HxF Users banned from driving in Russia

[AgnesIO]

Russia says drivers must not have 'sex disorders'


Russia has listed transsexual and transgender people among those who will no longer qualify for driving licences.
Fetishism, exhibitionism and voyeurism are also included as "mental disorders" now barring people from driving.The government says it is tightening medical controls for drivers because Russia has too many road accidents."Pathological" gambling and compulsive stealing are also on the list. Russian psychiatrists and human rights lawyers have condemned the move.The announcement follows international complaints about Russian harassment of gay-rights activists.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-30735673

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Obviously, the title was a light-hearted joke. Absolutely ridiculous, and laughable that they are claiming it is to prevent road accidents!

[Hannah]

Lol, 'Dude, you're not capable of driving... you have a foot fetish which is definitely going to cause a few accidents around here!'

Russia hasn't failed to surprise me, recently.

[MKR&*42]

Fetishism.. really?

Actually just really to any of thaty ikes

[AgnesIO]

Probably be best if they banned vodka, first, to be honest.

[karter]

how ridiculous that they consider being transgender as a part of someone's sexuality let alone a disorder. stupid.

[-:Undertaker:-]

I would be cautious when reading western stories concerning Russia, as with the homosexuality bill a while ago it wasn't anything like it was being made out to be in western media (akin to banning homosexual acts) yet the BBC, Sky and all the papers ran with the story to demonise President Putin.

Russia although is introducing socially conservatives bills at the moment as they now see themselves as the sole upholder of Christian moral and western moral values, which compared to the rest of the western world they're doing a good job at. Putin is very very very popular for it in Russia.

[AgnesIO]

Lol, 'Dude, you're not capable of driving... you have a foot fetish which is definitely going to cause a few accidents around here!'

Russia hasn't failed to surprise me, recently.

Well we don't want him trying to lick his own feet whilst driving, that could be dangerous :rolleyes:


Fetishism.. really?

Actually just really to any of thaty ikes

That one caught your eye... :P

Pretty sure there are Russian porn stars though, who almost certainly are guilty of such acts.


how ridiculous that they consider being transgender as a part of someone's sexuality let alone a disorder. stupid.

Branding it a disorder is ludicrous in the first place, to then claim it is risk for driving is ludicrous!


I would be cautious when reading western stories concerning Russia, as with the homosexuality bill a while ago it wasn't anything like it was being made out to be in western media (akin to banning homosexual acts) yet the BBC, Sky and all the papers ran with the story to demonise President Putin.

Russia although is introducing socially conservatives bills at the moment as they now see themselves as the sole upholder of Christian moral and western moral values, which compared to the rest of the western world they're doing a good job at. Putin is very very very popular for it in Russia.

"Christian values", you must be referring to 'human' values, Dan. I don't think any of this is directly a 'Western' thing - homosexuality is a far bigger issue in African, Asian and Gulf countries. The problem is, if I cannot read the BBC, Sky and newspapers - what can I read for an unbiased viewpoint? Certainly not the Russian news!

[MKR&*42]

That one caught your eye... :P

I'm not going to deny anything ;)!

[AgnesIO]

I'm not going to deny anything ;)!

as long as your pixel artist role isn't anything more sinister, it's cool...

[MKR&*42]

as long as your pixel artist role isn't anything more sinister, it's cool...

I've known of many odd fetishes, can't say that is one of them ;)

[-:Undertaker:-]

"Christian values", you must be referring to 'human' values, Dan. I don't think any of this is directly a 'Western' thing - homosexuality is a far bigger issue in African, Asian and Gulf countries.

No, Christian values and Christian morality I am referring to: on which western values are based.

Russia in the modern day views the rest of the west as deviating from these values and views itself as the defender of Christianity and morality in the west. It goes arm in arm with Russia's reclaiming of its lost western territories, as well as the resuscitation of the reputation of the Orthodox Church/the Monarchy in Russia. That's why Putin is so popular in Russia and that is why other western politicians criticising Russia over the likes of 'gay rights' has the complete opposite effect over there as to what naive liberals over here think it will have. Indeed, it simply confirms their perceptions.


The problem is, if I cannot read the BBC, Sky and newspapers - what can I read for an unbiased viewpoint? Certainly not the Russian news!

You watch both like I do, and then work it out rather than accepting either side as the whole truth. Russia Today has an agenda as does the BBC, the Daily Mail and the Guardian newspaper: so always read what your enemy (whichever side you stand on whatever issue) is saying and thinks.

My understanding of the bill last year was simply a Section 28 style law in Russia, one which was supported overwhelmingly by the Russian people.

[AgnesIO]

No, Christian values and Christian morality I am referring to: on which western values are based.

Russia in the modern day views the rest of the west as deviating from these values and views itself as the defender of Christianity and morality in the west. It goes arm in arm with Russia's reclaiming of its lost western territories, as well as the resuscitation of the reputation of the Orthodox Church/the Monarchy in Russia. That's why Putin is so popular in Russia and that is why other western politicians criticising Russia over the likes of 'gay rights' has the complete opposite effect over there as to what naive liberals over here think it will have. Indeed, it simply confirms their perceptions.



You watch both like I do, and then work it out rather than accepting either side as the whole truth. Russia Today has an agenda as does the BBC, the Daily Mail and the Guardian newspaper: so always read what your enemy (whichever side you stand on whatever issue) is saying and thinks.

My understanding of the bill last year was simply a Section 28 style law in Russia, one which was supported overwhelmingly by the Russian people.

On this bases, can I therefore use Russia Today as my source for this?

http://rt.com/news/221235-russia-driving-ban-transgender/

That article says very similar things to what the BBC has produced, apart from one line;


“Sexual disorders” may be an obstacle to driving a car if they take "chronic and prolonged” form with“severe or persistent painful symptoms,” the decree said.

You are more than welcome to try and explain how being gay can possibly cause the above - or could that just be some ******** added in? Who is going to judge this?

Whilst I have no doubts that the media often tries to headhunt/be biased against individuals/nations, in this case there simply isn't any grounds showing this.

P.S. I am completely with Russia in some things (conservatism), just I think this one is ludicrous - I can have my views on gay people, but to claim they could be dangerous driving is just insanity :P

[The Don]

No, Christian values and Christian morality I am referring to: on which western values are based.

Russia in the modern day views the rest of the west as deviating from these values and views itself as the defender of Christianity and morality in the west. It goes arm in arm with Russia's reclaiming of its lost western territories, as well as the resuscitation of the reputation of the Orthodox Church/the Monarchy in Russia. That's why Putin is so popular in Russia and that is why other western politicians criticising Russia over the likes of 'gay rights' has the complete opposite effect over there as to what naive liberals over here think it will have. Indeed, it simply confirms their perceptions.



You watch both like I do, and then work it out rather than accepting either side as the whole truth. Russia Today has an agenda as does the BBC, the Daily Mail and the Guardian newspaper: so always read what your enemy (whichever side you stand on whatever issue) is saying and thinks.

My understanding of the bill last year was simply a Section 28 style law in Russia, one which was supported overwhelmingly by the Russian people.

No, Putin is so popular in Russia due to a myriad of reasons, the most contributing one being the state ran media distributing propaganda. Calling liberals naive insinuates that Russia and Putin are correct, one only needs to look at how well liberal countries are doing in comparison to Russia to see that you're wrong.

[Kyle]

It doesn't say anything about gay people and afaik it seems to be to do with physical impairments resulting from these sexual disorders. Are there any actual cases or research in Russia or elsewhere to do with road safety and atypical sexualities or genders ? Would be interesting to see what the basis for this introduction is.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[-:Undertaker:-]

On this bases, can I therefore use Russia Today as my source for this?

http://rt.com/news/221235-russia-driving-ban-transgender/

That article says very similar things to what the BBC has produced, apart from one line;

You are more than welcome to try and explain how being gay can possibly cause the above - or could that just be some ******** added in? Who is going to judge this?

Whilst I have no doubts that the media often tries to headhunt/be biased against individuals/nations, in this case there simply isn't any grounds showing this.

P.S. I am completely with Russia in some things (conservatism), just I think this one is ludicrous - I can have my views on gay people, but to claim they could be dangerous driving is just insanity :P

I don't understand what you mean, all I am saying is that stories about Russia in western media should be taken with a pinch of salt because like the bill that was made out to ban homosexuality (but didn't and infact was just a Section 28 style law) they are often rolled up like a paper in which to hit the Russian Government over the head with. Interestingly with the Russian homosexuality bill, I noticed how western media did not quote any polling which actually showed that such a bill had widespread support in Russia.

Now why would western media not want to show us that? Because like any piece of media, they have a bias.


No, Putin is so popular in Russia due to a myriad of reasons, the most contributing one being the state ran media distributing propaganda. Calling liberals naive insinuates that Russia and Putin are correct, one only needs to look at how well liberal countries are doing in comparison to Russia to see that you're wrong.

Wow that's so incredibly naive to the history of Russia I don't even know where to start, let alone question what makes you think that because the Russians hold different moral opinions to yourself that they are 'brainwashed' - perhaps as an educated people they simply disagree with you and hold different opinions on morality, for all we know they could see you as brainwashed as you too have been influenced by government propaganda in schools, newspaper propaganda and media propaganda.

[The Don]

I don't understand what you mean, all I am saying is that stories about Russia in western media should be taken with a pinch of salt because like the bill that was made out to ban homosexuality (but didn't and infact was just a Section 28 style law) they are often rolled up like a paper in which to hit the Russian Government over the head with. Interestingly with the Russian homosexuality bill, I noticed how western media did not quote any polling which actually showed that such a bill had widespread support in Russia.

Now why would western media not want to show us that? Because like any piece of media, they have a bias.



Wow that's so incredibly naive to the history of Russia I don't even know where to start, let alone question what makes you think that because the Russians hold different moral opinions to yourself that they are 'brainwashed' - perhaps as an educated people they simply disagree with you and hold different opinions on morality, for all we know they could see you as brainwashed as you too have been influenced by government propaganda in schools, newspaper propaganda and media propaganda.

It's incredibly naive by pointing out to you that there are multiple factors influencing Putins popularity? As opposed to your simplistic and frankly wrong suggestion that the only factor at play here is his implementation of Christian morals? How funny.

[-:Undertaker:-]

It's incredibly naive by pointing out to you that there are multiple factors influencing Putins popularity? As opposed to your simplistic and frankly wrong suggestion that the only factor at play here is his implementation of Christian morals? How funny.

Of course there are multiple factors, but the biggest factor isn't the simplistic anti-Putin "he brainwashes everyone on tv" like you seem to think and like westen media would have it portrayed. If you want to pick one main factor it is his foreign policy stance that is very popular in Russia, followed by domestic policy. He's done a good job given the circumstances and what Russia was facing in the 1990s too.

He's popular because he puts Russia first: something left-wing politicians and commentators over here have no understanding of.

[The Don]

Of course there are multiple factors, but the biggest factor isn't the simplistic anti-Putin "he brainwashes everyone on tv" like you seem to think and like westen media would have it portrayed. If you want to pick one main factor it is his foreign policy stance that is very popular in Russia, followed by domestic policy. He's done a good job given the circumstances and what Russia was facing in the 1990s too.


You only need to look over the internet to see hundreds of accounts from Russian people themselves pointing out how brainwashed the older generations are. The state controls a great deal of the media still over there and you can see propaganda videos yourself on youtube. You called me naive for suggesting that propaganda is the main cause of Putins popularity, whilst that's debatable at least I pointed out there are multiple factors behind it and didn't simply suggest his policy on christian values was the answer (which you've now backtracked by saying that his foreign policy is what makes him popular despite just a few posts ago arguing his views on morality were the cause of it).


He's popular because he puts Russia first: something left-wing politicians and commentators over here have no understanding of.

So despite yourself agreeing that there are multiple factors explaining his popularity you've yet again tried to simplify it by pinpointing it to one factor. He's popular because of multiple reasons, an important one being the largely state ran media. Others include his cult of personality, the generally low levels of education in rural parts of Russia which means a large part of the population blindly swallow everything their told. His harsh stance against any liberalism will also make him popular amongst those same uneducated masses.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gvWrb0i8a-c

for all we know they could see you as brainwashed as you too have been influenced by government propaganda in schools, newspaper propaganda and media propaganda.
Are you really suggesting the levels of propaganda in Russia is comparable to that in the UK?

Putin has destroyed Russia politically and economically over the past 12-24 months with Ukraine, any sensible person can see that and for you to suggest he's some great leader because he doesn't like them gay folk is laughable.

[-:Undertaker:-]

You only need to look over the internet to see hundreds of accounts from Russian people themselves pointing out how brainwashed the older generations are. The state controls a great deal of the media still over there and you can see propaganda videos yourself on youtube. You called me naive for suggesting that propaganda is the main cause of Putins popularity, whilst that's debatable at least I pointed out there are multiple factors behind it and didn't simply suggest his policy on christian values was the answer (which you've now backtracked by saying that his foreign policy is what makes him popular despite just a few posts ago arguing his views on morality were the cause of it).

And how do you know this? You do realise those opposing Putin in Russia would say something like that, much as if you asked many Labour activists they believe the Tories are running an ideologically based campaign to purposely hurt the poor: the fact somebody believes something and claims something doesn't make it true, especially when they oppose Putin to begin with. I don't doubt the Russian Government engages in propaganda, but show me a government that doesn't.

On what I said, I said his moral stance was very popular in Russia which it is: there's other reasons for his popularity too of course.


So despite yourself agreeing that there are multiple factors explaining his popularity you've yet again tried to simplify it by pinpointing it to one factor. He's popular because of multiple reasons, an important one being the largely state ran media. Others include his cult of personality, the generally low levels of education in rural parts of Russia which means a large part of the population blindly swallow everything their told. His harsh stance against any liberalism will also make him popular amongst those same uneducated masses.

How interesting that you think anybody who opposes western liberalism is uneducated.

That says more about you than it does about Putin.


Are you really suggesting the levels of propaganda in Russia is comparable to that in the UK?

No, we're just much better at propaganda than Russia is.


Putin has destroyed Russia politically and economically over the past 12-24 months with Ukraine

Putin or US, British and EU foreign policy?

And the Russians don't really care if you don't let them attend the G20 talking shop or get the useless Baroness Cathy Ashton to issue a statement. To them and even their politicians, the interests of Russia and the Russian people come first as they should as opposed to what a bunch of western navel-gazers think of it.


any sensible person can see that and for you to suggest he's some great leader because he doesn't like them gay folk is laughable.

I didn't say that, and again I do not see any evidence really that he has some huge agenda against homosexuality.

[The Don]

And how do you know this? You do realise those opposing Putin in Russia would say something like that, much as if you asked many Labour activists they believe the Tories are running an ideologically based campaign to purposely hurt the poor: the fact somebody believes something and claims something doesn't make it true, especially when they oppose Putin to begin with.

How do I know that there’s a lot of propaganda in Russia? You can see evidence of it all over the net, heck I’ve just provided a video from a one second google search which shows signs comparing Ukraine to the Nazis. The fact that the state runs the media also screams propaganda. You keep pointing out that there’s propaganda in the west, of course there is. There’s propaganda everywhere. If you think the propaganda and corruption in the UK is anything matching the levels in Russia then I’ve lost all hope for you.


On what I said, I said his moral stance was very popular in Russia which it is: there's other reasons for his popularity too of course.

So perhaps making blanket statements to simplify a complex topic isn’t the best way to end your post.


How interesting that you think anybody who opposes western liberalism is uneducated.

liberalism - a political or social philosophy advocating the freedom of the individual, parliamentary systems of government, nonviolent modification of political, social, or economic institutions to assure unrestricted development in all spheres of human endeavour, and governmental guarantees of individual rights and civil liberties.

Yeah, I think people those that oppose equal rights and the equal treatment of people are either uneducated or lack empathy.


That says more about you than it does about Putin.

Not really since I’m not the one invading and annexing another sovereign nation.


No, we're just much better at propaganda than Russia is.

So you do think there’s more propaganda in the UK than Russia?


Putin or US, British and EU foreign policy?

Putin is solely to blame for the consequences. If a burglar is shot and killed you wouldn’t blame the homeowner for their death, you would blame the criminal. If a rapist is killed in self defence you wouldn’t blame the victim for their death, you would blame the rapist. If a country invades another and is economically ruined by sanctions imposed on it in retaliation then you wouldn’t blame the countries issuing the sanctions, you would blame Putin and whoever else is responsible for Russians military actions in Ukraine.


And the Russians don't really care if you don't let them attend the G20 talking shop or get the useless Baroness Cathy Ashton to issue a statement. To them and even their politicians, the interests of Russia and the Russian people come first as they should as opposed to what a bunch of western navel-gazers think of it.

I’m sure the Russians will care when they can’t afford to buy bread due to their money being worthless. I’m sure the Russians will care when their neighbouring countries dwarf them in development. I’m not so sure Putin will care though, if that’s who you’re talking about.

[-:Undertaker:-]

How do I know that there’s a lot of propaganda in Russia? You can see evidence of it all over the net, heck I’ve just provided a video from a one second google search which shows signs comparing Ukraine to the Nazis. The fact that the state runs the media also screams propaganda. You keep pointing out that there’s propaganda in the west, of course there is. There’s propaganda everywhere. If you think the propaganda and corruption in the UK is anything matching the levels in Russia then I’ve lost all hope for you.

No you don't get it, maybe I worded badly - I mean how do you know every anti-Putin video circulated on the internet is the whole truth and nothing but the truth. The point is, you don't know. I have no doubt the Russian Government engages in propaganda, as well as maintaining a strong state (there's never been a Russia without) as well as being immensely corrupt: but at the same time the west is pumped full of propaganda too just not as crude as in Russia.


So perhaps making blanket statements to simplify a complex topic isn’t the best way to end your post.

That would be you trying to belittle my point about support for Putin's social policies which are popular in Russia.


liberalism - a political or social philosophy advocating the freedom of the individual, parliamentary systems of government, nonviolent modification of political, social, or economic institutions to assure unrestricted development in all spheres of human endeavour, and governmental guarantees of individual rights and civil liberties.

Yeah, I think people those that oppose equal rights and the equal treatment of people are either uneducated or lack empathy.

I'm a libertarian, you don't need to tell me that. Russia though by world standards is a fairly western or liberal state, just it is more conservative with policies like Section 28: that doesn't make it akin to Saudi Arabia or a non-liberal state. There's degrees of liberalism.

A Russian could look on at our smoking ban as fundementally illiberal, as I do.


Not really since I’m not the one invading and annexing another sovereign nation.

It's a bit more complex than that, it is clear to anyone with a grasp of global politics that the borders of the Ukraine were a historical mistake and were only kept in check whilst Ukraine remained more within the Russian sphere of influence (as it always has been in) - that was until your beloved European Union (German power) started the age old struggle in Eastern Europe for influence, of which Russia views as an assault on its geopolitical position in the world.

Another EU folly, poke the Russian bear and you'll get a response believe it or not. That's realpolitik.


So you do think there’s more propaganda in the UK than Russia?

In terms of hard propaganda, no. In terms of soft or cultural propaganda? aye.


Putin is solely to blame for the consequences. If a burglar is shot and killed you wouldn’t blame the homeowner for their death, you would blame the criminal. If a rapist is killed in self defence you wouldn’t blame the victim for their death, you would blame the rapist. If a country invades another and is economically ruined by sanctions imposed on it in retaliation then you wouldn’t blame the countries issuing the sanctions, you would blame Putin and whoever else is responsible for Russians military actions in Ukraine.

As above.


I’m sure the Russians will care when they can’t afford to buy bread due to their money being worthless. I’m sure the Russians will care when their neighbouring countries dwarf them in development. I’m not so sure Putin will care though, if that’s who you’re talking about.

Often sanctions have the opposite effect intended and stabilise the government/regime, just look at Cuba.