BBC 'exposed' over left-wing debate audience, says Ukip

[-:Undertaker:-]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/ukip/11546405/Ukip-says-BBC-exposed-over-left-wing-debate-audience.html

Ukip says BBC 'exposed' over left-wing debate audience

Figures released by BBC show that only 58 members of the audience were Conservative or Ukip supporters compared with about 102 who supported left-leaning parties


http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2015/04/16/22/27A5250100000578-3042531-image-a-25_1429219222537.jpg



Nigel Farage has claimed the BBC has been “exposed” after it was forced to admit that nearly twice as many members of the studio audience for the Challengers’ Debate were "left-wing" as were Conservative or Ukip supporters. The Ukip (http://preview.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/ukip/) leader was booed during Thursday night’s debate after claiming it was a “remarkable audience even by the left-wing standards of the BBC”.

He added on Friday that it was "completely obvious that we did not have an audience reflective of public opinion" and insisted: "I didn't lose my rag." The BBC initially refused to disclose the political make-up of the audience (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/ukip/11544928/BBC-refuses-to-reveal-debate-audience-despite-Ukip-bias-claims.html) but eventually released figures on Friday afternoon. They showed that, of the 200-strong audience, about 58 were Conservative (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/labour/) or Ukip supporters while about 102 supported left-leaning parties - Labour, the Lib Dems, SNP, Plaid Cymru or the SNP – and the rest were undecided.

Mr Farage said: "If you were to put Ukip and the Conservatives on the centre-right in current opinion polls, we are on about 49 per cent between us. If the audience make-up didn't reflect that then it's wrong.” He added: “There was a whole feel to the thing that frankly it wasn't as it was intended to be. It just exposes them [the BBC] and firms up the views of people watching it. I would say it's nul points for the BBC."

Jeremy Hunt, the Conservative health secretary, also questioned the audience make-up, saying: “The need to do something about immigration is something where Nigel Farage was more in touch with the British public than perhaps the studio audience were.” The BBC said that all broadcasters and political parties involved in this year’s live TV debates had agreed for an independent polling organisation to select the audience. The BBC used ICM and “set out clear objectives to ensure there [was] a broad range of political preferences”.

A spokesman said: “We asked the polling company to work to proportions which take account of a number of factors in recruiting the audience – in other words, recent polling figures are only part of the equation. We also look at past electoral support, as well as the different party political make-up in different parts of the UK.”

About 20 per cent of the audience were undecided. Of those who were decided there were five Conservative voters for every five Labour, four Lib Dem, three Ukip, two SNP, two Green and one Plaid Cymru voter, the BBC said. An ITV spokesman said the audience for its seven-way debate reflected the same proportions. James Harding, head of news and current affairs at the BBC, said that the booing of Nigel Farage reflected the audience getting “really engaged”.

Thursday night's debate averaged 4.27 million viewers between 8pm and 9.30pm, according to data from Attentional - down from the 7 million that watched the seven-way leaders debate on ITV.

Bloody KNEW IT.

And this is just going by political party identification too. Apparently the audience was largely selected from the surrounding area aka wealthy areas of London. If you took a typical Labour voter in Islington and a typical Labour voter in say Kent, Yorkshire or Lincolnshire you'd find they had constrasting views on many topics, especially the likes of immigration. The audience was as bent as a nine bob note.

Thoughts?

[The Don]

So out of 6 parties, a third of the audience were supporters of... a third of the parties. The literal definition of a neutral audience.

[-:Undertaker:-]

So out of 6 parties, a third of the audience were supporters of... a third of the parties. The literal definition of a neutral audience.

That isn't representative of the public at all.

If you class Ukip and the Tories as to the 'right' they both have support of around 50% of the Great British public. Yet in this debate, only 58 out of 200 people in that bent audience were supporters of those parties. More to the point and as I said above, political party representation isn't even representative of the public for the reason that if you take a working class voter who usually votes Labour in Yorkshire and a millionaire Labour voter in Islington, you'll have completely different social opinions from them both. So Farage was 100% right when he said that the real audience was sitting at home.

The BBC or ICM have been caught out on this, and even Tories (no friends of Ukip) are pointing it out.

[FlyingJesus]

Let's introduce quotas to ensure proportional representation in all aspects of public life and turn people away if they're too much like the majority of persons... that's what you support, right Dan

[-:Undertaker:-]

Let's introduce quotas to ensure proportional representation in all aspects of public life and turn people away if they're too much like the majority of persons... that's what you support, right Dan

I support audiences of major televised debates being representative of the British public in terms of opinion, that's right.

[Kardan]

Looks like there's far too many Lib Dem voters in there.

Still though, you'd think the 22 or so UKIP supporters in the room would have clapped Farage.

[The Don]

That isn't representative of the public at all.

If you class Ukip and the Tories as to the 'right' they both have support of around 50% of the Great British public. Yet in this debate, only 58 out of 200 people in that bent audience were supporters of those parties. More to the point and as I said above, political party representation isn't even representative of the public for the reason that if you take a working class voter who usually votes Labour in Yorkshire and a millionaire Labour voter in Islington, you'll have completely different social opinions from them both. So Farage was 100% right when he said that the real audience was sitting at home.

The BBC or ICM have been caught out on this, and even Tories (no friends of Ukip) are pointing it out.

What I meant was the audience was filled with a fair amount of supporters from each of the parties to make it neutral. If there are more left-wing parties then of course there will be more left-leaning audience members.

[-:Undertaker:-]

What I meant was the audience was filled with a fair amount of supporters from each of the parties to make it neutral. If there are more left-wing parties then of course there will be more left-leaning audience members.

So if there were 8 left-wing parties which polled 50% of the national vote between them and 2 right-wing parties which also polled 50% of the national vote between them, you'd say it would be fair to have 80% of the audience left wing and the 20% of the audience as right wing?

[scottish]

Seems like a load of moaning and ******** because he lost the debate.

[The Don]

So if there were 8 left-wing parties which polled 50% of the national vote between them and 2 right-wing parties which also polled 50% of the national vote between them, you'd say it would be fair to have 80% of the audience left wing and the 20% of the audience as right wing?

I'm just pointing out that having an equal amount of supporters for each of the parties is neutral and not "as bent as a nine bob note" as you claimed.

[FlyingJesus]

I support audiences of major televised debates being representative of the British public in terms of opinion, that's right.

Which they were, as has been pointed out. Your utterly ridiculous and out-of-touch notion that everyone except for the members of this forum agrees with you even in the face of all evidence to the contrary is rather frustrating and smacks of such fanaticism that it really feels like talking to a Scientologist. You are not in any way a spokesperson for "the people" any more than the views of a cuckoo are representative of the wishes of a thrush. All that you're really saying in this thread is that you need people to pat you on the back for being a complete bigot at all times of the day

[-:Undertaker:-]

Seems like a load of moaning and ******** because he lost the debate.

The poll after the debate had him a close third, with him topping the immigration and defence questions by a large margin.

He may have lost the debate with that audience, but that is what we're talking about really isn't it.


Which they were, as has been pointed out.

So if there were 8 left-wing parties which polled 50% of the national vote between them and 2 right-wing parties which also polled 50% of the national vote between them, you'd say it would be fair to have 80% of the audience left wing and the 20% of the audience as right wing?


Your utterly ridiculous and out-of-touch notion that everyone except for the members of this forum agrees with you even in the face of all evidence to the contrary is rather frustrating and smacks of such fanaticism that it really feels like talking to a Scientologist. You are not in any way a spokesperson for "the people" any more than the views of a cuckoo are representative of the wishes of a thrush. All that you're really saying in this thread is that you need people to pat you on the back for being a complete bigot at all times of the day

I love how when you disagree with me on something, you either twist it completely (like you just did in the other thread claiming I wanted immigration stopped completely) because you know you'll lose and look silly OR you start disputing things like polls on public opinion from respected pollsters because they don't fit your world view. The fact is that I am in the majority on immigration, the EU and foreign aid.

You speak as though I can't accept different opinions, yet I can (unlike you) because I have admitted a gazillion times I am not with the majority of the British public on issues such as the NHS and how the railways are run. Now why can't you do the same for your love of open borders?

[GommeInc]

I thought they were pretty equal. You could tell from the reaction they were. Nigel got applause for a lot of the things he said, as did the others. That said, he was the only right-wing politician out of the lot so any applause is pretty impressive, especially for what apparently was a left-wing audience.

[FlyingJesus]

So if there were 8 left-wing parties which polled 50% of the national vote between them and 2 right-wing parties which also polled 50% of the national vote between them, you'd say it would be fair to have 80% of the audience left wing and the 20% of the audience as right wing?

Could be whatever ratio the first 200 people who turn up happen to be, since the speakers should be capable of answering whatever questions are put to them and should welcome the opportunity to debate a point rather than just have everyone whistle and clap like at a party AGM or something. Also the notion that any of the parties are truly left or right these days is hugely laughable


I love how when you disagree with me on something, you either twist it completely (like you just did in the other thread claiming I wanted immigration stopped completely) because you know you'll lose and look silly OR you start disputing things like polls on public opinion from respected pollsters because they don't fit your world view.

I pointed out quite clearly in that thread what was meant by that point (with citation) and I dispute the value of polls whatever they show because they do just what you're complaining about in this very thread - taking a tiny number of people from a specific area and pretending that it's the entire country. Your hypocrisy is hilarious


The fact is that I am in the majority on immigration, the EU and foreign aid.

Nope, still haven't proved this and have been shown otherwise, but you ignored all of that in order to attack semantics and move on to completely different points


Now why can't you do the same for your love of open borders?

Dunno what you're on about, I don't love open borders. Never have said so, have often told you that I don't, and yet you still insist that anyone who points out your lunacy must be an EU loving communist

[-:Undertaker:-]

What is the point of copying and pasting links on social attitudes to you Tom when everytime I do, all you can do it turn around and say that the pollsters are wrong and that 1,000 voters isn't representative of the entire country when we know that polls, weightings and demographics are pretty accurate.

I know the majority are for controlled immigration and you only have to look at how Farage has the mainstream leaders scared witless to see they know it too.

[FlyingJesus]

Polls are totes accurate that's why the results of them change all the time according to what week you take them, who asks the questions, and who they ask *+*+*+* if I took 50 polls with different results all the time I too could say that I was right about one of them. Good job agaiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiin avoiding all of the real points though, true champion

[-:Undertaker:-]

Polls are totes accurate that's why the results of them change all the time according to what week you take them, who asks the questions, and who they ask *+*+*+* if I took 50 polls with different results all the time I too could say that I was right about one of them. Good job agaiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiin avoiding all of the real points though, true champion

Polls are usually accurate, thats right.

That's why pollsters are making millions every year and you're sat here on HxF arguing with me.


Could be whatever ratio the first 200 people who turn up happen to be

That just goes to show how you don't understand polling.

Ever heard of weightings? If you went into the wealthy shires and said the first 100 people through the door in an elderly village were your audience, that wouldn't be representative of the audience and they'd all probably support the Conservatives and be socially conservative. That isn't a mirror of the UK.

[FlyingJesus]

Why are you using my response about seating in a TV show to talk about how polls work? That's extremely disingenuous of you, even slanderous frankly

And most polls cannot ever be proven right because they happen in the middle of nothing. The only polls that can ever be shown a proper or improper representation of the polls of the 99% that haven't been asked anything would be ones taken on the same day as a vote, and would therefore be totally pointless as the votes themselves would show what people think

[-:Undertaker:-]

BBC has all of a sudden decided to give Farage his own programme just as they are with Cameron, Miliband and Clegg.

http://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/571294/Nigel-Farage-Ukip-BBC-debate-fixed-Question-Time
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election-2015-32360958

Victory for Ukip: BBC backs down and gives Farage his own TV show after debate fix row

THE BBC has backed down and given Ukip leader Nigel Farage his own TV slot to answer audience questions amid allegations that yesterday's debate was fixed.


He will take audience questions in a 30-minute programme called Election 2015: Ask Nigel Farage.

The discussion, held in Birmingham, will air after the News at 10 and will be chaired by journalist Jo Coburn.

It will be held at the same time as a Question Time special featuring the Tory, Labour and Liberal Democrat leaders who will take turns answering questions from the same audience in Leeds.

A Ukip insider raised questions over the timing of the announcement from the BBC amid a growing bias storm engulfing the broadcaster.

On hearing the news that Farage will get his own 30-minute broadcast, a party spokesman said: "Nigel Farage is delighted to accept the BBC's invitation (http://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/571294/Nigel-Farage-Ukip-BBC-debate-fixed-Question-Time#) to once again engage with the British public."

In Scotland, SNP leader Nicola Sturgeon will face a similar programme in Glasgow, chaired by Glen Campbell.

Meanwhile Leanne Wood, the Plaid Cymru leader, will do the same in Cardiff.

All of the programmes will be broadcast on Thursday April 30 - exactly one week before polling day.

[FlyingJesus]

Not actually to do with his tantrum at all since it's being given to the other smaller parties too, and it's nothing to do with "backing down" since it was never requested and denied in the first place. Let's not sensationalise absolutely everything and call it a victory when it's playing second fiddle to the actual QT show lol

[-:Undertaker:-]

Not actually to do with his tantrum at all since it's being given to the other smaller parties too, and it's nothing to do with "backing down" since it was never requested and denied in the first place. Let's not sensationalise absolutely everything and call it a victory when it's playing second fiddle to the actual QT show lol

Farage wasn't getting one, this is the first we've heard of it today.

The Beeb had to be pressured, if you read the Telegraph article, into releasing the audience statistics in the first place. A climb down.

[FlyingJesus]

Being asked to do something and then near enough immediately doing it isn't a climb down due to pressure, it's doing something that people wanted that they obviously hadn't though was necessary before and that they then had no problem with. Big stink being made over nothing at all, but what more can we expect from supporters of extremist parties

[-:Undertaker:-]

Being asked to do something and then near enough immediately doing it isn't a climb down due to pressure, it's doing something that people wanted that they obviously hadn't though was necessary before and that they then had no problem with. Big stink being made over nothing at all

Allllllllllll just happened to be a coincidence that he was granted a slot the day after they were caught out. Right.


but what more can we expect from supporters of extremist parties

Oh come on, you're gonna have to do better than that.

Nowadays people don't consider it extreme to want an Australian style border controls system or bringing back grammar schools. What they do find an extreme position is allowing in 300,000 people a year, bombing Iraq resulting in hundreds of thousands dead and covering up child abuse in Rotherham.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mu8bmMrfMYw


Inside the mind of FlyingJesus.

[FlyingJesus]

Also known as the day after it happened :S you're really reaching here. People asked the BBC for something to happen, they immediately made it happen without worry. They're not the red army bogeyman that you try making them out to be

COINCIDENCE?????? I THINK NOT!!!! OPEN YOUR EYES!!!! - the call of the conspiracy theorist in the face of genuine harmless coincidence