John Lewis's new line of hijabs to wear at SCHOOL

[-:Undertaker:-]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2726390/John-Lewiss-new-line-hijabs-wear-school-Department-store-signs-contract-schools-London-Liverpool-offer-Conservative-Islamic-clothing.html
http://rt.com/uk/180816-uk-retailer-school-hijabs/
http://www.bathchronicle.co.uk/John-Lewis-stores-sell-hijab-schools-Bath-West/story-22758790-detail/story.html

John Lewis's new line of hijabs to wear at school


http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2014/08/16/article-2726390-208D922400000578-895_306x429.jpg


John Lewis is offering the hijab in its school uniform department for the first time.

The headdress is to be sold in the company’s stores in London and Liverpool after it signed contracts with two schools – one which was set up to educate Muslim girls and a second that welcomes pupils from all religious communities.

The hijab covers the head and chest and is worn by Muslim women after the onset of puberty as a sign of modesty in the presence of men who are outside their immediate family.

It is different from the niqab, which is a full face veil and has proved divisive in schools and public life, for example if wearers are giving evidence in court.

There has been controversy over whether it is right for girls attending state schools to wear religious dress rather than the standard uniform.

But the fact that a mainstream retailer is starting to stock the hijab alongside blazers and blouses is likely to be welcomed as a breakthrough by Muslim parents who have so far had to rely on specialist shops.

John Lewis has won the contract to supply uniforms to the Islamia Girls’ School in north-west London, which was established in 1983 by Yusuf Islam – known as the singer Cat Stevens until his conversion to Islam in 1977.

It is selling a white hijab for £9, alongside a teal blazer carrying the school badge, which costs £65, a long ankle-length grey skirt at £40, and other items.

John Lewis will also be supplying the hijab as part of the uniform for Belvedere Academy in Liverpool, which is a non-denominational girls’ school with pupils from a wide range of religious backgrounds.

Its two-piece hijabs are sold for £6 each in navy or black and are available alongside a formal uniform with £40 blazers carrying the school badge.

Belvedere, founded 130 years ago, was the first independent school in the country to become an academy in 2007. The comprehensive has been judged ‘outstanding’ by Ofsted.

John Lewis said it is simply responding to demand.

A spokesman for the department store said: ‘We provide uniforms for 350 schools across the country. The school informs us of the items they want us to sell as part of their uniform list.’

Last year, former Lib Dem Home Office minister Jeremy Browne, triggered controversy by calling for a debate on whether women should be banned from the wearing the veil in public places such as schools.

He suggested Muslim girls were being pressurized into wearing the religious dress, saying: ‘We should be very cautious about imposing religious conformity on a society which has always valued freedom of expression.’

His comments were rejected by Mohammed Shafiq of the Ramadhan Foundation who said he was ‘disgusted’ by them, adding: ‘Whatever one’s religion they should be free to practise it according to their own choices.’

Another company to add to my boycott list, I already have had Subway down on the list for a year now (and i've stuck to it even when i've been tempted) after they decided to ban pork in some of their restaurants to appease the 'Religion of Peace'. Like it or not, it's MY country and i'll insist on having MY customs followed rather than watch it look increasingly like downtown Kabul - I hope John Lewis suffer for this, and judging by the article comments they shall do. I'll send an email off right now too, actually.

I was going to post more, but i'll restrain myself for now as my blood pressure has just gone through the roof.

Thoughts?

[Jurv]

i don't understand why it's a problem or why it's even in the news

[The Don]

i don't understand why it's a problem or why it's even in the news

Nor do I cameron, nor do I.

[-:Undertaker:-]

i don't understand why it's a problem or why it's even in the news

You know, you're right - having 15th century clothing on our streets that keeps women covered up as though they're private property is just fine in 2014..... when it's Islam of course. When it comes to a small Christian B&B turning away a gay couple politely though, well - there's hell to pay!

That's not toleranttttt or inclusive see.

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_RXK5uBP2kgY/S89kh5eu6lI/AAAAAAAAAMo/Lh0k5W9SJyI/s1600/files.php.jpeg

So diverse! Just how we want our women to dress in 1614 2014.

[The Don]

You know, you're right - having 15th century clothing on our streets that keeps women covered up as though they're private property is just fine in 2014..... when it's Islam of course. When it comes to a small B&B turning away a gay couple politely though, well - there's hell to pay.

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_RXK5uBP2kgY/S89kh5eu6lI/AAAAAAAAAMo/Lh0k5W9SJyI/s1600/files.php.jpeg

So diverse!

They aren't wearing hijab's in the picture you posted which really highlights how ignorant you actually are. Is there also meant to be a link between John Lewis selling hijab's and somebody turning away a gay couple from their b&b or are these just the ramblings of an incoherent bigot (Boycotting a store for selling a different cultures clothing is pretty much a textbook example of bigotry) which i'm reading. Please do point out the comparison if i've missed it.

[Kardan]

Subway only removed non-halal products from 10% of their stores...

And I must say the pulled pork subways I've had recently were lovely.

I also have no issue with John Lewis selling hijabs.

[-:Undertaker:-]

They aren't wearing hijab's in the picture you posted which really highlights how ignorant you actually are.

M'dear, whether it's the full post box outfit or this style I do not care. I don't like it and neither do the majority of Britons.

http://yougov.co.uk/news/2013/09/18/most-still-want-ban-burka-britain/

If people are going to come to our country, it is high time they started integrating rather than living as though they're in Saudi Arabia.


Is there also meant to be a link between John Lewis selling hijab's and somebody turning away a gay couple from their bbq or are these just the ramblings of an incoherent bigot (Boycotting a store for selling a different cultures clothing is pretty much a textbook example of bigotry) which i'm reading. Please do point out the comparison if i've missed it.

Well actually, funny you should say that because I was thinking of you - as the chief quisling - when that comparison crossed my mind. You're the oh so typical self-hating liberal who will and has demanded in the past that two Christian B&B owners face the courts due to them bringing their religious beliefs into society/their business, yet you'll celebrate and praise the fact that a 15th century garment that treats women as private property is becoming the norm in British society in the year 2014.

And even more ironic and thus proving how debased your world view is, you'll call ME the bigot for arguing against a garment that treats women as the private property of men... which is a concept that we fought against and largely won a 100 years ago.


http://www.quickmeme.com/img/b5/b581cd1560d2e543d9e27d5547a80e8c6cf6c529a0973459fa b0373fcbb6695c.jpg

http://www.quickmeme.com/img/74/74c32d9b3fe15f547f7fd064ab2bc70d693154bad9b2c890a0 86dfbe59da7189.jpg

[The Don]

M'dear, whether it's the full post box outfit or this style I do not care. I don't like it and neither do the majority of Britons.

http://yougov.co.uk/news/2013/09/18/most-still-want-ban-burka-britain/

If people are going to come to our country, it is high time they started integrating rather than living as though they're in Saudi Arabia.



Well actually, funny you should say that because I was thinking of you - as the chief quisling - when that comparison crossed my mind. You're the oh so typical self-hating liberal who will and has demanded in the past that two Christian B&B owners face the courts due to them bringing their religious beliefs into society/their business, yet you'll celebrate and praise the fact that a 15th century garment that treats women as private property is becoming the norm in British society in the year 2014.

And even more ironic and thus proving how debased your world view is, you'll call ME the bigot for arguing against a garment that treats women as the private property of men... which is a concept that we fought against and largely won a 100 years ago.


http://www.quickmeme.com/img/b5/b581cd1560d2e543d9e27d5547a80e8c6cf6c529a0973459fa b0373fcbb6695c.jpg

http://www.quickmeme.com/img/74/74c32d9b3fe15f547f7fd064ab2bc70d693154bad9b2c890a0 86dfbe59da7189.jpg

do you legit not see the different between a hijab and a burka or are you just stupid?

[-:Undertaker:-]

do you legit not see the different between a hijab and a burka or are you just stupid?

Did you not hear me? I said I don't like either.

As good and as accurate as those memes sum you up, I might aswell have just posted a picture of a confused monkey scratching it's head.

[The Don]

Did you not hear me? I said I don't like either.

As good and as accurate as those memes sum you up, I might aswell have just posted a picture of a confused monkey scratching it's head.

Well you said a majority of britons don't like the hijab too then posted a poll about the burka. I think the confused one here is you.

- - - Updated - - -

I don't get what this threads about, you're all for a free market yet you're making a thread complaining because a companies selling a product you don't like? Sort it out.

[sex]

9 pounds is gd i wud get 1 for a laugh

[Sticky-Note]

If someone is legally entitled to live there, then it is their country too. People have the freedom to choose a religion and therefore can choose what they wear.

[-:Undertaker:-]

I don't get what this threads about, you're all for a free market yet you're making a thread complaining because a companies selling a product you don't like? Sort it out.

We've established after numerous debates on here that you are unable to make the distinction between personal opinion and the law.

So I won't waste my breath explaining it (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Libertarianism).


If someone is legally entitled to live there, then it is their country too. People have the freedom to choose a religion and therefore can choose what they wear.

Owning a British passport, which are handed like like confetti nowadays, doesn't make you part of a country anymore than you could consider me Mongolian if you handed me a Mongolian passport tomorrow with my name stamped on it.

If somebody wishes to live here, then they should be expected to do so on the basis that they will integrate with the native culture and/or customs.

[Sticky-Note]

We've established after numerous debates on here that you are unable to make the distinction between personal opinion and the law.

So I won't waste my breath explaining it (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Libertarianism).



Owning a British passport, which are handed like like confetti nowadays, doesn't make you part of a country anymore than you could consider me Mongolian if you handed me a Mongolian passport tomorrow with my name stamped on it.

If somebody wishes to live here, then they should be expected to do so on the basis that they will integrate with the native culture and/or customs.

I don't mean just visiting. The ones who live there. You can say what you want but the law states they are part of that country and honestly, you can't do anything about it. Not EVERYONE who was born there follows the same customs so you can stop creating stereotypes around an entire country please.

[The Don]

We've established after numerous debates on here that you are unable to make the distinction between personal opinion and the law.

So I won't waste my breath explaining it (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Libertarianism).

Of course I understand the difference, but you've not established any sort of point to this thread. Are we all supposed to sit here discussing how wrong it is for a private company to be providing goods to a niche demographic? Is this somehow supposed to prove how Britain's overrun with a Muslim incursion? It seems like a thread solely for stirring up prejudice.


Owning a British passport, which are handed like like confetti nowadays, doesn't make you part of a country anymore than you could consider me Mongolian if you handed me a Mongolian passport tomorrow with my name stamped on it.

If somebody wishes to live here, then they should be expected to do so on the basis that they will integrate with the native culture and/or customs.

Are you suggesting you want to stop people from wearing the hijab?

[-:Undertaker:-]

I don't mean just visiting. The ones who live there. You can say what you want but the law states they are part of that country and honestly, you can't do anything about it. Not EVERYONE who was born there follows the same customs so you can stop creating stereotypes around an entire country please.

I can draw attention to it before it progressively gets worse and worse and we end up with the entire country living in segregated cultural ghettos.

[Sticky-Note]

I can draw attention to it before it progressively gets worse and worse and we end up with the entire country living in segregated cultural ghettos.

As there is thousands of religions, races, etc., if you can't accept multiculturalism (which is essentially the entire planet), try moving to the moon?

[-:Undertaker:-]

Of course I understand the difference, but you've not established any sort of point to this thread. Are we all supposed to sit here discussing how wrong it is for a private company to be providing goods to a niche demographic? Is this somehow supposed to prove how Britain's overrun with a Muslim incursion?

Work it out yourself.


It seems like a thread solely for stirring up prejudice.

Another hugely ironic comment from somebody who bends over backwards to defend Islamic culture.


http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-2DBYr_Z1hfg/TzQEMQoSCpI/AAAAAAAAC7U/adKEI54v0zY/s320/IronyMeter1.gif



Are you suggesting you want to stop people from wearing the hijab?

Did I suggest such a thing in this thread?

My opinions on immigration and cultural integration are pretty clear cut, and it starts at the border.


As there is thousands of religions, races, etc., if you can't accept multiculturalism (which is essentially the entire planet), try moving to the moon?

I don't accept multiculturalism within borders, correct - because that is why borders exist with good reason.

[Sticky-Note]

Work it out yourself.



Another hugely ironic comment from somebody who bends over backwards to defend Islamic culture.


http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-2DBYr_Z1hfg/TzQEMQoSCpI/AAAAAAAAC7U/adKEI54v0zY/s320/IronyMeter1.gif




Did I suggest such a thing in this thread?

My opinions on immigration and cultural integration are pretty clear cut, and it starts at the border.



I don't accept multiculturalism within borders, correct - because that is why borders exist with good reason.

Honestly, in a sense you kind of sound like Hitler.

[-:Undertaker:-]

Honestly, in a sense you kind of sound like Hitler.

Because I make the suggestion that people coming to settle in another country conform and respect the customs and laws of that country?

Honestly, in a sense that was a bit of a silly comment. Why do you think borders and nations exist my friend? For fun? The hell of it? Think about it.

[Jssy]

I think you're being a bit over the top in all honesty. You can't class the minority as the majority. Its an item of clothing at the end of the day and those who choose to wear it will and those who don't want to wear it won't. I'm a Christian but everyone regardless of culture/religion or even purely own choice has the freedom to wear what they wish to.

[Sticky-Note]

Because I make the suggestion that people coming to settle in another country conform and respect the customs and laws of that country?

Honestly, in a sense that was a bit of a silly comment.

The thing about religion is it is a personal thing. Someone can be born in your country and still follow religions from other countries. Unless you are forcing it on others it is a PERSONAL thing. Segregating people further helps nothing and can cause wars because like you and me everyone wants their freedom. I say you sound like Hitler because you are being extremely egotistical and as The Don said, very ignorant.

[The Don]

Work it out yourself.

You made the thread with a clear intention, what was it?


Another hugely ironic comment from somebody who bends over backwards to defend Islamic culture.
Defending the right for people to wear what they like is stirring up prejudice? Oh how ironic indeed.
http://static.fjcdn.com/pictures/Le_2bc6e2_1936193.jpg



Did I suggest such a thing in this thread?

Yeh, you said "If somebody wishes to live here, then they should be expected to do so on the basis that they will integrate with the native culture and/or customs." Implying that if somebody want to wear a hijab or dress alternatively in a way that differs from your skewed, archaic idea of what Britain is then they should be kicked out of the country. Better start deporting all the goths, hipsters, chavs or anyone that doesn't wear cloth tunics and fur cloaks.


I don't accept multiculturalism within borders, correct - because that is why borders exist with good reason.

Yet you want Scotland to stay in the UK in the coming referendum, the irony is too much.

[-:Undertaker:-]

The thing about religion is it is a personal thing. Someone can be born in your country and still follow religions from other countries. Unless you are forcing it on others it is a PERSONAL thing. Segregating people further helps nothing and can cause wars because like you and me everyone wants their freedom. I say you sound like Hitler because you are being extremely egotistical and as The Don said, very ignorant.

Did I or have I ever suggested that immigrants should be forced to change their religion as a requirement of citizenship?

I don't recall that I did, and yet I am the one sitting here being accused of ignorance. :P


You made the thread with a clear intention, what was it?

To stimulate a debate on immigration and integration, as always.


Defending the right for people to wear what they like is stirring up prejudice? Oh how ironic indeed.

Defending the liberty to wear whatever one wishes without state interference is one thing, agreeing with the clothing itself and pretending that the item is good for society and doesn't get in the way of integration is another thing.


Yeh, you said "If somebody wishes to live here, then they should be expected to do so on the basis that they will integrate with the native culture and/or customs." Implying that if somebody want to wear a hijab or dress alternatively in a way that differs from your skewed, archaic idea of what Britain is then they should be kicked out of the country. Better start deporting all the goths, hipsters, chavs or anyone that doesn't wear cloth tunics and fur cloaks.

As I said earlier on, you're a quisling and a self-loather through and through.

I believe Britain should have a culture with values, you believe it shouldn't be anything other than separate ghettos. It's really that simple, isn't it?


Yet you want Scotland to stay in the UK in the coming referendum, the irony is too much.

Have I not said numerous times that I support the right of Scotland to break away? Have I not also said that the debate should be focused more on what the Scottish people identify with culturally rather than economic arguments? Have I not also said that it's my belief that Scotland and the rest of Britain are culturally compatible enough to exist within the same political and legal union whereas say the North Sudan and the South Sudan were not?

Did I say all of that or what? Or are you just ignoring all of that clear and concise logic in order to score cheap points?

[Sticky-Note]

Did I or have I ever suggested that immigrants should be forced to change their religion as a requirement of citizenship?

I don't recall that I did, and yet I am the one sitting here being accused of ignorance. :P



To stimulate a debate on immigration and integration, as always.



Defending the liberty to wear whatever one wishes without state interference is one thing, agreeing with the clothing itself and pretending that the item is good for society and doesn't get in the way of integration is another thing.



As I said earlier on, you're a quisling and a self-loather through and through.



Have I not said numerous times that I support the right of Scotland to break away? Have I not also said that the debate should be focused more on what the Scottish people identify with culturally rather than economic arguments? Have I not also said that it's my belief that Scotland and the rest of Britain are culturally compatible enough to exist within the same political and legal union whereas say the North Sudan and the South Sudan were not?

Did I say all of that or what? Or are you just ignoring all of that clear and concise logic in order to score cheap points?

You are complaining of people wearing religious based clothing in your country. I never stated you said they can't follow their own religions, I simply said if anyone can follow that religion they also have the freedom to wear what they want. My point was that someone who is born in the UK can wear a hijab. It is not only people from that country that follow those customs, you don't seem to understand that.

- - - Updated - - -

It is an ENTIRE country. You are extremely narrow-minded if you think every single person who was born in the UK follows the same customs.

[-:Undertaker:-]

You are complaining of people wearing religious based clothing in your country. I never stated you said they can't follow their own religions, I simply said if anyone can follow that religion they also have the freedom to wear what they want. My point was that someone who is born in the UK can wear a hijab. It is not only people from that country that follow those customs, you don't seem to understand that.

I haven't said that people should convert religion on coming to the UK.
I haven't said that the law/state should be used to force people to dress a certain way.

Most of the ire directed at me from yourself and others seems to be on the basis of what I haven't even said rather than what I have said.

[Sticky-Note]

I haven't said that people should convert religion on coming to the UK.
I haven't said that the law/state should be used to force people to dress a certain way.

Most of the ire directed at me from yourself and others seems to be on the basis of what I haven't even said rather than what I have said.

You said that you want people who move to the country to convert to your own customs.
As I said before: It is an ENTIRE country. You are extremely narrow-minded if you think every single person who was born in the UK follows the same customs.

[-:Undertaker:-]

You said that you want people who move to the country to convert to your own customs.
As I said before: It is an ENTIRE country. You are extremely narrow-minded if you think every single person who was born in the UK follows the same customs.

I believe they should make an effort to integrate and become broadly a part of the same country and culture, absolutely.

Does that make me a Nazi as you claimed earlier or does that just make me sane and rational?

[FlyingJesus]

Another company to add to my boycott list

But I thought company boycotts were the work of the devil, or is that only if it's people who don't look like you doing it?


Like it or not, it's MY country and i'll insist on having MY customs followed

Actually no it isn't, and congratulations on finally admitting that you want to force certain customs on people based on nothing but your idea of what a person ought to look and sound like. This is truly a fantastic quote


15th century clothing ... is just fine in 2014 ... when it's Islam of course

The oldest example of a linen shirt is around 5,000 years old, and there is evidence that people wore trousers as much as 50,000 years ago although admittedly the first truly recorded manufacture of them is dated to the 6th Century. I take it you are staunchly against such hideously outdated modes of attire, or is the reality of the matter (as usual) the exact opposite of what you're stating whereby it's only those related to Islam in some way which are undesirable?


I don't like it and neither do the majority of Britons.

IF I DON'T LIKE IT YOU CAN'T


garment that treats women as private property

Not the case, especially with a mere hijab. You'd do well to actually read about these things before frothing at the mouth over a garment that only covers the head - something which Christian women are also supposed to wear with regards to Biblical law, incidentally


Because I make the suggestion that people coming to settle in another country conform and respect the customs and laws of that country?

You don't suggest, you demand, and as usual you ignore the fact that customs (laws aren't applicable here since it's not illegal to wear a hat or scarf) change constantly. You not liking it does not make it any less of a fact no matter how angry a piece of fabric that hides one's hair makes you

[Sticky-Note]

I believe they should make an effort to integrate and become broadly a part of the same country and culture, absolutely.

Does that make me a Nazi as you claimed earlier or does that just make me sane and rational?

You are tossing around the idea of revoking other peoples freedom. Deny it all you want it is pretty clear what is happening here. I would agree with you IF they were trying to force THEIR customs on you, but they aren't. So just leave them alone lol. Again I repeat, not everyone born and raised in the UK follows the same culture so you're still creating the idea of a majority which you have nothing to back up on. Going to say this one more time: stop creating a stereotype for an entire country because it just isn't like that.

[-:Undertaker:-]

But I thought company boycotts were the work of the devil, or is that only if it's people who don't look like you doing it?

Gibberish.


Actually no it isn't, and congratulations on finally admitting that you want to force certain customs on people based on nothing but your idea of what a person ought to look and sound like. This is truly a fantastic quote

It's perfectly rational to expect that those coming to settle in Britain will agree to and will make efforts to conform to the host culture and the values of the host culture. And British people via the British state has a duty and a right to demand that.

As I have said before, I believe integration can best be de facto enforced by simply limiting incoming numbers.


The oldest example of a linen shirt is around 5,000 years old, and there is evidence that people wore trousers as much as 50,000 years ago although admittedly the first truly recorded manufacture of them is dated to the 6th Century. I take it you are staunchly against such hideously outdated modes of attire, or is the reality of the matter (as usual) the exact opposite of what you're stating whereby it's only those related to Islam in some way which are undesirable?

You make the claim that the burka and hijab are desirable?


Not the case, especially with a mere hijab. You'd do well to actually read about these things before frothing at the mouth over a garment that only covers the head - something which Christian women are also supposed to wear with regards to Biblical law, incidentally

Western Christianity thankfully had an enlightenment which means that mainstream Christianity no longer pushes for the death penalty for homosexuality, it no longer treats women as mere cattle, it no longer burns people at the stake, it no longer treats women as the private property of men.

The same sadly can't be said for Islam in 2014.


You don't suggest, you demand, and as usual you ignore the fact that customs (laws aren't applicable here since it's not illegal to wear a hat or scarf) change constantly. You not liking it does not make it any less of a fact no matter how angry a piece of fabric that hides one's hair makes you

Customs to evolve and change over time, but that's a little different from third world customs being imported in in large numbers.

- - - Updated - - -


You are tossing around the idea of revoking other peoples freedom. Deny it all you want it is pretty clear what is happening here. I would agree with you IF they were trying to force THEIR customs on you, but they aren't. So just leave them alone lol. Again I repeat, not everyone born and raised in the UK follows the same culture so you're still creating the idea of a majority which you have nothing to back up on. Going to say this one more time: stop creating a stereotype for an entire country because it just isn't like that.

My friend, they have no automatic 'freedom' that allows them to settle to the United Kingdom should they wish.

The power over who to allow in and what we would require as the conditions for being allowed in are with the British people via the British state.

[FlyingJesus]

Gibberish.

Not at all, you literally just made a thread saying so


It's perfectly rational to expect that those coming to settle in Britain will agree to and will make efforts to conform to the host culture and the values of the host culture. And British people via the British state has a duty and a right to demand that.

Wearing a scarf on your head does nothing to attack anyone's culture, you're talking nonsense. And no, you do not have a right to demand that someone adheres to your every whim just because you have some false notion of what's proper British behaviour


You make the claim that the burka and hijab are desirable?

They're not for me, but please do try to actually respond to what I've written. It's not difficult; you look at the words and say things in response to them rather than derailing. You're stating that a particular garment is undesirable because it's C15, yet have no problem with items thousands of years older


Western Christianity thankfully had an enlightenment which means that mainstream Christianity no longer pushes for the death penalty for homosexuality, it no longer treats women as mere cattle, it no longer burns people at the stake, it no longer treats women as the private property of men.

Ahhhhhhhhhhh, you mean we drastically changed our culture


The same sadly can't be said for Islam in 2014.

You are confusing Islam with hardline governments. I for one don't know any Muslims who burn people at the stake

[Sticky-Note]

Gibberish.



It's perfectly rational to expect that those coming to settle in Britain will agree to and will make efforts to conform to the host culture and the values of the host culture. And British people via the British state has a duty and a right to demand that.

As I have said before, I believe integration can best be de facto enforced by simply limiting incoming numbers.



You make the claim that the burka and hijab are desirable?



Western Christianity thankfully had an enlightenment which means that mainstream Christianity no longer pushes for the death penalty for homosexuality, it no longer treats women as mere cattle, it no longer burns people at the stake, it no longer treats women as the private property of men.

The same sadly can't be said for Islam in 2014.



Customs to evolve and change over time, but that's a little different from third world customs being imported in in large numbers.

- - - Updated - - -



My friend, they have no automatic 'freedom' that allows them to settle to the United Kingdom should they wish.

The power over who to allow in and what we would require as the conditions for being allowed in are with the British people via the British state.

They are in your country for a reason. They were allowed. Didn't say they have the freedom to move where they want, but clearly by law they live there too.

[-:Undertaker:-]

Wearing a scarf on your head does nothing to attack anyone's culture, you're talking nonsense. And no, you do not have a right to demand that someone adheres to your every whim just because you have some false notion of what's proper British behaviour

Ahh, that tired argument.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vxpDGo1Dtb8

First question, then later debunked.


They're not for me, but please do try to actually respond to what I've written. It's not difficult; you look at the words and say things in response to them rather than derailing. You're stating that a particular garment is undesirable because it's C15, yet have no problem with items thousands of years older

Maybe it has something to do with the fact women are forced into them by paranoid and posessive husbands?


Ahhhhhhhhhhh, you mean we drastically changed our culture

Our own culture and over a period of hundreds of years, not via mass third world immigration.


You are confusing Islam with hardline governments. I for one don't know any Muslims who burn people at the stake

And there comes a point where the two may possibly be connected.... duh?


They are in your country for a reason. They were allowed. Didn't say they have the freedom to move where they want, but clearly by law they live there too.

Oh no, you misunderstand me - obviously there's nothing that can be done in terms of limiting numbers for those who are already here, but steps certainly can be taken such as making sure all official forms are printed ONLY in English and so on.

[Sticky-Note]

Ahh, that tired argument.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vxpDGo1Dtb8

First question, then later debunked.



Maybe it has something to do with the fact women are forced into them by paranoid and posessive husbands?



Our own culture and over a period of hundreds of years, not via mass third world immigration.



And there comes a point where the two may possibly be connected.... duh?



Oh no, you misunderstand me - obviously there's nothing that can be done in terms of limiting numbers for those who are already here, but steps certainly can be taken such as making sure all official forms are printed ONLY in English and so on.


You are just regurgitating the same information over and over. Point is, you can't tell people what to wear, what to do, nothing. Unless you have a law that says so. You can't do ANYTHING. So might as well get over it now.

[FlyingJesus]

Ahh, that tired argument.

The "tired argument" that you don't have the right to force people into doing what you want, yes. Dan once again showing his disdain for a free democratic society


Maybe it has something to do with the fact women are forced into them by paranoid and posessive husbands?

...Because it's only ok to force someone into something if it's you doing it. Astounding. In any case this behaviour occurs in absolute minuscule minorities of British Muslims and generally among those who are simply abusive people as anyone can be regardless of what book they read. You're really showing your ignorance (not that you ever really hide it) by making this claim; it's like saying joint bank accounts are the source of all evil because some people take unfair advantage of their partner's income


Our own culture and over a period of hundreds of years, not via mass third world immigration.

So when it's a change you like it's our own culture moving on, and if it's one you don't like it's a third world influence... righto. Shocking as it may be, western values haven't sprung from some magic pot of Britishness


And there comes a point where the two may possibly be connected.... duh?

Yes in the same way that the acts of Putin totally reflect the values of all bald white men

[karter]

Bolstering of the West's image of freedom and acceptance simultaneously criticizing the barbaric culture of non-western countries is the biggest irony of all time. bleh you tried hard for someone as socially stunted as yourself. Enough of the "third world customs" talks to make your lopsided case, and really what's the issue here? A headscarf? That's oppressive to you now...?

Just a reminder that most, if not all women wear the headscarf by their own choice.(See how I say headscarf because Hijab =/= Burqa =/= Shayla) Nor does the entire Muslim world follow this tradition (Banned in Turkey for example). Tired and exhausted by liberals and their saviour complex (in most case which is just a tool to showcase how backward those people are who don't pertain to western culture). Muslim women are experts of the oppression they themselves face, stop talking about them or FOR them. Criticism of Islam will come from people who follow Islam, just like criticism of """Western Christianity""" comes from followers or ex-followers of the same religion. Also, another fact is that the "third world" immigrants come from countries ravaged by western imperialism and colonization. High immigration and the so-called problem with multiculturalism is just the West reaping what it sowed.

Also, your theory of integration into a culture is just vague. Immigrants, mostly from the non-western world will never be properly assimilated into the fabric of a culture which was geared up against them from the start.

[Hannah]

If they want to be treated like private property of their husbands because that is their religion, then let them.
If they want to cover themselves head to toe, that's their choice and no one elses.

What gets me is that they can go into shops and such with only their eyes showing and noone will say a word to avoid stepping on politically correct toes. However, go in to a shop wearing a helmet, hoodie, etc. and you'll be sent straight out or told to take it off for security and identification purposes.

LOGIC?

[Yawn]

Can u c+p ur letter to John Lewis for us to read pls

Also if u could edit it and post it without restraining urself and as u wanted to write it that would be kl

[merier]

England doesn't belong to you, there are over 50 million people who live here and it's undoubtedly become a multicultural nation so saying that you insist on having your customs followed by everybody is ridiculous. Nobody is forcing you to wear a hijab and eat halal meat, the option is merely there for those who want to. I commend John Lewis for not conforming to the anti-Islam hatred which has arisen in our country and I hope they're not the last big name company to show that they respect the beliefs of others.

Haha peace out x

[buttons]

And even more ironic and thus proving how debased your world view is, you'll call ME the bigot for arguing against a garment that treats women as the private property of men... which is a concept that we fought against and largely won a 100 years ago.



http://www.quickmeme.com/img/74/74c32d9b3fe15f547f7fd064ab2bc70d693154bad9b2c890a0 86dfbe59da7189.jpg

please stop talking on behalf of muslims. many, MANY muslims are happy and PROUD to wear the hijab and you would understand that had you asked their side rather than what non-Muslim Britons think. bit ironic you go on about possessive husbands 'forcing' them to wear something when your alternative is to force them out of something they may want. there are muslims who do not wear the hijab, especially in the UK and other muslims accept that so it's not the case of being an oppressive system.

as for 'british ' customs,don't make me laugh?? there are plenty customs here that have been taken from other countries you know?

[Kardan]

It's quite refreshing to see new faces in current affairs.

Anyway, -:Undertaker:-; what about all the white British women that wear hijabs? Where do they fall in all of this?

[lemons]

http://www.quickmeme.com/img/d3/d3a140484fa3e53104de40dfc91a6c95cf1b83983cc5bc3c5f 9a85a0985acc5f.jpg

[buttons]

It's quite refreshing to see new faces in current affairs.

Anyway, @-:Undertaker:- (http://www.habboxforum.com/member.php?u=24233); what about all the white British women that wear hijabs? Where do they fall in all of this?
BRAINWASHED AND OPPRESSED INTO IT despite the fact many are drawn to it because they feel wearing the hijab is more respectful to themselves. they like how they only share their body and beauty with special people.

[merier]

-:Undertaker:-; it's ironic that you talk about British customs when almost everything you would consider fundamentally British was leeched from another country

[karter]

found an interesting post about hijab here (http://distinctlydottyaura.tumblr.com/post/95087624018/im-a-non-muslim-and-i-dont-know-that-much-about-islam) (Written by a muslim woman)


I think the first thing is that you misunderstand what the hijab is actually about. It’s a form of worship, something that a Muslim does to please her creator, because she believes that it’s been asked of her to do this. It’s also something that many Muslim women feel liberates them from having to conform to society’s expectations of women. There is literally NOTHING in the Quran which talks about the hijab as something women have to wear because it’s her responsibility to cover herself from the lustful eyes of men. Nothing, zip, nada, zilch. The only thing that comes even close to it is aayat (verses) which asks women AND men to lower their gaze (aka not to ogle/leer at people). Those interpretations come from preconceived misogynistic ideals that men have, it’s extrapolation from the original text.Also the concept of hijab (which literally means ‘cover’ in arabic) is there for men as well. Men are also called upon to be modest in the way they dress in the Quran, in the very same aayah which asks women to do it, in fact.
I also wanted to say— I noticed that you used the phrases ‘it’s wrong to tell a woman what to wear’ and ‘it’s wrong to tell a woman to cover up’— I completely agree with this, but you have to understand that a large majority of the women who wear the hijab CHOOSE to do it. I have not met a single woman who was forced to wear it, and I come from a country where a large majority are Muslims. I probably know more people in my life who wear the hijab than those who don’t, and all of them chose to do it of their own free will.


I know that there are people who are forced to wear it however, and I think that’s horrible, but it’s important to recognise that this is either because of that particular culture or because of misogynistic views or any number of reasons that actually have nothing to do with Islam. Don’t confuse that with the actual teachings of Islam, people find messed up ways to interpret religious text in EVERY religion.
Also, telling a woman to cover up is wrong— but so is telling a woman that she needs to show skin in order to be appealing to men. Is that not what the millions of magazines, the media, and society tells us every day? It goes both ways. Stop telling women what to wear, period, regardless of whether it’s about covering up or showing more skin. That should be solely her choice, no one else gets a say in it.

[Aiden]

I'm kind of split. I don't really care if they wear them or not, it's their decision. But then I feel kind of mean but I'm not a fan of other religions/cultures coming into the mainstream. I don't really believe that Christians should get exclusive religion rights either though... I don't like any kind of religion that affects others in any way.

[FlyingJesus]

Following on from what Karter's posted about the hijab being a form of worship rather than oppression, it should be noted that this is also supposed to be the case for Christian women according to Biblical law, and New Testament at that so the Christian vs Mosaic law argument can't even be invoked; it's been ignored in modern Christian teachings because it's inconvenient to them and Christians don't seem to enjoy following their own teachings or even learning them but it's actually right there in writing

1 Corinthians 11:4-6
Every man who prays or prophesies with his head covered dishonours his head. But every woman who prays or prophesies with her head uncovered dishonours her head—it is the same as having her head shaved. For if a woman does not cover her head, she might as well have her hair cut off; but if it is a disgrace for a woman to have her hair cut off or her head shaved, then she should cover her head.

Then again if you use the word Christian in the way Dan does to mean "a white person who picks and chooses morality according to what's easiest for them" it's no surprise that the majority of westerners don't adhere to this

[Sharon]

have you actually heard yourself sometimes dan! i love u and all but you're being a tad extreme in the words you're using. i think it's great that john lewis have opened up and are selling hijabs because like it or not there are plenty of people from different backgrounds and religions and there's no reason why they shouldn't be catered for.

idk why you find it SO hard to accept that this country has many different ppl, and SHOULD HAVE many diff people because it's all about accepting other people that arent the same as u and just getting on with your own life lol if you don't want to wear any '15th century clothing' then don't but i cannot see why you have such a strong problem with people who do

[Kardan]

have you actually heard yourself sometimes dan! i love u and all but you're being a tad extreme in the words you're using. i think it's great that john lewis have opened up and are selling hijabs because like it or not there are plenty of people from different backgrounds and religions and there's no reason why they shouldn't be catered for.

idk why you find it SO hard to accept that this country has many different ppl, and SHOULD HAVE many diff people because it's all about accepting other people that arent the same as u and just getting on with your own life lol if you don't want to wear any '15th century clothing' then don't but i cannot see why you have such a strong problem with people who do

Because they're not white British Christian straight people that support UKIP/Maggie Thatcher?

[hairpins]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2726390/John-Lewiss-new-line-hijabs-wear-school-Department-store-signs-contract-schools-London-Liverpool-offer-Conservative-Islamic-clothing.html
http://rt.com/uk/180816-uk-retailer-school-hijabs/
http://www.bathchronicle.co.uk/John-Lewis-stores-sell-hijab-schools-Bath-West/story-22758790-detail/story.html

John Lewis's new line of hijabs to wear at school


http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2014/08/16/article-2726390-208D922400000578-895_306x429.jpg



Another company to add to my boycott list, I already have had Subway down on the list for a year now (and i've stuck to it even when i've been tempted) after they decided to ban pork in some of their restaurants to appease the 'Religion of Peace'. Like it or not, it's MY country and i'll insist on having MY customs followed rather than watch it look increasingly like downtown Kabul - I hope John Lewis suffer for this, and judging by the article comments they shall do. I'll send an email off right now too, actually.

I was going to post more, but i'll restrain myself for now as my blood pressure has just gone through the roof.

Thoughts?



lucks nise but r dey guna dew them in pink yew neva see war colurs dry com in in ????????????????????

[AgnesIO]

Quick browse of the forum and see this..

For goodness sake, Dan. Do you actually believe the rubbish that you so frequently spurt out? Why on earth should John Lewis not sell the hijab? Absolutely ridiculous that you are now going to 'boycott' them for such a thing.

The hijab is NOT a form of oppression for Islamic girls. It is a part of worship (and as somebody else pointed out, also listed in the bible). I know you firmly believe that allowing the hijab will lead to Sharia Law in the UK or something, but it simply isn't the case. And if you don't think that, I am very interested to know why on earth you have such an outrage about an item of clothing. I might boycott ASOS for selling chinos. I think they are horrible.

*Also, as a side note, all of my Indian Christian friends cover their heads without fail whilst praying etc. I'll let them know that it is outrageous that they do such a thing.

- - - Updated - - -


lucks nise but r dey guna dew them in pink yew neva see war colurs dry com in in ????????????????????

Hijabs are sound in virtually every colour imaginable across the world.

[myles]

I bought one for my daughter - problem?

[Chippiewill]

Dan, am I right in thinking that you just condemned a company for responding to market pressure. What the ****.

[hairpins]

I bought one for my daughter - problem?

now eye won't 1 4 xmas lol
relli dunt c ne problum wiv ne1 selin these

[mrwoooooooo]

*REMOVED*

Edited by e5 (Forum Super Moderator) - Please do not avoid the forum filter.

[Chippiewill]

I am utterly astounded as to why two super moderators and two members of general management spent 15 minutes staring at that comment like its an aborted fetus and done nothing about it. It takes all of two seconds to edit a post.

[MKR&*42]

Ikr Chippiewill, and not to mention the fact it was even there for over 2 hours..

[e5]

I am utterly astounded as to why two super moderators and two members of general management spent 15 minutes staring at that comment like its an aborted fetus and done nothing about it. It takes all of two seconds to edit a post.


Ikr Chippiewill, and not to mention the fact it was even there for over 2 hours..

There is only 2 smods and me being one of them, and i've literally just seen the post; I wasn't staring at it for 15 minutes, so don't go blaming me. Plus (A )GMS don't tend to edit posts.

[Chippiewill]

There is only 2 smods and me being one of them, and i've literally just seen the post, so don't go blaming me. Plus (A )GMS don't edit posts.

Calum saw it 15 minutes ago, and I see no reason why neither Matt or Chris can't spend two seconds editing a post to remove extreme, blatant and directed profanity before forwarding it to a super moderator to be properly addressed.

[lemons]

oh well it was well deserved

[e5]

Calum saw it 15 minutes ago, and I see no reason why neither Matt or Chris can't spend two seconds editing a post to remove extreme, blatant and directed profanity before forwarding it to a super moderator to be properly addressed.

Well it's gone now :cheers:

[Jazz]

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-w1GWxnHj9s4/UGta4DPo_yI/AAAAAAAATBM/g4EP-venXcc/s640/Violet+Crawley,+Dowager+Countess+of+Grantham+gif,+ Downton+Abbey+.gif

[karter]

such an apt comment; shame it's removed now

[Chippiewill]

oh well it was well deserved

Probably what Hitler thought about the Holocaust. Doesn't justify it in the slightest.

[Jazz]

Probably what Hitler thought about the Holocaust. Doesn't justify it in the slightest.

the holocaust is a little different to avoiding a forum filter on a habbo fansite

[lawrawrrr]

oh my goodness I've just read this thread and I am fully blown away

How is it ANYONE'S right to tell ANYONE what to wear? They aren't hurting anyone wearing burqas (which isn't even what this thread is about but is generally the 'scaremongering' factor which people seem to aim for), it's just religion. Although I don't think it's right what it stands for, treating a woman like property, it's their DECISION. I don't believe in enforcing feminist ideologies on anyone, the whole idea for me is freeing people to make their own decisions. Someone who's a homemaker isn't necessarily an anti-feminist, someone who chooses to work in the sex industry, ditto. Someone who doesn't have any high aspirations, ditto.

[Chippiewill]

the holocaust is a little different to avoiding a forum filter on a habbo fansite

Good thing it was an analogy and not a statement of equivalence then.

[Jssy]

this is a heated topic

[buttons]

I am utterly astounded as to why two super moderators and two members of general management spent 15 minutes staring at that comment like its an aborted fetus and done nothing about it. It takes all of two seconds to edit a post.
dnt get why u had to make analogy using 'aborted fetus ' you weirdo
weirdo being a tame word there

[FlyingJesus]

Do people often stare at aborted foetus for 2 hours idk but well done everyone on completely throwing the thread off track

[mrwoooooooo]

got 9 reps, was worth.

and I disagree with op

[peteyt]

I don't mind them selling these things at the end of the day I have no problem with other religions wearing their clothing and so on as long as its not forced on me or others and they respect our own religion. But I was just thinking in some supermarkets people cannot wear hoodies as it hides their identity from cameras do people wearing religious outfits get around this?