Bring Casino's Back Petition

[Benz]

Hi Guys,

I'm writing this post today as I don't think enough was done or for long enough by habbo users to attempt to undo the dice limitation ban put into place and for me it has regrettably ruined what was a great habbo experience for many long years.

So I have set up a facebook page located at: https://www.facebook.com/pages/Bring-Back-Habbo-Casinos/309840855851538 (https://www.facebook.com/pages/Bring-Back-Habbo-Casinos/309840855851538)

Which I hope I can get enough likes on to build up an audience and eventually through whatever legal means necessary force habbo's hands into allowing dice-related games to continue.

If we manage to achieve this aim I plan to keep the page functional as a sort of user "trade union" so to speak.

I would appreciate if you could help by sharing and liking the page.

Hopefully we can get enough support to make a change!

Regards,
Ben.

[Chippiewill]

It's not going to happen:

a) Sulake hold all the cards
b) It's a legal issue

[Futz]

lmfao what did they do to dice?

i thought they just made casinos change their name to arcades

[Lewis]

lmfao what did they do to dice?

i thought they just made casinos change their name to arcades

Sulake never made casinos change their names to arcades.

There were new mods who thought casinos were against the habbo way and started banning people with them. Due to this, people got scared and started changing casino names to arcades, but there was no reason to--it was a mistake and people who were banned were eventually unbanned.

Very recently they've put a two functioning dice limit and banned casinos due to, very likely, the new habbo app for phones. If they were still there, they'd have to make the apps 18+.

[iBlueBox]

Sorry I don't casinos back so no.

[lemons]

no thanks

[Futz]

lmfao that's terrible

must of pissed so many people off

when I was in sixth form I made some nice side cash through dealing, and there were a few people who made a lot more through it too

why are habbo destroying their own game lmaooooo

[Benz]

It's not going to happen:

a) Sulake hold all the cards
b) It's a legal issue

Firstly the primary and as far as I'm concerned ONLY reason habbo closed casino's (also been told by staff) was because of credit card fraud, an issue which had been going on for a long time and was dealt with for a long time. I'm not a legal expert but I imagine little legal responsibility could be attributed to them with all the right disclaimers in place and therefore I assume it was the attributing dedication of resources in proportion to what casinos brought back to the game (e.g. profits for sulake).

There is very little legal precedence to suggest that casinos or any dice-related game on habbo for that matter can be called legally as "gambling". I point you in the direction of Puzzle Pirates which has an even younger demographic, is on the app store and features many casino based games such as poker etc.

The whole "The ban was because of the migration to the app store and apple devices" I assure you is just urban myth.

Your point a) is more accurate which is why I wanted to create this page as it is external and habbo wouldn't be able to do anything about it.

I believe that if I got a big enough audience then through means of negative publicity, we could convince habbo it was in their best interest to reverse the dice-ban.

By negative publicity I mean things like:

- Further exposing of the channel 4 investigation
- Writing to current and potential shareholders
- Exposing potentially illegal ad-placements and suspending an important source of revenue
- Convincing users not to buy credits over a duration

etc.

[Chippiewill]

There is very little legal precedence to suggest that casinos or any dice-related game on habbo for that matter can be called legally as "gambling". I point you in the direction of Puzzle Pirates which has an even younger demographic, is on the app store and features many casino based games such as poker etc.

There's very little reason for them taking unnecessary risk.

[Benz]

There's very little reason for them taking unnecessary risk.

Normally yes, but legally the risk as far as I understand it is so small I don't even think it would have factored into the decision making process.

Like I said the main reason is attributed to credit card fraud.

[Daltron]

Minors gambling is illegal. Now Sulake have extended their reach into mobile gaming they can't get away with it anymore because Apple will never turn a blind eye to it.

All these petitions are getting old. Just move on, once again minors gambling is illegal. I'm not sure what people like OP don't understand about that.


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[Benz]

Minors gambling is illegal. Now Sulake have extended their reach into mobile gaming they can't get away with it anymore because Apple will never turn a blind eye to it.

All these petitions are getting old. Just move on, once again minors gambling is illegal. I'm not sure what people like OP don't understand about that.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Yes minor gambling is illegal.

Are Casino's on habbo considered as gambling, NO.

Gambling as far as its definition is concerned legally or otherwise as I've repeatedly expressed is for items of monetary value. Habbo coins or furniture do not directly constitute this and therefore it is 100% LEGAL.

With regards to Apple iStore T&C's the same applies and thus (as I've said previously) examples can be seen in similar young demographic games where often even more prominent 'casino' based games exist which have been promoted and developed by the game creators themselves. Puzzle Pirates a named example currently in the iStore.

Any suggestion that Habbo removed dice-based games and I again repeat that these are dice-based games encompassing not only the activities of casino's but other games that do not involve apparent 'gambling' game-play as a result of a threat of legal prosecution or entry to the app store is just ludicrous.

So please read my posts before spurting out non-sense. In the full sense of irony I'm not sure what people like you don't understand about that.

P.S. I bet you supported Kass on Survivor too.

[RealClifford]

I'm not even mad Casino's are gone...
Good riddance. They were just prone to scammers and cheap tricksters. They never ended well.

Sure, it got rid of a lot of the player base, but most of the casino's people were such big headed k**** anyway I don't even miss them.
Like I said, good riddance.

[Kyle]

Yes minor gambling is illegal.

Are Casino's on habbo considered as gambling, NO.

Gambling as far as its definition is concerned legally or otherwise as I've repeatedly expressed is for items of monetary value. Habbo coins or furniture do not directly constitute this and therefore it is 100% LEGAL.
not true...

please explain exactly how this puzzle pirates is gambling

[Suicune]

The ship has sailed. It's time for you and others to accept the fact casinos/gambling aren't coming back and move on.

[RealClifford]

not true...

please explain exactly how this puzzle pirates is gambling
Puzzle Pirates (At least when i touched it last a year or so ago) allowed players to play Poker, Spades, hearts etc with their in game currency. Just as habbo was allowing with Casinos/Arcades.
I guess that is his point?

[Benz]

not true...

please explain exactly how this puzzle pirates is gambling

It is very true for the reasons I explained in the post.

and yes as @RedClifford puts it.

[Matt]

Tbh I just want the dice limit lifted lol.

[Daltron]

Are Casino's on habbo considered as gambling, [U][B]NO.

P.S. I bet you supported Kass on Survivor too.

Are you delusional? Of course casinos on habbo are a form of gambling. You bet an item with a random risk of winning or losing.

And yes. Kass was the queen of Cagayan and we were robbed of an amazing jury speech and a deserving winner.


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[Zak]

I'm going to agree with the majority in this thread and say that it is a form of gambling. Minors are not allowed to gamble and I doubt they would have been able to release their iOS application without removing casinos.

A petition will do nothing to bring casinos back. Sulake are horrific at actually listening to their community anyway. Even a simple thing like investigating a ban is usually a long drawn-out process with no outcome.

[lRhyss]

It wouldn't be a problem if users didn't ave to purchase credits for real money, if you earned the credits from things like; online time, winning mini-games etc... It would be fine to allow them to return.

[Zak]

It wouldn't be a problem if users didn't ave to purchase credits for real money, if you earned the credits from things like; online time, winning mini-games etc... It would be fine to allow them to return.

Which we all know isn't going to happen :P

[James]

Yes minor gambling is illegal.

Are Casino's on habbo considered as gambling, NO.

Gambling as far as its definition is concerned legally or otherwise as I've repeatedly expressed is for items of monetary value. Habbo coins or furniture do not directly constitute this and therefore it is 100% LEGAL.

With regards to Apple iStore T&C's the same applies and thus (as I've said previously) examples can be seen in similar young demographic games where often even more prominent 'casino' based games exist which have been promoted and developed by the game creators themselves. Puzzle Pirates a named example currently in the iStore.

Any suggestion that Habbo removed dice-based games and I again repeat that these are dice-based games encompassing not only the activities of casino's but other games that do not involve apparent 'gambling' game-play as a result of a threat of legal prosecution or entry to the app store is just ludicrous.

So please read my posts before spurting out non-sense. In the full sense of irony I'm not sure what people like you don't understand about that.

P.S. I bet you supported Kass on Survivor too.
Underage people buy coins
they use these coins to gamble in casinos with the possibility to lose them & the money they spent, therefore it is gambling.

Oxford dictionary definition of gambling in case you're unaware:



Definition of gamble in English:

gamble

VERB
Play games of chance for money;

Casinos won't be unbanned. please move on.

[IWishIWasCool]

Why the hell should we allow kids to gamble money on an onilne game so that you 46 year old morons can take precious credits from them?

[Premplus480]

Its gambling, Yes, BUT! i dont see why its a problem for 13/14 year old to do it on habbo? Ok its not the best practice for later life but its not as if anyone forces you to bet your coins, after all they are supposed to have no monetary value so its no Illegal per-say. Its a shame they went and they wont ever return! It heads off into the Habbo in the sky with the Lido, Infobus and now The casino! Well done sulake! Yet another BLUNDER!

[Zak]

Its gambling, Yes, BUT! i dont see why its a problem for 13/14 year old to do it on habbo? Ok its not the best practice for later life but its not as if anyone forces you to bet your coins, after all they are supposed to have no monetary value so its no Illegal per-say. Its a shame they went and they wont ever return! It heads off into the Habbo in the sky with the Lido, Infobus and now The casino! Well done sulake! Yet another BLUNDER!

You buy credits with money in real-life then gamble the credits in casino rooms? It is illegal.

That's like an underage better going into a casino and exchanging real-life money for casino chips and then gambling with those chips at the various games in the casino.

What is the difference between that and what happened on Habbo?

[Kyle]

Puzzle Pirates (At least when i touched it last a year or so ago) allowed players to play Poker, Spades, hearts etc with their in game currency. Just as habbo was allowing with Casinos/Arcades.
I guess that is his point?
is in game currency in puzzle pirates bought or earned

[RealClifford]

is in game currency in puzzle pirates bought or earned
Both. You have the option to buy and earn.

[IWishIWasCool]

Go play Zynga Poker and shut the hell up.

[Woutou]

I use to go to casinos and I'm happy they're gone less scamming and hacking to deal with the only problem I don't like about is
the dice limit..

[steamyxo]

pple need to let this go lol

[Empired]

Firstly the primary and as far as I'm concerned ONLY reason habbo closed casino's (also been told by staff) was because of credit card fraud, an issue which had been going on for a long time and was dealt with for a long time. I'm not a legal expert but I imagine little legal responsibility could be attributed to them with all the right disclaimers in place and therefore I assume it was the attributing dedication of resources in proportion to what casinos brought back to the game (e.g. profits for sulake).

There is very little legal precedence to suggest that casinos or any dice-related game on habbo for that matter can be called legally as "gambling". I point you in the direction of Puzzle Pirates which has an even younger demographic, is on the app store and features many casino based games such as poker etc.

The whole "The ban was because of the migration to the app store and apple devices" I assure you is just urban myth.

Your point a) is more accurate which is why I wanted to create this page as it is external and habbo wouldn't be able to do anything about it.

I believe that if I got a big enough audience then through means of negative publicity, we could convince habbo it was in their best interest to reverse the dice-ban.

By negative publicity I mean things like:

- Further exposing of the channel 4 investigation
- Writing to current and potential shareholders
- Exposing potentially illegal ad-placements and suspending an important source of revenue
- Convincing users not to buy credits over a duration

etc.
Hey, it's great to see you're so passionate about Habbo and its economy. Seriously, Habbo needs more people who are willing to stand up and say what they think. However, I think you may have been slightly misinformed about a couple of things.

First of all, credit card fraud really doesn't have much to do with why gambling and casinos were banned. Credit card fraud will continue to happen as long as credits are still available to buy. Removing gambling may have slightly decreased the number of cases, but Sulake wasn't really interested in this.
They decided to ban gambling because Apple would never let them have an app for Habbo if they were encouraging people as young as thirteen to "gamble". As other people have said, casinos on Habbo ARE gambling as you buy credits which you then use to gamble (much like buying chips to gamble with in a real life casino).
I don't know much about Puzzle Pirates, but I assume there was a reason for Apple to let gambling be a part of the game. Is it multiplayer or single player? If you're gambling against a machine and not another person, the rules may be different.

Habbo obviously had to put quite a bit of thought into whether or not to ban gambling. It would lose them a lot of users AND a lot of money (as gamblers would no longer need credits to fund their gambling). So they clearly think that getting Habbo an app will make them more money than the gamblers were.

I'd also just like to point out that it's possible your negative publicity ideas may not have the effect you want. Exposing the Channel 4 investigation may just lead to Habbo having another month(ish) long mute. Or worse, they may end up having to shut Habbo down entirely!
Convincing users not to buy credits for a while is also a bit of a dodgy one. I doubt you'd be able to convince the majority of users not to buy credits (either because they don't hear about it or because they don't support your idea) so Habbo wouldn't really be losing out. Plus, "over a duration" means that eventually people would go back to buying credits and everything would go back to exactly how it was.

I like the idea of writing to shareholders, though. I'd be interested to see how that one turns out if you were to go ahead with it :)

So yeah, I'm not going to support the petition. Partly because I never went to casinos so that doesn't affect me, and partly because I don't think it's okay for underage people to gamble under ANY circumstances.

Anyway, like I said, it's brilliant to see you so interested in Habbo. Even if this doesn't work out, keep it up :P

[IWishIWasCool]

Again, Go play Zynga Poker you morons.

Stop trying to bring them back so you can scam kids again.

[Benz]

@Empired I appreciate your thoughts on the subject and I agree 100% about what you said about the fraud situation which is what infuriates me so much as from what I understand (habbo staff have told) it was the only reason why the dice-ban came into effect, but I suppose with so many stories out there it's almost impossible to confirm.

I also agree with a-lot of what you said about the methods I referenced and just to clarify if this idea even does get enough support I doubt we would attempt such aggressive strategies.

For the record Puzzle Pirates is a multiplayer game with similar in-game credit purchases and even more prominent casino games like in-built poker tables. Furthermore I am 90% sure that the apple store was not, at-least a significant reason for the dice-ban but again I suppose this is up for debate.

For everyone else insisting that the casino based activities that took place on habbo were and can be considered 'gambling' legally I challenge you to find me any legal precedence of a similar case, because I highly doubt you will find one. The legal definition explicitly states that it must be for items of value, habbo coins do not constitute this directly. I don't know how many times I have to repeat myself.

@Viba you told me this:

"Underage people buy coins
they use these coins to gamble in casinos with the possibility to lose them & the money they spent, therefore it is gambling.

Oxford dictionary definition of gambling in case you're unaware:


Definition of gamble in English:

gamble

VERB
Play games of chance for money;


Casinos won't be unbanned. please move on."

I don't mean to be rude but are you dumb? You quoted me a definition that just proves my point.. that gambling is to "play games of chance for money"

Habbo credits are considered virtual and not a commodity, currency or anything of value.

The same goes to @Zak who said:

"You buy credits with money in real-life then gamble the credits in casino rooms? It is illegal. "

Please just read my posts as that is not the definition of gambling. People clearly have some misconceived conception of this.

To everyone who is happy that casinos are gone, fair enough I know we weren't exactly the most likely bunch.

[Kyle]

buy in= not gambling
potential to cash out = gambling

as habbo->irl trading was rife in casinos it makes it gambling.

[Benz]

buy in= not gambling
potential to cash out = gambling

as habbo->irl trading was rife in casinos it makes it gambling.

Finally a sensible argument.

The problem with this is firstly that habbo covers itself legally in part through its disclaimers that prohibit the sale of credits by users.

Secondly, similarly and more importantly because it is an indirect trade habbo has no control over it therefore it is not legally their responsibility. In order to prosecute habbo for under-age gambling it would require a whole new legal precedent which would set the bar for pretty much any game of chance where there is a multiplayer trading aspect which would affect the entire industry and is also highly unlikely to ever be passed in the first place due to the lack of control game-developers have over it.

So again currently it is not considered gambling and is very unlikely to ever be considered that.

[James]

Are you done? Good.

Back to the original point of this thread, clearly 80% of the people who have posted disagree with casinos and know they won't be coming back, therefore the petition is a waste of time and effort. Nobody wants to help you get casinos back just so you can continue selling things you get from underage people on a black market.
Good luck though.

[Zak]

Going back to my original post Benz.

If a 14 year old child walked into a casino and managed to exchange their money for casino chips and then went on to play games in the casino using those chips, do you think that would be classed as gambling? Of course it would.

That is in no way different to exchanging your money for Habbo credits then betting in various games of chance. This is what I think anyway.

Besides loads of people sold their casino earnings on line. Isn't that right Soy; haha

[Daltron]

the petition has 2 likes ..

[Michael]

They won't come back, and I'm glad they won't - full of scammers, black market traders & a hangout for the dark side.

[Benz]

Going back to my original post Benz.

If a 14 year old child walked into a casino and managed to exchange their money for casino chips and then went on to play games in the casino using those chips, do you think that would be classed as gambling? Of course it would.

That is in no way different to exchanging your money for Habbo credits then betting in various games of chance. This is what I think anyway.

Besides loads of people sold their casino earnings on line. Isn't that right @Soy (http://www.habboxforum.com/member.php?u=31474); haha

With all due respect I don't care what you think 'gambling' is, I'm only concerned what the actual definition is. This is just getting ridiculous now I've explained to all of you very clearly and explicitly how its not 'gambling'. Now deal with the fact that no matter how much you "think" it was, legally and by the standards of the English language it was NOT gambling.

@Viba fair enough if you want to say that although I was aware I was going to come up against stiff competition from those who disliked casinos. Never the less I am willing to try if I can get support.

[Lewis]

With all due respect I don't care what you think 'gambling' is, I'm only concerned what the actual definition is. This is just getting ridiculous now I've explained to all of you very clearly and explicitly how its not 'gambling'. Now deal with the fact that no matter how much you "think" it was, legally and by the standards of the English language it was NOT gambling.

@Viba fair enough if you want to say that although I was aware I was going to come up against stiff competition from those who disliked casinos. Never the less I am willing to try if I can get support.

dude as much as I truly want gambling back and would do anything to get it back... get over it, it's underage gambling

[IWishIWasCool]

Are you done? Good.

Back to the original point of this thread, clearly 80% of the people who have posted disagree with casinos and know they won't be coming back, therefore the petition is a waste of time and effort. Nobody wants to help you get casinos back just so you can continue selling things you get from underage people on a black market.
Good luck though.

This is pretty much on the spot.

I find it ignorant that OP is trying to defend stealing money from kids online (credits cost money, so don't try and use that against me moron.)

[Premplus480]

You buy credits with money in real-life then gamble the credits in casino rooms? It is illegal.

That's like an underage better going into a casino and exchanging real-life money for casino chips and then gambling with those chips at the various games in the casino.

What is the difference between that and what happened on Habbo?

You dont have to buy them you can earn them, the choice is there..

[Hannah]

Wow, you're getting quite a little worked up over casinos being removed from a game aimed at teenagers.
Why don't you hop on over to a site specifically created for gambling, because casinos won't be returning despite your efforts.

[Benz]

I must being going absolutely mad.. I've explained over and over why it CANNOT be called under-age gambling but instead of coming up with a valid argument the majority of you just label it as such. You have every right to hate casinos on habbo that's your opinion but your opinions don't apply to things which are absolute which is what the definition of gambling is!

GET IT THROUGH YOUR HEADS!

[Empired]

I think he might have a point. I don't think Habbo has banned "gambling" as such. They simply say that betting on randomising furni is against the rules:


Consequences of Placing or Accepting Bets:
These are for players who place or accept bets on the outcome of randomizers or charge other players to play or stay in games that use randomizers. Consequences in this category range from temporary to permanent trade lock, based on the severity of the problem and how many times you have previously been sent alerts or had an account trade-locked.


They don't call it gambling. Not that this really proves anything other than the description of a word.

[Daltron]

Underage gambling is illegal



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[RealClifford]

Okay, so you want a different angled argument?
How about this?

So if it's not 'gambling' - Why do you call the rooms 'Casinos'? Are Casino's not a place of gambling?
Since you love definitions so bloody much here is one for you.

CASINO:
A public room or building where gambling games are played

So, now that is out of the way. Please go ahead and tell me how your 'casino's are not for 'gambling'.
As by definition a casino is a place of gambling, so either they aren't casino's or they are gambling. You can't have both here, they go hand in hand.

[Benz]

Okay, so you want a different angled argument?
How about this?

So if it's not 'gambling' - Why do you call the rooms 'Casinos'? Are Casino's not a place of gambling?
Since you love definitions so bloody much here is one for you.

CASINO:
A public room or building where gambling games are played

So, now that is out of the way. Please go ahead and tell me how your 'casino's are not for 'gambling'.
As by definition a casino is a place of gambling, so either they aren't casino's or they are gambling. You can't have both here, they go hand in hand.


Hahaha a very witty response, so I too shall reply in kind by saying my rooms were labeled as "Arcades".

ARCADE:
An indoor area containing coin-operated game machines

gg sir

[RealClifford]

Hahaha a very witty response, so I too shall reply in kind by saying my rooms were labeled as "Arcades".

ARCADE:
An indoor area containing coin-operated game machines

gg sir

So why are you fighting for 'Casino's' as per your thread title and throughout this entire thread?

[Benz]

So why are you fighting for 'Casino's' as per your thread title and throughout this entire thread?

Hmm you do have a point there.. I suppose its the most recognisable name to habbo users. We should really be pushing for "Arcades" to come back.

Duly noted.

[RealClifford]

I believe THAT is GG. :)

[Benz]

It's GG in the language I've used in my petition but it still does not take anything away from our underlying goals. :)

[Daltron]

And with this thread full of arguments that don't make sense and a FB page with 2 likes Sulake has finally caved into user Benz demands and Casinos and Gambling have returned! Congratulations sir what a great campaign you lead.

- - - Updated - - -

Breaking news Sulake sued for facilitating minors gambling

Breaking breaking news Sulake iPad app 'Habbo' flagged for minors gambling and rating bumped to 21+

Breaking breaking breaking news Channel 4 investigation underway

[RealClifford]

And with this thread full of arguments that don't make sense and a FB page with 2 likes Sulake has finally caved into user Benz demands and Casinos and Gambling have returned! Congratulations sir what a great campaign you lead.

- - - Updated - - -

Breaking news Sulake sued for facilitating minors gambling

Breaking breaking news Sulake iPad app 'Habbo' flagged for minors gambling and rating bumped to 21+

Breaking breaking breaking news Channel 4 investigation underway
#REKT

[IWishIWasCool]

Kid, you can call it what you want, but at the end of the day it's underage gambling, Please go download Zynga poker and play that instead, complaining about gambling being banned on a online game designed of kids is kind of pathetic.

[lRhyss]

And with this thread full of arguments that don't make sense and a FB page with 2 likes Sulake has finally caved into user Benz demands and Casinos and Gambling have returned! Congratulations sir what a great campaign you lead.

- - - Updated - - -

Breaking news Sulake sued for facilitating minors gambling

Breaking breaking news Sulake iPad app 'Habbo' flagged for minors gambling and rating bumped to 21+

Breaking breaking breaking news Channel 4 investigation underway
We all know it's not going to make a difference, but at least he's trying.

[Plebings]

it's a losing battle, habbo may have ignored it in the past but this is their site. no company in their right mind would put effort into bringing gambling aspects to their childrens chat room.

what would be to gain for them apart from a higher risk of bad publicity? illegal or not clearly they don't want this behaviour on their site, they might have put up with it before but perhaps the app gave them that extra push, i doubt post-removal they'll put much effort into bringing it back.

shocking i know, but it's good ethically and for publicity, there are other games that have removed gambling since it's beginning, recent pokemon games for instance.

[The Don]

buy in= not gambling
potential to cash out = gambling

as habbo->irl trading was rife in casinos it makes it gambling.

There was no official way to cash out so your point is irrelevant.

[Red]

There was no official way to cash out so your point is irrelevant.
Its very valid. There may have been no official way to cash out but it was happening illegally, casinos being a huge part of it.

[The Don]

Its very valid. There may have been no official way to cash out but it was happening illegally, casinos being a huge part of it.

Illegally being the key point. Sulake wasn't endorsing it and as long as they took measures to prevent it then surely they had nothing to worry about...

[Red]

Illegally being the key point. Sulake wasn't endorsing it and as long as they took measures to prevent it then surely they had nothing to worry about...
It was rife though and this is a measure to prevent it. :S

[The Don]

It was rife though and this is a measure to prevent it. :S

Of course, but they could have simply banned it in their rules and had moderators ban casino owners without introducing the dice limit. They would have been covering their backs without alienating a large part of their user base because if people were desperate to gamble they would have been able to do so, discretely, in private rooms. Although that would have obviously taken far more effort on Sulake's part so simply limiting the number of dice in a room was probably the more sensible option.

[Reality]

Sorry, but you'll lucky to even get a reply...!
Sulake made the decision based upon real life circumstances that affect people when gambling. The majority of users on Habbo are young teens therefore, aren't even of legal age to gamble in the first place; thus their decision. Good luck with this, if you carry it on.

[Benz]

Just to update you all, I have recently opened a racecourse that lets players ride horses around a racetrack with obstacles and I take bets on who will win.

I have recently appealed my trade-lock obtained for doing this activity stating that all the rules and written policies on this matter explicitly state the presence of a randomisation element is necessary to be breaking a rule and that this was based on "player skill" as they put it.

This morning I was restored to normal and hence set a precedence for betting once again in the hotel.

Sorry doubters we're back.

[James]

Just to update you all, I have recently opened a racecourse that lets players ride horses around a racetrack with obstacles and I take bets on who will win.
I wonder if any Habbo staff will take this as a confession & ban you to end your pointless whining over gambling.

[Benz]

I wonder if any Habbo staff will take this as a confession & ban you to end your pointless whining over gambling.

Wow I'm just about done with some of the idiots on here like you Viba.

I've proven that it's not Gambling over and over. If you want to use a word that doesn't make sense be my guest just proves you're idiotic.

Secondly If you'd care to read my post at all it said that HABBO STAFF REMOVED MY TRADE-BLOCK and confirmed what I was doing was legal. I openly admitted to them I was taking Bets because ONLY taking bets on randomised outcome is illegal.

Thirdly you can't get banned for taking bets only trade-locked as publicised by habbo's help section.

So there's three points which proves you are either seriously dumb or just in denial over the truth.

Please stop replying to my thread unless you're going to come up with some valid arguments.

[James]

Okay, here's another "Invalid argument" for you.

Daltron - http://www.habboxforum.com/showthread.php?t=805367&p=8215074#post8215074
http://www.habboxforum.com/showthread.php?t=805367&p=8215146#post8215146


Zak -
http://www.habboxforum.com/showthread.php?t=805367&p=8215149#post8215149
http://www.habboxforum.com/showthread.php?t=805367&p=8215211#post8215211
http://www.habboxforum.com/showthread.php?t=805367&p=8215936#post8215936


IWishIWasCool -
http://www.habboxforum.com/showthread.php?t=805367&p=8215182#post8215182
http://www.habboxforum.com/showthread.php?t=805367&p=8216977#post8216977


Empired -
http://www.habboxforum.com/showthread.php?t=805367&p=8215606#post8215606


Jellyfish -
http://www.habboxforum.com/showthread.php?t=805367&p=8215755#post8215755


Lewis -
http://www.habboxforum.com/showthread.php?t=805367&p=8216093#post8216093


RedClifford -
http://www.habboxforum.com/showthread.php?t=805367&p=8216830#post8216830


James -
http://www.habboxforum.com/showthread.php?t=805367&p=8218213#post8218213

Every single one of the people above have commented here saying it IS illegal, or underage gambling, or something along those lines. And I only count one or two people saying it's not, so if this were a court case, I believe you'd have lost. Also, if I may point out:

Habbo way:


Place or accept bets

Using furni that randomizes games with the possibility to place bets can get you into trouble. Show off your skills, don't leave it up to chance.

You:

Just to update you all, I have recently opened a racecourse that lets players ride horses around a racetrack with obstacles and I take bets on who will win.

So with that, please explain to me how what you are doing is "legal" and not gambling?? Your trade pass may have been given back to you, but I can guarantee it will probably be removed again straight away. You might think you are doing the right thing, but you're not. And I think I speak for everyone in the spoiler above when I say:

Betting/Gambling is gone. Get over it!

[Benz]

Okay, here's another "Invalid argument" for you.

Daltron - http://www.habboxforum.com/showthread.php?t=805367&p=8215074#post8215074
http://www.habboxforum.com/showthread.php?t=805367&p=8215146#post8215146


Zak -
http://www.habboxforum.com/showthread.php?t=805367&p=8215149#post8215149
http://www.habboxforum.com/showthread.php?t=805367&p=8215211#post8215211
http://www.habboxforum.com/showthread.php?t=805367&p=8215936#post8215936


IWishIWasCool -
http://www.habboxforum.com/showthread.php?t=805367&p=8215182#post8215182
http://www.habboxforum.com/showthread.php?t=805367&p=8216977#post8216977


Empired -
http://www.habboxforum.com/showthread.php?t=805367&p=8215606#post8215606


Jellyfish -
http://www.habboxforum.com/showthread.php?t=805367&p=8215755#post8215755


Lewis -
http://www.habboxforum.com/showthread.php?t=805367&p=8216093#post8216093


RedClifford -
http://www.habboxforum.com/showthread.php?t=805367&p=8216830#post8216830


James -
http://www.habboxforum.com/showthread.php?t=805367&p=8218213#post8218213

Every single one of the people above have commented here saying it IS illegal, or underage gambling, or something along those lines. And I only count one or two people saying it's not, so if this were a court case, I believe you'd have lost. Also, if I may point out:

Habbo way:


You:


So with that, please explain to me how what you are doing is "legal" and not gambling?? Your trade pass may have been given back to you, but I can guarantee it will probably be removed again straight away. You might think you are doing the right thing, but you're not. And I think I speak for everyone in the spoiler above when I say:

Betting/Gambling is gone. Get over it!

Is there no end to your stupidity. You're just in a mad rage because you're WRONG.

LOOOL you think just because more people say something is right that means it is... you are a joke. I don't care how many people think themselves it is "Gambling" I've explained in about 5 posts previously how the definition is absolute YOU CANNOT CHANGE IT. I don't care how messed up your own opinion is, betting with virtual goods such as coins do not directly constitute as an object with financial worth THEREFORE IT IS NOT GAMBLING, THE END, YOU LOSE.

Thank you for saving me the time and quoting the rule myself as I would have done, you're really shooting yourself in the foot. You said the following:

"So with that, please explain to me how what you are doing is "legal" and not gambling??"

Ok I will with the quote you provided.

"Using furni that randomizes games with the possibility to place bets"

As I've already explained but clearly you have not read correctly, my game is 100% non randomized. e.g. for someone as idiotic as you, doesn't involve any random elements. It is therefore considered player skill and LEGAL.

LOOL do you not understand that because habbo have given the trade pass back they also agree with my arguement, well to be honest there's nothing to agree with. IT IS FACT. Only an idiot like you couldn't understand that.

I speak for myself that if everyone in that spoiler shares the same view you do then they too are either honestly mistaken or just fools.

OH AND BETTING IS BACK BECAUSE I FOUND A WAY TO BRING IT BACK, DEAL WITH IT.

[James]

Is there no end to your stupidity. You're just in a mad rage because you're WRONG.

LOOOL you think just because more people say something is right that means it is... you are a joke. I don't care how many people think themselves it is "Gambling" I've explained in about 5 posts previously how the definition is absolute YOU CANNOT CHANGE IT. I don't care how messed up your own opinion is, betting with virtual goods such as coins do not directly constitute as an object with financial worth THEREFORE IT IS NOT GAMBLING, THE END, YOU LOSE.Habbo's definition of Gambling is placing or accepting bets on the outcome of a specific event. Betting on horse, betting on habbos, even betting on what colour the grass will be... it's all gambling. So you're still in the wrong. Sometimes you just have to accept that.


Thank you for saving me the time and quoting the rule myself as I would have done, you're really shooting yourself in the foot. You said the following:

"So with that, please explain to me how what you are doing is "legal" and not gambling??"


Yes I did, congratulations. You can read.


Ok I will with the quote you provided.

"Using furni that randomizes games with the possibility to place bets"

As I've already explained but clearly you have not read correctly, my game is 100% non randomized. e.g. for someone as idiotic as you, doesn't involve any random elements. It is therefore considered player skill and LEGAL.


You're twisting Habbo's words. You said yourself you have obstacles in the horse racing room you use. that's furniture is it not? & it has to be random otherwise there's no point betting on it as people will just bet the one that wins. So it may not be exact randomising items, like dice, etc, but the random aspect is still there with the way you place the obstacles.


LOOL do you not understand that because habbo have given the trade pass back they also agree with my arguement, well to be honest there's nothing to agree with. IT IS FACT. Only an idiot like you couldn't understand that.
You know what they say, when you run out of valid points, you turn to insults.


I speak for myself that if everyone in that spoiler shares the same view you do then they too are either honestly mistaken or just fools.
Or you're not quite understanding.


OH AND BETTING IS BACK BECAUSE I FOUND A WAY TO BRING IT BACK, DEAL WITH IT.
We'll see how long it lasts :)

[Benz]

Habbo's definition of Gambling is placing or accepting bets on the outcome of a specific event. Betting on horse, betting on habbos, even betting on what colour the grass will be... it's all gambling. So you're still in the wrong. Sometimes you just have to accept that.

LOL you're just making stuff up now. There are three things completely wrong with what you just said.

1. The legal definition of Gambling is external to habbo they can't make up what it is.
2. Habbo doesn't have a definition for Gambling, in-fact I challenge you to find a single reference to it in habbo's rules. GG in-itself
3. You said: "Habbo's definition of Gambling is placing or accepting bets on the outcome of a specific event"
please tell me where you found this because it is a LIE, you have now made up facts to try and support your failed argument.
Habbo's real policy on betting is as you quoted before: "Using furni that randomizes games with the possibility to place bets can get you into trouble." broadly speaking.



Yes I did, congratulations. You can read.

I was just repeating what you said so everyone could see my response and realise how idiotic you are.



You're twisting Habbo's words. You said yourself you have obstacles in the horse racing room you use. that's furniture is it not? & it has to be random otherwise there's no point betting on it as people will just bet the one that wins. So it may not be exact randomising items, like dice, etc, but the random aspect is still there with the way you place the obstacles.

I'm not twisting anything, habbo has stated that in order to be breaking a rule an element of randomisation must be present when taking bets. That is very clear.
I do use objects yes, that is furniture, yes. Why you say it has to be random.. I'm confused? It doesn't have to be anything. The wired on the objects is to move back and forward every 2 seconds and not randomly, otherwise you'd have a very valid point. So are you ready to admit you got that completely wrong?



You know what they say, when you run out of valid points, you turn to insults.

I do agree with you here normally, I just get so frustrated with people when I'm arguing things which cannot be disputed because they are absolute.

[James]

LOL you're just making stuff up now. There are three things completely wrong with what you just said.

1. The legal definition of Gambling is external to habbo they can't make up what it is.
2. Habbo doesn't have a definition for Gambling, in-fact I challenge you to find a single reference to it in habbo's rules. GG in-itself
3. You said: "Habbo's definition of Gambling is placing or accepting bets on the outcome of a specific event"
please tell me where you found this because it is a LIE, you have now made up facts to try and support your failed argument.
Habbo's real policy on betting is as you quoted before: "Using furni that randomizes games with the possibility to place bets can get you into trouble." broadly speaking.



I was just repeating what you said so everyone could see my response and realise how idiotic you are.

[/FONT]

I'm not twisting anything, habbo has stated that in order to be breaking a rule an element of randomisation must be present when taking bets. That is very clear.
I do use objects yes, that is furniture, yes. Why you say it has to be random.. I'm confused? It doesn't have to be anything. The wired on the objects is to move back and forward every 2 seconds and not randomly, otherwise you'd have a very valid point. So are you ready to admit you got that completely wrong?


[/COLOR][/FONT]

I do agree with you here normally, I just get so frustrated with people when I'm arguing things which cannot be disputed because they are absolute.

[/COLOR]

Gunna head to bed so won't reply to this thread again. I'll let you do you & I'll leave you to it, but best of luck with the petition & keeping your trade pass.

[Reality]

Firstly, if you've found a way of doing it great, then why the need to make a petition? Just causes arguments like seen above.
Secondly, I don't know how you can take it upon yourself to make a judgement of calling someone "idiotic" and "messed up" just because of a negative response to a thread...
If you want to call someone "idiotic" or "messed up" then at least get to know them first, instead of you pointlessly "mad rage'ing' because you're WRONG" about the whole negative responses. If you make a thread expect positive and negative responses otherwise, don't make them at all...
Is there no end to your stupidity. You're just in a mad rage because you're WRONG.

LOOOL you think just because more people say something is right that means it is... you are a joke. I don't care how many people think themselves it is "Gambling" I've explained in about 5 posts previously how the definition is absolute YOU CANNOT CHANGE IT. I don't care how messed up your own opinion is, betting with virtual goods such as coins do not directly constitute as an object with financial worth THEREFORE IT IS NOT GAMBLING, THE END, YOU LOSE.

Thank you for saving me the time and quoting the rule myself as I would have done, you're really shooting yourself in the foot. You said the following:

"So with that, please explain to me how what you are doing is "legal" and not gambling??"

Ok I will with the quote you provided.

"Using furni that randomizes games with the possibility to place bets"

As I've already explained but clearly you have not read correctly, my game is 100% non randomized. e.g. for someone as idiotic as you, doesn't involve any random elements. It is therefore considered player skill and LEGAL.

LOOL do you not understand that because habbo have given the trade pass back they also agree with my arguement, well to be honest there's nothing to agree with. IT IS FACT. Only an idiot like you couldn't understand that.

I speak for myself that if everyone in that spoiler shares the same view you do then they too are either honestly mistaken or just fools.

OH AND BETTING IS BACK BECAUSE I FOUND A WAY TO BRING IT BACK, DEAL WITH IT.

[Benz]

Firstly, if you've found a way of doing it great, then why the need to make a petition? Just causes arguments like seen above.
Secondly, I don't know how you can take it upon yourself to make a judgement of calling someone "idiotic" and "messed up" just because of a negative response to a thread...
If you want to call someone "idiotic" or "messed up" then at least get to know them first, instead of you pointlessly "mad rage'ing' because you're WRONG" about the whole negative responses. If you make a thread expect positive and negative responses otherwise, don't make them at all...

I agree with you, however as I explained in this particular thread I found myself repeating myself over and over with something which cannot be argued - the definition of a word.. I was lost with what to do next to get it through some peoples heads and I'm not even going to go into depth on the conversation with Viba, he even made up his own definition for a word which doesn't even exist on the habbo site.. I mean I don't need to get to know someone to know that's is idiotic, sorry.

[Hannah]

I'm sorry but you're calling people stupid because they aren't seeing your point (which is wrong), but you refuse to even acknowledge theirs. Where is the logic?

Habbo are not going to accept gambling, no matter how much you huff and puff about it. Get over it and leave the thread be before you dig yourself a hole that even a ladder won't get you out of.

Also, trying to work your way around the no gambling rule will not end well for you - but good luck with your endeavours. :-)

[Zak]

OH AND BETTING IS BACK BECAUSE I FOUND A WAY TO BRING IT BACK, DEAL WITH IT.

There are plenty of ways to bet in Habbo without the need for dice. I've had a room for a while that doesn't use dice but you could certainly place bets on the outcome. It doesn't mean that the concept won't be banned though if Habbo catch word of what is going on.

Unfortunately Habbo staff aren't the sharpest knives in the drawer and it may take them a few years.. lol

[IWishIWasCool]

''hello i would like to start a petition so i can scam kids on a game built for little kids lol''

[Benz]

I'm sorry but you're calling people stupid because they aren't seeing your point (which is wrong), but you refuse to even acknowledge theirs. Where is the logic?

Habbo are not going to accept gambling, no matter how much you huff and puff about it. Get over it and leave the thread be before you dig yourself a hole that even a ladder won't get you out of.

Also, trying to work your way around the no gambling rule will not end well for you - but good luck with your endeavours. :-)

You can't argue with a definition, I don't care how but hurt all you lot are over casinos. Fact is fact. I can only acknowledge their points when they make sense. I mean the last person I replied to downright made up his own definition and said habbo considered gambling as such.. it's just a lie and quite frankly a-lot of other posts have been as-well. If this was a court room I would have won this case by now.

- - - Updated - - -


There are plenty of ways to bet in Habbo without the need for dice. I've had a room for a while that doesn't use dice but you could certainly place bets on the outcome. It doesn't mean that the concept won't be banned though if Habbo catch word of what is going on.

Unfortunately Habbo staff aren't the sharpest knives in the drawer and it may take them a few years.. lol

I mean I've had several successful appeals in which Habbo tell me what I am doing (taking bets) is perfectly legal. If you're trying to say they can always change the rules around it, thought that was a bit obvious haha.

[Brayden]

I don't support this but if you want to bring that kind of stuff back you can try.

Any idiot willing to waste real money on virtual "Credits" then waste those Credits in a virtual casino can just go ahead and do it.