Action Plan

[Inseriousity.]

Last year, I made a feedback thread for senior management, requesting an action plan. Despite reassurances that it would be forthcoming, general management have continued to be snooty about this idea. For that reason, I am making this thread again on the anniversary of the last thread. Last time, the thread tended to focus on the ideas I suggested so this time, I will focus on the reasons why I think we should have 1.

AGM work is project-based

If you've ever wondered what an AGM actually does, the day-to-day work of an AGM is rather sparse. You talk to managers, maybe a bit of admin here and there, send out PMs if there are any issues that need addressing. 90% of AGM work though is about working on projects. Either brand new ideas that take planning and systems designed that'll make it appealing to whoever it's targeted towards (staff, members, particular forums etc) or reinventing/redesigning things already in place or preparing for new big events that are coming up. Naturally, these projects take time and sometimes you'll be working on it alone (although to be fair to current general management team, they seem to work more like a team nowadays). The problem with this is that it can breed laziness. If no-one knows you're working on something and it becomes too difficult then it is easy to lay it one side and "come back to it later" with the inevitable consequence that it never gets done. With an action plan, the public will know the rough idea of what projects general management are working on so it adds accountability to these projects. If something isn't done then the public will know and they can ask for an explanation as to what has stalled it.

The feedback forum is not a pack of vultures

Which brings me neatly to paragraph 2. I believe a huge reason why this action plan has not been released is two-fold. One of the reasons is that I think there's a perception that the feedback forum is vicious and it is best not to do anything that can give them a reason to moan and rant. Writing down a plan then not following through on it means you open yourself up to scrutiny. However, I believe the characterisation of the feedback forum is rather unfair. There is evidence to suggest that Habbox members will commend a trier even if the idea doesn't work out (see first achievements system feedback thread for an example of this, myself excluded). Members got more critical of the idea later on when there wasn't much progress being done to improve it. Perhaps if they knew what was going on "behind the scenes", they'd be more forgiving. If an idea stalls or, for whatever reason, isn't released according to plan, I do not think members would swoop in like vultures and tear off your limbs. I reckon they'd ask for the reasons why and then suggest ideas that might then provide the lightbulb moment that allows the AGM to continue with it rather than the usual "ah it's too difficult" where it vanishes into the back of the AGM's head, never to be seen again.

Lack of ideas

Another reason is that there may be a lack of ideas so posting an action plan would expose that there isn't a huge list of ideas/projects to work through. I believe the action plan has been misinterpreted so I'll post what I think would be suitable.

General management works on projects.
The action plan lists those projects (not each department manager, just general management as I believe it's here where these projects are able to be most radical and also as a result more likely to fall to the wayside). Maybe 3-4 projects per general management a quarter.
Every quarter, a new action plan is posted with the results of the previous 1 (along with an honest explanation as to why any projects on the plan did not work out).
Community can share their input and see if any failed projects could be revived.

I sincerely hope no-one thinks an average of a project a month is a huge burden.

Got to keep everything a secret

There's also the belief that you've got to keep everything secret from the community because it means they're surprised when something brand new is released. It's true that ideas have a "novelty factor" that needs to be taken into account where members will flock to it because it's something new. However, if an idea dies because it's a secret then we'll never know if it could've brought long-term benefits to the community. It might've failed and no-one gives a toss about them (I've had plenty of those ideas: Radio plays, Habbox Trade Team) but we'd never know because it was never brought to the public's attention. Basically, you don't have to keep everything a secret. When I say 'projects', I don't mean events, for instance. I mean the projects designed to be long-term or permanent so events could still be a surprise as they only provide a short-term benefit. If members knew about projects, they'd be able to help and that accountability would probably provide a kick up the butt to general management to work through obstacles and get the idea in place. Who knows how many good ideas that might've been perfect for Habbox's revival have fallen by the wayside because we just don't know about them?

Habbox needs radical action

Radical ideas are difficult. It's so much easier to tinker round the edges rather than work on an idea that'll change Habbox with no guarantee that it'll even work. I believe strongly that while I wouldn't say Habbox is dying, I believe it's lack of any sort of plan will slowly strip away its userbase. I also do not believe that bureaucratic changes to Habbox are the answer (and is often the easier option that AGMs, managers and sometimes even members come to). Yes, you may merge, close, have a radical overhaul of staff roles or keep changing the rules but ultimately, Habbox needs new people to take the place of the older ones and to do that, you need to provide services that appeal to them and keep them coming back. There were 106 events in October 2014 compared to 214 the previous year. This steady decline of activity on Habbo will ultimately mean Habbox will struggle to attract new users. I believe that's why the projects that AGMs work on are so important and why we should not be so careless to let them be thrown away.

This is why we need an action plan.

[-:Undertaker:-]

Plans are usually doomed to fail, or take too long or aren't possible. I can see why General Management want to avoid such schemes (usually paragraphs full of writing and nothing else) as would I. If V7 is the main problem in whatever departments/people want moving forwards, why not simply have the forum fundraise via VIP payments to pay somebody (non-Habbo) to design us a new site with new features? That would be my idea.

Avoid big plans/projects, they rarely work and usually just suck the motivation out of people.

[lawrawrrr]

Skimmed thread. We're not lazy and have all made radical changes since we've been in the role. We discuss things with each other, managers and select staff until it becomes public. As far as I'm concerned, that's not going to change.

A lot of our bigger plans are halted or delayed because of staff leaving or generally being not great (v7 delay, etc) so publishing a schedule would just open us to more ridicule when it's not our fault.

Plans are that for a reason - we don't say exactly what we're doing for the same reason you kept Hunger Games on the DL until it came out - so it's exciting when it does!

I'll reply fully to other bits later but suffice it to say I have my own list and schedule which you may call a "action plan" but it will not be published to the public.


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[Inseriousity.]

I disagree completely. Habbox needs ideas. Projects are what moves Habbox forwards, what it needs to do to attract new people or reenergise older members, and it wouldn't need a huge ton of writing. In fact, that's another myth about the action plan. Here is how it could look (I'm going to use ideas we've had implemented or tried):

Habbox Action Plan: Q1

Chris

- Achievements System
- Staff Challenges

Laura

The Box

Shoned

Official Rooms - Habbox Hallway

We wouldn't need huge detail on it. If someone wants to, they could easily ask. Here's how the next plan 4 months later would look:

Habbox Action Plan: Q2.

Chris

Achievements System
Didn't go to plan due to massive admin work needed to run it.
Staff Challenges
New idea here

Laura

The Box
New idea here

Shoned

Official Rooms - Habbox Hallway
Didn't quite go to plan because rooms did not advertise as requested.
New idea here

It'll be ideas they'll be already working on so it's not exactly anything new they wouldn't be doing anyway.

- - - Updated - - -

When you have fully read it, you'll understand I had counter-arguments to all your points there :)

[Sho]

Hey Official Rooms is still being worked on :( I forgot to get my tele back from Matt when the HxHD moved so there hasn't been anything to link anyone to the room, but I'm getting that sorted tonight. Some of the rooms have been getting popular, especially the DJ room. I came on at 6am before work and it had 30 people in so some rooms do advertise and get people in, some don't so I'm going to have to re-look at it. I'm also going to increase the adversing of the rooms on our end too and that idea should kick off soon.

There are a couple of things I'm working on regarding increasing community presence. Nothing huge and big that will bring in thousands of new users straight away, but little things that will increase advertising and hopefully capture the interest of people. Not going to list all my ideas because everything is all jumbled up on my notepad between ideas for the community and two events that I'm currently planning, but you'll see some happening within the next few days and others not so soon.

I'm working on things but I can't be working on them 24/7 as some things pop up and I have to drop everything to work on those as they have a strict deadline (fansite events, for example) :P.

[David]

why not simply have the forum fundraise via VIP payments to pay somebody (non-Habbo) to design us a new site with new features? That would be my idea.

I said similar in the christmas charity thread and they thought i was joking. (http://www.habboxforum.com/showthread.php?t=815694&p=8280452#post8280452)

[lRhyss]

Plans are usually doomed to fail, or take too long or aren't possible. I can see why General Management want to avoid such schemes (usually paragraphs full of writing and nothing else) as would I. If V7 is the main problem in whatever departments/people want moving forwards, why not simply have the forum fundraise via VIP payments to pay somebody (non-Habbo) to design us a new site with new features? That would be my idea.

Avoid big plans/projects, they rarely work and usually just suck the motivation out of people.
What? Why do you think me, Calum, Drew and another special person have a job here? That's what we're currently working on salvaging/building. Slow moving at the moment due to Assignments/Mock Exams but yeah.

Why does everyone still overlook the site coders :'(

[David]

What? Why do you think me, Calum, Drew and another special person have a job here? That's what we're currently working on salvaging/building. Slow moving at the moment due to Assignments/Mock Exams but yeah.

for all the coders that have been working on it, it's still 2 years past the release date? a little professional help wouldn't hurt.

[lRhyss]

for all the coders that have been working on it, it's still 2 years past the release date? a little professional help wouldn't hurt.
It's not our fault it's 2 years past the release date, we've just recently been taken on when Chris was appointed GM. Although we're all really busy until about the 8th of December (Hand ins/Exams), we're still making progress... Profesional Help is not needed, especially since the Habbox Charity VIP money goes to a REAL charity to help people, not get a Habbo Fansite Version finished.

[scottish]

I don't think undertaker is talking about make the charity one for it, he means a limited time VIP which goes towards a proper coder.

[lRhyss]

I don't think undertaker is talking about make the charity one for it, he means a limited time VIP which goes towards a proper coder.
Apologies then, I miss read the OP. But still, with what Habbox makes and spends on keeping the site up per month, It's really not a wise choice to hire a "professional", the money could be spent elsewhere... Like making sure the DB doesn't **** up again

[scottish]

They wouldn't be out of pocket from it, as it's be a limited time VIP that contributes towards it.

Not taking money out of anywhere else.

[lRhyss]

They wouldn't be out of pocket from it, as it's be a limited time VIP that contributes towards it.

Not taking money out of anywhere else.
Yeah I know but, the money could be better spent elsewhere, when there is 4 of us working on what is left to do on v7.

[FlyingJesus]

Skimmed thread. We're not lazy

lol


Why does everyone still overlook the site coders :'(

Because historically they don't seem to actually do anything

[lawrawrrr]

How, exactly, are we lazy then? I work every single day on Habbox things. I'll let you call me pretty much everything else you want but lazy is not one.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[FlyingJesus]

Well the fact that you lit just said that you only skimmed the thread and followed it with "we're not lazy" was rather hilarious

[Chris]

lol



Because historically they don't seem to actually do anything

Actually you're completely wrong. Granted, you haven't SEEN anything that they have produced but it doesn't mean that they do nothing.


Well the fact that you lit just said that you only skimmed the thread and followed it with "we're not lazy" was rather hilarious

Did you ever stop to think that there might be a reason she skimmed it?

[scottish]

They haven't done anything worthy of publishing then.

I mean 2-4 years for a habbo fansite update is a bit.. beyond a joke.

[Empired]

The whole thing about everything having to be kept a secret at Habbox really bugs me. I understand it's exciting to keep us in the dark and then surprise us, but you could literally just say 'Big event organised by the Competitions department coming soon'. That gives us nothing but still lets us know you're doing something.

One of the main reasons people are so harsh in feedback threads is because it LOOKS like management/general management do nothing all the time. I understand you are doing things, but it's frustrating for us because we don't know this. The entire community of Habbox should be involved more. Like Mike said, perhaps old ideas wouldn't have fallen through if there had been more people to contribute their ideas. Two heads are better than one. And a couple of hundred heads are better than three.

[Chris]

They haven't done anything worthy of publishing then.

I mean 2-4 years for a habbo fansite update is a bit.. beyond a joke.

What they have done is great. The only thing holding it back is the lack of a important features. Development has been on and off since it started, so its not really surprising that you've not seen it yet.

[FlyingJesus]

Actually you're completely wrong. Granted, you haven't SEEN anything that they have produced but it doesn't mean that they do nothing.

I'm so glad that they've done loads of stuff that's never been used, that makes everything worthwhile


Did you ever stop to think that there might be a reason she skimmed it?

Ya being lazy. Also it was a joke, a humorous comment on the juxtaposition of two seemingly contradictory clauses

[scottish]

The whole thing about everything having to be kept a secret at Habbox really bugs me. I understand it's exciting to keep us in the dark and then surprise us, but you could literally just say 'Big event organised by the Competitions department coming soon'. That gives us nothing but still lets us know you're doing something.

One of the main reasons people are so harsh in feedback threads is because it LOOKS like management/general management do nothing all the time. I understand you are doing things, but it's frustrating for us because we don't know this. The entire community of Habbox should be involved more. Like Mike said, perhaps old ideas wouldn't have fallen through if there had been more people to contribute their ideas. Two heads are better than one. And a couple of hundred heads are better than three.

No matter what happens with V7 whether it kept in the dark until last minute, or they reveal bit by bit the overall is going to be so disappointing.

The fact we've waiting 4 years for it or however long we have, it's just going to be such a disappointing product when it is revealed because the time it took, imho.

[Inseriousity.]

Projects for the year since the last thread
I am doing these from memory and also not including short-term events. Only the things that are long-term (or intended to be).

Achievements System (Chris)
The Box (Laura)
Official Rooms (Jade/Sam/Shoned)
Staff Challenges (Chris)
News department changes (Laura)

I can't really think of anything else but you're free to refresh my memory. Even if that's true, that means there's been 2 things put in place for each AGM in the whole year. For all I know, you could've been working on several ideas, had plans and ideas ready to go but things got in the way and they slipped down the list of priorities. That means you'd have 5 ideas we'd never heard of and we'd never know if one of them was the diamond in the rough because you're secretly guarding it as if its some precious item. Much better to have an idea released and everyone know about it than not released and nobody know about it, especially if it's the idea that could turn Habbox around. So I do not mean lazy in the sense that you do absolutely nothing, I mean lazy in the sense that if an idea becomes too difficult, it's swept under the rug and left there and it's lazy that it's possible to get away with that and no accountability in place to provide some momentum or help if it's needed.

[Lewis]

I agree that there should be an action plan. I think if more things were in the public, it'd help to motivate you in some aspects to get things done quicker, rather than keeping every single part of your job a secret, since the community are actually expecting it. That basically means if you were just to stop putting effort into it, there could be a possibility others don't want that to be the case and help to motivate you to get things done by knowing people actually want it.

Of course not everything can be told to everyone and not everything will go according to plan, but it'd be nice to see more of the stuff behind the scenes, for not only the community's purpose but yours too.

Only a little bit in The Box dedicated to do the above isn't really enough I think. (what's it called, past/present/future? there might be another bit, i'm not sure)

[Chris]

I'm so glad that they've done loads of stuff that's never been used, that makes everything worthwhile



Ya being lazy. Also it was a joke, a humorous comment on the juxtaposition of two seemingly contradictory clauses

Well you'll have to have a little bit more patience. We all want V7 to hurry up, but as you can see it takes a lot of time.

Bad joke.

[Inseriousity.]

Strange but not surprising to see general management dodge round the issue of posting 1.

[FlyingJesus]

Well you'll have to have a little bit more patience. We all want V7 to hurry up, but as you can see it takes a lot of time.

Bad joke.

It's been forever already, I think people have been far more patient than anyone other than Duke Nukem and Dr Dre fans have ever been. You're making a basic change to a website, not building the pyramids, and the delays have already had monstrous effect on several departments which are now completely failing because they've been unable to adapt to changes in their fields because upper management has for YEARS now held everything back on the promise of an unnecessary total overhaul. We've also known for years that it wasn't going to be a quick job, so other much needed updates being cancelled while waiting for it has been complete nonsense

Apologies for your lack of humour

[Chris]

You're making a basic change to a website

Thats enough to tell me that you don't know that you're talking about.

[Adam]

Thats enough to tell me that you don't know that you're talking about.
It takes 9 months for a baby to be born but 2 years for a website about Habbo to be built? You're talking out yer arse.

[lawrawrrr]

I skimmed the thread because I was at work and I'm not allowed to use my phone so the fact I read it straight away is actually quite surprising?

After having read it fully I don't really have much else to add from what I said earlier.

AGM work is project-based
Yes maybe but it doesn't mean we're not doing it or just leaving it till later "just because". We all discuss with each other what's going on and ask each other where the projects are at so we have that encouragement - I'm absolutely not posting every idea I have on the forum for the public to see until it's ready for the public to be seen.

The feedback forum is not a pack of vultures
Well that depends on your point of view really ;) But seriously, I take what's said in Feedback very seriously and do take on board what's said and try to implement it. However, sometimes it's not very possible! But really the reason the "action plan" hasn't been released is that there isn't one to release and I really think you need to get it into your head there will not ever be one to release.

If members want to criticise my workload they can go ahead as far as I'm concerned, I know how much work I do and the people who know me know that too. I don't need to post a complete list of every single minute thing I do to get that validation. I can't really think of an example where we've completely backtracked on a project screaming "aah it's too difficult" because we all take on challenges.

Lack of ideas
Well right now I have one idea which will come to fruition in January and one that I've only really started to research recently which could take another 6 months to exist. There are smaller ideas for each department as well which I relay to the managers - all these have time dedicated to them and a time frame on my personal files, but once again, I don't see any benefit to posting these to the public whatsoever.

Got to keep everything a secret
Got to? No. Prefer to not release stuff before? Yes. Why didn't you release all the information about the Hunger Games before, Mike? That's EXACTLY the same reason we don't publish stuff before it's ready. We have plenty of failed ideas and I don't deny those at all, and if a "secret" project (I use the quotation marks as secret is not exactly how I'd term it, it's just not public, like every organisation ever does, we don't publish things while they're still in the planning stages) does fail, I will admit it quite readily if it comes up. We don't need the public to "kick us up the butt" because we all work incredibly hard and tirelessly to do these things to start with, and the insinuation that we're lazy is actually fairly offensive.

Habbox needs radical action
Yup, I agree, and I think I've been fairly radical since I came into the role - I actually made sure the new Articles department worked and although it isn't perfect, it's a lot more relevant now than it used to be, the community are actually getting involved in things. RV changes are just being born now, so I'm hoping the same will happen soon, and there's some more plans in the pipeline to expand the Rares department too.

We're not careless, we are not lazy, we are accountable and will admit fault where there is some. There's a lot to do and so much potential, but we're 3 people, and if we don't have the managers to support us, we can't work miracles. I've tried really hard recently to get back in touch with staff and actually try to chat to them, nuture the good ones and carve a position for them as they are Habbox's future.

Since I became AGM, I've done the following "big projects"
• Revamp articles
• Oversee RV reforms (Dan did most of the work but I advised every time)
• Co-ordinate and design the Box every month (and write about 80% of it when noone steps forward to help, when I could just give up and actually get some sleep for that week)
• Help out with all Habbo events, making one all myself - we do this as an AGM team and it doesn't all fall to Sho
• Start the Design a Room comp

As well as the normal stuff we do, such as writing department reports, chipping in while managers are away, helping out staff members, doing some normal content department work, discussing promotions and ideas for events and things and reading feedback and turning it into condensed action points for managers.

I've also tried the following, and although I wouldn't use the word 'fail', they haven't come to fruition yet:
• Pestering about getting V7 out, offering to pay for a coder out of my own pocket
• The last of the RV changes dependent on user feedback
• Within Articles, Guest Writers, although myself and bikini; have spoken about this and are working on it soon
• Management guides (just haven't had time)

The things I will be looking at in the next few weeks and months are focusing on Content, as I've done a lot of work with RV and Articles so it's fair to try and boost that as much as possible and a community event which will come out in January, which I am not releasing more information about yet. That's the closest you'll EVER get to me publishing an action plan.

[Chris]

It takes 9 months for a baby to be born but 2 years for a website about Habbo to be built? You're talking out yer arse.

I have not once said it should take 2 years. I'm simply pointing out that for various reasons, it's not as quick and easy as Tom is making it out to be.

[FlyingJesus]

I'm not saying it's quick and easy I'm saying it shouldn't take years and years and you shouldn't tell people to just sit tight while nothing is put into actual use and the entire site falls to pieces. There are lots of things that ARE quick and easy that have been dismissed because "V7 will fix that" or "we can't until we have V7", and because of that we now have maybe 2 departments that aren't completely useless

[Chris]

I'm not saying it's quick and easy I'm saying it shouldn't take years and years and you shouldn't tell people to just sit tight while nothing is put into actual use and the entire site falls to pieces. There are lots of things that ARE quick and easy that have been dismissed because "V7 will fix that" or "we can't until we have V7", and because of that we now have maybe 2 departments that aren't completely useless

Well if there is anything that a manager needs that v6 can't do then we'll happily look into it. I've got nothing to do with things that have been said in the past, so I'm not going to tell people to wait until v7 if its something that can be done with the current version.

[lawrawrrr]

We haven't used the "CANT DO THAT UNTIL V7" excuse for ages IIRC. There are some things which naturally will be made easier when v7 is released - some things are impossible on the current site and all coders are diverted onto v7 work, but it hasn't stopped us from revamping two departments to make them more relevant despite the difficulties presented back-end, which we work around. Simple fact is, we can't release V7 until it's coded.

[The Don]

Thats enough to tell me that you don't know that you're talking about.

To be fair HotelUser was working on V7 before he left in what, 2011? It's nearly 2015 it shouldn't take half a year to make a website from scratch let alone nearly 4-5 years.

[lawrawrrr]

To be fair HotelUser was working on V7 before he left in what, 2011? It's nearly 2015 it shouldn't take half a year to make a website from scratch let alone nearly 4-5 years.
When you've got consistent coders it's not that hard no, but we haven't had! I don't think Dave was ever working on it though?

[Inseriousity.]

I skimmed the thread because I was at work and I'm not allowed to use my phone so the fact I read it straight away is actually quite surprising?

After having read it fully I don't really have much else to add from what I said earlier.

AGM work is project-based
Yes maybe but it doesn't mean we're not doing it or just leaving it till later "just because". We all discuss with each other what's going on and ask each other where the projects are at so we have that encouragement - I'm absolutely not posting every idea I have on the forum for the public to see until it's ready for the public to be seen.


I have already said that the AGM team is working more like a team nowadays and that's great! The problem with waiting for things to be ready is that if it's never ready then it's never going to be seen and everyone will be wondering what the hell you've been doing.


The feedback forum is not a pack of vultures
Well that depends on your point of view really ;) But seriously, I take what's said in Feedback very seriously and do take on board what's said and try to implement it. However, sometimes it's not very possible! But really the reason the "action plan" hasn't been released is that there isn't one to release and I really think you need to get it into your head there will not ever be one to release.

I really think you need to get it into your head that there already is one. If you're working on projects then it exists even if it's not in public. The members have already proven they are supportive when they see results, when they see people trying even if it still needs a little work or things are in its beta stages. When managers communicate what they are doing, they are generally more respected while those that try to hide away 'behind the scenes' are treated with suspicion.


If members want to criticise my workload they can go ahead as far as I'm concerned, I know how much work I do and the people who know me know that too. I don't need to post a complete list of every single minute thing I do to get that validation. I can't really think of an example where we've completely backtracked on a project screaming "aah it's too difficult" because we all take on challenges.

And I've never asked for a complete list of every single minute thing. I've asked very specifically for the names of 'big projects.' It doesn't need details released. In fact, if you'd posted the list below ages ago, that'd have been sufficient. In fact, you'd have less there because only the projects that involved the public seeing something when it was completed would need to be included (so articles/RV overhaul would count, changing management guides would be too 'minute' to be included). I wouldn't include events either which if you'd read my post fully like you said you did, you'd already know about but I'll explain it again where you mentioned it.


Lack of ideas
Well right now I have one idea which will come to fruition in January and one that I've only really started to research recently which could take another 6 months to exist. There are smaller ideas for each department as well which I relay to the managers - all these have time dedicated to them and a time frame on my personal files, but once again, I don't see any benefit to posting these to the public whatsoever.

Would only need to release the projects you had control over as again, I pointed out in my original post for the reason you brought up (the ones department managers do tend to be smaller).


Got to keep everything a secret
Got to? No. Prefer to not release stuff before? Yes. Why didn't you release all the information about the Hunger Games before, Mike? That's EXACTLY the same reason we don't publish stuff before it's ready.

I don't release information about the Hunger Games because events are short-term projects that are not usually radical or challenging. That's not to say organising a big event is easy but compared to radical ideas that have 'died' over the years due to the many practical (and understandable) obstacles involved, they're a piece of cake. As a result, I would count big events as coming under the usual duties of a manager and while still a 'project' it is really only the long-term projects introduced that would need to be included.


We have plenty of failed ideas and I don't deny those at all, and if a "secret" project (I use the quotation marks as secret is not exactly how I'd term it, it's just not public, like every organisation ever does, we don't publish things while they're still in the planning stages) does fail, I will admit it quite readily if it comes up.

Which it won't come up if no-one has a clue that they exist so yes, "secret" projects die out.


We don't need the public to "kick us up the butt" because we all work incredibly hard and tirelessly to do these things to start with, and the insinuation that we're lazy is actually fairly offensive.

I've already explained this in the thread.


Habbox needs radical action
Yup, I agree, and I think I've been fairly radical since I came into the role - I actually made sure the new Articles department worked and although it isn't perfect, it's a lot more relevant now than it used to be, the community are actually getting involved in things. RV changes are just being born now, so I'm hoping the same will happen soon, and there's some more plans in the pipeline to expand the Rares department too.

We're not careless, we are not lazy, we are accountable and will admit fault where there is some. There's a lot to do and so much potential, but we're 3 people, and if we don't have the managers to support us, we can't work miracles. I've tried really hard recently to get back in touch with staff and actually try to chat to them, nuture the good ones and carve a position for them as they are Habbox's future.

Since I became AGM, I've done the following "big projects"
• Revamp articles
• Oversee RV reforms (Dan did most of the work but I advised every time)
• Co-ordinate and design the Box every month (and write about 80% of it when noone steps forward to help, when I could just give up and actually get some sleep for that week)
• Help out with all Habbo events, making one all myself - we do this as an AGM team and it doesn't all fall to Sho
• Start the Design a Room comp

Ah yes RV reforms, you can add that to that list I made too. However you are not accountable if only 3 people know about your ideas.


As well as the normal stuff we do, such as writing department reports, chipping in while managers are away, helping out staff members, doing some normal content department work, discussing promotions and ideas for events and things and reading feedback and turning it into condensed action points for managers.

I've also tried the following, and although I wouldn't use the word 'fail', they haven't come to fruition yet:
• Pestering about getting V7 out, offering to pay for a coder out of my own pocket
• The last of the RV changes dependent on user feedback
• Within Articles, Guest Writers, although myself and @bikini (http://www.habboxforum.com/member.php?u=119486); have spoken about this and are working on it soon
• Management guides (just haven't had time)

The things I will be looking at in the next few weeks and months are focusing on Content, as I've done a lot of work with RV and Articles so it's fair to try and boost that as much as possible and a community event which will come out in January, which I am not releasing more information about yet. That's the closest you'll EVER get to me publishing an action plan.

Thank you for at least having the decency to respond to my points :)

[Chris]

To be fair HotelUser was working on V7 before he left in what, 2011? It's nearly 2015 it shouldn't take half a year to make a website from scratch let alone nearly 4-5 years.

I'm not sure what David did to v7 other than attempting to import the rare values system. Anyway, I agree with what Laura said.

[Martin]

Haven't we had quite a few different coders/people working on it during these past few years though? How can we be sure that the current coders won't be exactly the same; i.e do a bit of work then be 'too busy' to make enough progress for it to be released within a decent time frame etc? Other departments have minimums they have to follow, so I presume the site coders are monitored too in terms of doing a certain amount of week and presenting evidence of what they've achieved? Or is it more layed back in that role?

[scottish]

Why did they say not to you paying Laura?

[Chris]

Haven't we had quite a few different coders/people working on it during these past few years though? How can we be sure that the current coders won't be exactly the same; i.e do a bit of work then be 'too busy' to make enough progress for it to be released within a decent time frame etc? Other departments have minimums they have to follow, so I presume the site coders are monitored too in terms of doing a certain amount of week and presenting evidence of what they've achieved? Or is it more layed back in that role?

Far more layed back. Given the situation, we can't be too picky. :P

[David]

We haven't used the "CANT DO THAT UNTIL V7" excuse for ages IIRC. There are some things which naturally will be made easier when v7 is released - some things are impossible on the current site and all coders are diverted onto v7 work, but it hasn't stopped us from revamping two departments to make them more relevant despite the difficulties presented back-end, which we work around. Simple fact is, we can't release V7 until it's coded.

were u told not to use that excuse until v7

[Kyle]

only positive feedback is listened to and built upon. negative feedback which is usually the most useful is ignored. fact.

[Empired]

only positive feedback is listened to and built upon. negative feedback which is usually the most useful is ignored. fact.
Not completely 'fact' but true for most of the time. I'll agree the feedback section can be very daunting when everyone is shouting all at once, but I'm so frustrated with the apparent lack of progress. How else are we supposed to react after four years? I honestly don't care that you keep saying you're doing stuff behind the scenes, PROVE IT. Why should we take your word for granted?

Why is it practically everyone is clamouring for general management to make an action plan and still they refuse?

[Kyle]

Not completely 'fact' but true for most of the time. I'll agree the feedback section can be very daunting when everyone is shouting all at once, but I'm so frustrated with the apparent lack of progress. How else are we supposed to react after four years? I honestly don't care that you keep saying you're doing stuff behind the scenes, PROVE IT. Why should we take your word for granted?

Why is it practically everyone is clamouring for general management to make an action plan and still they refuse?
nope, it's a fact. only suggestions for improvement or features (the box, for example) is heard and anything that requires actual thinking and problem solving skill is disregarded.

[Empired]

nope, it's a fact. only suggestions for improvement or features (the box, for example) is heard and anything that requires actual thinking and problem solving skill is disregarded.
oh my bad, you seem to be right. I've just been back through the last two pages of habbox feedback and not a single in-depth problem has been properly tackled as far as I can see

[Sian]

I honestly think one if the current problems is you're doing too many big events when you need to concentrate on the departments, I saw it with the help desk. Didn't get a chance to build on the staff because we were always expected to do our part in a big e vent.

Now dont get me wrong, I'm impressed with the fact they happen but it's not what is needed and isn't really getting any new members in.

Do an action plan, put in it your goals (staffing, rebuilding the departments, evaluate what the community is saying with thoughtful answers instead of just justifying what you already do).

You've got a chance now to make some big changes with having a new gm, utilise it,get out of the mattg regime and build your own.

Like fansites used to be!

[Reality]

I fail to see the reason why the input is needed from people who have no knowledge of what is really happening behind the scenes in General Administration.

Yes, yes it doesn't look like much has been done by the site coders for the new v7 v8, but I think a little bit of thanks would be more suited here?
They've not long been in the department as newly appointed Site Coders. I know for a fact they've been slaving away to get things done for v7 v8 (only @Rhyss; will get why it's not v7).
Getting someone outside of Habbox or Habbo is completely and utterly stupid. That would totally make the idea of a Habbo(x) themed version applicable to a outsider of Habbo(x). They will have no idea of what Habbo is or of that Habbox. As well as this, if you have so much to complain about that v7 isn't being completed then why don't you take some action? Because, frankly everyone can sit there and complain for 2 years that nothings being done, but at the end of the day it's a voluntary job and it's not something that has to be worked on 24/7. The Site Coders believe it or not have lives (shocking right?).

In the end it's all down to this fellah:
http://www.tashload.com/Uploader/uploads//JagVuJi.jpg

Also, like previously mentioned - Habbox is doing too many big events and community events that it's not taking any time to look at the smaller things that Habbox needs to be able to improve that's mentioned in various Feedback threads, that may not be yet addressed.
Once, these have been addressed then go back to the big events. Big events, aren't a priority - right?

[Kyle]

have you literally got a list of passive aggressive key phrases on standby for every feedback thread?

1. not stupid to get someone who actually knows how to code. what it's for doesn't matter so long as you can describe the features you want well enough.
2. I/WE/THEY/X have lives. yes but why take on a voluntary role if you aren't going to do anything for it? There has been plenty of time to dedicate to V7/8 over the last four years, it just hasn't been done.
3. what alternative action to giving feedback when they're disappointed would you suggest that members take?

[Inseriousity.]

hosting big events isn't priority, no, but why is there this idea that someone can only do 1 thing at once.

[Alkaz]

http://www.habboxforum.com/showthread.php?t=550010

I think something like the thread above should be done again. Highlight changes or plans for the year and update us every quarter throughout the year to keep us in the loop with what's going on behind the scenes, what failed, what worked etc. With regards to V7, give us a glimpse of the layout. It still isn't real to us at least we can see some sort of design we know that there has actually been some progress with it. Also, does the entire website have to be coded from scratch, the last time that happened it didn't work out too well.

[lawrawrrr]

Negative feedback is taken on board, but when they're stupid or pointless suggestions like "SCRAP THE DEPARTMENT" we're obviously going to ignore that :P If something's gone wrong and we can work on it, 9 times out of 10, we do?

[Chris]

Enjoy: http://www.habboxforum.com/showthread.php?t=816488&p=8287543#post8287543

[Inseriousity.]

Are general management also going to have a space on this monthly briefing to talk about what they're doing?
It could be a good idea, bit like runescape's behind the scenes monthly thing. Nice to see something done anyway, technically more than I was asking for but we shall see, the weekly briefing was a bit of a joke back in the day really. Hopefully this one will be more substantial :D

[Absently]

Are general management also going to have a space on this monthly briefing to talk about what they're doing?
It could be a good idea, bit like runescape's behind the scenes monthly thing. Nice to see something done anyway, technically more than I was asking for but we shall see, the weekly briefing was a bit of a joke back in the day really. Hopefully this one will be more substantial :DIn our briefing the general management always generally have a bit too, so I'd say it'll be the same for the box :)

[Chris]

Are general management also going to have a space on this monthly briefing to talk about what they're doing?
It could be a good idea, bit like runescape's behind the scenes monthly thing. Nice to see something done anyway, technically more than I was asking for but we shall see, the weekly briefing was a bit of a joke back in the day really. Hopefully this one will be more substantial :D

If they wish to write something then they can, but they may want to save their piece for the takeover.

Briefing can be a useful tool for us, so I think that making it public will give everyone a better view into what departments are doing. This is especially true for the more behind the scenes departments such as Graphics, which actually do a lot more than people tend to think.

[lawrawrrr]

Are general management also going to have a space on this monthly briefing to talk about what they're doing?
It could be a good idea, bit like runescape's behind the scenes monthly thing. Nice to see something done anyway, technically more than I was asking for but we shall see, the weekly briefing was a bit of a joke back in the day really. Hopefully this one will be more substantial :D
Yes we always say what we're doing too in those briefings! A monthly briefing is a lot more doable I think, everyone should be doing at least SOMETHING worth mentioning within the space of an entire month. We currently do them fortnightly and they get fairly busy as they are!

[Inseriousity.]

So there's something worth mentioning every month but not every 4 months? the mind boggles!

Good to hear though :)
and yeah i love graphics dept<3

[lawrawrrr]

I was talking about departments :p Most of what I post in briefings is to let managers know my availability and plan when it comes to their departments and ideas, as well as asking for things as well. I still won't be publishing a direct list of every single thing I'm working on or projects while they're in their infancy but I can do a tiny bit to fill on a Box page/spread!

[Chris]

Well I hope it appeases you guys who wanted to know more! I do have another idea that will give you an insight, but for now I don't have enough information for it to begin.

[Inseriousity.]

ohh so everyone else should have something worth mentioning.

[lawrawrrr]

ok can you actually read what I write and not what you want to read:

> everyone (referring to normal managers) should be doing at least SOMETHING worth mentioning within the space of an entire month
> I still won't be publishing a direct list of every single thing I'm working on or projects while they're in their infancy but I can do a tiny bit to fill on a Box page/spread!

EVERYONE should have something worth mentioning, myself included. I still won't be publishing a list of barely formulated ideas, but I'll post what I'm working on.

[Inseriousity.]

Well you do it all the time. I mean again you're saying I wanted every single little thing when I have explained to you enough times that you didn't need to report every single little thing and yet you keep saying it, simply because it suits your flawed argument.

I apologise for getting EVERYONE and then you saying 'when I said that I meant departments' confused. :)

[lawrawrrr]

You want a list of every event we plan when its in its infancy


Much better to have an idea released and everyone know about it than not released and nobody know about it, especially if it's the idea that could turn Habbox around.

which I simply refuse to do :P

That's all, I'll post what I did earlier in the thread regularly but that's as far as I'll go.

[FlyingJesus]

There must be a hell of a lot of ideas that never get past the planning stage if you're constantly working as you say and yet nothing gets announced

And yeah Chris we found out earlier in the thread that you're not allowed to point out the inconsistencies in what management say and do, how rude of you to still not know that their words don't mean the same as what mere mortals such as us know them to mean

[Inseriousity.]

Errr no that's stretching my words. There is nothing there about releasing ideas in their infancy. My point was that it's better for an idea to be released and everyone know about it than letting it die out so actually, was more about releasing ideas when they're at death's door rather than leaving them to die.
3 big projects that general management are working on every 4 months. Without getting into religion here but I suppose it'd depend on your definition of infancy haha. I would imagine an idea would need some shape or at the very least a guarantee that it'd be possible to do within the 4 months (so your 6 month idea for instance wouldn't cut it) before you'd add it into an action plan.

[lawrawrrr]

A lot of my "constantly working" time goes into overseeing everything the departments do, day-to-day and event planning and creating the box! It's not like our job is JUST to make new things :P

Maybe I am stretching your words a bit but that's just the impression I seem to get from these threads. Whatever happens, we're bringing you a briefing every month now so just see how that goes. I'm off to bed.

[scottish]

I don't imagine you actually do anything for overseeing departments, day to day running, events etc rather than the approval of large events, and deal with anything managers or staff pm you?

[Drew]

I don't imagine you actually do anything for overseeing departments, day to day running, events etc rather than the approval of large events, and deal with anything managers or staff pm you?
Laura helps to look after Graphics whenever I'm away, writes feedback for staff's work, and writes department reports as well. lawrawrrr; you've also worked on the Alteration Archive early this year :)

[Sian]

It's good to know the basis of what you're doing. And that you are concentrating more then we'd think on the departments (as it's often hard to know from the outside)

[Empired]

You want a list of every event we plan when its in its infancy



which I simply refuse to do :P

That's all, I'll post what I did earlier in the thread regularly but that's as far as I'll go.
In these briefings or sections in The Box is it not possible to just say 'We have a big event coming up planned by General Management/Competitions/Help Desk/mixture of departments'? I don't think Mike is asking you to take us through your ideas step by step, but just to mention it.

You seem to be under the impression you can either tell us nothing or everything. There is an in between, is there not?

[lawrawrrr]

In these briefings or sections in The Box is it not possible to just say 'We have a big event coming up planned by General Management/Competitions/Help Desk/mixture of departments'? I don't think Mike is asking you to take us through your ideas step by step, but just to mention it.

You seem to be under the impression you can either tell us nothing or everything. There is an in between, is there not?

I haven't said that - in fact earlier in the thread I wrote as much as I would want to release - that IS the in between, and that's what I'll put in!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Empired]

I haven't said that - in fact earlier in the thread I wrote as much as I would want to release - that IS the in between, and that's what I'll put in!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Ok cool I just think you were thinking Mike was telling you to post what you're doing step-by-step when he wasn't saying that at all.

[Yupt]

Well lots of fun things are always being planned by competitions, so everyone should forever be excited xxxxxx

including the amazing hunger games event (http://www.habboxforum.com/forumdisplay.php?f=1684)

[Chippiewill]

To be fair HotelUser was working on V7 before he left in what, 2011? It's nearly 2015 it shouldn't take half a year to make a website from scratch let alone nearly 4-5 years.

Actually he only ever worked on his V6.5 or w/e upgrade **** he was working on. All that was scrapped when Tomf/Adam/Kieran took over.

[David]

he was doing the habboxlive merge