you're doing it again

[scottish]

you're giving out awards for buying the new VIP, when you've already said multiple times you want to phase out the awards.

give achievements or give up on achievements and remove them.

[Nick]

I will request new achievements to be made then added to the achievements!!!! Completely forgot about it (a)(a)(a)

[scottish]

also stop making multicoloured VIP, it's ugly

[xxMATTGxx]

also stop making multicoloured VIP, it's ugly

It's not always about you Scott and considering a lot of people bought it last year - It seems people did in fact like it.

[David]

still waiting on my 10th birthday winner award/achievement/both @Nick (http://www.habboxforum.com/member.php?u=75119);
is there a link to achievements on any of the nav menus i cant see one?

[Nick]

still waiting on my 10th birthday winner award/achievement/both @Nick (http://www.habboxforum.com/member.php?u=75119);
is there a link to achievements on any of the nav menus i cant see one?

Thats been uploaded but still needs to be added onto the achievements itself which will be done!!!

[xxMATTGxx]

still waiting on my 10th birthday winner award/achievement/both @Nick (http://www.habboxforum.com/member.php?u=75119);
is there a link to achievements on any of the nav menus i cant see one?

Should be - Depends on what skin you are using most likely. But it's located here: http://www.habboxforum.com/vbactivity.php

[David]

using the summer skin ofc what else :¬:

[-Nick]

Can the VIP not be on sale for longer and over hxss?

[Nick]

Can the VIP not be on sale for longer and over hxss?

If anything i'd rather have got a new colour vip to sell longer over hxss

[FlyingJesus]

The summer one looks like easter and the heatwave one looks like vomit so yeah different one for HxSS would be better :P but I agree there's no point having both awards and achievements, never saw anything wrong with awards in the first place and unless achievements is implemented the way it was actually agreed on then it remains pointless

[Kyle]

can we have an orange and blue one

[Phil]

can we have an orange and blue one

You mean like the birthday one?

[Kyle]

You mean like the birthday one?
oh was it nvm

[Inseriousity.]

I don't think I've liked any of the multicoloured VIPs lol but they're not really aimed at me anyway as I'd never be able to buy it.
I think awards are pointless, it's just there and there's no real urgency to collect them. Atm, achievements are pointless, it's just there and there's no real urgency to collect them, which is a damn shame considering it had so much potential.

Unlike the awards system, which practically runs itself with manual input from 1-2 people, the achievements system is spread out across Habbox and involves a bucketload of admin, which would be one of those disadvantages that would be worthwhile if it wasn't just a carbon copy of the awards system. If general management are stubbornly refusing to keep it as it is then it is probably better in the long run to just ditch it and return to the awards system.

[Yawn]

It's not always about you Scott and considering a lot of people bought it last year - It seems people did in fact like it.

Ooer

[nvrspk4]

I was wondering about that - are the X years achievements still handed out? I noticed that you can no longer request the 9 year one

[GommeInc]

I was wondering about that - are the X years achievements still handed out? I noticed that you can no longer request the 9 year one
I had a message from Wispur a short while ago with my 15,000 achievement. I was quite shocked!

[Chris]

Unlike the awards system, which practically runs itself with manual input from 1-2 people, the achievements system is spread out across Habbox and involves a bucketload of admin, which would be one of those disadvantages that would be worthwhile if it wasn't just a carbon copy of the awards system. If general management are stubbornly refusing to keep it as it is then it is probably better in the long run to just ditch it and return to the awards system.

Unfortunately you are right. The achievements concept is a good idea on paper, but it's really not an easy one to introduce. This mainly comes down to the admin work that it creates, although the lack of attention I've been able to dedicate to it and the general lack of interest for the achievements hasn't really helped either.

Considering the current state of the system, it's likely that it will be removed. If this happens then we will simply continue using the awards system and will migrate some of the achievements that would be easy to manage with the awards system.

[Inseriousity.]

Yes it is very hard, I struggled with it too. I still think it'd be more worthwhile than the awards system if more time could be spent on developing it into its original concept.

[Chris]

Yes it is very hard, I struggled with it too. I still think it'd be more worthwhile than the awards system if more time could be spent on developing it into its original concept.

Perhaps, but I'm not willing to put any more time into it. As far as I'm concerned it's not a system thats suitable for a forum other than the automated achievements that come built into the system.

[Inseriousity.]

It was the automated achievements and dry, boring style of the achievements that killed it in the first place so I disagree with that. Creativity has never been your strongest skill. Despite that, you do at least deserve credit for putting time into it in the first place even if it does expose how uninvolved Sam is with her job.

[Chris]

It was the automated achievements and dry, boring style of the achievements that killed it in the first place so I disagree with that. Creativity has never been your strongest skill. Despite that, you do at least deserve credit for putting time into it in the first place even if it does expose how uninvolved Sam is with her job.

There is no other way of doing it as the plugin we have was only ever designed for the automated achievements that it includes.

Oh, and you can keep your backhanded comments to yourself. I can't help but laugh that you're trying to insult me and other managers that contributed to the system when all you ever did as AGM was sit there and criticise other peoples lack of creativity without ever offering any of your own.

[Inseriousity.]

I like to think I've demonstrated my own creativity enough over the years whereas you took this idea and immediately made it boring. For instance, it doesn't need a plugin to do it. Could've been organised without it.

[MKR&*42]

If a lot more time and effort had been put into a proper achievement system (much like the one actually described in the original feedback thread) instead of the rush mess we have now where you have awards/achievements/achievement awards, then it would have been an okay system. Once again a complete lack of morale and drive have ruined a half decent idea and hey itsactually an innovative one cause no other fansite does it but scrap being unique then

[Chris]

I like to think I've demonstrated my own creativity enough over the years whereas you took this idea and immediately made it boring. For instance, it doesn't need a plugin to do it. Could've been organised without it.

Well considering the amount of admin work that became necessary WITH the plugin, I really dread to think how much work would be required for it without a plugin. I'm sorry that you find the system boring, but it's impossible to conjure up a working system thats going to work on a forum. I don't work miracles I'm afraid.

If anyone here thinks they can do better then by all means come and build us a working achievements system.

[FlyingJesus]

Going into everything half baked seems to be the MO of general management of late so not entirely surprised that this (like so many good ideas from community members) was taken on only in part and not in a way that reflects the original idea at all

[Phil]

Just an input here. I much prefer the Awards system. Most people aren't really that bothered about collecting awards/achievements in the sense that I don't think that many strive to collect as many as they can to become like a Pokemon Master or somet idk, it's just a nice incentive. I'm pretty sure there's not one Achievement that couldn't just be an Award.

[Chris]

Going into everything half baked seems to be the MO of general management of late so not entirely surprised that this (like so many good ideas from community members) was taken on only in part and not in a way that reflects the original idea at all

I give up lol


Just an input here. I much prefer the Awards system. Most people aren't really that bothered about collecting awards/achievements in the sense that I don't think that many strive to collect as many as they can to become like a Pokemon Master or somet idk, it's just a nice incentive. I'm pretty sure there's not one Achievement that couldn't just be an Award.

There may be some issues with transferring some of them as they can be difficult to keep track of, but most should be good to go.

[Inseriousity.]

I think more people would be bothered if there was better incentive to do so. I think more people would be attracted to move over from Habbo into the forum and then expand into the wider community if the original idea had remained intact. There isn't one achievement that couldn't just be an award, that was the problem.

I will continue to work on it after I've finished hosting this creative event.

[Chris]

I think more people would be bothered if there was better incentive to do so. I think more people would be attracted to move over from Habbo into the forum and then expand into the wider community if the original idea had remained intact. There isn't one achievement that couldn't just be an award, that was the problem.

I will continue to work on it after I've finished hosting this creative event.

Theres not a lot we can offer without breaking the bank. I don't think you realise how difficult it is to do something so large, but if you want to waste your time coming up with a perfect system then be my guest. As far as I'm concerned the achievements system is dead and wont be coming back.

[Inseriousity.]

I know how difficult it is, I've wasted a lot of time on it already. Wasting any more won't hurt.
As for breaking the bank, in the first week as AGM, Jin was asking me whether we should host a 1000c quarterly competition and a win a throne a month competition. As I set up the Habbox Lottery 3-4 months after he asked me and stopped needing to ask him for money, I'm going to assume that he still has quite a lot stashed away. I don't think it would break the bank as much as those ideas he suggested if the appropriate safeguards were in place.

[FlyingJesus]

I give up lol

So we've noticed

[nvrspk4]

I agree that the awards system is better for whatever this is trying to accomplish. I don't really see a huge point in an achievements system at all...anyone have a link to the discussion where the idea began?

[xxMATTGxx]

I agree that the awards system is better for whatever this is trying to accomplish. I don't really see a huge point in an achievements system at all...anyone have a link to the discussion where the idea began?

I think the idea has been scattered in a number of threads but here's one I could find that gives some sort of idea what it was about. I guess you could use that post to find the thread and read anything related to it.


I envision the achievements system to work as follows:

- Habbox
- HxHD
- Competitions
- Events
- HxL
- Forum

Each category would have beginner, medium, hard tasks in each one (the Habbox category would include all the departments that don't have their own category). Single tasks would have small rewards like tokens but completing a set would get a bigger reward. You can give them funny names and it would get newbies more involved in the wider community and might be something fun for older members to complete too. Maybe some sort of 'completionist' forum userbar for those that complete the whole set that gets removed when new tasks are added. They would have terrible names that involve bad puns and would be more of an achievement than the current awards system.

[Inseriousity.]

First mentioned here: http://www.habboxforum.com/showthread.php?t=790483 (still waiting for that too)
Discussed more in-depth here: http://www.habboxforum.com/showthread.php?t=797030

[Lewis]

I much prefer the awards system anyway. Or compared to how they made the achievements system currently work anyway.

(I can't remember if I already replied to this thread. I might've oops)

[-Nick]

Well I hope all the rep which was given out will be taken away. Wispur;

[scottish]

Well I hope all the rep which was given out will be taken away. Wispur;

that's not going to happen lol

[Chris]

Well I hope all the rep which was given out will be taken away. Wispur;

What rep? :P

[-Nick]

What rep? :P

Tokens*

[Gina]

why would it be taken away lol
most ppl prob spent them anyway

and i prefer the awards system anyway

[Kyle]

I originally thought the achievements system could supplement awards, as a sort of side story to an already effective system. Obviously poor implementation and lack of any real hype means it has flopped and the transition hasn't been performed successfully. Delete it, remake it in the future. Focus on building the staff teams and in turn the userbase back up for now. Forum REALLY needs some work as of late.

[xxMATTGxx]

It was never really going to work out because there is far too much manual admin work to get it going. Automation is key in any sort of achievement system - That's why it works so well on games such as Habbo and Runescape - It's all automated.

The awards system is best designed for what we have here and at any other Habbo fansite. I honesty can't see us ever going back to using achievements.

[Inseriousity.]

The admin work could've been delegated more efficiently or some sort of weekly update. There are so many managers at Habbox it'd have been manageable.

[Chris]

The admin work could've been delegated more efficiently or some sort of weekly update. There are so many managers at Habbox it'd have been manageable.

Here are three reasons you are wrong:


Having too many people doing the admin work makes it confusing
Managers are busy enough as it is without the added workload
When a new manager is promoted they have to be taught everything about the system and how to use it


The achievements system is gone and it isn't coming back.

[Inseriousity.]

Here are three reasons you are wrong:

No it doesn't. It's all behind the scenes so it wouldn't be confusing for members and each manager would have tasks specific to their department so it wouldn't be confusing for them either.
No they're not.
Along with everything else they have to be taught. I'm hoping you'd hire someone competent enough to do admin related to the department they are actually in. And if they need a little bit extra coaching, I'd hope an AGM would be keeping an eye on them anyway.

[FlyingJesus]

Oh well wasn't really needed failed experiment let's move on to v7

[Phil]

Here are three things that support what Chris has said:

1. It does make it confusing and it won't all get done at the same time because of availability of managers and it's not always possible to get them done on a certain day because of point two.
2. Yes they are.
3. Along what with you have both said already. For it to be possible for all managers to do their own depts. Achievements Request, they would need access to the admin panel. With all the management changes it's not realistic to give access to every manager that comes through for the purpose of the system.

[Inseriousity.]

1. How does it make it confusing to have an AGM say "you do these", "you do these", "you do these", "you do these", "you do these." Here's your deadline: xth date.
2. No they're not.
3. Not if it was done another way. Features requests? A thread update in a forum where managers have mod perms, similar to the habbox lottery before it had to be scrapped? There could've been lots of ways to do it.

If the achievements system is gone that's fine. It was always going to be a challenge and you did not rise to it on this occasion but hopefully next time :).

[Chippiewill]

The achievements plugin was a bit clunky in the first place and all it offered was automated post count achievements. The other automated stuff it covers is already promoted in other places by tokens. For the system to have been successful it would have needed deeper integration (Automated token payouts for one, which is a three hour coding job from the degree I looked into it) and automation (adding more hooks for more interesting achievements which again is a fairly simple coding job).

[scottish]

Can one of the AGMs or something give us a general list of what managers have to do, you's always seem to think they do so much yet i've never seen anything of the sort

A typical manager will do what?


Look after their staff
Rarely open applications and get trialists
Request usergroup/removal of usergroup
Deal with complaints
Rarely deal with other departments (such as graphics requests)
Rarely work on a large scale event (hxhd quest, etc)


all of which is hardly time consuming or 'loads' to do.

fill it in more or quick saying they have so much to do.

[Chris]

The achievements plugin was a bit clunky in the first place and all it offered was automated post count achievements. The other automated stuff it covers is already promoted in other places by tokens. For the system to have been successful it would have needed deeper integration (Automated token payouts for one, which is a three hour coding job from the degree I looked into it) and automation (adding more hooks for more interesting achievements which again is a fairly simple coding job).

There you go Mike, you've heard it from the horses mouth! Now please give it a rest and stop trying to be a know it all. You had your chance to shine and do it your way when you were AGM, which is now long past.

[Inseriousity.]

Heard what from the horse's mouth? I do not agree that the system needed to be automated to be successful. In fact, I believe it would have been the manual tasks that would've set this apart from the awards system and gave it that unique quality to it that was sadly ignored.

Yes my time as AGM has long past. My point is that you still have your chance to shine and you're failing to do so.

[Chris]

Heard what from the horse's mouth? I do not agree that the system needed to be automated to be successful. In fact, I believe it would have been the manual tasks that would've set this apart from the awards system and gave it that unique quality to it that was sadly ignored.

Yes my time as AGM has long past. My point is that you still have your chance to shine and you're failing to do so.

Maybe it would have but nobody has the time for that sort of manual work. We tried it and it failed. I have nothing to prove, so it's time to move on.

[scottish]

If you don't have the time to do your job then I suggest you resign.

Same goes for any staff member, specifically AGM's+

[Chris]

If you don't have the time to do your job then I suggest you resign.

Same goes for any staff member, specifically AGM's+

You're far too intolerant Scott. You do seem to forget that we have things to do outside Habbox.

Anyway, the achievements system is not my job and I am not obliged to do it. It was merely a side project that I decided to take on because it was what people wanted to see.

[Inseriousity.]

You're right, it's not your job so what the hell has sam being doing!

[FlyingJesus]

Yeah but we're not allowed to criticise Sam because she's new/she does a lot behind the scenes/she's trying [delete as appropriate]

[Chris]

You're right, it's not your job so what the hell has sam being doing!

She's been busy with other events. I'm glad she didn't waste her time on the system anyway, it wouldn't have got her very far and all she would have received is even more criticism.

[Inseriousity.]

Such as?

[scottish]

You're far too intolerant Scott. You do seem to forget that we have things to do outside Habbox.

Anyway, the achievements system is not my job and I am not obliged to do it. It was merely a side project that I decided to take on because it was what people wanted to see.

like I said, if you don't have the time then resign.

Swear sams always doing something other than her job..

[Chris]

Such as?

Every tournament thats been held his year and some of the fansite events. She's currently away on holiday so you won't see much of her at the moment.


like I said, if you don't have the time then resign.

Swear sams always doing something other than her job..

And like I just said, it isn't my job. I'm not quite sure why you seem to think you have the right to go around telling people to resign.

[Absently]

like I said, if you don't have the time then resign.

Swear sams always doing something other than her job..

Nowadays it's highly unlikely you're going to find someone who can dedicate all their time to habbox :P

[FlyingJesus]

When is she not on holiday seriously

[Chippiewill]

Heard what from the horse's mouth? I do not agree that the system needed to be automated to be successful. In fact, I believe it would have been the manual tasks that would've set this apart from the awards system and gave it that unique quality to it that was sadly ignored.

Yes my time as AGM has long past. My point is that you still have your chance to shine and you're failing to do so.

Without automation we would end up with the same situation as now, users not caring enough about achievements to request them.

[xxMATTGxx]

If you don't have the time to do your job then I suggest you resign.

Same goes for any staff member, specifically AGM's+

May as well close Habbox then as everyone has lives.

- - - Updated - - -


Without automation we would end up with the same situation as now, users not caring enough about achievements to request them.

Exactly, automation is key.

[-Nick]

Here are three things that support what Chris has said:

1. It does make it confusing and it won't all get done at the same time because of availability of managers and it's not always possible to get them done on a certain day because of point two.
2. Yes they are.
3. Along what with you have both said already. For it to be possible for all managers to do their own depts. Achievements Request, they would need access to the admin panel. With all the management changes it's not realistic to give access to every manager that comes through for the purpose of the system.

If management are trusted to have access to the forum AdminCP , why are they management. What makes you more trust then Joe or Shonly? They have been in the role longer - exempt Joe however he was AGM.

- - - Updated - - -


The achievements plugin was a bit clunky in the first place and all it offered was automated post count achievements. The other automated stuff it covers is already promoted in other places by tokens. For the system to have been successful it would have needed deeper integration (Automated token payouts for one, which is a three hour coding job from the degree I looked into it) and automation (adding more hooks for more interesting achievements which again is a fairly simple coding job).


Why isnt this guy working here?

[Drew]

I agree with Chris, the added admin work would be too much for me :P

[Inseriousity.]

Without automation we would end up with the same situation as now, users not caring enough about achievements to request them.

No they didn't care about them because there was no incentive to care (oh and the idiotic decision to make them all retroactive). Changing the name 'awards' system to 'achievements' wouldn't automatically make them care about the awards in there, despite that they are also automated.

[Chris]

No they didn't care about them because there was no incentive to care (oh and the idiotic decision to make them all retroactive). Changing the name 'awards' system to 'achievements' wouldn't automatically make them care about the awards in there, despite that they are also automated.

No one will be interested unless we offer habbo credits. At the end of the day, we would gain NOTHING from the achievements system and we would only end up losing credits.

To be honest I don't think anyone really cares except you. It's getting a bit boring now.

[Inseriousity.]

Yes, Habbo credits, good idea. You would gain new members having a clear signpost about what Habbox has to offer as well as something to pitch and advertise to them to get them to sign up in the first place with rewards that means they'll stick around, you would give older members a challenge with rewards that means they'll stick at it, you would gain community cohesion if tasks involved groupwork and discussion, you would gain more exposure to those less-travelled places like the habbox wiki or articles.

I apologise if I'm boring you.

[Lewis]

Yes, Habbo credits, good idea. You would gain new members having a clear signpost about what Habbox has to offer as well as something to pitch and advertise to them to get them to sign up in the first place with rewards that means they'll stick around, you would give older members a challenge with rewards that means they'll stick at it, you would gain community cohesion if tasks involved groupwork and discussion, you would gain more exposure to those less-travelled places like the habbox wiki or articles.

I apologise if I'm boring you.

I agree with this even if it's only a very short amount of coins per achievement, it would certainly bring in new members.

[Lewis]

poor Drew; making all new achievement icons very shortly ago and now you're removing it!

[Chris]

poor Drew; making all new achievement icons very shortly ago and now you're removing it!

They will be used in the awards system.

[Sian]

Not that I want to get involved in this. But why wasnt matthew utilised? Being the features manager I bet he could have made a good go of it.

It's such a shame though, if it had turned out better, how it was originally intended, it woud have made us so different from other fansites.

And we're lacking a lot compared to other sites right now (but i wont go into that).

Thanks for trying though Chris, I don't think it was done right, and I don't see the problem in extra admin work (I do think management could complete extra stuff with the necessarily back up of forum management and the features management), but yeh, thanks.

[lemons]

it would be cool if we could display 1 or 2 of our fav award/badge things in our postbit or w/e its called!

[scottish]

no it wouldn't, would make it hideous

[nvrspk4]

It seems like the original idea which hews much more closely to Habbo's achievement system could have been better, but I'm curious to know what kind of teamwork tasks and graduated difficulty tasks could have been introduced that could have been easily tracked vs. Habbo's auto-tracking? Also what would make a system that rewarded in credits sustainable (and prevent against abuse from multiple accounts?) Seems like the idea was good but because it would be so difficult to implement the devil was in the details

[Inseriousity.]

'Singalong in the spam forum' (post a thread link), 'do a conga line with 5 people' (post a screenie). things like that for the teamwork/community tasks. I'll keep working on it cos 'the devil is in the detail' is true, it all depends on what the tasks are and building a system around them rather than building a system and forcing tasks into it. I think keeping it sustainable is by inserting tasks that means completing the sets are a work in progress and its not something you can do in 5 minutes. That'd involve not making it retroactive (excluding those tasks where it's unavoidable: the post count one for instance) and including tasks that are perhaps not a daily occurance (win SNQ, for instance. that's a weekly event).

[Phil]

If management are trusted to have access to the forum AdminCP , why are they management. What makes you more trust then Joe or Shonly? They have been in the role longer - exempt Joe however he was AGM.


Lol I'm barely trusted with it.

[FlyingJesus]

everyone has lives.

lmao


'Singalong in the spam forum' (post a thread link), 'do a conga line with 5 people' (post a screenie). things like that for the teamwork/community tasks.

Those sorts of things could be done as random events anyway, a big part of the reason awards and achievements aren't huge here is because most people don't really seem to care enough about having an extra icon on their profile to do anything more than just click the request button for things they'd have done regardless. Community building through "spontaneous" group activity doesn't require rigid systems :P

[Lewis]

It seems like the original idea which hews much more closely to Habbo's achievement system could have been better, but I'm curious to know what kind of teamwork tasks and graduated difficulty tasks could have been introduced that could have been easily tracked vs. Habbo's auto-tracking? Also what would make a system that rewarded in credits sustainable (and prevent against abuse from multiple accounts?) Seems like the idea was good but because it would be so difficult to implement the devil was in the details

Well to be able to earn credits ya could have to be a member for something like a week or two, with around 10-20 posts. That could help stop multiple accounts.

[Reality]

I myself do prefer the achievementd system. However, I feel that the awards that are given out should only be used for staff based or community based "achievements" for example quick quizzes, SoTM, Wiki Top Contributor (yes that still exists, with its 2 or so members).

On the other hand, as its proven throughout this thread if the interest in the system has been lost then its just another unique idea thrown on the scrap heap. In all honesty I think that there's a lot of potential for the achievements system; provding its easily accesable.
I know myself Ive had to route around a few threads to find the specific ones I needed - possibly make or put them into its own child forum or own parent.

The topic kinda sidetracked from the awards and onto achievements and other. But in all honesty I dont think there's any real need for a badge because you purchased VIP. Ok its a nice gesture for saying thank you, but people buy the VIP for the colours and style not the unseen badge on your profile until you bother to look.

I dont know I think badges should be used for community/staff based achievements as stated above and put more effort into the achievements system, get more management members on board to help fulfill its purpose?!

[David]

Lol I'm barely trusted with it.

what options do you have? list them?

[Kyle]

The topic kinda sidetracked from the awards and onto achievements and other. But in all honesty I dont think there's any real need for a badge because you purchased VIP. Ok its a nice gesture for saying thank you, but people buy the VIP for the colours and style not the unseen badge on your profile until you bother to look.
it shows in the future what campaigns people have been involved in in the past, when their vip runs out they still have a badge to commemorate it.

awards are viewable in forum postbit. I like looking at them, they're ccool.

[Hannah]

it shows in the future what campaigns people have been involved in in the past, when their vip runs out they still have a badge to commemorate it.

awards are viewable in forum postbit. I like looking at them, they're ccool.

I'm with Kyle, I like looking at the awards in the postbit.

[MKR&*42]

i third this^ theyre pretty cool to look at sometimes.

[FlyingJesus]

Didn't it used to say the number of awards in the postbit

[FlyingJesus]

Oops hope these auto merge but just wondering what these few awards are about:

Gold Winner
For winning a Habbox Event or Competition
Silver Winner
Winning an Event/Competition
Bronze Winner
For winning a Competition/Event

They all seem to be for winning even though it's gold/silver/bronze and it's not very specific about what you have to win like is it any old comp/event because that would mean just about everyone should have them prob

Well ok that didn't merge at all

[Inseriousity.]

When awards were introduced, I was competitions manager at the time and thought that having an award for every single event was OTT (we did one almost every month back then). I have changed my mind on it since then (much nicer for people to have their own special badge for the event they entered) but the gold/silver/bronze was winning 1st/2nd/3rd place in a big event done by the comps (or events dept but they were happy making their own so it essentially became just for comps).