Problems with the Wiki

[Martin]

I think someone has been trashing the wiki as several pages have been defaced


http://habboxwiki.com/Special:RecentChanges


http://habboxwiki.com/Laura (http://habboxwiki.com/Laura) (http://habboxwiki.com/Laura)

www.habboxwiki.com/bolt660 (http://www.habboxwiki.com/bolt660) :'(



Is there any way to restore them? and ban the person that's doing it?

[Jordan]

Ugh that one on Laura's page :(


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[Martin]

Ugh that one on Laura's page :(


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That image is on like 200 pages now :'(

[Chris]

Unfortunately I don't have wiki perms. I've let Matt and Laura know though.

[Samantha]

It's under control now, I had super staff perms making it a simple 1 click revert - although now all the General Management team have admin.

Laura has it sorted though :).

[scottish]

what image

[Martin]

what image


There was a pretty horrible gif/video thing of a mouse getting blended, it was disgusting :( Went onto the file and it was posted on hundreds of pages haha.


The person that did it is an idiot.

[lawrawrrr]

I'm not as clued up with the Wiki systems as I should be really, but I'll let you know what I've done anyway.

For now, the entire database has been locked, and I've messaged Will who knows it well to help us out. This means that noone will be able to edit any futher. The image file itself has been deleted from the databases which means it shouldn't appear on any pages.

Unfortunately, this particular attacker has targetted the Wiki on many occasions over a very long period of time. It's sad that people have to go to this lengths to get noticed really but ho hum.

Hopefully will have more information in the morning for you!

[buttons]

'We want more cheese' is that the best they could come up with

[Martin]

Thanks guys for sorting it so quickly! :)

[James]

Who was it?

[lawrawrrr]

'We want more cheese' is that the best they could come up with
when it was with the image pretty horrific!

Thanks guys for sorting it so quickly! :)
No worries :) It's kinda been happening all evening - I've actually been very pleasantly surprised with the number of people who have come to me and asked about it! Shows you guys are paying attention to it :

I wish I could have fixed it myself but yeah the system is just so difficult for me :( Might have to spend some time this summer looking into it!

Riiight I should go back to sleep now (was just drifting off when Chris' text woke me up ahahhaa)

- - - Updated - - -


Who was it?
On my list to find out tomorrow :)

[Martin]

when it was with the image pretty horrific!

No worries :) It's kinda been happening all evening - I've actually been very pleasantly surprised with the number of people who have come to me and asked about it! Shows you guys are paying attention to it :

I wish I could have fixed it myself but yeah the system is just so difficult for me :( Might have to spend some time this summer looking into it!

Riiight I should go back to sleep now (was just drifting off when Chris' text woke me up ahahhaa)

- - - Updated - - -


On my list to find out tomorrow :)


Yeah I needed to find out the date of something so whipped out my wiki page and it was blank haha! :(


Night Laura x

[lawrawrrr]

Yeah I needed to find out the date of something so whipped out my wiki page and it was blank haha! :(


Night Laura x
We'll deffo revert all the changes back, even if I have to do it manually! I'll post an update as soon as I can x

[FlyingJesus]

Most action it's ever had

[Mikey]

He came into the Help Desk and was bragging about it to me. Don't know if this will help but his Habbo name is deleracar.

lawrawrrr

[Reality]

As I can see on the history I think the user has now been banned from the Wiki and pages will be amended in due-course :] - From what I can draft is Bolt660's page is easily regain-able. However, laura's is going to be most difficult to revert changes too s:

[-Nick]

He came into the Help Desk and was bragging about it to me. Don't know if this will help but his Habbo name is deleracar.

@lawrawrrr (http://www.habboxforum.com/member.php?u=61966)

Unfortunately, Habbo would never release IP addresses. Also, the same person a few days ago (we presume) attacked the wiki which we reverted quickly. We've banned the person from the wiki more then once but (s)he keeps getting new IP's and new accounts.

[xxMATTGxx]

Unfortunately, Habbo would never release IP addresses. Also, the same person a few days ago (we presume) attacked the wiki which we reverted quickly. We've banned the person from the wiki more then once but (s)he keeps getting new IP's and new accounts.

We already have their IP addresses, we don't need to ask Habbo for them.

[Empired]

Unfortunately, Habbo would never release IP addresses. Also, the same person a few days ago (we presume) attacked the wiki which we reverted quickly. We've banned the person from the wiki more then once but (s)he keeps getting new IP's and new accounts.
I was in there at the same time as Mikey and this person was saying they've been doing it for ages so yeh, it was probably the same person a few days ago.

On the "bright" side, they did say the rat wasn't actually processed, apparently it was an animation :(

[-Nick]

I was in there at the same time as Mikey and this person was saying they've been doing it for ages so yeh, it was probably the same person a few days ago.

On the "bright" side, they did say the rat wasn't actually processed, apparently it was an animation :(

Thanks Empired! We did have a this problem on Tuesday, we cannot do much more then we are doing now due to the changes of the IP addresses each time. But we are moderating the wiki every so often and we will do our best to make sure it stops.

As it is a "wiki" and it is 50% our job to maintain the wiki - we won't be able to keep the database for ever! It will hopefully be soon though.

[lawrawrrr]

Thanks Empired! We did have a this problem on Tuesday, we cannot do much more then we are doing now due to the changes of the IP addresses each time. But we are moderating the wiki every so often and we will do our best to make sure it stops.

As it is a "wiki" and it is 50% our job to maintain the wiki - we won't be able to keep the database for ever! It will hopefully be soon though.

The same person has been doing it for a lot longer than a week unfortunately :/


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[Samantha]

As I can see on the history I think the user has now been banned from the Wiki and pages will be amended in due-course :] - From what I can draft is Bolt660's page is easily regain-able. However, laura's is going to be most difficult to revert changes too s:

It only takes a couple of clicks to revert it.

The same person did it around this time last year, I remember being on holiday and using my dongle Internet to revert the lmao.

[Reality]

You know your page was ruined as well?
It only takes a couple of clicks to revert it.

The same person did it around this time last year, I remember being on holiday and using my dongle Internet to revert the lmao.

[Samantha]

You know your page was ruined as well?

Yeah, I blocked their account so they made a clone and trashed my page lol.

[Reality]

Oh God... I suggested something to laura on Skype which I'll message you now. Send me a message when you next come on!
Yeah, I blocked their account so they made a clone and trashed my page lol.

[xxMATTGxx]

The majority of the problems should be fixed now. We are still reviewing the situation.

[Inseriousity.]

maybe something like the forum used to have where the first 5 edits have to be approved first? not sure if that's possible or even if generally speaking non-staff have ever reached +5 edits but just a thought

[Reality]

I suggested this to Matt yesterday as well as laura. The problem is the person who did it in the first place isn't here anymore... and the wiki is hella complicated to use on the admin side so Matt and Tom tried fixing it yesterday, still need to figure it out, but hopefully will be put in place!
maybe something like the forum used to have where the first 5 edits have to be approved first? not sure if that's possible or even if generally speaking non-staff have ever reached +5 edits but just a thought

[Logandyer45]

I'm not as clued up with the Wiki systems as I should be really, but I'll let you know what I've done anyway.

For now, the entire database has been locked, and I've messaged Will who knows it well to help us out. This means that noone will be able to edit any futher. The image file itself has been deleted from the databases which means it shouldn't appear on any pages.

Unfortunately, this particular attacker has targetted the Wiki on many occasions over a very long period of time. It's sad that people have to go to this lengths to get noticed really but ho hum.

Hopefully will have more information in the morning for you!

What about Content staff?


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[Reality]

For now the permissions aren't set properly and content staff will be getting permissions tonight! Or later tomorrow! :]
What about Content staff?


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[Logandyer45]

For now the permissions aren't set properly and content staff will be getting permissions tonight! Or later tomorrow! :]

Gotcha. I have an account named LoganD

[lawrawrrr]

Any problems will have to go straight to Matt for the time being, I'm on a train and not going to be online as much over the next week! :(

[Reality]

Wiki is fixed!


No one but wiki staff and admins are allowed to make edits or deletions to pages now. This being from the recent vandalism of other wiki "contributors." It wasn't really the best possible way of dealing with things; until it has died down and we think that the wiki is going to be safe, then this will stay imposed!

[Recursion]

I ended up restoring the DB back to the previous morning for this, it was the quickest and easiest way to clean it up in the end. Not that much hassle really, so not sure what these guys are trying to get out of it...


[CENTER][B]Wiki is not fixed!

How so?

[Reality]

I meant is
awkies
I ended up restoring the DB back to the previous morning for this, it was the quickest and easiest way to clean it up in the end. Not that much hassle really, so not sure what these guys are trying to get out of it...



How so?

[Martin]

I ended up restoring the DB back to the previous morning for this, it was the quickest and easiest way to clean it up in the end. Not that much hassle really, so not sure what these guys are trying to get out of it...



How so?

It's good that it was quite easy to fix in the end! :)


and yeah, it's really pathetic really, they must have spent quite a bit of time doing all that too! Idiots ;l

[xxMATTGxx]

I meant is
awkies

I've fixed your post then :P

[Reality]

Think of it as minecraft rollbacks ;) a few clicks its done (kinda)!!!
The time they spent was probably was minimal all they did was load wikipedia.com >> Searches name >> C+Ps random info >> Looks like a fool.
It's good that it was quite easy to fix in the end! :)


and yeah, it's really pathetic really, they must have spent quite a bit of time doing all that too! Idiots ;l

[Martin]

Think of it as minecraft rollbacks ;) a few clicks its done (kinda)!!!
The time they spent was probably was minimal all they did was load wikipedia.com >> Searches name >> C+Ps random info >> Looks like a fool.

Oh :P that's simple then! People were talking about having to possibly manually edit stuff back haha, so its good it was so quick!


and yeah I guess, although it was on like hundreds of pages so even copying and pasting and choosing specific pages to trash must have taken a little while!

I don't know what they hoped to achieve really other than looking like an absolute ****.

[Zak]

DB backup would have been the easiest :P Tbh I think only known contributors should get rights to edit and update it. I know that isn't the point of a wiki but solves issues like this arising. :P

I went to edit an article earlier and I couldn't do anything and I was like oh something must have gone down :P

[-Nick]

DB backup would have been the easiest :P Tbh I think only known contributors should get rights to edit and update it. I know that isn't the point of a wiki but solves issues like this arising. :P

I went to edit an article earlier and I couldn't do anything and I was like oh something must have gone down :P

If you would like to edit something, we could possible sort something out. We are trying to sort something out when Joe is back.

[xxMATTGxx]

At this minute the Wiki is locked down so only content staff can edit or create anything on the Wiki. Although we have allowed other staff members permissions to edit as they have requested to do so. Could do this for other members who want to contribute to wiki as well for the time being. This is until Chippiewill is back from his holiday and we will review the situation then.

[GoldenMerc]

Can we still edit our own pages ?

[Zak]

Can we still edit our own pages ?

I couldn't edit mine. I tried to after I tried editing the Comedy Poster page.

[-Nick]

Can we still edit our own pages ?


I couldn't edit mine. I tried to after I tried editing the Comedy Poster page.

If either of you would like to make changes to a page. Just PM Wispur; on the forum and he can arrange something. Only Chris because Laura and Joe are both away currently :P.

[GommeInc]

How come Habbox can't even run a simple Wiki? Every independent Wiki I know (including Wikia) has dozens of rollback users. Instead of focusing on the mundane Habbox Hierarchy, give people permission to become admins and so forth on the Wiki to those who are active editors. Giving it to people who clearly have better things to do is ridiculous. The Wiki should be seen as a separate entity, with those high up in the hierarchy only being given the permissions if they have a use for them. It would be nice, if it's not done so already, to give admin perms to users who are active users who may not necessarily be staff elsewhere on Habbox. It's what the Wiki platform was designed for.

This is probably the most action the Wiki has seen for a long long time. I'm amazed it's still going. Most edits seem to be about Habbox Users, which is so incredibly boring and self-centred. Focus should be shifted on actual Habbo content but that maybe asking for far too much.

[xxMATTGxx]

How come Habbox can't even run a simple Wiki? Every independent Wiki I know (including Wikia) has dozens of rollback users. Instead of focusing on the mundane Habbox Hierarchy, give people permission to become admins and so forth on the Wiki to those who are active editors. Giving it to people who clearly have better things to do is ridiculous. The Wiki should be seen as a separate entity, with those high up in the hierarchy only being given the permissions if they have a use for them. It would be nice, if it's not done so already, to give admin perms to users who are active users who may not necessarily be staff elsewhere on Habbox. It's what the Wiki platform was designed for.

This is probably the most action the Wiki has seen for a long long time. I'm amazed it's still going. Most edits seem to be about Habbox Users, which is so incredibly boring and self-centred. Focus should be shifted on actual Habbo content but that maybe asking for far too much.

Who's saying we can't run a simple Wiki? A problem was reported to us and we took action to get it fixed. Like we would do if it happened to any of the other sites. It's only locked down at the moment while we get a better system in place in managing the page edits from non-staff user accounts.

[GommeInc]

Hire more people, it's what every other Wiki does. Users can self-moderate a Wiki with ease if you promote the right people - it's what the system was designed for. The image could have been removed (if there were enough admins) and/or edits reverted with a single push of a button, yet judging by the comments no such system was being properly utilised and as per usual took a bit too long to deal with. The only thing we have to be thankful for is that the Wiki seems to only be used by a very limited number of people.

The lockdown is incredibly pointless too. With the right way of using a Wiki any further edits could be resolved by "rollbackers", admins etc dealing with it. All you need to do is link the IP with a user on the forum and that's it, you don't need to lockdown a site which would do more harm than good - it stops the majority of good editors from doing what they enjoy.

EDIT: Why on earth are you not using the rollback system? There are no rollbackers in the Wiki and they're considered one of the simplest forms of promotion that can be seen as an incentive and reward for hard work editing a Wiki

http://habboxwiki.com/Special:ListUsers

[Zak]

I use the Wiki quite a lot actually. It's useful to lookup the origins of furniture and how they came about. I'd quite happily write content if I knew anything more about the furniture.
GommeInc; are you able to rollback all changes from a user's IP? I can imagine it's very simple in code terms (unless the content links to multiple tables). Issues like these would be resolved easily if Wiki's had that feature.

[GommeInc]

I use the Wiki quite a lot actually. It's useful to lookup the origins of furniture and how they came about. I'd quite happily write content if I knew anything more about the furniture.
GommeInc; are you able to rollback all changes from a user's IP? I can imagine it's very simple in code terms (unless the content links to multiple tables). Issues like these would be resolved easily if Wiki's had that feature.
You can rollback the changes a person has made on a single page by going to Special:RecentChanges and hitting rollback next to each edit and it will do it instantly. It's best to use the middle-mouse button rather than to left click, as it will only tell you the edits have been reverted. It's a simple tool you can give to standard editors once they've made enough edits or contributed significantly to the wiki. It's mostly used as a reward for continued good behaviour and as an incentive to contribute.

I think admins can completely revert a user's edits. It's not uncommon to have loads of admins on a wiki as the admin level user rights cannot do that much harm to a wiki, especially if you have a few active bureaucrats available who obviously will need to either be the creator of the wiki and a few very trusted individuals.

[xxMATTGxx]

Hire more people, it's what every other Wiki does. Users can self-moderate a Wiki with ease if you promote the right people - it's what the system was designed for. The image could have been removed (if there were enough admins) and/or edits reverted with a single push of a button, yet judging by the comments no such system was being properly utilised and as per usual took a bit too long to deal with. The only thing we have to be thankful for is that the Wiki seems to only be used by a very limited number of people.

The lockdown is incredibly pointless too. With the right way of using a Wiki any further edits could be resolved by "rollbackers", admins etc dealing with it. All you need to do is link the IP with a user on the forum and that's it, you don't need to lockdown a site which would do more harm than good - it stops the majority of good editors from doing what they enjoy.

EDIT: Why on earth are you not using the rollback system? There are no rollbackers in the Wiki and they're considered one of the simplest forms of promotion that can be seen as an incentive and reward for hard work editing a Wiki

http://habboxwiki.com/Special:ListUsers

We was all doing manual reverts on the stuff we could see that was created or changed. At time I was trying to find a way to do ALL the changes from that specific user reverted like I would have thought was possible but my knowledge on the Wiki is low compared to what I know about vBulletin and on other software. I was going to ask someone who knew a lot more about it (Chippiewill) but turned out he’s been away recently so I was unable to get his assistance on the matter. A lot of the changes were reverted back manually and we also did a database roll back due to another error we came across which then did all the reverts anyway as they didn’t damage it at 3am that morning.

The IPs of the attacking users were cross-referenced to the forum as that is what we always do – No matches. The IP’s were banned. Now changing your IP isn't rocket science and anyone can easily do that – Hence why a lockdown was put in place until we got everything sorted. We then allowed specific user groups on the wiki to be able to edit the content, create pages and so on. This all just a temp. measure until I can speak to Will who has already said he is looking into making changes. Then I will also speak to him about how to do specific tasks so we know how to deal with this more effectively in the future.

Don’t even know why we are all still debating about this – We already know the concerns and already raised a number of questions to stop it from repeating. Might be a surprise to some people but I’m not a full on idiot.

[scottish]

didn't you say the guys done it loads before, so surely you'd have better measures/more knowledgeable people in place to deal with it?

[xxMATTGxx]

didn't you say the guys done it loads before, so surely you'd have better measures/more knowledgeable people in place to deal with it?

I didn't say that personally.

[lawrawrrr]

Matts pretty much taken the words out of my mouth there, great reply.

As for the "hire more people" comment... we're trying! Apps have been open for over a year - at least - and there are simply very few people who are knowledgable on it. That's why we rely on certain individuals, who, understandably, aren't always available.

But we fixed it almost straight away - I removed the image and manually rolled back a LOT of edits, using the middle button thing someone just mentioned. It's only after then we started looking into alternatives as a safeguard for the future.

I'd be happy to give certain trusted users editor privileges in the mean time, but you'll have to go through Chris and Matt because I'm not near a computer for a few days.


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[GommeInc]

Matts pretty much taken the words out of my mouth there, great reply.

As for the "hire more people" comment... we're trying! Apps have been open for over a year - at least - and there are simply very few people who are knowledgable on it. That's why we rely on certain individuals, who, understandably, aren't always available.

But we fixed it almost straight away - I removed the image and manually rolled back a LOT of edits, using the middle button thing someone just mentioned. It's only after then we started looking into alternatives as a safeguard for the future.

I'd be happy to give certain trusted users editor privileges in the mean time, but you'll have to go through Chris and Matt because I'm not near a computer for a few days.


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You don't have people "apply" to work on a wiki... This is my point that you don't seem to know how to use one! They're meant to be open, it's the whole point of the Wiki platform. Anyone should be able to edit the Wiki, not people who "applied" for it. You simply promote them to have rollback privileges and go from there! But for some reason you've disabled it and have some weird application system which never works. A promotion system is far more effective.

User edits a lot > You either have a promotion page OR offer them a promotion to "rollbacker" > they continue doing good work > promote them to admin / they apply through an open promotion page > they become admin

And so forth. You're meant to treat the promotion process like a job application.

[lawrawrrr]

You don't have people "apply" to work on a wiki... This is my point that you don't seem to know how to use one! They're meant to be open, it's the whole point of the Wiki platform. Anyone should be able to edit the Wiki, not people who "applied" for it. You simply promote them to have rollback privileges and go from there! But for some reason you've disabled it and have some weird application system which never works. A promotion system is far more effective.

User edits a lot > You either have a promotion page OR offer them a promotion to "rollbacker" > they continue doing good work > promote them to admin / they apply through an open promotion page > they become admin

And so forth. You're meant to treat the promotion process like a job application.

People who do a lot of edits do get offered positions - all content staff have privileges to roll back, as well as other permissions that normal "editors" won't have.


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[GommeInc]

People who do a lot of edits do get offered positions - all content staff have privileges to roll back, as well as other permissions that normal "editors" won't have.


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You don't give people who edit wikis "positions" as such. You just give normal users rollback abilities and go from there. Is the Wiki not being treated independently from Habbox? Because that might be the problem and would explain why it seems to be a Habbox Wiki rather than a general Habbo Wiki, hence barely any interest outside the Habbox ecosystem.

[nvrspk4]

Gomme seems like they already implemented something similar to your suggestion from the getgo - from earlier in the thread seems like all AGMs didn't have access to reverse changes and as a result of this they and some managers got the privileges. Though I guess not specifically for the rollback feature.

But I think Gomme's initial point is a good one -trying to build a user-centric base instead of needing to hire a formal staff to maintain it. If you give 100 users (example) who are known forum members (and thus have a clear disincentive to not screw around - a forum ban for deliberate vandalism), you have pretty wide-ranging protection as any one of them can hop on and revert issues. Nobody's going to risk a ban on the forum just to put silly content up on the Wiki.

Furthermore, I dunno if this is possible but as a method for further protecting the Wiki - require that to be validated by an admin for editing privileges users have a forum account for at least 3 months or 250 posts (I obviously threw those numbers out there randomly, it's really just a non-zero commitment that proves some investment.)

If you think that a substantial contribution comes from non-forum members or new members, make edits available to the public but require that all edits by individuals below the threshold be approved by an admin. After x number of valid edits, users could be upgraded into the edit-capable group even if they don't have the requisite forum credentials.

Anyway I think he has a point that you could use normal users to have a large enough crowd that vandalism isn't worth the effort. Even if it's hard to get users amped up about the Wiki, if you can make it a status game (which people love, see post count and rep reductions) it could have an effect. Especially if there were Wiki admin/rollbacker awards :P But even if the community doesn't latch onto the Wiki, if you give Gomme (just an example of a well-known member, he may not appreciate my volunteering him :P) and 20 other well known Habbox members rollback capability, even though he may not edit the wiki ever, when something like this happens a member can ping him and I'm sure he'll have the decency to remove the animal-in-blender image via rollback. Of course this is all predicated on Gomme's argument that the various levels of privileges have little to no ability to cause lasting damage even if one of them goes "rogue" which seems pretty plausible given the extensive versioning that comes with Wikis. Just a different way of looking at the problem :)

I figure its worth putting in here since the old conversation seems to be much concluded...but can start a new thread on it if you want :P

[Zak]

If someone had access to the database everything could be picked out using MySQL queries :D

[nvrspk4]

You don't give people who edit wikis "positions" as such. You just give normal users rollback abilities and go from there. Is the Wiki not being treated independently from Habbox? Because that might be the problem and would explain why it seems to be a Habbox Wiki rather than a general Habbo Wiki, hence barely any interest outside the Habbox ecosystem.

I don't necessarily think that's true. A Habbox base of strength is both good and necessary for launching, but I also agree that the ecosystem does need to spread past Habbox for it to be a big success. I think admin staff at the top are needed and that's where Habbox officials come in but yeah I also agree that a large non-staff contingent would lead to rapid growth. Though I guess those people don't yet exist :P

[lawrawrrr]

You don't give people who edit wikis "positions" as such. You just give normal users rollback abilities and go from there. Is the Wiki not being treated independently from Habbox? Because that might be the problem and would explain why it seems to be a Habbox Wiki rather than a general Habbo Wiki, hence barely any interest outside the Habbox ecosystem.

For the same reason HabboxLive isn't - because we're one organization with four different arms.

All Habbox staff members have a certain code of conduct and level of work we expect from them, if we allowed people to have permissions there is a certain risk because they could *technically* do anything. It's a matter of trust.

If we did do what you suggested, nothing would change anyway. This thread started because of an issue with someone editing, the problem was eradicated within half an hour, and the roll backs were mainly done within 2, although I did have to stop to sleep.

There are 6 people capable of rolling back, at the moment, and that is MORE than enough, there is no need for any more arbitrary promotions.


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[GommeInc]

Gomme seems like they already implemented something similar to your suggestion from the getgo - from earlier in the thread seems like all AGMs didn't have access to reverse changes and as a result of this they and some managers got the privileges. Though I guess not specifically for the rollback feature.

...

But I think Gomme's initial point is a good one -trying to build a user-centric base instead of needing to hire a formal staff to maintain it. If you give 100 users (example) who are known forum members (and thus have a clear disincentive to not screw around - a forum ban for deliberate vandalism), you have pretty wide-ranging protection as any one of them can hop on and revert issues. Nobody's going to risk a ban on the forum just to put silly content up on the Wiki.

...

Furthermore, I dunno if this is possible but as a method for further protecting the Wiki - require that to be validated by an admin for editing privileges users have a forum account for at least 3 months or 250 posts (I obviously threw those numbers out there randomly, it's really just a non-zero commitment that proves some investment.)

If you think that a substantial contribution comes from non-forum members or new members, make edits available to the public but require that all edits by individuals below the threshold be approved by an admin. After x number of valid edits, users could be upgraded into the edit-capable group even if they don't have the requisite forum credentials.

Anyway I think he has a point that you could use normal users to have a large enough crowd that vandalism isn't worth the effort. Even if it's hard to get users amped up about the Wiki, if you can make it a status game (which people love, see post count and rep reductions) it could have an effect. Especially if there were Wiki admin/rollbacker awards :P But even if the community doesn't latch onto the Wiki, if you give Gomme (just an example of a well-known member, he may not appreciate my volunteering him :P) and 20 other well known Habbox members rollback capability, even though he may not edit the wiki ever, when something like this happens a member can ping him and I'm sure he'll have the decency to remove the animal-in-blender image via rollback. Of course this is all predicated on Gomme's argument that the various levels of privileges have little to no ability to cause lasting damage even if one of them goes "rogue" which seems pretty plausible given the extensive versioning that comes with Wikis. Just a different way of looking at the problem :)

I figure its worth putting in here since the old conversation seems to be much concluded...but can start a new thread on it if you want :P
Technically rollback privileges to ordinary editors just means they can bypass the "undo" function. Instead of the usual editing page coming up where you have to click "save changes" you just click rollback and it will do it instantly. It's quick and surprisingly more effective than just undoing changes manually despite there being minimal effort. It wouldn't give them a power buzz as they're still basic users, so if they abused it it would be a quick fix. It wouldn't be like deleting entire pages, for instance.


For the same reason HabboxLive isn't - because we're one organization with four different arms.

All Habbox staff members have a certain code of conduct and level of work we expect from them, if we allowed people to have permissions there is a certain risk because they could *technically* do anything. It's a matter of trust.

If we did do what you suggested, nothing would change anyway. This thread started because of an issue with someone editing, the problem was eradicated within half an hour, and the roll backs were mainly done within 2, although I did have to stop to sleep.

There are 6 people capable of rolling back, at the moment, and that is MORE than enough, there is no need for any more arbitrary promotions.


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They *technically* can't do anything. They're just rollbackers. They wouldn't need to go through the boring pages of Habbox Conduct as the Wiki, I hope, already has a page saying that users should only undo changes (which is all a rollbacker is doing) for x reasons. They wouldn't need to be actual staff as they're not actual staff and shouldn't be treated as such. Again, this seems to be an issue with Habbox trying to do a tried and proven task and doing a strange, inadequate twist on it.

Also, if you're treating the Wiki as one of Habbox arms no wonder it's not doing anything these days other than being used a place to edit pages based on Habbox members and deterring new editors who have no incentive to edit... 6 capable rollbackers is not enough. On a small wiki I'm a bureaucrat on there are 16 users with rollback privileges, and unwanted edits are almost non-existent and dealt with almost instantaneously. And they're just ordinary editors who are only interested in editing and the ability helps them keep their pages clean if they're big-time editors as well as help them deal with problems if they notice something if an admin is not around. Furthermore, it keeps them interested which seems to be an issue with the Habbox Wiki.

[nvrspk4]

Technically rollback privileges to ordinary editors just means they can bypass the "undo" function. Instead of the usual editing page coming up where you have to click "save changes" you just click rollback and it will do it instantly. It's quick and surprisingly more effective than just undoing changes manually despite there being minimal effort. It wouldn't give them a power buzz as they're still basic users, so if they abused it it would be a quick fix. It wouldn't be like deleting entire pages, for instance.

Then I think it's a hugely rational suggestion, and currently the bog is over the framing of the issue of "why wasn't this done in the past" rather than a potential improvement going forward. Laura - given that rollback doesn't seem to be a privilege with much damage-potential (I assume undoing a rollback is fairly simple) is it feasible to make rolling it out to known users outside of staff a part of whatever solution is found for the wiki?

[-Nick]

How many people try to destroy and ruin HabboxWiki? Hardly 10 (we think) out of the est. 7.046 billion (2012) people on the earth. Why does everyone need access to rollbacks? Within an hour the issue is normally resolved by people who already have access. Theres no need for unnecessary risks of people abusing these privileges.

[nvrspk4]

How many people try to destroy and ruin HabboxWiki? Hardly 10 (we think) out of the est. 7.046 billion (2012) people on the earth. Why does everyone need access to rollbacks? Within an hour the issue is normally resolved by people who already have access. Theres no need for unnecessary risks of people abusing these privileges.

Well it depends on the future of the Wiki. If access to edits is given out widely (which may be needed to make the wiki a success) it could be more common. What's the risk of giving people rollback ability? Especially since Gomme mentioned its really just a faster version of something that someone with edit privileges would be able to do anyway?

[GommeInc]

How many people try to destroy and ruin HabboxWiki? Hardly 10 (we think) out of the est. 7.046 billion (2012) people on the earth. Why does everyone need access to rollbacks? Within an hour the issue is normally resolved by people who already have access. Theres no need for unnecessary risks of people abusing these privileges.
If you think you can abuse a Wiki with rollback privileges you do not know what it is. It's a convenience tool to undo edits without being greeted by the undo changes page, nothing more. Also, as I've said - it's an incentive for ordinary members to edit. If you have a usual promotion system, regular editors can strive for rollback privileges, then after this possible admin privileges and so on. You shouldn't need an application system, but a standard promotion page where editors can be nominated or nominate themselves and from there on other editors can agree or disagree. It's a clever system that keeps people interested and creates a small community which works surprisingly well on successful wikis.

[-Nick]

Well it depends on the future of the Wiki. If access to edits is given out widely (which may be needed to make the wiki a success) it could be more common. What's the risk of giving people rollback ability? Especially since Gomme mentioned its really just a faster version of something that someone with edit privileges would be able to do anyway?

The risk of the rollback ability is people abusing it and people using it on edits which are well written and contributing well to wiki. Which means someone who is sensible/mature enough to rollback the rollback. Which is just not needed at the moment.

[nvrspk4]

The risk of the rollback ability is people abusing it and people using it on edits which are well written and contributing well to wiki. Which means someone who is sensible/mature enough to rollback the rollback. Which is just not needed at the moment.

If you're only giving rollback to people who would have edit permissions in the first place, how is there any more of a risk of defacing a wiki? Sure it's not needed at the moment because the wiki is inactive and locked down, but assuming that HxWiki starts to thrive, it would be more useful. Wouldn't it be better to have the groundwork and system in place?

[-Nick]

If you're only giving rollback to people who would have edit permissions in the first place, how is there any more of a risk of defacing a wiki? Sure it's not needed at the moment because the wiki is inactive and locked down, but assuming that HxWiki starts to thrive, it would be more useful. Wouldn't it be better to have the groundwork and system in place?

When the wiki does start to thrive a little more, I suppose Laura and Joe will maybe put something new into place. However as the Content department is on a low at the moment, I cannot see the wiki starting to have a 100's of edits daily to have a rollback system in place for the public to use. Content staff don't use the rollback system daily, the first time I used it was last tuesday and I've been in the department for nearly 7 months with a small break.

[nvrspk4]

When the wiki does start to thrive a little more, I suppose Laura and Joe will maybe put something new into place. However as the Content department is on a low at the moment, I cannot see the wiki starting to have a 100's of edits daily to have a rollback system in place for the public to use. Content staff don't use the rollback system daily, the first time I used it was last tuesday and I've been in the department for nearly 7 months with a small break.

Think the point is (and I agree) that if the major source of updates is the content team then HxWiki won't work too well as a Wiki...a substantial volunteer userbase is needed. But then maybe HxWiki isn't intended to be a traditional wiki, but just another Habbox content item - similar to the old Habbo Knowledge page but organized in the format of a wiki to make it easier for Content Staff to edit and an easier layout for users to follow.

Guess there's a baser question as to what the model of the HxWiki is supposed to be - if that's been defined?

[GommeInc]

When the wiki does start to thrive a little more, I suppose Laura and Joe will maybe put something new into place. However as the Content department is on a low at the moment, I cannot see the wiki starting to have a 100's of edits daily to have a rollback system in place for the public to use. Content staff don't use the rollback system daily, the first time I used it was last tuesday and I've been in the department for nearly 7 months with a small break.
Hence you have the system as an incentive. If you look at most Wikia sites, they use the rollback system as an incentive for good, hard-working editors to have more reign over their edits. At the moment it is a closed Wiki, even before and after the lockdown, which explains why it isn't garnering as much attention as it probably should. It doesn't help having a "them and us" attitude with "the public" either, especially when the system cannot be abused to the point it does damage - it only undoes the last edit after all which is hardly damaging.

[Recursion]

If you think you can abuse a Wiki with rollback privileges you do not know what it is. It's a convenience tool to undo edits without being greeted by the undo changes page, nothing more. Also, as I've said - it's an incentive for ordinary members to edit. If you have a usual promotion system, regular editors can strive for rollback privileges, then after this possible admin privileges and so on. You shouldn't need an application system, but a standard promotion page where editors can be nominated or nominate themselves and from there on other editors can agree or disagree. It's a clever system that keeps people interested and creates a small community which works surprisingly well on successful wikis.

I agree with everything GommeInc; has said in this thread.

[Chippiewill]

I've implemented some anti-vandalism measures, mass-rollback for general management and reinstated editing for accounts older than 12 hours.