Unfair working condition.

[Alkaz]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-3057499/Watch-moment-shoppers-offered-chance-buy-two-euro-T-shirts-vending-machine-shown-shocking-images-women-paid-9p-HOUR.html

I read this earlier. What are your thoughts on this? It's hard to really gage an opinion as they give no reference to other standard wages in the country. I mean its kind of like someone here being paid £6.50 an hour to make Kanye Wests plain white £140 t-shirts. I understand that they should probably be being paid more money but then again surely some income is better than no income, how else are they going to feed their families?

[lemons]

obviously some income is better than no income but the income is so small it might as well be 0 but they only work for this money because they're some of the only jobs available in developing countries where cheap labour is exploited

people say pressure should be put on the sweatshop owners and the governments but why would they want to change something which is doing wonders for their businesses and the economy? they will just keep relocating to places where labour is cheap

also it's so annoying how things like this try to make US the consumer feel guilty about buying products made in these conditions + i don't see why those t-shirts still couldn't have been given to them!

[Alkaz]

You make a good point about the manufacturers making us feel guilty. Its them who're paying these minuscule wages and charging us through the roof for the end product.

[peteyt]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-3057499/Watch-moment-shoppers-offered-chance-buy-two-euro-T-shirts-vending-machine-shown-shocking-images-women-paid-9p-HOUR.html

I read this earlier. What are your thoughts on this? It's hard to really gage an opinion as they give no reference to other standard wages in the country. I mean its kind of like someone here being paid £6.50 an hour to make Kanye Wests plain white £140 t-shirts. I understand that they should probably be being paid more money but then again surely some income is better than no income, how else are they going to feed their families?

The problem is this is nothing new and there's been a lot of things on TV, Think BBC3 had a sweatshop programme which took shoppers from the UK over to witness the working conditions. And that's the problem - some money is better than none, but they are working for basically nothing in bad conditions and without any time really. But people know about this and just choose to ignore it. I wonder if most people choose to donate simply because they were put on the spot and under pressure.

One issue is if people start to become a lot more aware and avoid certain clothing - what then happens to the people working in the sweatshops - would they become poor and maybe homeless with no income? Rather than making us feel guilty these countries governments should do more to protect its citizens but most are sadly corrupt and our country has its own issues.

[dbgtz]

It should also be pointed out that, although small to us, would probably go much further in their country.

[AgnesIO]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-3057499/Watch-moment-shoppers-offered-chance-buy-two-euro-T-shirts-vending-machine-shown-shocking-images-women-paid-9p-HOUR.html

I read this earlier. What are your thoughts on this? It's hard to really gage an opinion as they give no reference to other standard wages in the country. I mean its kind of like someone here being paid £6.50 an hour to make Kanye Wests plain white £140 t-shirts. I understand that they should probably be being paid more money but then again surely some income is better than no income, how else are they going to feed their families?

Not really a fair comparison. Being paid £6.50 an hour would enable you to buy a Kanye West plain white t-shirt relatively quickly (even after costs), the lowest sweatshop wages in Bangladesh (where those photos appear to be from?) are not close to living on (hence why children often end up working, too).


obviously some income is better than no income but the income is so small it might as well be 0 but they only work for this money because they're some of the only jobs available in developing countries where cheap labour is exploited

people say pressure should be put on the sweatshop owners and the governments but why would they want to change something which is doing wonders for their businesses and the economy? they will just keep relocating to places where labour is cheap

also it's so annoying how things like this try to make US the consumer feel guilty about buying products made in these conditions + i don't see why those t-shirts still couldn't have been given to them!

I'd disagree with parts here. The income is tiny, but that IS still better than 0.

The consumer needs to be the one to take action - we cannot rely on capitalist companies to make the change; the changes only arise when consumers demand it (just look at the fast food industry for a recent example!).


You make a good point about the manufacturers making us feel guilty. Its them who're paying these minuscule wages and charging us through the roof for the end product.

View my point above.

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I guess it is a strong video, although I cannot believe 9 out of 10 people were not already aware that vast quantities of their goods are made in this way. I guess these people didn't tweet about this on their iPhones, or read their Kindles in the evening - or maybe message friends on their Samsung tablets...

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It should also be pointed out that, although small to us, would probably go much further in their country.

Sweatshop wages are still awful, even in their native countries.

[dbgtz]

Not really a fair comparison. Being paid £6.50 an hour would enable you to buy a Kanye West plain white t-shirt relatively quickly (even after costs), the lowest sweatshop wages in Bangladesh (where those photos appear to be from?) are not close to living on (hence why children often end up working, too).



I'd disagree with parts here. The income is tiny, but that IS still better than 0.

The consumer needs to be the one to take action - we cannot rely on capitalist companies to make the change; the changes only arise when consumers demand it (just look at the fast food industry for a recent example!).



View my point above.

----


I guess it is a strong video, although I cannot believe 9 out of 10 people were not already aware that vast quantities of their goods are made in this way. I guess these people didn't tweet about this on their iPhones, or read their Kindles in the evening - or maybe message friends on their Samsung tablets...

- - - Updated - - -



Sweatshop wages are still awful, even in their native countries.

I'm not saying it's great, just that it goes further.

[Alkaz]

Okay so maybe my calculations were a little out, these people are being paid 9p an hour, to buy that £1.40 tshirt featured in the article they would have to work 15 hours. For an adult (over 21) in this country to be able to buy a Kanye West t-shirt at $120 whilst living on the minimum wage they'd have to work 12 hours.

Everyone should be paid a living wage, I'm not debating that it's just the fact that as others have stated, something is better than nothing and it's all to easy to say ''oh close the factories down'', whilst you're sitting there on the internet, on your fancy laptop, in the warmth of your home and also knowing when you're going to get your next meal.

[AgnesIO]

Okay so maybe my calculations were a little out, these people are being paid 9p an hour, to buy that £1.40 tshirt featured in the article they would have to work 15 hours. For an adult (over 21) in this country to be able to buy a Kanye West t-shirt at $120 whilst living on the minimum wage they'd have to work 12 hours.

Everyone should be paid a living wage, I'm not debating that it's just the fact that as others have stated, something is better than nothing and it's all to easy to say ''oh close the factories down'', whilst you're sitting there on the internet, on your fancy laptop, in the warmth of your home and also knowing when you're going to get your next meal.

This shows a relatively basic understanding of economics though. When you are on a considerably lower wage, what you spend your money on changes dramatically (although what you spend it on may not be what most people assume!). Also, that £1.40 t-shirt would be much cheaper over in Bangladesh, but then other costs are disproportionately different to over here.

If you read my post, I am definitely not saying 'close the factories down, everyone is evil, meals' etc; if you knew me at all, you'd know that definitely isn't me, and my understanding of people in these situations is almost certainly a lot better than most people on this forum.

Sadly, it is far to simplistic to do direct calculations like your post has here.

As a side note, Poor Economics is an excellent read, and discusses some of the ideas in this thread.

[FlyingJesus]

So... they employed a sweatshop to make them cheap tshirts in order to prove a point about how bad it is that people employ sweatshops to make cheap tshirts? Reminds me of the THIS IS WHAT A FEMINIST LOOKS LIKE tshirts that were out a couple of months ago which claimed to be promoting equality in the west but were being made by genuinely oppressed factory slaves overseas

[Alkaz]

Firstly I did read your post and I didn't say you said close the factories and I have literally never spoken to you on or outside of the forum so how would I know that comment 'isn't you'?

My calculations were purely to try and give some perspective. I myself work my fingers to the bone (not literally :rolleyes:) just the other day I worked 36 hours over a 48 hour period. The work I am in is quite obviously not the same as their work but if someone came in and said I can no longer do X work or I can only work X amount of hours a day then I would quite literally be screwed and I myself would not be able to afford to simply survive. I'm not saying everyone is going around buying £80 tshirts whilst on minimum wage, as I just said it was purely to give perspective on the 9p hourly wage compared to the £1.40 tshirt being sold from the machine.

I also do have a basic understanding of economics, like I imagine most of the country do, we can't all be economics genius'. I never had an interest in that at school, hence my artsy fartsy degree.

[-:Undertaker:-]

Any boycotting or raising of wages in the third world (other than by natural market forces) actually keeps the people there in poverty for longer for the simple reason that the more regulations or costs added to production, the more likely companies are to move away or at least not invest as much into that said country. Post-colonial India and post-Mao China are the best example of this, India implemented a largely socialist constitution with workers rights, regulations etc which was said to protect workers and post-Mao China dropped all of this under Deng Xioping: as a result India has grown very slowly and China very fast, and the Chinese workers and nation in general have ended up far wealthier and better off than those granted those 'rights' by law in India.

Happy to say however that India has learnt and since the 1990s has been repealing regulations/taxes/'rights' which has led to an increase in growth. However, it remains an overly bureacratic and many of the 'rights' won't be removed as it is a democracy where as China doesn't have that problem to contend with.