Donations top $100,000 for Washington florist who refused to serve gay wedding

[-:Undertaker:-]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/northamerica/usa/11518410/Donations-top-67100-for-Washington-florist-who-refused-to-serve-gay-wedding.html

Donations top £67,100 ($100,000) for Washington florist who refused to serve gay wedding

Barronelle Stutzman, owner of Arlene's Flowers, did not sell a gay couple flowers because of her religious beliefs


http://i.telegraph.co.uk/multimedia/archive/03257/Barronelle-Stutzma_3257714b.jpg

Barronelle Stutzman, owner of Arlene's Flowers



Supporters have raised more than $100,000 (£67,100) to pay the legal fees of a Washington (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/northamerica/usa/) state florist who was sued for refusing to sell a gay couple flowers for their wedding because of her religious beliefs, an online donation site said on Monday.


Friends of Barronelle Stutzman, owner of Arlene's Flowers in the southeastern city of Richland, launched the donation drive on the Gofundme.com site last month, saying the money would also be used to help protect her small business.

"The 70-year-old grandmother may lose her business, her home, and her savings - because she stood for her faith, she could lose everything she owns," the site said. Ms Stutzman refused to provide flowers for the 2013 wedding of her long-time customers, Robert Ingersoll and Curt Freed, saying the same-sex nuptials went against her Southern Baptist faith.


http://i.telegraph.co.uk/multimedia/archive/03257/Barronelle-Stutzma_3257715b.jpg


Ms Stutzman referred the couple to another florist who provided the arrangements for the ceremony.

Both the couple and Washington state Attorney General Bob Ferguson sued Ms Stutzman, saying her refusal to do business with the couple on the basis of their sexual orientation was illegal.

In March, a Benton County judge fined Ms Stutzman $1,000 plus $1 for court costs after ruling that she had violated state anti-discrimination and consumer protection laws. The couple is also seeking damages and fees, court records show.

Ms Stutzman in February declined a settlement offer from the attorney general that would have ended future litigation, saying she was protecting her right to free exercise of religion. The crowd-funding effort for Ms Stutzman comes as a similar online donation drive last week netted more than $840,000 for an Indiana pizza shop that came under intense criticism after one of its owners said she would not cater a gay wedding because of her religious beliefs.

Great news, tempted to donate myself.

The gay lobby are really pushing their luck in going after good standing citizens like this.

Thoughts?

[FlyingJesus]

omf I should open a shop and refuse to sell to people it seems to be a better business plan than actually selling stuff

[The Don]

Dan why on earth would you be tempted to donate money to a woman who would discriminate against you?

[Aiden]

Guess that's 100k worth of attention more to discrimination of LGBT people :)

[-:Undertaker:-]

Dan why on earth would you be tempted to donate money to a woman who would discriminate against you?

Defence of liberty. My wants and feelings don't triumph over the civil liberties of others.

The fund now stands at $112,000 (http://www.gofundme.com/Arlenesflowers).

[FlyingJesus]

idgi can't people refuse business on any grounds anyway if you own the place

[The Don]

idgi can't people refuse business on any grounds anyway if you own the place

nope, not in her state anyway


Freedom from discrimination — Declaration of civil rights.

(1) The right to be free from discrimination because of race, creed, color, national origin, sex, honorably discharged veteran or military status, sexual orientation, or the presence of any sensory, mental, or physical disability or the use of a trained dog guide or service animal by a person with a disability is recognized as and declared to be a civil right. This right shall include, but not be limited to:


(a ) The right to obtain and hold employment without discrimination;

(b) The right to the full enjoyment of any of the accommodations, advantages, facilities, or privileges of any place of public resort, accommodation, assemblage, or amusement;

(c) The right to engage in real estate transactions without discrimination, including discrimination against families with children;

(d) The right to engage in credit transactions without discrimination;

(e) The right to engage in insurance transactions or transactions with health maintenance organizations without discrimination: PROVIDED, That a practice which is not unlawful under RCW 48.30.300, 48.44.220, or 48.46.370 does not constitute an unfair practice for the purposes of this subparagraph;

(f) The right to engage in commerce free from any discriminatory boycotts or blacklists. Discriminatory boycotts or blacklists for purposes of this section shall be defined as the formation or execution of any express or implied agreement, understanding, policy or contractual arrangement for economic benefit between any persons which is not specifically authorized by the laws of the United States and which is required or imposed, either directly or indirectly, overtly or covertly, by a foreign government or foreign person in order to restrict, condition, prohibit, or interfere with or in order to exclude any person or persons from any business relationship on the basis of race, color, creed, religion, sex, honorably discharged veteran or military status, sexual orientation, the presence of any sensory, mental, or physical disability, or the use of a trained dog guide or service animal by a person with a disability, or national origin or lawful business relationship: PROVIDED HOWEVER, That nothing herein contained shall prohibit the use of boycotts as authorized by law pertaining to labor disputes and unfair labor practices; and

(g) The right of a mother to breastfeed her child in any place of public resort, accommodation, assemblage, or amusement.
http://apps.leg.wa.gov/rcw/default.aspx?cite=49.60.030

so she did actually break the law

[Chippiewill]

I guess she should be able to not make flowers for a black wedding too then..

[lRhyss]

Defence of liberty. My wants and feelings don't triumph over the civil liberties of others.

The fund now stands at $112,000 (http://www.gofundme.com/Arlenesflowers).
You're ****** up in the head dude

[Becca]

i would've **** all over her shop floor then ripped all of her flowers up
idc if it's on a religious bias, it's 2015 she needs to get a grip

[FlyingJesus]

Oh I'm not saying that you should be able to go "nah you're gay get out and die on the way" or whatever, but I thought that the owners of fully private businesses were under no real obligation to provide a service they don't want to provide. As a designer I'm quite free to turn down any and all jobs that don't take my fancy - it'd be stupid to do so because then I wouldn't have any work ever, but I'm not legally forced to darn everyone's socks (not that I know how to darn socks, what darning is, or whether socks still get darned) just because I pretend I'm competent with a needle

[Lewis]

What a pathetic person, the same goes for those who are donating this undeserving money to her.

I'm curious what would have happened if she refused it to a black man and a white woman getting married, I'm pretty sure (although I could be wrong) that the bible also teaches that two different races should not be together.

[Kardan]

Presumably if the woman in question just refused and made no comment on the fact that she refused because they were gay - it wouldn't be an issue?

[FlyingJesus]

Why can't all flower shops be this friendly

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kOdjtiOMGbA

[GommeInc]

Both sides need shooting. Why you would give money to someone with poor business practices is ludicrous, and why you would sue a company not serving you when alternatives are available is absurd. If she's stupid to not want business then let her business fail by reputation alone.

[FlyingJesus]

Absolutely agree with all of that except maybe the shooting because I am not very violent :P whilst I don't think places like McDonalds or whatever should be able to say "nope you're not eating here you're a gayer" because I don't know of any religious scripture that says gays can't eat, but not wanting to cater or serve for a specific event that you don't agree with should be down to the business owners however stupid it may be. If someone doesn't want to provide flowers for a ceremony that offends them it's really no different to a graphic artist turning down an offer from WBC for a new "God hates ****" poster design on the grounds that you don't agree with what your product is being used for

[buttons]

from what i know from actually talking to religious people and not just shouting GAY BASHERS at them is that many think being gay is FINE but that their religion dictates that marriage is between a man and a woman. that's not because they think "ew gays are gross" but that marriage is a sacred thing for them and that is how it has always been. so who do we offend, religious people or gay people? i know that times are changing and religion is becoming less important but you have to remember that people her age probably don't accept change that well particularly since they've been brought up that way for life. again, it's not because they're gay (since they were long-time customers of her, she probably knew) but because they're taking away something her religion thinks of as sacred. a civil partnership probz wouldn't bother her.



and Lewis; a quick google told me the bible said not to marry people of other races because they worship 'false gods', not because they were diff colours?

[FlyingJesus]

^ yarp the Bible only ever really mentions anything about "race" as Jewish or gentile, never anything about skin colour

[AgnesIO]

from what i know from actually talking to religious people and not just shouting GAY BASHERS at them is that many think being gay is FINE but that their religion dictates that marriage is between a man and a woman. that's not because they think "ew gays are gross" but that marriage is a sacred thing for them and that is how it has always been. so who do we offend, religious people or gay people? i know that times are changing and religion is becoming less important but you have to remember that people her age probably don't accept change that well particularly since they've been brought up that way for life. again, it's not because they're gay (since they were long-time customers of her, she probably knew) but because they're taking away something her religion thinks of as sacred. a civil partnership probz wouldn't bother her.



and @Lewis (http://www.habboxforum.com/member.php?u=70869); a quick google told me the bible said not to marry people of other races because they worship 'false gods', not because they were diff colours?

Amen to this. People referring to race are being ridiculous. Marriage to many is between man and woman. That is a perfectly legitimate view in my opinion.

- - - Updated - - -


What a pathetic person, the same goes for those who are donating this undeserving money to her.

I'm curious what would have happened if she refused it to a black man and a white woman getting married, I'm pretty sure (although I could be wrong) that the bible also teaches that two different races should not be together.

The bible refers to the Jewish race, which is somewhat different to skin-related race.

[-:Undertaker:-]

You're ****** up in the head dude

There's no such right to have flowers sold to you.


i would've **** all over her shop floor then ripped all of her flowers up
idc if it's on a religious bias, it's 2015 she needs to get a grip

Isn't that being intolerant? Shouldn't you be celebrating the diversity of opinion?

[Alkaz]

This makes me angry that she refused to serve them and also that the gays are being so sassy and suing her.

[Lewis]

from what i know from actually talking to religious people and not just shouting GAY BASHERS at them is that many think being gay is FINE but that their religion dictates that marriage is between a man and a woman. that's not because they think "ew gays are gross" but that marriage is a sacred thing for them and that is how it has always been. so who do we offend, religious people or gay people? i know that times are changing and religion is becoming less important but you have to remember that people her age probably don't accept change that well particularly since they've been brought up that way for life. again, it's not because they're gay (since they were long-time customers of her, she probably knew) but because they're taking away something her religion thinks of as sacred. a civil partnership probz wouldn't bother her.



and @Lewis (http://www.habboxforum.com/member.php?u=70869); a quick google told me the bible said not to marry people of other races because they worship 'false gods', not because they were diff colours?


Amen to this. People referring to race are being ridiculous. Marriage to many is between man and woman. That is a perfectly legitimate view in my opinion.

- - - Updated - - -



The bible refers to the Jewish race, which is somewhat different to skin-related race.

Fair enough then, my bad :). Nevertheless, I do still find it rather unfair to not do something like that just because of they're gay.

I do think suing her is a bit too much though, however she certainly doesn't deserve the donations even if she has lost out due to being sued.

[Becca]

Isn't that being intolerant? Shouldn't you be celebrating the diversity of opinion?

i respect she has her own views, i know various people who are against gay relationships, are racist and so on but the fact that they've gone out of their way to go to this particular florist for their weddings just to have it thrown back in their faces for being different makes me sick.

[Phil]

I think both need to cop on

[OldLoveSong]

just ridic. just go to a diff florist. if its her business she should be able to say yes or no to whoever she pleases

[Felix]

This lady should be shot.

[-:Undertaker:-]

This lady should be shot.

Because she wouldn't bake a cake?


i respect she has her own views, i know various people who are against gay relationships, are racist and so on but the fact that they've gone out of their way to go to this particular florist for their weddings just to have it thrown back in their faces for being different makes me sick.

There's no such right to have a cake baked for you. I was once denied access to Harrods but oh well, boo hoo, life goes on.

[Felix]

Because she wouldn't bake a cake?



There's no such right to have a cake baked for you. I was once denied access to Harrods but oh well, boo hoo, life goes on.
If you are dumb enough to think that what this ladies done is right. You sir need help.

In my eyes it is people like this that make us realize religion is stupid.

[-:Undertaker:-]

If you are dumb enough to think that what this ladies done is right. You sir need help.

In my eyes it is people like this that make us realize religion is stupid.

Interesting, do you think for example that people like the Westboro Baptist Church who say gay people deserve to be shot should be arrested for hate speech? And if the answer is yes, why does this not apply to yourself when you call for religious people like this lady to be shot purely for not baking a cake?

It's true what is often said, that those who are always quick to preach diversity/tolerance/equality are actually the least likely to practice those things themselves.

[Felix]

Interesting, do you think for example that people like the Westboro Baptist Church who say gay people deserve to be shot should be arrested for hate speech? And if the answer is yes, why does this not apply to yourself when you call for religious people like this lady to be shot purely for not baking a cake?

It's true what is often said, that those who are always quick to preach diversity/tolerance/equality are actually the least likely to practice those things themselves.
It sounds as if you are gay yourself and ashamed to admit it. Don't worry mate, it's OK.

[-:Undertaker:-]

It sounds as if you are gay yourself and ashamed to admit it. Don't worry mate, it's OK.

I may be gay but I wouldn't force somebody to bake me a cake let alone want them shot for it.

[Becca]

It sounds as if you are gay yourself and ashamed to admit it. Don't worry mate, it's OK.

hahahhahahaa i couldn't +rep u again but +rep

[Matt]

Yeah I got confused. Surely now that we're in 2015 this is kind of a backtrack on the whole diversity thing but at the same time we should know by now that not everyone accepts homosexuality and people do need to respect that.


Great news, tempted to donate myself.

I'll be honest, that comment is almost as confusing as your politics threads.

[-:Undertaker:-]

I'll be honest, that comment is almost as confusing as your politics threads.

What confuses you about it?

[Felix]

How come I was -Rep for being homophobic? I was being anything by that FlyingJesus;

[FlyingJesus]

Using "you're gay" as an attack is pretty homophobic. Plus you're just generally being rude and stupid here