Malaysia Airlines Flight MH17 - Crashed in East Ukraine

[xxMATTGxx]

@MAS: Malaysia Airlines has lost contact of MH17 from Amsterdam. The last known position was over Ukrainian airspace. More details to follow.

[Jssy]

Just read it was shot down going over Ukraine, how awful

[lemons]

OMG THIS IS AWFUL!

[Matthew]

Supposedly brought down by a ground to air missile.


Unbelievable.. RIP to those who died..

[Red]

awful!! Missing plane and now this. Never flying with malaysia airlines omg
Wasn't there one on the 13th too? My sis was flying to NZ at the time and my mum seen plane shot down on news and she was near having a panic attack

[myles]

oh not again ffs

[lemons]

really hope russia haven't shot it down :(

2nd major malaysia airlines incident this yr

[Jordan]

It was shot down :O


Sent from my iPhone 5s using Tapatalk

[xxMATTGxx]

Everything related to why it has crashed is in NOT confirmed and everyone is speclaulating at this moment in time. But it will not be the first time a country has shot down an airliner by mistake.

[karter]

absolutely devastating, wonder what happened

[buttons]

damn thought it was going to be news about mh370. from what iv seen so far its going to be the same old reporting 'facts' then denyingit eugh. absolutely devasting for the victims and their families.

[xxMATTGxx]

489804938470375425

[Sharon]

i have a feeling this isnt the last plane related incident for this yr and probs just the start... its sad what ppl r doing these days to get their points across

[Chris]

This is terrible :( RIP to those who died.

I'm now bricking it since I'm due to fly tomorrow. :(

[-Nick]

This is terrible :( RIP to those who died.

I'm now bricking it since I'm due to fly tomorrow. :(

Where you flying to?

R.I.P.

[xxMATTGxx]

Looks like the images shows a body of some sort. You've been warned.

489806899916050432

[Inseriousity.]

That airline not having the best of times recently. Sounds crass but at least the families will have closure with this incident, RIP to all those who died :(

[lucaskf390]

Jesus Christ, this is terrible. RIP

[Bankai90]

280 passengers and 15 crews inside the plane. Deepest condolences and sympathies towards the family members of the passengers and crews of MH17. :(

[Chris]

Where you flying to?

R.I.P.

Turkey


Looks like the images shows a body of some sort. You've been warned.

489806899916050432

It's bad enough seeing it on here, so it must be horrific to see that in person. :(

[passion]

What terrible news. RIP to those who have seemingly lost their lives, very sad.

[wixard]

my heart truly goes out to all those involved and affected by this
RIP to the victims

between this and the israel palestine conflict it's a little scary to think how oblivious we can be to everything thats happening outside of our country

[xxMATTGxx]

https://scontent-b-lhr.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xfp1/t1.0-9/10300210_10152166960047217_6754777937577541819_n.j pg

[-Nick]

https://scontent-b-lhr.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xfp1/t1.0-9/10300210_10152166960047217_6754777937577541819_n.j pg

It's all such a mess! Where did you get this image from?:O

[xxMATTGxx]

It's all such a mess! Where did you get this image from?:O

It's on the BBC News site - http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-28354856

[IzzyUhh]

Terrible news :( R.I.P To anyone who has died :(

[-Nick]

It's on the BBC News site - http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-28354856
Cheers Matt. The videos are interesting.

[wixard]

this also puts into perspective how big a crash site is, making MH730 seem that bit more bizarre that it essentially disappeared

[Michael]

Its truly devastating. Here is some pictures from the telegraph article:

- http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/ukraine/10974050/Malaysia-Airlines-plane-crashes-on-Ukraine-Russia-border-live.html

http://i.telegraph.co.uk/multimedia/archive/02978/malaysiacrash09_2978621c.jpg

http://i.telegraph.co.uk/multimedia/archive/02978/malaysiacrash08_2978618c.jpg

http://i.telegraph.co.uk/multimedia/archive/02978/malaysiacrash07_2978614c.jpg

[Evanora]

who wants to buy my Malaysian Airlines frequent flier miles?


Edited by mdport. (Trialist Forum Moderator): Please do not post pointlessly, Thanks!

[Danny]

Seen some pretty gruesome pics on Twitter... People have no shame and those that posted should be prosecuted...

[Futz]

theres some dreadful photos coming to light of passengers decapitated/mangled still in their seats

this is ******* horrible

a lot of information here if you're interested

http://www.reddit.com/r/worldnews/comments/2ayjwz/malaysian_plane_crashes_over_the_ukraine/

[Mikey]

Jeez.. the world is ****** up between this and the four boys killed on the beach in Gaza.

It's scary how these images get on the internet so quickly to the public.. :(

[karter]

some passenger's fb was posted where he has taken a photo of the plane and now his friends are freaking out

[Danny]

Is nobody else worried this could build upon other things to become another World War?

[karter]

they're a couple who were going on a holiday and according to the comments they have indeed died

[Stephen]

gonna stick to bbc for news

feel sick x100 just thinking that there's gory pictures around

[karter]

some passenger's fb was posted where he has taken a photo of the plane and now his friends are freaking out

The caption (in dutch) said : "If it disappears, here is how the plane looks like" referring to missing MH370

[buttons]

some passenger's fb was posted where he has taken a photo of the plane and now his friends are freaking out
i saw this on reddit. i do find it a bit weird that people can find that so easily. if its someone who was friends with him on facebook and saw him post the picture then went and shared the link to his profile with the public, its a bit disrespectful imo. fair enough to comment you saw someone had posted the picture and caption etc but to link to their profile is too far. i also find it weird how people have taken pictures of the bodies so casually. i don't think in a situation like that my first thoughts would be to take out my camera and share the pictures online.

[Danny]

i saw this on reddit. i do find it a bit weird that people can find that so easily. if its someone who was friends with him on facebook and saw him post the picture then went and shared the link to his profile with the public, its a bit disrespectful imo. fair enough to comment you saw someone had posted the picture and caption etc but to link to their profile is too far. i also find it weird how people have taken pictures of the bodies so casually. i don't think in a situation like that my first thoughts would be to take out my camera and share the pictures online.

This is why I question humanity... I saw somebody take a picture of passports they rounded up, seems a bit grim to me aswell really.

Somebody said actually, and it didn't occur to me, but how cold is it to post pictures of bodies before families even know that their loved ones have been murdered?

[Stephen]

Looks like the images shows a body of some sort. You've been warned.

489806899916050432

since when were we allowed to post gore on hxf

[Danny]

Interfax news agency says pro-Russian separatists in eastern Ukraine say they have found "black box" flight recorder from flight #MH17 (https://twitter.com/hashtag/MH17?src=hash)

I wouldn't want ANY of them involved in the conflict their finding it, you'd want proper investigation officials to find it... But that's just me not trusting them!

[j0rd]

Seen some pretty gruesome pics on Twitter... People have no shame and those that posted should be prosecuted...

gruesome but most definitely not prosecution worthy
it's reality that an awful thing has happened

[Danny]

gruesome but most definitely not prosecution worthy
it's reality that an awful thing has happened

Makes me so angry, apparently bodies of kids are being posted too.

[karter]

Makes me so angry, apparently bodies of kids are being posted too.

yeah i saw one, wish i could unsee :(

[xxMATTGxx]

Pro-Russian Rebel Commander: 'We Did Warn You — Do Not Fly in Our Sky'

http://mashable.com/2014/07/17/malaysia-airlines-ukraine-russia-rebel/?utm_cid=mash-com-Tw-main-link

[buttons]

Pro-Russian Rebel Commander: 'We Did Warn You — Do Not Fly in Our Sky'

http://mashable.com/2014/07/17/malaysia-airlines-ukraine-russia-rebel/?utm_cid=mash-com-Tw-main-link
"However, Strelkov deleted the post when he found out it was actually a commercial jetliner carrying 295 innocent people — not a military aircraft."

nvm i thought u meant he did it on purpose but guess u were just posting that he's taking responsibility for shooting down what he thought was the military

[dbgtz]

I don't know why people thinking taking photos is a bad and disgusting thing. There's only so much some people can do and taking photos helps to document the event for the sake of history.

[buttons]

I don't know why people thinking taking photos is a bad and disgusting thing. There's only so much some people can do and taking photos helps to document the event for the sake of history.
erm yeah at a scene of devestation and your first thoughts are "i need to take pictures of these dead bodies, before their relatives have seen and confirmed the bodies, for the sake of the rest of the world"...... erm nooooo. take pics of the crash ok but dead bodies i kinda draw the line at....

[lemons]

just saw on bbc news channel 2 couple with their baby who missed/didn't get on the flight that has crashed

wow

[xxMATTGxx]

A lot of images on this site of the crash site: http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2014/07/17/mh17-malaysia-ukraine-pic_n_5595821.html?1405617053&utm_hp_ref=uk#51_malaysia-airlines-to-hold-press-conference

[Woutou]

I heard a report coming in that they arnt able to search due to armed "terriorist" shooting at them

[-Nick]

Is nobody else worried this could build upon other things to become another World War?

I was thinking this, however i thought "why should other countries get involved?"

[Woutou]

Yea, I've been thinking that too! but why would other countries want to get involved in the conflict.

[xxMATTGxx]

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[GommeInc]

Shocking news. If it were rebels then Russia will be in trouble, as the rebels could not possibly have the firepower to shoot a plane down without some backing from Russia.

It's a bit worrying as I have a friend who is going back to Malaysia today, but I think she was flying from London and it seems strange if she were to go to Amsterdam to then go on to Kuala Lumpur.

[xxMATTGxx]

21:58:

There were 154 Dutch passengers on board the plane, says an airport official, and 27 Australians, 23 Malaysians, 11 from Indonesia, six from the UK, four Germans, four Belgians, three from the Philippines and one Canadian. More nationalities have yet to be counted.

:(

[GommeInc]

21:58:

There were 154 Dutch passengers on board the plane, says an airport official, and 27 Australians, 23 Malaysians, 11 from Indonesia, six from the UK, four Germans, four Belgians, three from the Philippines and one Canadian. More nationalities have yet to be counted.

:(
So many lost lives :( According to a friend of mine who is a pilot himself, many Belgians got on a Qantas flight which is why there weren't many Belgian fatalities.

[buttons]

So many lost lives :( According to a friend of mine who is a pilot himself, many Belgians got on a Qantas flight which is why there weren't many Belgian fatalities.
there's also this: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/ukraine/10975021/Couple-missed-Malaysia-Airlines-flight-that-crashed-because-of-lack-of-seats.html

i absolutely hate being late for things but i guess it can be a blessing in disguise. then again, a few of the mh370's passengers were supposed to get earlier flights but ended up on the one that disappeared later.

[GommeInc]

there's also this: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/ukraine/10975021/Couple-missed-Malaysia-Airlines-flight-that-crashed-because-of-lack-of-seats.html

i absolutely hate being late for things but i guess it can be a blessing in disguise. then again, a few of the mh370's passengers were supposed to get earlier flights but ended up on the one that disappeared later.
Yeah it's a mixed reaction really. Loads on this flight were probably transferred onto it because previous flights were booked e.g. the Qantas flight and this was the only one available. Others who were late had their seats given away. I hate to use the words luck or fate but missing this flight would make you very grateful if you're OCD over punctuality.

[WoodyLFC.2k7]

Yea, I've been thinking that too! but why would other countries want to get involved in the conflict.

Because citizens of other countries have been killed seems a fairly good excuse..
Also - It's effectively a war crime..
+ countries like war. =[

[Woutou]

Why would they fly over a war zone tho.. they got shotdown in the area the rebels controlled

[xxMATTGxx]

Why would they fly over a war zone tho.. they got shotdown in the area the rebels controlled

The same reason they fly over Iraq and Afghanistan

[Michael]

Pro-Russian rebels discuss the shooting down of the Malaysian Airlines airliner


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VnuHxAR01Jo

[GommeInc]

The same reason they fly over Iraq and Afghanistan
In his defence he has a point. If it were rebels who shot down the plane, they probably lack the technology to discriminate against Ukraine/Russian planes from innocent, civilian planes so there is a greater risk.

[Woutou]

Yea I know but they could of at least been warned about the conflict in the area...

[xxMATTGxx]

In his defence he has a point. If it were rebels who shot down the plane, they probably lack the technology to discriminate against Ukraine/Russian planes from innocent, civilian planes so there is a greater risk.

I don't think anyone knew they could shoot anything above 32,000 feet which is what the impression I am getting. Anything that high up is normally considered safe - Mainly because it would normally be the actual armed forces of either country that has the weapons to be able to shoot anything higher than FL320. It was deemed as a safe route by ICAO.

Although we don't know who did it for sure, if it was the rebels like what it's being reported mainly then it looks like that airspace will be closed for a while.


Yea I know but they could of at least been warned about the conflict in the area...

There has been warnings via NOTAMs - Especially by the FAA to US airlines. I'm sure each airline is very well aware of the situation going on in that area but it is not the airlines fault that this has taken place.

[wixard]

I don't think anyone knew they could shoot anything above 32,000 feet which is what the impression I am getting. Anything that high up is normally considered safe - Mainly because it would normally be the actual armed forces of either country that has the weapons to be able to shoot anything higher than FL320. It was deemed as a safe route by ICAO.

Although we don't know who did it for sure, if it was the rebels like what it's being reported mainly then it looks like that airspace will be closed for a while.



There has been warnings via NOTAMs - Especially by the FAA to US airlines. I'm sure each airline is very well aware of the situation going on in that area but it is not the airlines fault that this has taken place.

i was watching the abc news stream with the freelance journalist and a guy on there said that they can shoot up to 72 thousand feet?

oh okay i failed to read the rest of your post. will be interesting to see how this plays out

[GommeInc]

I don't think anyone knew they could shoot anything above 32,000 feet which is what the impression I am getting. Anything that high up is normally considered safe - Mainly because it would normally be the actual armed forces of either country that has the weapons to be able to shoot anything higher than FL320. It was deemed as a safe route by ICAO.

Although we don't know who did it for sure, if it was the rebels like what it's being reported mainly then it looks like that airspace will be closed for a while.
Indeed, I'm just saying that to many they won't really understand just how high these planes are and how they aren't at risk per sé. Thousands have flown through this airspace yet no incidents had occurred :P

It does make me wonder if the army bases which were taken over a while ago may have some weaponry missing from their inventory. It's completely inexcusable and isn't going to do either side any justice for doing this, especially an airliner going through enough problems carrying nationals from countries which have little to do with either side of the conflicts. But that's assuming it was the action of the rebels :/

[FlyingJesus]

This is what happens when big powers arm up bands of untrained rebels who can't tell the difference between 2 planes, but unfortunately Putin's already addressed that by saying that if it was rebels using Russian technology then it's still Ukraine's fault because it happened on their soil... utterly ridiculous and no-one's going to accept accountability by the looks of it. RIP to the victims

[xxMATTGxx]

i was watching the abc news stream with the freelance journalist and a guy on there said that they can shoot up to 72 thousand feet?

oh okay i failed to read the rest of your post. will be interesting to see how this plays out

No worries :P


Indeed, I'm just saying that to many they won't really understand just how high these planes are and how they aren't at risk per sé. Thousands have flown through this airspace yet no incidents had occurred :P

It does make me wonder if the army bases which were taken over a while ago may have some weaponry missing from their inventory. It's completely inexcusable and isn't going to do either side any justice for doing this, especially an airliner going through enough problems carrying nationals from countries which have little to do with either side of the conflicts. But that's assuming it was the action of the rebels :/

Yep, been flying through it months by the worlds most major airlines and nothing has happened since today. Just goes to show really

[Matt]

I honestly can't believe the circumstances surrounding this. Why would they fire a missile eugh.

It's really quite scary considering we are flying a very similar route in January and two family friends were meant to be arriving back today from England. We aren't sure if they were on that plane yet.

RIP to everyone and thoughts go out to everyone involved.

[Bloop]

horrific �� my twitter was exploding over this
sigh dont mas check the route? i mean mas could take a different route and not fly over a country currently caught in a civil war?
mas was not in a very good shape even before mh370, and now this. think its gonna close down soon
#RIPMH17

[Drew]

This is absolutely horrible, and to think that I just flew from Malaysia a few days ago... Flying back to Australia again tomorrow, so this news has made me extra nervous about it. Never been afraid of flying, but I'm not so sure anymore :(

RIP to the victims.

PS. Wispur; Have a safe flight!

[-Moniquee.]

This has really hit home with me, I'm quite emotional for the families and friends.
I only arrived home from Europe a few weeks ago because I had to cut my trip shorter due to illness, however, this could have well been me on that plane.
27 Australians that would of arrived home today to see their loved ones and it will never happen :(.
Very sad news.
Thoughts and prayers with the families.

[Matt]

Everyone has been pretty emotional because of this. I know the WA Premier came out and announced the people from Perth/WA that are believed to have been on the flight and Julie Bishop has scheduled a meeting with the Russian Ambassador for this afternoon so it'll be interesting to see how that unfolds. The fact that this is the second biggest overseas disaster involving Aussies since the Bali bombings also has quite a big effect back here in Australia.

It really does hit home.

[xxMATTGxx]

@Independent: The same family that lost two members on flight MH370 have lost two more on MH17 http://t.co/R5dDCJjVyF http://t.co/kNR1o8hY5H

That's some bad luck there for sure :/

[-Moniquee.]

There was an Australian grandfather who took his 3 grandchildren for a holiday. All are gone :( rip.

[buttons]

@Independent: The same family that lost two members on flight MH370 have lost two more on MH17 http://t.co/R5dDCJjVyF http://t.co/kNR1o8hY5H

That's some bad luck there for sure :/
i was waiting for this jesus. it's the relatives of the australian couple rodney and mary who were quite publicised.
around 100 of the passengers were flying to Australia for an aids conference i believe

[Matt]

i was waiting for this jesus. it's the relatives of the australian couple rodney and mary who were quite publicised.
around 100 of the passengers were flying to Australia for an aids conference i believe

Yeah this is from the Business Insider:

"According to The Australian, it is believed that 108 of the passengers onboard were expected in Melbourne (where the conference was being held). Dr. Joep Lange, a leading AIDS researcher from the Netherlands, was reportedly onboard according to the Daily Mail. His death was not yet confirmed, but many took to Twitter to express condolences. Glen Raymond Thomas, a spokesman for the World Health Organisation based in Geneva, was also reportedly onboard."

More than one-third of the passengers were getting a connecting flight to Melbourne.

> http://www.businessinsider.com.au/aids-conference-passengers-malaysia-2014-7

[karter]

@Independent: The same family that lost two members on flight MH370 have lost two more on MH17 http://t.co/R5dDCJjVyF http://t.co/kNR1o8hY5H

That's some bad luck there for sure :/

this is terrible oh my god

[-:Undertaker:-]

A very very graphic video from the crash site can be found below via the link (graphic content site), be warned before watching.

EDIT: Infact, I will remove the video as i'm not even sure the site is within forum rules. PM me if you wish to watch and I shall link you.

[buttons]

yh there's a mayalsian woman who lost her steward hubby on mh370 then had his child a few months after it went missing, now friends of hers have died in mh17 (she was also a steward so that's how she knew them)

plus a steward who was on mh17 wasn't supposed to be, he changed with another steward at last minute & his wife was supposed to be on mh370 but changed with someone last minute too

EUGH please?? what's is peoples deal with wanting to look at dead bodies and share them for people to see?! "Oo dead bodies, must show hxf"

[-:Undertaker:-]

EUGH please?? what's is peoples deal with wanting to look at dead bodies and share them for people to see?! "Oo dead bodies, must show hxf"

You'll never get the feel for an event if you watch watered down news footage, it's the same with war: anybody wanting to declare war or considering war should at least first watch raw footage from a conflict.... it brings what you are talking about home to you in a shocking way.

[buttons]

no it brings it more to home when u read about them as PEOPLE, rather than as dead bodies. i know how tragic it is by reading about their normal lives before the war they were caught up in, not by looking at their mutilated bodies. but w.e does it for you.

[Stephen]

dunno why but if it was local people who died then I wouldn't be too bothered about video footage etc i dunno why
but the fact that these are just random people going on holiday people like US on this forum who don't have to worry about **** like that

Hell I watch some sick stuff on the internet sometimes but even that's just too sick for a even a sick mind

[Unikitty]

It really sad:(

[xxMATTGxx]

I've seen the unedited images of the bodies, including a child and also a video. I didn't go specifically looking for them but came across them while reading about the crash on various sites. It's not something I'm looking for on purpose so I wouldn't personally class myself "sick" - But I do agree that it does show you what has actually happened a lot more and it did hit me pretty hard.

I hope one day the people who did this are found and are punished for their actions but due to the location and the fight between Ukraine and Russia my hope for that is very little.

[.red-bleu.]

One of the passengers was a friend of my brother. .. It s awfull

[.red-bleu.]

He had send a selfie in the plane just before take off

[-Moniquee.]

I'm so horrified that people are stealing belongings of the victims. Apparently there is NO money in any of the wallets left. Dutch banks have reported fraudulent transactions going through on the victims cards. Some of the separatists were seen to be wearing new watches today believed to be stolen. So disgusting. Seeing the bodies on the side of the road in body bags in 34 degree heat is horrible. I can't even comprehend how the families are coping with this.

[xxMATTGxx]

Was reading this on reddit and someone asked what it would have been like for the passengers and someone replied with a detailed reply:


Extremely loud explosion. Many knocked unconscious or killed outright by the pressure wave and shrapnel. Screaming. Sounds of aluminum tearing away from itself. The scream of the engines still thrusting on detached, fragmenting wings. An all powerful rush of air, thrusting people into 500 mph winds, shattering bones, popping eardrums, stripping away clothes and possessions. Mercifully, the low air pressure at altitude probably meant that any survivors were unconscious when they returned to Earth.

[nvrspk4]

There's a dude who's a cyclist for a Malaysian team who was supposed to be on *both* flights but switched flights both times. And he's flying to Malaysia later this week...

Also they say that since the separatists have the black box, it's highly unlikely they'll be able to determine what happened.

[FlyingJesus]

Supposedly they've agreed to hand over what they think is the black box since as you say none of them have a clue how to work it - just like they don't know how to properly use the rocket technology that Russia gave them to identify the right targets. Putin in response to this has moved troops right up to the border and given the rebels more weaponry, lovely chap

[xxMATTGxx]

There's a dude who's a cyclist for a Malaysian team who was supposed to be on *both* flights but switched flights both times. And he's flying to Malaysia later this week...

Also they say that since the separatists have the black box, it's highly unlikely they'll be able to determine what happened.

The black boxes will give us a confirmation of some sort that there wasn't a failure of the aircraft but was actually shot down. Although I think the majority of the users on here and the world know for sure that it was shot down. The investigation teams still need them regardless.


Supposedly they've agreed to hand over what they think is the black box since as you say none of them have a clue how to work it - just like they don't know how to properly use the rocket technology that Russia gave them to identify the right targets. Putin in response to this has moved troops right up to the border and given the rebels more weaponry, lovely chap

They are reporting that they used a Buk-M1 - If so, then it's not accurate or modern enough to determine what is a passenger aircraft and what is a military aircraft. Still shouldn't have happened though. Good old Russia.

[Danny]

Proper military troops are trained to recognise the differences between civillian aircraft and military aircraft, however the rebels are not properly trained and any kind of weaponary in their hands is dangerous. I'm reading alot of reports about these rebels threatening officials trying to get to the site, and also stopping the train(s)? with bodies onboard being moved to the appropriate places. In my eyes, this reeks of guilt (as in they are the guilty party, obviously not them showing guilt) and shows no remorse. Apparently even Putin has made half-hearted please to these rebels and they still won't listen.

[Matt]

US SECRETARY of State John Kerry has accused the pro- Russian rebels of “unceremoniously piling bodies into trucks, removing both bodies, as well as evidence, from the site’’ He slammed the “grotesque’’ manner in which bodies were being placed in a refrigerated rail carriages bound for a rebel-held city, by“drunken separatist soldiers’’ .

Things are just getting worse! I can only imagine what the families of those who died could be going through. It's bad enough hearing their loved ones have been killed in a crash but for the rescue efforts to be so 'all over the place' and new reports coming out everyday, the pain must be unbearable :(

I know there is a state memorial service for those who died from Western Australia being planned within the coming days after a national day of mourning is determined for Australia.

Full Article: http://www.perthnow.com.au/news/mh17-rebels-reportedly-move-bodies-of-crash-victims-into-refrigerated-rail-carriages-as-australian-toll-rises-to-37/story-fniztvnf-1226994936490

[GommeInc]

It's an absolute shambles. There does appear to be guilt in the pro-Russian side as they seem completely against assisting the salvage operations and making things worse. If Europe just went all out and shot them all I wouldn't particularly blame them - the self-proclaimed PM of Donetsk has a face you just want to shoot until you run out of bullets :/

[-:Undertaker:-]

On the Russian/foreign policy angle, people should beware pointing the finger just yet. It's more complex than Russia vs America.

http://www.mediaite.com/tv/ron-paul-if-mh17-missile-was-russian-so-what-isis-has-u-s-weapons/


http://static01.mediaite.com/med/wp-content/uploads/2012/09/ron_paul.jpg


While both the Ukrainian and Russian governments continue to point fingers at one another for the MH17 crash, former Congressman Ron Paul (R-TX) urged caution Friday against jumping to any conclusions about where blame lies.

Some American pundits accuse Vladimir Putin of having “blood on his hands” since the missile that took down the Malaysia Airlines flight may have been a Russian weapon given to pro-Russian separatists in Ukraine.

Speaking with Newsmax TV’s John Bachman earlier today, Paul said “Putin is a little bit smarter than that. I don’t think he would ever come close to participating in an act like this.”

“At the same time, there have been these new sanctions from the White House,” Bachman replied. “And there have been a lot of fingers pointed in Putin’s direction for not directly being involved but being complicit with the fact that some of these weapons — he might turn his back to it — but they’re Russian weapons.”

Paul’s response: “That may well be true, but guess what? ISIS has a lot of American weapons. We send weapons into Syria to help the rebels and if al Qaeda ends up getting it, it doesn’t mean our American government and Obama deliberately wanted ISIS to get American weapons.”

....


There's a dude who's a cyclist for a Malaysian team who was supposed to be on *both* flights but switched flights both times. And he's flying to Malaysia later this week...

After two close calls like that, it's safe to say I would be giving up flying forever.

Talk about the Grim Reaper over your shoulder.

[FlyingJesus]

So don't blame Russia for something that's their fault because someone else had done it elsewhere in a completely unrelated incident what kind of logic is this

[The Don]

So don't blame Russia for something that's their fault because someone else had done it elsewhere in a completely unrelated incident what kind of logic is this

Dan logic

[xxMATTGxx]

The train carrying 280 of the bodies is now on the move. Destination currently unknown. The black boxes from the aircrsft is also being handed over to the Malaysian authorities

[-:Undertaker:-]

So don't blame Russia for something that's their fault because someone else had done it elsewhere in a completely unrelated incident what kind of logic is this

Nobody knows who it was.

The blame is being placed on Russian separtarist forces - not Russia itself. Whilst those forces may be indirectly under Russian control and supplied by Russia (all of which is understandable and nothing out of the ordinary) it's also likely that this was simply a rogue commander or soldier who fired.

The motivation for Russia to fire down a passenger jet? None.

The motivation for western powers to blame Russia for this? Many.

I watched just before on Sky News for example a reporter say that President Putin is now viewed as the international bogeyman. Sorry, but by whom? By EU member states such as the UK, France and Germany who are idiotically attempting to wrestle the Ukraine out of Russian influence and the Russian power sphere? By the United States which is determined to keep Russia at bay and which has stupidy and recklessly encroached into former Soviet territory since the fall of the Berlin Wall?

[FlyingJesus]

No-one thinks Russia shot it down, the issue with them is that they supplied untrained rebels with weaponry they weren't able to properly use and then refused to take responsibility. There's no motivation for ANYONE to shoot down a passenger plane, it's pretty much confirmed by early/intercepted messages and satellites that it was a mistaken attack meant to be aimed at a military aid craft. As usual you've come into a thread with a specific subject and tried to talk about Islamic radicals

[-:Undertaker:-]

No-one thinks Russia shot it down, the issue with them is that they supplied untrained rebels with weaponry they weren't able to properly use and then refused to take responsibility. There's no motivation for ANYONE to shoot down a passenger plane, it's pretty much confirmed by early/intercepted messages and satellites that it was a mistaken attack meant to be aimed at a military aid craft.

So it was a mistake made by the separatists.

Now what has that got to do with President Putin exactly? By the coverage you'd think Russian Federation forces had shot it down on purpose.


As usual you've come into a thread with a specific subject and tried to talk about Islamic radicals

I haven't mentioned Islamic rebels.

[The Don]

Dan I really do think you're being contrary for the sake of it.

[FlyingJesus]

So it was a mistake made by the separatists.

Now what has that got to do with President Putin exactly? By the coverage you'd think Russian Federation forces had shot it down on purpose.

Are you somehow unaware that Putin's supplying these people? If I break into someone's house with a chap who hates the resident and give my accomplice a gun, I can't then say "well it happened in your house so it's your fault" to the resident who gets shot


I haven't mentioned Islamic rebels.


Paul’s response: “That may well be true, but guess what? ISIS has a lot of American weapons. We send weapons into Syria to help the rebels and if al Qaeda ends up getting it, it doesn’t mean our American government and Obama deliberately wanted ISIS to get American weapons.”

Haven't you

[karter]

I really haven't seen any evidence of missile shooting the plane down? Not doubting it but is this a conclusion based on witnesses or what

[xxMATTGxx]

I really haven't seen any evidence of missile shooting the plane down? Not doubting it but is this a conclusion based on witnesses or what

How do you think it's crashed the way it did then? :P

An important point:

491250738840875009

[.red-bleu.]

Not sure if posted before but this is what one of the victis posted on facebook

Which means; If it should disappear, this is what it look likes.

http://www.kualalumpurpost.net/wp-content/uploads/2014/07/Cor-Pan.png

I m glad the bodies will be transported to the netherlands

[xxMATTGxx]

Not sure if posted before but this is what one of the victis posted on facebook

Which means; If it should disappear, this is what it look likes.

http://www.kualalumpurpost.net/wp-content/uploads/2014/07/Cor-Pan.png

I m glad the bodies will be transported to the netherlands

There is also a photo out there of a mother and their child taking a selfie on the aircraft before it was shot down. Just so sad how many lives have been lost due to this.

[xxMATTGxx]

Latest on the black boxes:


Balliauw, Reporter at VRT, Brussels
Tweets: BREAKING: Belgian Air Force plane flies to #Kiev to pick up black boxes #MH17. They will be flown to London for further investigation.


15:15:
A lab in the UK will receive the jet's flight recorders, Malaysian deputy transport minister Aziz Kaprawi has told Reuters. "The procedure is to have the black boxes sent to the nearest lab that is authorised by the ICAO [ International Civil Aviation Organisation] for analysis," he said.



David Cameron, UK Prime Minister
Tweets: We've agreed Dutch request for air accident investigators at Farnborough to retrieve data from #MH17 black boxes for international analysis.

While this won't tell us who shot it down 100% - It will be nice to see what data (if any is still left) has been collected on the recorders.

Source: BBC News

[karter]

How do you think it's crashed the way it did then? :P

An important point:

491250738840875009

I don't know...technical failure...midair explosion? Like...was there something unique about the trajectory of the crash or something which could prove it was shot down? Don't get it.

[xxMATTGxx]

I don't know...technical failure...midair explosion? Like...was there something unique about the trajectory of the crash or something which could prove it was shot down? Don't get it.

There will be evidence on any of the remaining parts of the aircraft that would show a missile has hit. To be honest, they'll also be checking the bodies as well for similar evidence.

The USA, Russia and any other countries will have evidence that it was shot down as well.

[xxMATTGxx]

Just came across a person who has been taking a lot of photos of the wreckage. The following photos show what is left of the cockpit area:

https://secure.flickr.com/photos/jeroenakkermans/14717505025/in/set-72157645853477595/lightbox/
https://www.flickr.com/photos/jeroenakkermans/14715119834/in/photostream/lightbox/
https://secure.flickr.com/photos/jeroenakkermans/14737377433/in/set-72157645853477595/lightbox/

He seems to have many photos uploaded and I haven't gone through them all but if you want to check them out then you can do by going to: https://secure.flickr.com/photos/jeroenakkermans/

[Stephen]

poor dead parrot :(

[lemons]

watching them carry all the coffins from the plane in holland on bbc news :(

[xxMATTGxx]

watching them carry all the coffins from the plane in holland on bbc news :(

Very upsetting for sure - Watched some of it while I was in work. For anyone who wants to see a small clip of it then they can do at the top of this article:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-28431943

[xxMATTGxx]

I think these two images pretty much sums up what took place this afternoon.

http://s4.reutersmedia.net/resources/r/?m=02&d=20140723&t=2&i=942544954&w=&fh=&fw=&ll=700&pl=390&r=2014-07-23T191004Z_7_GM1EA7O060W01_RTRMADP_0_UKRAINE-CRISIS-NETHERLANDS

http://s4.reutersmedia.net/resources/r/?m=02&d=20140723&t=2&i=942544947&w=&fh=&fw=&ll=700&pl=390&r=2014-07-23T191004Z_7_LR1EA7N186I7R_RTRMADP_0_UKRAINE-CRISIS-NETHERLANDS

[.red-bleu.]

Hope at least the Netherlands will boycot WC2014 if russia was involved


There is also a photo out there of a mother and their child taking a selfie on the aircraft before it was shot down. Just so sad how many lives have been lost due to this.
Yh that guy was a friend of my brother

[God]

Well, this could possibly just be the missing Malaysia airplane from a couple of months ago. A very well played out False Flag???

[FlyingJesus]

I knew that when I clicked this with a response from Dragga it would be him talking about the false flag conspiracy theory which claims that MH370 was hijacked by American forces and taken to a military base before somehow managing to sneak it into Holland and doing nothing with it for a while until deciding the time was right to float up under the flight name MH17 and smash it into Ukraine as a way to start a war with Russia that no-one wants, completely ignoring the human beings that are dead from both flights and all of their friends and families and (as is usually ignored by him) every atom of logic in the universe

[buttons]

Well, this could possibly just be the missing Malaysia airplane from a couple of months ago. A very well played out False Flag???

*REMOVED* so where are the 100's of men, women and children from flight mh17? did they all go into hiding from their friends and family so as to help out the government? or did the government fly their plane away to some random place for them to never be found again? it doesn't even make sense for it to be mh370, why would they steal the mh370 and crash it in a few months under the disguise as a new plane and other people? do u think 500 people's lives are just as easily manipulated as that?
*REMOVED* it is harmless to the thousands of people out there who have lost family and friends on both flights and who have to read **** about how their relatives aren't even dead or are missing or been killed for the sake of the government. u r now forever in my '*REMOVED* person' list.


Edited by mdport. (Trialist Forum Moderator): Please do not be rude to other members and avoid the forum filter.

[xxMATTGxx]

Well, this could possibly just be the missing Malaysia airplane from a couple of months ago. A very well played out False Flag???

You've only just come back and I have had enough of your **** already. It's IMPOSSIBLE for MH370 to fly around the world without anyone even noticing.

[IzzyUhh]

Oh my god youre insensitive

One thing that really made me think was disrespectful was people looting from the bodies. Also I saw on like BBC that they had pulled out bodies and just left them on the roadside. The reporter said that the smell was terrible because of how long the bodies were stranded and because of the heat :(

[Absently]

Oh my god youre insensitive

One thing that really made me think was disrespectful was people looting from the bodies. Also I saw on like BBC that they had pulled out bodies and just left them on the roadside. The reporter said that the smell was terrible because of how long the bodies were stranded and because of the heat :(
Omg that's so awful :(

[God]

*REMOVED* so where are the 100's of men, women and children from flight mh17? did they all go into hiding from their friends and family so as to help out the government? or did the government fly their plane away to some random place for them to never be found again? it doesn't even make sense for it to be mh370, why would they steal the mh370 and crash it in a few months under the disguise as a new plane and other people? do u think 500 people's lives are just as easily manipulated as that?
*REMOVED* it is harmless to the thousands of people out there who have lost family and friends on both flights and who have to read **** about how their relatives aren't even dead or are missing or been killed for the sake of the government. u r now forever in my '*REMOVED* person' list.


Edited by mdport. (Trialist Forum Moderator): Please do not be rude to other members and avoid the forum filter.



#1, CONGRATES MATT ON MOD!!!!! GL MA BOIIIII

#2, you clearly haven't looked at the world as how it is. Remember war is money??? the powers to be don't truly care, if you look at 9/11, that there is a prime example of a false flag. To scare the people into losing more of their rights, and also to get the approval of the people to go to war. War is money. (I shouldn't even say money, Currency is what our system is right now. Money is things that can't inflate and hold their cost, like gold.)

I

[FlyingJesus]

Well done on parroting a load of conspiracy theory clichés (missed out OPEN YOUR EYES and COINCIDENCE!??!?!?) but there's still no way it could actually have been done

[buttons]

#1, CONGRATES MATT ON MOD!!!!! GL MA BOIIIII

#2, you clearly haven't looked at the world as how it is. Remember war is money??? the powers to be don't truly care, if you look at 9/11, that there is a prime example of a false flag. To scare the people into losing more of their rights, and also to get the approval of the people to go to war. War is money. (I shouldn't even say money, Currency is what our system is right now. Money is things that can't inflate and hold their cost, like gold.)

I
well can u just answer this for me?

mh370 were mostly asian. mh17 are mostly white. if the mh370 passengers are those who truly crashed in ukraine, then why is it white bodies at the crash site? why is it white bodies being flown back to their families? you really think it's the mh370 passengers? go ask the families of the dutch who will be receiving their deceased family member and their belongings. you haven't answered anything ive said but just simply stated it's a conspiracy when there's no evidence there is and the truth is in front of your eyes at that crash site.

a plane flew into a war zone, it got shot down, someone admitted they had downed the plane. **** happens. simple. not everything is a conspiracy. the government aren't all ****** up. it's malaysian planes going missing so if it's all for the sake of war, why would malaysia be trying to start a war with russia????

please answer the actual questions rather than 'it's a conspiracy' and i may be able to see why you could think that.

[xxMATTGxx]

#1, CONGRATES MATT ON MOD!!!!! GL MA BOIIIII

#2, you clearly haven't looked at the world as how it is. Remember war is money??? the powers to be don't truly care, if you look at 9/11, that there is a prime example of a false flag. To scare the people into losing more of their rights, and also to get the approval of the people to go to war. War is money. (I shouldn't even say money, Currency is what our system is right now. Money is things that can't inflate and hold their cost, like gold.)

I

Tyler, please. Look into what you are actually posting. As I have said, it is IMPOSSIBLE for the missing aircraft that was flying flight MH370 to somehow fly around the world and end up doing a European flight and end up crashing into Ukraine after being shot down.

Get that into your head.

[buttons]

Tyler, please. Look into what you are actually posting. As I have said, it is IMPOSSIBLE for the missing aircraft that was flying flight MH370 to somehow fly around the world and end up doing a European flight and end up crashing into Ukraine after being shot down.

Get that into your head.
i think he thinks mh17 was flown away elsewhere and mh370 was flown away from wherever it's been hidden so it could be shot down by the government in order to start a war, despite the fact mh17 was not diverted and disappeared from radar when the plane was shot down. we're not going to get any sort of evidence based answer or theory here, he just says things then doesn't even try to back them up. disgusting to place his paranoia on two tragic events.

[Stephen]

cant you just ban dragga

surely him being here is breaking a dozen hxf rules


Edited by mdport. (Trialist Forum Moderator): Please do not post off topic!

[le harry]

#2, you clearly haven't looked at the world as how it is. Remember war is money??? the powers to be don't truly care, if you look at 9/11, that there is a prime example of a false flag. To scare the people into losing more of their rights, and also to get the approval of the people to go to war. War is money. (I shouldn't even say money, Currency is what our system is right now. Money is things that can't inflate and hold their cost, like gold.)

I

lmao you are dense as ****

[Narnat,]

It'a a shame seeing all of this news especially so soon after there was contact lost previously with a plane not that long ago, it's horrible seeing all of the press reports and the families.

[God]

Love how the videos the Ukraine Gov't used to blame Russia were uploaded way before the actual crash....

[xxMATTGxx]

Love how the videos the Ukraine Gov't used to blame Russia were uploaded way before the actual crash....

Feel free to share these videos.

[FlyingJesus]

Dragga you are literally the only person stupid enough to believe that a flight could be hijacked, landed, moved hundreds of miles INTO AN AIRPORT and flown out again with a load of pre-dead bodies on board all the while, and then alongside that believe in Russian media edits

[Stephen]

the bad thing is that im not sure if he's trolling or not

maybe he's just one of them conspiracy weirdos who will eventually end up in a psych hospital screaming the germans are invading or something