should addicts be given free/inexpensive needles?

[buttons]

do you think addicts should be given free needles to avoid diseases such as HIV/AIDS and hepatitis?

you can find out about it here: http://www.avert.org/needle-exchange.htm

personally i'm all for it. don't know much about it but making someone with more knowledge can give us some insight.

[FlyingJesus]

Yeah we have a few places down here that do it. Aside from obviously keeping the users safer it means everyone around them is safer too, and making it a more public/open situation makes it easier for help programs and such to reach the people who need them

[-:Undertaker:-]

Absolutely NOT. Why should taxpayers, many being taxed to the hilt whilst trying to support their families, be forced to pay for the drug kits of what are mostly selfish criminals who also commit crime to feed their disgusting habit? If charities (VOLUNTARY) want to be stupid enough to help junkies and give them free needles then that's fine by me, but not a penny of taxpayer money should go towards them.

The next step in this insane logic is to hand the druggies free drugs because at least its 'safe' and hasn't been mixed.

[Empired]

Absolutely NOT. Why should taxpayers, many being taxed to the hilt whilst trying to support their families, be forced to pay for the drug kits of what are mostly selfish criminals who also commit crime to feed their disgusting habit? If charities (VOLUNTARY) want to be stupid enough to help junkies and give them free needles then that's fine by me, but not a penny of taxpayer money should go towards them.

The next step in this insane logic is to hand the druggies free drugs because at least its 'safe' and hasn't been mixed.
I assume you'd also say they should be made to pay every time they go into a hospital infected because of using an infected needle or because of an OD? Because surely we'd be paying for their treatment if they go into a hospital as well. Or at least we are in the UK.

I honestly have no idea what to think about this issue. I can see serious pros and cons to both sides of the argument and hop backwards and forwards with my opinion.

[-:Undertaker:-]

I assume you'd also say they should be made to pay every time they go into a hospital infected because of using an infected needle or because of an OD? Because surely we'd be paying for their treatment if they go into a hospital as well. Or at least we are in the UK.

I honestly have no idea what to think about this issue. I can see serious pros and cons to both sides of the argument and hop backwards and forwards with my opinion.

As I ideally support private healthcare I agree with having people pay for their own healthcare (and pay more if they have an unhealthy lifestyle, ie overweight/drug use/alcoholic) as I think people who look after themselves ought to be rewarded. But that is another issue.

Where does this stop? As I said, provide free needles and you're on the path of providing free drugs. Why should bad behaviour be normalised?

If people want to worry about others, start by worrying about people being refused life-saving cancer drugs despite having paid taxes all of their lives and having been upstanding subjects throughout their lives - worry about them and not the criminal junkies who'd steal your underwear if you weren't looking.

[FlyingJesus]

The next step in this insane logic is to hand the druggies free drugs because at least its 'safe' and hasn't been mixed.

This does also happen

[-:Undertaker:-]

This does also happen

Indeed, which is why to avoid the slippery slope you reject anything like it from the start.

[FlyingJesus]

Even though it happens because the people would literally die if they didn't

[-:Undertaker:-]

Even though it happens because the people would literally die if they didn't

They risk dying by taking drugs in the first place and injecting their veins with dirty needles. It's not the hand of God which injects them with dirty needles, it is they themselves who do so... who then leave them laying around parks and in bushes where children play. Absolutely disgusting practice.

[FlyingJesus]

If they leave them laying around in bushes then they don't get clean needles, it's an exchange. I don't think anyone's condoning heroin abuse, just agreeing that helping addicts to not die and potentially get the help they desperately need is rather nice

[RandomManJay]

An interesting idea.

On the one hand it could be argued that such a system would only be a drain on the country's economy in an area which both avoids and hinders economic growth. Also given the drugs used would most likely be illegal for the time being, it could infer that the government is contributing to and encouraging drug abuse instead of actually tackling the problem.

The flipside to this however is if it can reduce incidence of STI's and other drug related conditions/illnesses, the budget devoted to the resulting treatments could be better allocated to other concerns (it would also be interesting to see if such a potential saving could exceed the costs of a service like this being introduced). Also encouraging abusers to actually return the needles is an interesting way of getting them out of the environment where they could cause even more harm; and if its free, abusers may see it as a cheaper and safer way of maintaining their addiction (although I wouldn't really want them to see it like that, but it could be a way of getting them into an environment where they can actually receive advice and information, and be encouraged to actually get off the drugs).

It could also be argued that providing such a service would encourage abusers to come forward, and remove the barrier of criminality which may hold some abusers in the dark, refusing assistance for what they may fear could happen to them in the criminal justice system. And who knows, it could encourage the drug culture to shift, and instead on hindering the "war of drugs", abusers could assist in the political and legal effort to cease it. However at the same time, it may be an incentive for abusers not to come forward as their details could be recorded in order to receive the needles, which could potentially be used against them in future.

I could waffle on further, but I think trialling it as a potential initiative is what I would probably go for, as although it seems to have some merit according the link provided in the initial post, the uncertainties could suggest it be quite damning if it fails. But anything which could be used as a tool for reducing such a problem in our society, without instantly turning to a criminal perspective, should be at least considered critically.

[Jssy]

Absolutely NOT. Why should taxpayers, many being taxed to the hilt whilst trying to support their families, be forced to pay for the drug kits of what are mostly selfish criminals who also commit crime to feed their disgusting habit? If charities (VOLUNTARY) want to be stupid enough to help junkies and give them free needles then that's fine by me, but not a penny of taxpayer money should go towards them.

The next step in this insane logic is to hand the druggies free drugs because at least its 'safe' and hasn't been mixed.
I personally think its a good idea, the cost to the taxpayer will be MUCH higher for admitting people to hospital after being infected with diseases and the treatment that is needed. It is NOT about feeding a disgusting habit as its not giving them the drugs? and its not encouraging users to continue to take drugs, but it means they have the support if they need it, plus making the environment a much safer place, for them and for the general public who are at risk of used needles. Where I live someone had stuffed a needle down the side of a bus seat and a little girl had *****ed her hand on it.

[Empired]

I personally think its a good idea, the cost to the taxpayer will be MUCH higher for admitting people to hospital after being infected with diseases and the treatment that is needed. It is NOT about feeding a disgusting habit as its not giving them the drugs? and its not encouraging users to continue to take drugs, but it means they have the support if they need it, plus making the environment a much safer place, for them and for the general public who are at risk of used needles. Where I live someone had stuffed a needle down the side of a bus seat and a little girl had *****ed her hand on it.
Yeah this makes sense. It's like you can get free contraception at clinics even when you're underage. It doesn't really promote underage sex, it just promotes safe sex.

But omg that poor girl :(

[Jssy]

Yeah this makes sense. It's like you can get free contraception at clinics even when you're underage. It doesn't really promote underage sex, it just promotes safe sex.

But omg that poor girl :(
Yeah exactly, like I know there are illnesses such as cancer, but surely it is a positive if one less child gets stabbed from a needle. The parents were worrying so much because you can have a HIV test but it doesn't always show up straight away you have to keep repeating the tests over the months and then you have to worry about Hepatitis too.

[GommeInc]

Unless it is actually helping to wean them off of the drugs then it's a lost cause, really. It's an okay idea but if it costs too much and isn't helping them in the long term, then they may as well stop and find an alternative method. Otherwise, it is just keeping the problem sustained and on-going rather than thinking about the long-term implications - how to make sure new patients are not seen entering by making sure this scheme does not create new drug takers relying on it in the future.

To ultimate cure the issue they need to see where these abusers are coming from and how to put a stop to it, rather than just look after them when they enter the door. They may as well kill or cure it, rather than leave it to fester. If you have a fire, you don't just attempt to extinguish the embers, you extinguish the actual fire.

[Lewis]

I'd rather pay to find them and imprison them than pay for them to continue walking the streets with clean needles for their drug issues.

Although it could help a little, I agree, I do think it's an idea that won't lead to much and simply be a waste of money.

[James]

I think it could be turned around quite well.
"Apply for your clean needles"
People apply
You know who is buying/selling drugs and you can do something about it. Whether it's arrest them or send them to care.

[Kyle]

I'd rather pay to find them and imprison them than pay for them to continue walking the streets with clean needles for their drug issues.

Although it could help a little, I agree, I do think it's an idea that won't lead to much and simply be a waste of money.

What benefit do you feel that the prison system offers drug addicts?


~~from phone

[Lewis]

What benefit do you feel that the prison system offers drug addicts?


~~from phone

It'd benefit the non-drug addicts more than the drug addicts. Keep the streets cleaner and safer. Who knows what some of these people will do to gain their needs of drugs, clean needles isn't going to exactly solve that.

[RandomManJay]

It's pretty much the system we have now, and it isn't exactly working as a deterrent or assisting in prevention, otherwise initiatives like this wouldn't be cropping up.

A portion of the tax payer's money already goes to the prison system, unless the government turns to full privatisation. And some could argue that it's already failing (with overcrowding and such) so funnelling more money into it isn't going to solve the problem, only delay its inevitable collapse. Also you can only imprison for life with those who are proven guilty for production and supplying. Other than that with simple possession a person can only be held for a maximum of seven years. So in reality it's a system designed to handle only one part of the drug culture, but lumps the victims in along with it. And the problem there is these addicts will only end up back in the public again. Maybe they will have kicked their addiction by then, but then again maybe not.

The more I look into it, the idea of giving free needles isn't going to stop drug addicts, but in the short term it's providing a safer alternative to what it's happening now. Instead of treating these people like hardened criminals who want nothing more than to dismantle the foundations of our society, we treat them like actual human beings and actually try to help them escape from the culture they're now enthralled in.

It reminds me a lot of the condom campaigns, which aren't there to stop people having sex, but to have sex safely. And while you can argue that it isn't the same cause you aren't really meant to take these drugs under the current laws, the principle is the same. If you can't stop them, at least help them do it safely.

I think in the long term, initiatives like this will be used as a gateway for more professional and preventative help to be implemented. But in our society who's to say in the end it will be remembered as anything other than an expensive and failed attempt.


It'd benefit the non-drug addicts more than the drug addicts. Keep the streets cleaner and safer. Who knows what some of these people will do to gain their needs of drugs, clean needles isn't going to exactly solve that.

[Vaniloquence]

Addiction can be seen by many people as something very frowned upon and is very negatively seen which in many ways it should be. Personally I view addiction as more of a disease and something a person has really lost control over. I think this is quite a positive thing as addiction isn't something that can be stopped/cured with a click of the fingers and can be a very long process with many people losing the battle or constantly fighting it. If this can aid people to also not gain/spread diseases and promote safety then why not? Yes we may view what they are doing as bad but should we really be stepping back and letting them potentially get these diseases when we can quite easily avoid them altogether.