Woman 'beheaded' in North London

[lemons]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-29068391

Very scary I don't live far from there at all! Edmonton has always been known as a rough area people are murdered there all the time



A woman is thought to have been beheaded in the garden of a north London house.
The victim was found at an address in Nightingale Road, Edmonton, at about 13:00 BST, police said.
Officers discovered her collapsed in a garden area and she was pronounced dead at the scene.
A 25-year-old man was arrested on suspicion of murder and is in custody. Detectives said there is no suggestion the killing had a terrorist motive.
A Taser was used during the arrest of the man and a firearms officer is believed to have suffered a broken wrist.
'Visible attack'Police said the woman's next of kin had not been informed so they were unwilling to speculate on the nature of the woman's injuries or the type of weapon used.
http://news.bbcimg.co.uk/media/images/77379000/jpg/_77379675_77379669.jpg

Det Ch Insp John Sandlin said: "This is was a highly visible attack in broad daylight on a residential street.
"I can understand why this may cause people concern, however we are confident that we are not looking for anyone else at this stage.
"Whilst it is too early to speculate on what the motive behind this attack was I am confident, based on the information currently available to me, that it is not terrorist related.
"Specially trained family liaison officers will be deployed to support the family."

[Hannah]

It's a shame they won't release any detail about the suspect - yet jump quickly to claim that it is not related to terrorism or a hate crime.

Fab.

[lemons]

they just said on sky news it appears to be a random attack and other potential victims escaped

[Jurv]

oh god that's awful, makes me feel sick knowing that people are capable of doing something like this :Sick:

[Storking]

Beheading is 100% muslim extremist related.

RIP, what a disgusting thing to happen to someone. Religion is evil.

[Michael]

Ugh disgusting, why:(

[-:Undertaker:-]

Beheading is 100% muslim extremist related.

RIP, what a disgusting thing to happen to someone. Religion is evil.

I was just about to question or take bets on this coming from someone with a 'diverse' background or belonging to the 'Religion of Peace'.

I'm still 80% sure i'll be proved right.

RIP to the victim.

[Kardan]

Beheading is 100% muslim extremist related.

RIP, what a disgusting thing to happen to someone. Religion is evil.

Good old Henry VIII, our first Muslim King.

Nevertheless, a horrible situation, and it will be interesting to hear more details.

[IzzyUhh]

Horrible news, RIP to the victim.

[Storking]

Good old Henry VIII, our first Muslim King.

Nevertheless, a horrible situation, and it will be interesting to hear more details.

I was referring to modern times, we aren't in the 16th century!

[Kardan]

And the British woman that was beheaded in the Spanish supermarket in 2011, she was attacked by a Muslim?

[Hannah]

And the British woman that was beheaded in the Spanish supermarket in 2011, she was attacked by a Muslim?

Obviously not all muslims behead people, and not all beheadings are done by Muslims... however, it is increasingly possible that it had everything to do with religion.

[Kardan]

Well, initial reports are that it was a case of domestic abuse, but sure, carry on :P

And also didn't realise 100% =/= All

[Hannah]

I did not quote either of them purely because of poor statistics and what-not.

Domestic abuse? I thought it was a random attack? o.o

[Kardan]

Some sources have said random, some sources have said domestic abuse, none have said anything about religion :P

[scottish]

Det Ch Insp John Sandlin added: "Whilst it is too early to speculate on what the motive behind this attack was I am confident, based on the information currently available to me, that it is not terrorist related.


it most likely is nothing related, but obviously because terrorists beheaded someone lately everyones going to jump on the OMG TERRORISTS DONE IT boat.


"Police were called to the scene after a man was seen carrying a knife and attacking a car, police said. On arrival, officers found a woman collapsed against a wall in the back of a house."

IPCC has been contacted too

[Hannah]

That's true, or the raised terrorist threat.

[Matt]

That's horrible :(

The fact that it was random is quite scary too.

[-:Undertaker:-]

Good old Henry VIII, our first Muslim King.

Nevertheless, a horrible situation, and it will be interesting to hear more details.

Yes, because how we behaved 500 years ago is entirely relevant to 2014.

Anyway, turns out my guess was right and he was a muslim convert as recently as last year, surprise surprise. In terms of the Police saying this isn't an act of terror, as US talk show host Michael Savage said, so this is an act of love then ? In any case, why would anybody take any notice of what the Police say anymore when it comes to these matters as we know in Rotherham the Police ignored, along with the lovely Labour council, 1,400+ cases of child sex abuse over a 13 year period by Pakistani muslims in order to not upset 'the community'?

I don't trust the Police when it comes to these matters anymore than I can throw them. They've been politicised.

[Hannah]

We are constantly lied to in order to save face, particularly when there is a high possibility that it is related to a religion which is finding itself spread rapidly throughout the UK.

I do not intend for this to sound racist, and I have no issue with religions people chose - but when they start implementing their rules which are accepted over our own because of the large amount of them - then I start having issues.

No, I am not saying all muslims are terrorists or extremists - but when our terrorism threat has been increased to severe - why the hell are they allowed to continue wearing Burkas which cover everything but their eyes when if you were to wear a crash helmet, hoodie and such you are asked to leave and treated like a criminal?

And the fact that they try to hide the religious background behind criminals like this to protect the people belonging to this religion, it' ridiculous.
Yes, before you say something about muslims needing protecting because they are treated unfairly because of their religion - if they don't like it then they can go somewhere that is more... muslim friendly.

Inb4racismaccusations

[-:Undertaker:-]

We are constantly lied to in order to save face, particularly when there is a high possibility that it is related to a religion which is finding itself spread rapidly throughout the UK.

I do not intend for this to sound racist, and I have no issue with religions people chose - but when they start implementing their rules which are accepted over our own because of the large amount of them - then I start having issues.

No, I am not saying all muslims are terrorists or extremists - but when our terrorism threat has been increased to severe - why the hell are they allowed to continue wearing Burkas which cover everything but their eyes when if you were to wear a crash helmet, hoodie and such you are asked to leave and treated like a criminal?

And the fact that they try to hide the religious background behind criminals like this to protect the people belonging to this religion, it' ridiculous.
Yes, before you say something about muslims needing protecting because they are treated unfairly because of their religion - if they don't like it then they can go somewhere that is more... muslim friendly.

Inb4racismaccusations

If I could +rep you again so soon then I would.

[Empired]

We are constantly lied to in order to save face, particularly when there is a high possibility that it is related to a religion which is finding itself spread rapidly throughout the UK.

I do not intend for this to sound racist, and I have no issue with religions people chose - but when they start implementing their rules which are accepted over our own because of the large amount of them - then I start having issues.

No, I am not saying all muslims are terrorists or extremists - but when our terrorism threat has been increased to severe - why the hell are they allowed to continue wearing Burkas which cover everything but their eyes when if you were to wear a crash helmet, hoodie and such you are asked to leave and treated like a criminal?

And the fact that they try to hide the religious background behind criminals like this to protect the people belonging to this religion, it' ridiculous.
Yes, before you say something about muslims needing protecting because they are treated unfairly because of their religion - if they don't like it then they can go somewhere that is more... muslim friendly.

Inb4racismaccusations
I do actually agree with this. I believe France won't let anyone wear any sort of religious clothing/accessory? So Christians can't even wear a cross round their neck. I think that's a much more sensible way of dealing with the problem; just saying no one can wear anything to show their religion.

What happened was horrible but I don't wanna jump to any conclusions saying why it happened because I just don't know for certain?? And neither do any of you.

[Hannah]

I do actually agree with this. I believe France won't let anyone wear any sort of religious clothing/accessory? So Christians can't even wear a cross round their neck. I think that's a much more sensible way of dealing with the problem; just saying no one can wear anything to show their religion.

What happened was horrible but I don't wanna jump to any conclusions saying why it happened because I just don't know for certain?? And neither do any of you.

We should follow in France's footsteps really, it'd be much safer and more beneficial for us - being that Muslim is our most 'active' religion which carries higher coverage of persons - there are also extremists (like in any religion) which appear to cause the biggest issues when they can escape undetected by wearing a Burka... I personally thought that would have been enough to ban anything hiding identity.

Of course we do not actually know, but it just seems like the likely option because of previous - more recent - attacks.
Obviously I could be wrong, which is why I say likely and not certainly - but we'll not know the full truth as everyone has too much to hide.

[-:Undertaker:-]

I do actually agree with this. I believe France won't let anyone wear any sort of religious clothing/accessory? So Christians can't even wear a cross round their neck. I think that's a much more sensible way of dealing with the problem; just saying no one can wear anything to show their religion.

What happened was horrible but I don't wanna jump to any conclusions saying why it happened because I just don't know for certain?? And neither do any of you.

But why should France, a Christian country, relegate her own culture and religion to that of everything else?

No, it's very simple and clear to me. If one moves to a Christian country, or an Islamic country for that matter, you must be expected to adopt or at the least respect the customs and culture of that country - and if you don't like it then move to a country that suits you better. I'm not arguing for Muslims to convert of course, and I wouldn't mind the Islamic symbol on a chain like that of a Cross - but when it comes to those ridiculous 15th century veils that they force their women to wear because the men are so insecure.... it's foul to see on western streets.

I don't ever remember this country or France being asked whether we wanted to abandon our culture/heritage and replace it with Islam/other and I don't see why France should have to pretend that her culture is equal to or worth the same as any other culture. It's damn well worth defending.

+rep anyway as I agree with the gist of your post, just thought i'd pick up on that part. :P

[Kardan]

We should follow in France's footsteps really, it'd be much safer and more beneficial for us - being that Muslim is our most 'active' religion which carries higher coverage of persons - there are also extremists (like in any religion) which appear to cause the biggest issues when they can escape undetected by wearing a Burka... I personally thought that would have been enough to ban anything hiding identity.

Of course we do not actually know, but it just seems like the likely option because of previous - more recent - attacks.
Obviously I could be wrong, which is why I say likely and not certainly - but we'll not know the full truth as everyone has too much to hide.

What does that mean?

[Hannah]

What does that mean?

By that I mean you will find more people actively supporting the Muslim religion than others - such as Christianity and Catholicism, etc.

[Kardan]

By that I mean you will find more people actively supporting the Muslim religion than others - such as Christianity and Catholicism, etc.

But you do realise that that is incorrect - at least in the UK?

And you do realise that Muslim isn't a religion?

[Hannah]

But you do realise that that is incorrect - at least in the UK?

And you do realise that Muslim isn't a religion?

Muslim are those who follow the set ideals and beliefs of Islam - they are those following the religion.
I'm sure you, as well as most others knew what was meant.

I don't believe there are statistics currently released since 2010/2011 to be more precise, but Christianity is certainly a dying religion in the UK while Islam continues to grow and thrive.

[Kardan]

Muslim are those who follow the set ideals and beliefs of Islam - they are those following the religion.
I'm sure you, as well as most others knew what was meant.

I don't believe there are statistics currently released since 2010/2011 to be more precise, but Christianity is certainly a dying religion in the UK while Islam continues to grow and thrive.

Indeed, but there's way way WAY more Christians in the country than Muslims.

[Hannah]

Indeed, but there's way way WAY more Christians in the country than Muslims.

How many of the said Christians actively go to church? Go on missions? Wear items of clothing representing their religion? Follow each and every rule of the Bible?

I look forward to statistics coming forward to see how much has changed - the number of Atheists has certainly grown, as well as the populace of other religions.

[scottish]

We are constantly lied to in order to save face, particularly when there is a high possibility that it is related to a religion which is finding itself spread rapidly throughout the UK.

I do not intend for this to sound racist, and I have no issue with religions people chose - but when they start implementing their rules which are accepted over our own because of the large amount of them - then I start having issues.

No, I am not saying all muslims are terrorists or extremists - but when our terrorism threat has been increased to severe - why the hell are they allowed to continue wearing Burkas which cover everything but their eyes when if you were to wear a crash helmet, hoodie and such you are asked to leave and treated like a criminal?

And the fact that they try to hide the religious background behind criminals like this to protect the people belonging to this religion, it' ridiculous.
Yes, before you say something about muslims needing protecting because they are treated unfairly because of their religion - if they don't like it then they can go somewhere that is more... muslim friendly.

Inb4racismaccusations

their rules are accepted over yours, how exactly? does your religion deem you must wear a hoodie and crash helmet whenever you're outdoors? no. just because some muslims turn into extremists doesn't mean the rest of them should be stripped of any religious beliefs for you to feel better at night..

not that removing burkhas is going to point out every terrorist anyway so what difference does that make..

no-one gets their religious backgrounnd hidden during incidents like this? they're literally always covering the newspapers stating what religion they are, the only time it's not is if they're christian etc. If you don't like the fact that the UK hosts a wide variety of religions then you can do somewhere that is more.. racist friendly.

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We should follow in France's footsteps really, it'd be much safer and more beneficial for us - being that Muslim is our most 'active' religion which carries higher coverage of persons - there are also extremists (like in any religion) which appear to cause the biggest issues when they can escape undetected by wearing a Burka... I personally thought that would have been enough to ban anything hiding identity.

Of course we do not actually know, but it just seems like the likely option because of previous - more recent - attacks.
Obviously I could be wrong, which is why I say likely and not certainly - but we'll not know the full truth as everyone has too much to hide.

muslim isn't our most active religion, Christianity is (33.2m people), followed by no religion (14.1m people), followed by Muslim (2.7m people).

how the hell are they escaping terrorism by wearing a Burka? lol

[buttons]

no-one gets their religious backgrounnd hidden during incidents like this? they're literally always covering the newspapers stating what religion they are, the only time it's not is if they're christian etc. If you don't like the fact that the UK hosts a wide variety of religions then you can do somewhere that is more.. racist friendly.that's true, if a christian murders someone for no reason, their religion will not be publicised. if a Muslim does it, this information is almost always included in news articles, most likely to cause further scaring. the guy from this particular murder has been revealed to be Muslim but he's also revealed to have been clearly mentally ill. his religion is not the cause here, it's his mental state but people will only see his religion and assume that's related.

[Kardan]

How many of the said Christians actively go to church? Go on missions? Wear items of clothing representing their religion? Follow each and every rule of the Bible?

I look forward to statistics coming forward to see how much has changed - the number of Atheists has certainly grown, as well as the populace of other religions.

Let's start with the basics:

Number of Christians: 31,479,876
Number of Muslims: 2,660,116

These numbers are from 2011.

For arguments sake, let's say EVERY SINGLE MUSLIM actively practices their religion. Each one actively go to Mosques, each one wears religious clothing, each one follows every single rule in the Qur'an etc.

Now, for Christians. Data from 2007 says that 15% of the country consider themselves 'regular churchgoers'. 2012 says that number has reduced to 12%. For arguments sake, let's say that those 12% of the country are all Christian (it's extremely likely that at least some of the people that said they regularly attend church didn't put themselves down as Christian in the census).

So 12% of the number of Christians turns out to be 3,777,585 people. This number is significantly lower than what it actually is (The 2007 data says that 15% of people regularly go to church, which is equivalent to 7.6m people, so to say 12% is 3.7m is a lot lower than it should be).

Of course, in reality, if we're counting people wearing religious items, then the number of Christians would shoot up.

So, we've taken the extreme upper bound for the number of Muslims (Saying that every single Muslim practices Islam), and for Christianity we've essentially taken the number of people that regularly go to church, but instead of taking that number of people from the whole country, we've only taken that from the number of Christians in the whole country.

So to sum it up, the actual number of people practicing Islam is likely to be lower, and the actual number of people practicing Christianity is likely to be higher, yet I still arrive at:

Muslims: 2,660,116
Christians: 3,777,585

So how is Islam more practised than Christianity in the UK?

[buttons]

yeah that's true too aiden, there are muslims out there who do out practice their religion. they smoke, drink, gamble and there are women who do not wear the burka or hijab as well. they often bring shame to their religion, like gay people etc would do to their christian parents.
its like that quote where Christians look down on the extremists, the westboro church. it's the same for muslims with their martyrs and terrorists. if u actually take the time out to talk to some muslims, they are normal and nice, having the same reaction to beheadings as we do.

[Kardan]

Also, I can see why people get up in arms about burkas, but there's nothing at all wrong with hijabs.

[-:Undertaker:-]

their rules are accepted over yours, how exactly? does your religion deem you must wear a hoodie and crash helmet whenever you're outdoors? no. just because some muslims turn into extremists doesn't mean the rest of them should be stripped of any religious beliefs for you to feel better at night..

not that removing burkhas is going to point out every terrorist anyway so what difference does that make..

no-one gets their religious backgrounnd hidden during incidents like this? they're literally always covering the newspapers stating what religion they are, the only time it's not is if they're christian etc. If you don't like the fact that the UK hosts a wide variety of religions then you can do somewhere that is more.. racist friendly.

Islam isn't a race.


how the hell are they escaping terrorism by wearing a Burka? lol

They're accepting third world behaviours and attitudes towards women by wearing burkhas, hence why their men cover them up because they are so insecure of their women. But burkhas aside, and extremist attitudes in the limelight... let's have a look.

British Muslims have zero tolerance of homosexuality: http://www.theguardian.com/uk/2009/may/07/muslims-britain-france-germany-homosexuality

British Muslims are increasingly engaging in arranged and multiple marriages: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-15032947

ICM Poll: 20% of British Muslims sympathize with 7/7 bombers
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1510866/Poll-reveals-40pc-of-Muslims-want-sharia-law-in-UK.html

NOP Research: 1 in 4 British Muslims say 7/7 bombings were justified
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2006/08/14/opinion/main1893879.shtml&date=2011-04-06
http://www.webcitation.org/5xkMGAEvY

Populus Poll (2006): 12% of young Muslims in Britain (and 12% overall) believe that suicide attacks against civilians in Britain can be justified. 1 in 4 support suicide attacks against British troops.
http://www.populuslimited.com/pdf/2006_02_07_times.pdf
http://www.danielpipes.org/blog/2005/07/more-survey-research-from-a-british-islamist

Populus Poll (2006): 16% of British Muslims believe suicide attacks against Israelis are justified.
37% believe Jews in Britain are a "legitimate target".
http://www.populuslimited.com/pdf/2006_02_07_times.pdf
http://www.danielpipes.org/blog/2005/07/more-survey-research-from-a-british-islamist

I could go on citing these polls and research, but it's pretty clear: I don't want any of that being acceptable in my country.


that's true, if a christian murders someone for no reason, their religion will not be publicised. if a Muslim does it, this information is almost always included in news articles, most likely to cause further scaring. the guy from this particular murder has been revealed to be Muslim but he's also revealed to have been clearly mentally ill. his religion is not the cause here, it's his mental state but people will only see his religion and assume that's related.

Well it's pretty obvious why, is it not? It seems to me that a lot of people such as yourself seem determined to pretend that all cultures are equal and all religions are equal, and that Islam is just as comparable to Christianity is. But that simply isn't the case and it's a delusion.

Anybody who knows the slightest thing about the history of Islam of the last 100 years can tell you that.

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yeah that's true too aiden, there are muslims out there who do out practice their religion. they smoke, drink, gamble and there are women who do not wear the burka or hijab as well. they often bring shame to their religion, like gay people etc would do to their christian parents.
its like that quote where Christians look down on the extremists, the westboro church. it's the same for muslims with their martyrs and terrorists. if u actually take the time out to talk to some muslims, they are normal and nice, having the same reaction to beheadings as we do.

Whilst it is true that there are extremists within both religions, it is a fallacy to pretend Christianity has the same scale of problems as Islam.

See some of the polling research I linked to.

[scottish]

The only worthwhile part of the post to reply to is;


They're accepting third world behaviours and attitudes towards women by wearing burkhas, hence why their men cover them up because they are so insecure of their women. But burkhas aside, and extremist attitudes in the limelight... let's have a look.

British Muslims have zero tolerance of homosexuality: http://www.theguardian.com/uk/2009/m...-homosexuality

British Muslims are increasingly engaging in arranged and multiple marriages: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-15032947

ICM Poll: 20% of British Muslims sympathize with 7/7 bombers
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukne...law-in-UK.html

NOP Research: 1 in 4 British Muslims say 7/7 bombings were justified
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2006/...ate=2011-04-06
http://www.webcitation.org/5xkMGAEvY

Populus Poll (2006): 12% of young Muslims in Britain (and 12% overall) believe that suicide attacks against civilians in Britain can be justified. 1 in 4 support suicide attacks against British troops.
http://www.populuslimited.com/pdf/2006_02_07_times.pdf
http://www.danielpipes.org/blog/2005...itish-islamist

I could go on citing these polls and research, but it's pretty clear: I don't want any of that being acceptable in my country.

I'm sure there's millions upon millions of people who have absolutely 0 tolerance of homosexuals, plenty of Christians included.

I don't see an issue with arranged marriages? Multiple marriages isn't something I believe in but if they do so be it.

A whole 20%? Let's kill them all now then how dare they.

As per above

You go from proper news websites to some blog and a website that doesn't exist?

[Kardan]

I mean, 2005/6 may seem recent, but that's 8/9 years ago now.

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And Undertaker, you use 'British Muslims have zero tolerance on homosexuality' as one of your points, but it's perfectly fine when Christians have zero tolerance on homosexuality and start denying gays access to hotel rooms etc?

[-:Undertaker:-]

I'm sure there's millions upon millions of people who have absolutely 0 tolerance of homosexuals, plenty of Christians included.

Are you making the claim that British Christians are as intolerant of homosexuality as British muslims are?

Again with the stupid comparison between Christianity and Islam.


I don't see an issue with arranged marriages? Multiple marriages isn't something I believe in but if they do so be it.

You don't see an issue with arranged marriages?

And here I thought we were in the 21st century, and instead you'll go back to the 18th century to defend this religion. Incredible.


A whole 20%? Let's kill them all now then how dare they?

Well what do you make of that finding? Go on, i'm interested.

Do you find it worrying? Acceptable? Great?


You go from proper news websites to some blog and a website that doesn't exist?

I can assure you the polls are genuine, it appears Populus have taken web pages down to older polls or have changed the urls.

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I mean, 2005/6 may seem recent, but that's 8/9 years ago now.

I would guess it is even worse now considering the numbers, as well as the spread of Wahabbai Islam.


And Undertaker, you use 'British Muslims have zero tolerance on homosexuality' as one of your points, but it's perfectly fine when Christians have zero tolerance on homosexuality and start denying gays access to hotel rooms etc?

Again, another stupid comparison - you're comparing one unique case of a couple who politely turned away a gay couple (agree with it or not) with the polling finding that British muslims have zero tolerance towards homosexuality.

That's like dragging up Westboro in response to the poll findings..... it's absurd.

[Kardan]

I think it's pretty obvious that there is more than one Christian couple in the whole of the UK that doesn't agree with homosexuality. It's also pretty obvious that every single Muslim doesn't have a 'zero tolerance' policy on homosexuality.

In my books, they're both as bad as each other. And quite frankly, I think you'll find more Christians in the UK against homosexuality than Muslims in the UK against homosexuality :P

[scottish]

Do you have any evidence to persuade me otherwise?

I don't see an issue with arranged marriages. It has 0 effect on your life so why should you feel the need to poke your nose into other peoples business and religion to find fault with it?

I'm sure if a poll existed for Christians having zero tolerance towards homosexuality the figures would be about the same. Then outside of Christians groups the 'no religion' people will also have quite a few people who have zero tolerance towards homosexuality. It's not isolated to one religion.

[-:Undertaker:-]

I think it's pretty obvious that there is more than one Christian couple in the whole of the UK that doesn't agree with homosexuality. It's also pretty obvious that every single Muslim doesn't have a 'zero tolerance' policy on homosexuality.

Who said either?

I'm making the case, using polling, showing that out of British muslims nearly all have a overwhelming zero tolerance approach to homosexuality... which is not true for Christianity. Whilst Christians will be more likely to object to homosexuality than say non-believers, it's also true to say that Christianity in Britain is much much much much much more accepting than Islam in the UK.

Now, do you dispute this and pretend they're still as bad as one another or what?


In my books, they're both as bad as each other.

Really?


And quite frankly, I think you'll find more Christians in the UK against homosexuality than Muslims in the UK against homosexuality :P

Because there's more Christians....

I thought you did a maths degree? Surely you can understand ratios?

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Do you have any evidence to persuade me otherwise?

I don't see an issue with arranged marriages. It has 0 effect on your life so why should you feel the need to poke your nose into other peoples business and religion to find fault with it?

Because I care about the rights of women in my country, that's why.


I'm sure if a poll existed for Christians having zero tolerance towards homosexuality the figures would be about the same. Then outside of Christians groups the 'no religion' people will also have quite a few people who have zero tolerance towards homosexuality. It's not isolated to one religion.

Wrong actually.

http://www.brin.ac.uk/figures/attitudes-towards-gay-rights/
http://www.ipsos-mori.com/researchpublications/researcharchive/2921/Religious-and-Social-Attitudes-of-UK-Christians-in-2011.aspx

I could have told you that without even looking at a poll because it's so damned obvious.

Or you can read a comparison of the polling of Christian vs Muslims attitudes of homosexuality via here: http://4freedoms.com/group/maps/forum/topics/attitudes-to-homosexuality-2-surveys-contrasting-muslims-with which contrasts numerous polls on the subject.

[scottish]

The poll you've given me shows the people who answered this question;

'About sexual relation between two adults of the same sex. Do you think it is always wrong, almost always wrong, wrong only sometimes or not wrong at all?

37.4% of Anglican, 41.2% of Catholic, 47% of other Christian, 20.5% of No Religion stated 'always wrong' or 'almost always wrong'


A poll of British Muslims suggests that almost half say they are proud of the country’s stance on gay rights.

According to the research by think-tank Demos, 47 per cent of Muslims agreed with the statement: “I am proud of how Britain treats gay people.”

This figure was slightly higher than the average and just higher than the 46.5 per cent of Christians who agreed with the statement.

[Kardan]

Also, just reading up on the 'zero tolerance on homosexuality from British Muslims', that poll says that only 70% of British Muslims consider religion an active part of their life, so I guess that adds to my 'There are more active Christians than active Muslims' statement from earlier.

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Probably also worth noting that that poll was carried out by the organisation that said Romney would win the US election the night before it was held :P

[-:Undertaker:-]

The poll you've given me shows the people who answered this question;

'About sexual relation between two adults of the same sex. Do you think it is always wrong, almost always wrong, wrong only sometimes or not wrong at all?

37.4% of Anglican, 41.2% of Catholic, 47% of other Christian, 20.5% of No Religion stated 'always wrong' or 'almost always wrong'


A poll of British Muslims suggests that almost half say they are proud of the country’s stance on gay rights.

According to the research by think-tank Demos, 47 per cent of Muslims agreed with the statement: “I am proud of how Britain treats gay people.”

This figure was slightly higher than the average and just higher than the 46.5 per cent of Christians who agreed with the statement.

That poll which you cite from Demos (and I would like to see the data on that seeing as it is a political thinktank which isn't a member of the British Polling Council as far as I am aware, and apparently according to the blogsphere that poll included a sample of mainly non-muslims Britons) seems to be completely out of step with all the other polling taken on the subject, including respected pollsters such as Gallup and Ipsos Mori.

Even the Guardian published it: http://www.theguardian.com/uk/2009/may/07/muslims-britain-france-germany-homosexuality

All I am saying with all this polling to you is that you and others do Islam and moderate muslims who are trying to reform the faith from within no favours by pretending that Islam has the same problems as Christianity. Because that simply isn't true.

- - - Updated - - -


Also, just reading up on the 'zero tolerance on homosexuality from British Muslims', that poll says that only 70% of British Muslims consider religion an active part of their life, so I guess that adds to my 'There are more active Christians than active Muslims' statement from earlier.

Ratios, ratios, ratios.


Probably also worth noting that that poll was carried out by the organisation that said Romney would win the US election the night before it was held :P

Gallup is one of the world's most respected pollsters, in such a tight race that is to be expected. Margin of error is 3%-/+ usually.

[Kardan]

So how come every other major polling company had Obama winning? :P

[scottish]

Obama won by 3.9% didn't he, so the +/-3% is off by 0.9%

[Hannah]

To make this easy on the eyes, I'll remove quoting unless necessary - but will reply. :)

scottish on the front of the Burka vs. hoodies and crash helmets, etc. it is considered that these items should be removed for security reasons as so that if a crime was to occur involving this person, they can be identified - how can you identify anyone by their eyes alone? So while it may be religion, the Burka removes all definitive features of any one person wearing it which as a consequence makes them increasingly hard to prosecute without true identification.

Of course I don't believe that they should be stripped of any of their religions, just that we should not have things banned for a reason of safety, while they can continue to cover their identity because people are too scared to step on politically correct toes.

It was only recently revealed that the guy who committed the beheading was a converted Muslim, that was initially hidden though hinted at thanks to their 'is not terrorist activity'.

I have no issue with the fact that we host several ethnicities and cultures, in fact if people are to come over here and work better than those originating from here then why shouldn't they be here? They're doing us a favour. As I stated before, the thing I have an issue with is what is stated above. Why does their religion exempt them from rules that are in place to protect the community?

Last year, a young male suspected of terrorist activity disguised himself in a Burka and escaped the police who came to arrest him. Of course, they couldn't find him because all he had on show was his eyes - and it would certainly be rude and unacceptable to ask all of the people in Burkas to remove it so they could stop a terrorist from attacking!

Kardan so your statistics of

Muslims: 2,660,116
Christians: 3,777,585
though unlikely, are still based on statistics given three years ago.

Also, Hijabs - nothing is really mentioned regarding them because while they are still covering the female, they are not covering everything but their eyes and therefore are not stopping any identification. It isn't the Hijab causing an issue - it's losing the face of each and everyone of them who is covering themselves entirely.

[scottish]

To make this easy on the eyes, I'll remove quoting unless necessary - but will reply. :)

scottish on the front of the Burka vs. hoodies and crash helmets, etc. it is considered that these items should be removed for security reasons as so that if a crime was to occur involving this person, they can be identified - how can you identify anyone by their eyes alone? So while it may be religion, the Burka removes all definitive features of any one person wearing it which as a consequence makes them increasingly hard to prosecute without true identification.

Of course I don't believe that they should be stripped of any of their religions, just that we should not have things banned for a reason of safety, while they can continue to cover their identity because people are too scared to step on politically correct toes.

It was only recently revealed that the guy who committed the beheading was a converted Muslim, that was initially hidden though hinted at thanks to their 'is not terrorist activity'.

I have no issue with the fact that we host several ethnicities and cultures, in fact if people are to come over here and work better than those originating from here then why shouldn't they be here? They're doing us a favour. As I stated before, the thing I have an issue with is what is stated above. Why does their religion exempt them from rules that are in place to protect the community?

Last year, a young male suspected of terrorist activity disguised himself in a Burka and escaped the police who came to arrest him. Of course, they couldn't find him because all he had on show was his eyes - and it would certainly be rude and unacceptable to ask all of the people in Burkas to remove it so they could stop a terrorist from attacking!

Kardan so your statistics of

though unlikely, are still based on statistics given three years ago.

Also, Hijabs - nothing is really mentioned regarding them because while they are still covering the female, they are not covering everything but their eyes and therefore are not stopping any identification. It isn't the Hijab causing an issue - it's losing the face of each and everyone of them who is covering themselves entirely.

There's a MASSIVE difference between going into a bank with a crash helmet on and going in with a religious piece of clothing on.

It was never hidden? They never knew the suspects name, let alone religious background at the time of saying it wasn't a religiously motivated beheading. and it still isn't, the fact he's muslim means nothing, the fact he's mentally ill means everything. He didn't follow his religion as it stated he gambled and done various other things that are strictly against it.

If Christians had a religious belief of wearing something over their head, that would be perfectly acceptable, however due to it being a religion that's 'came here' then it's suddenly not?

[Kyle]

How many crimes have Been committed so far by unidentified individuals wearing burkas I wonder


~~from phone

[scottish]

How many crimes have Been committed so far by unidentified individuals wearing burkas I wonder


~~from phone

0, only time I've heard about it is someone wearing one to avoid capture, not used it when committing.

[Hannah]

There's a MASSIVE difference between going into a bank with a crash helmet on and going in with a religious piece of clothing on.

It was never hidden? They never knew the suspects name, let alone religious background at the time of saying it wasn't a religiously motivated beheading. and it still isn't, the fact he's muslim means nothing, the fact he's mentally ill means everything. He didn't follow his religion as it stated he gambled and done various other things that are strictly against it.

If Christians had a religious belief of wearing something over their head, that would be perfectly acceptable, however due to it being a religion that's 'came here' then it's suddenly not?

Why is there a huge difference? Either way their identity is hidden so how does that make any difference?
Is someone in a Burka not going to hold up a bank while someone who has just stepped off of a motorbike will?

Also, if Christians had a headdress which hid their identity it would be the exact same. While being politically correct with all that bullcrap they would be allowed - however in actuality - religion is just a belief, and therefore whether for your belief or not, hiding your identity should be the same, Muslim, Christian, Catholic, Jewish, whatever, or not.

In fact, wearing the Burka covers your identity, as does a crash helmet and such. Why on Earth does religion say whether we can be safe in the knowledge that criminals can be identified in the case that a crime is committed?

Well, if I go to commit a crime I know what I'll be wearing! :rolleyes:

[scottish]

Why is there a huge difference? Either way their identity is hidden so how does that make any difference?
Is someone in a Burka not going to hold up a bank while someone who has just stepped off of a motorbike will?

Also, if Christians had a headdress which hid their identity it would be the exact same. While being politically correct with all that bullcrap they would be allowed - however in actuality - religion is just a belief, and therefore whether for your belief or not, hiding your identity should be the same, Muslim, Christian, Catholic, Jewish, whatever, or not.

In fact, wearing the Burka covers your identity, as does a crash helmet and such. Why on Earth does religion say whether we can be safe in the knowledge that criminals can be identified in the case that a crime is committed?

Well, if I go to commit a crime I know what I'll be wearing! :rolleyes:

Because if you want into a bank wearing a motorbike helmet then you're most likely doing it to hide your identity, not to keep your head safe while riding your motorbike in the bank...

A religious piece of clothing is completely different.

As Kardan stated, how many people have actually committed a crime with a Burka? I'd like to see those statistics.

Please do commit a crime wearing a Burka, it'll push the 'people who commited a crime wearing a Burka' statistic to 1 and we'll get rid of you for quite a while depending on the severity of the crime.

[Hannah]

Because if you want into a bank wearing a motorbike helmet then you're most likely doing it to hide your identity, not to keep your head safe while riding your motorbike in the bank...

A religious piece of clothing is completely different.

As Kardan stated, how many people have actually committed a crime with a Burka? I'd like to see those statistics.

Please do commit a crime wearing a Burka, it'll push the 'people who commited a crime wearing a Burka' statistic to 1 and we'll get rid of you for quite a while depending on the severity of the crime.

You're so pleasant!

But there have been several crimes committed by people wearing a Burka - simply Googling will bring up several results.
Whether they are Muslims wearing Burkas or people wearing Burkas purely because it is the same as wearing a balaclava - there have been crimes committed wearing them.

Not all people wear Burkas for religious reasons, which you don't seem to see.

[scottish]

You're so pleasant!

But there have been several crimes committed by people wearing a Burka - simply Googling will bring up several results.
Whether they are Muslims wearing Burkas or people wearing Burkas purely because it is the same as wearing a balaclava - there have been crimes committed wearing them.

Not all people wear Burkas for religious reasons, which you don't seem to see.

Of course other people will wear them, when people wear motorbike helmets to rob a bank, not all of them ride motorbikes.

You're trying to strip people of their religious beliefs, because some guy might stick one on and attempt to commit a crime.

[Hannah]

Of course other people will wear them, when people wear motorbike helmets to rob a bank, not all of them ride motorbikes.

You're trying to strip people of their religious beliefs, because some guy might stick one on and attempt to commit a crime.

What is stopping them wearing a Hijab? Something which shows their face but allows them to conceal the rest of themselves, while still representing religious faith and modesty? They can be identified, they are still covered and not being 'stripped of their religious beliefs' as you claim.

[Kardan]

What is stopping them wearing a Hijab? Something which shows their face but allows them to conceal the rest of themselves, while still representing religious faith and modesty? They can be identified, they are still covered and not being 'stripped of their religious beliefs' as you claim.

So why do France feel the need to restrict the wearing of hijabs in certain places? I feel that France are a bit too strict.

[GommeInc]

0, only time I've heard about it is someone wearing one to avoid capture, not used it when committing.
There have been a few. This one was on the news in 2012 that I remember:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-manchester-18678522

There was one involving a man who wore a burka and then strangled his estranged wife:
http://www.torontosun.com/2014/03/05/burka-killer-sentenced-to-life-behind-bars (Canadian case)

Depends how you see capture and committing. He committed the crime wearing the burka but also the avoid capture :P


So why do France feel the need to restrict the wearing of hijabs in certain places? I feel that France are a bit too strict.
Forced cultural protection. France is very protective of its culture and Islam simply doesn't fit in with core French values, and definitely not wearing religious garbs (unless you're a nun or monk that helps make wine). It's strict but makes sense to them and in a way is entirely agreeable.

It is sometimes justified by being against signs of oppression towards women where women are made to cover up. That, and for crime prevention reasons where hiding that much of your face is unacceptable although they seem happy with cycle helmets so there's only so far you can go with that argument.