservative (http://www.conservatives.com/Campaigns.aspx)-link manifesto which seems to be:

"Labour and the Lib Dems won't give you say" (false - Labour said if more powers go to Brussels they will and the Lib Dems echoed similar sentiments.
"UKIP can't give you a say" - great policy there...
"Only the Conservatives can and will give you a referendum on Europe" - unlikely seeing as the last promise did not ring true.

[The Don]

Where is the racism? The advertising campaign shows no British superiority nor does it show EU citizen inferiority - obscuring reality to suit your purpose does not a fitting argument make. Saying 26 million Europeans are after your job lacks any degree of quality that remotely resembles racism in any shape or form. It's a mere advertising commentary "puff" which lacks a quality. If anything it I could argue it is flattering - we give them jobs and allow them to have jobs - is that racist? No.

It's as if suddenly the word xenophobia or straight out ignorance (which is often the case with UKIP campaigns) have been forgotten in Britain. We just use the word racism as a blanket term. The party lacks racist policies.

The full local manifesto states:


Where is the clearly racist policies? This is a problem that always arises in these discussions - people mention UKIP is a racist party yet when asked where they make it clear they're racist there is simply no answer. Personally I do not support them but I like to think that if I use a word to describe someone it is at the very least accurate to make for any plausible argument.

Officially, UKIP is clearly not a racist party. The media, however and the other parties, label them racist as some sort of smear campaign when any real research and mild digging reveals that actually their policies are nothing more than simple and straightforward for local elections. In fact, they're more sensible than the Conservative (http://www.conservatives.com/Campaigns.aspx)-link manifesto which seems to be:

"Labour and the Lib Dems won't give you say" (false - Labour said if more powers go to Brussels they will and the Lib Dems echoed similar sentiments.
"UKIP can't give you a say" - great policy there...
"Only the Conservatives can and will give you a referendum on Europe" - unlikely seeing as the last promise did not ring true.

I've clearly said in the thread I linked why I think what I do. Feel free to respond to any of my posts in there because i've had this exact discussion with Dan in the past and he seemingly couldn't give me an answer and instead kept changing the subject. http://www.habboxforum.com/showthread.php?t=802708&p=8185712#post8185712

Also as if Xenophobia (which I recall dan saying was 'made up' and not real) and Racism don't overlap.

[GommeInc]

Also as if Xenophobia (which I recall dan saying was 'made up' and not real) and Racism don't overlap.
They're incredibly distinct. One is an irrational fear (that if often ignorant - Farage saying he is afraid of two male Romanians moving next door being an example) and one is a specific "crime" that belittles another nation on the belief the nation the offender is part of or arguing in favour of is superior to that of the criticised nation. UKIP are mostly just xenophobic. The posters UKIP deployed aren't really xenophobic as there is no fear of other countries - it's just a misguided belief or ignorance. As they only want controlled immigration, not a complete cease to immigration, it's kind of obvious they're not racist. In fact, they mentioned not long ago they want to give all immigrants equal footing, as favouring EU nationals over commonwealth nationals (and others) shows a prejudice and makes the EU institutionally racist.

Interestingly, the comment Farage made wasn't even xenophobic! Seeing as he distinguished between female and male Romanians he arguably became sexist :P

[The Don]

To be fair though xenophobic is a better way to describe the party rather than racist, I do stand by calling that particular campaign as racist though.

[FlyingJesus]

"They're coming to steal your jobs" isn't racist OR xenophobic it's just ignorant and wrong :P

[The Don]

They're incredibly distinct. One is an irrational fear (that if often ignorant - Farage saying he is afraid of two male Romanians moving next door being an example) and one is a specific "crime" that belittles another nation on the belief the nation the offender is part of or arguing in favour of is superior to that of the criticised nation. UKIP are mostly just xenophobic. The posters UKIP deployed aren't really xenophobic as there is no fear of other countries - it's just a misguided belief or ignorance. As they only want controlled immigration, not a complete cease to immigration, it's kind of obvious they're not racist. In fact, they mentioned not long ago they want to give all immigrants equal footing, as favouring EU nationals over commonwealth nationals (and others) shows a prejudice and makes the EU institutionally racist.

Interestingly, the comment Farage made wasn't even xenophobic! Seeing as he distinguished between female and male Romanians he arguably became sexist :P

I don't see how saying you don't want to live next door to Romanians is anything but racist considering he'd happily live next door to Germans. When questioned on it he said "you know the difference" as if somehow Romanians are inferior or something.

[GommeInc]

"They're coming to steal your jobs" isn't racist OR xenophobic it's just ignorant and wrong :P
Precisely :P It's when people say all black, African Americans are great at basketball. It's just ignorance, as saying they're great defeats the point of there being an inferiority trigger. Intention is also important too.

It reminds me of that image that went around of an Asian girl holding up a poster saying "I'm not great at maths" :P


I don't see how saying you don't want to live next door to Romanians is anything but racist considering he'd happily live next door to germans. When questioned on it he said "you know the difference" as if somehow Romanians are inferior or something.
He specifically said male Romanians which makes him sexist. Also he says he would be concerned or "fear" them moving next door. Seeing as xenophobia is about fear it's textbook that it was a xenophobic remark. If he was racist he would say "I'd be concerned if (male) Romanians moved in next door as they're lazy, worthless and simply not as great as us Brits". His comments, from what I remember, were referring to crime statistics of the number of male Romanians allegedly committing crime. He (ignorantly) believes he would be the subject of crime by the neighbours - he fears being subjected to crime.

Racism needs some sort of superiority (or inferiority) and his remarks lacked it. Racism isn't about fear but belittling tactics, and he simply didn't show that.

[The Don]

"They're coming to steal your jobs" isn't racist OR xenophobic it's just ignorant and wrong :P

But wouldn't you say that those posters incite hatred towards those specific minorities?

[FlyingJesus]

Yes and ignorance is always problematic, especially when it's being taught. That doesn't make it racism

[The Don]

Yes and ignorance is always problematic, especially when it's being taught. That doesn't make it racism

I guess you're right. I suppose what I should have said was that it panders to racists. Although there is a fine line.

It doesn't help though that the billboard could be mistaken for one of the BNP's :P

http://www.europeantruth.co.uk/images/dudley%20poster.jpg