'Islamophobia' - Ed Miliband pledges to make criticism of Islam a thought crime

[-:Undertaker:-]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/ed-miliband/11570745/The-price-that-Ed-Miliband-is-prepared-to-pay-to-win-the-Muslim-vote.html

The price that Ed Miliband is prepared to pay to win the Muslim vote

The Labour leader's pledge to redefine Islamophobia as an aggravated crime will be cheered by child sex-grooming gangs in Rotherham and election-stealers in Tower Hamlets


http://i.telegraph.co.uk/multimedia/archive/03275/EdMilifesto_3275966b.jpg
Ed Miliband thinks Islamophobia should be an aggravated crime


’Tis the election season (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/general-election-2015/), so promises fall from the lips of our leaders over key voting groups like blossom from an apple tree. Some promises are more cynical and stinky than others.

Take Ed Miliband, who told Muslim News (http://www.muslimnews.co.uk/newspaper/top-stories/labour-to-outlaw-islamophobia-says-miliband-in-an-exclusive-interview) last week that a future Labour (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/labour/) government would outlaw Islamophobia, making it an aggravated crime. “We are going to make sure it is marked on people’s records, with the police to make sure they root out Islamophobia as a hate crime,” said Miliband. “We are going to change the law so we make it absolutely clear of [sic] our abhorrence of hate crime and Islamophobia. It will be the first time that the police will record Islamophobic attacks right across the country.”

This is deeply disturbing. Do you reckon the Labour leader has read any of the recent reports into child-sex grooming gangs (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/crime/11469437/Rochdale-child-grooming-7-police-officers-involved-in-failed-investigation-will-not-disciplined.html)? You know, the ones that concluded that the main reason local authorities, police and social services did nothing to protect thousands of young girls from abuse at the hands of mainly Pakistani men was because they were afraid of appearing racist?

One taxi driver actually laughed as he informed his victim that her complaints would be in vain because “they won’t dare touch us”. He was absolutely right. Shamefully, fear of alienating “the community” has guided the behaviour of Labour councils in parts of the country that have become bywords for the rape, torture and trafficking of mainly vulnerable white girls.


592948958177140736



Far from focusing on Islamophobia, Mr Miliband should be directing Labour apparatchiks, brainwashed about the joys of multiculturalism, to root out the hate crime of misogyny, still considered acceptable by so many in “the community”. A phobia is an irrational fear.

It’s perfectly rational to be outraged by the figures that follow: Rochdale 65, Rotherham 1,400, Newcastle 93, Manchester 650, Derby 27... and on and on, in pain and infamy. These figures are the recorded instances of vile abuse against girls in Labour areas that rely on the Muslim vote. When tallied up, the tally stands at well in excess of 4,000 children.

As Denis McShane, former Labour MP for Rotherham, has admitted “misplaced racial sensitivity” – aka fear of being seen as “Islamophobic” – prevented him from burrowing into the widespread sexual abuse allegations and the oppression of women in the Muslim community. A group of “influential Pakistani councillors” in Rotherham were accused of blocking attempts to tackle the abuse and also of meddling in domestic abuse cases involving Asian woman.


http://i.telegraph.co.uk/multimedia/archive/02214/rochdale_2214849b.jpg
(Top) Adil Khan, Mohammed Amin, Abdul Rauf, Mohammed Sajid; (bottom) Abdul Aziz, Abdul Qayyum, Hamid Safi and Kabeer Hassan were convicted for grooming girls for sex in Rochdale



A new aggravated crime of “Islamophobia” makes it even less likely that such brutes will be outed. Meanwhile, if Ed Miliband has anything to do with it, I too will have my name recorded by the police. Back in February, I wrote an article here about Britain’s first elected Muslim mayor, Lutfur Rahman (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/islamic-state/11390257/Voter-fraud.-Animal-abuse.-FGM.-Here.-In-our-country..html), who was clearly running Tower Hamlets in east London as if it were some personal fiefdom in Bangladesh (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/bangladesh/). Mr Rahman was accused of “subverting democracy” and “systematically stealing votes”. Muslim voters were warmed that it was “unIslamic” not to vote for him. Anyone who dared to challenge the Mayor’s shocking behaviour was branded – wait for it – Islamophobic.

The police did almost nothing to investigate allegations of widespread electoral fraud. It fell to four local individuals to bring Rahman to court and to that superb journalist, Andrew Gilligan (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/journalists/andrew-gilligan/) of this parish, to keep up the pressure.

After my article appeared, the Telegraph received a lengthy complaint from an organisation called Tower Hamlets First, which demanded a prominently printed apology to Rahman, and described my piece on him as “thoroughly contemptible in the moral sense”. Most amusing.


592731053082677248



It was a relief, though hardly a surprise, when Election Commissioner Richard Mawrey, who sat as a judge in the High Court, ruled last week that Rahman played “race” and “religious” cards, and was guilty of corruption and illegal practices (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/11558666/Lutfur-Rahman-the-election-scandal-made-worse-by-the-authorities.html). Mayor Rahman’s election was declared void and the judge described “an alarming state of affairs in Tower Hamlets driven by the ruthless ambitions of one man”.

If Ed Miliband’s new hard line on Islamophobia becomes law, men like Rahman could thrive unchallenged and our country will be even less able to defend itself against practices and customs that we find utterly abhorrent. Does the Labour leader prefer to offer comfort to the Lutfur Rahmans, or should he, instead, be helping abused girls from the working class that his party was set up to protect? Is that a price you’re willing to pay, Ed, to keep the Muslim vote onside? Really?

If Miliband’s definition of Islamophobia includes shouting until one’s last breath against the disgusting chauvinists who prey on young girls and treat women as second-class citizens, then please do count me in. I’d gladly go to jail for that. The alternative, you see, is throroughly contemptible in the moral sense.

BEST article i've read in years. And like Allison Pearson, I'm islamophobic.

I don't want to live in Islamic society or one that Islam has a big sway over, and being gay for me it's a question of survival when it comes down to it.

Now some left wing heads are gonna explode with this article, so let's see what they have to say: or don't have to say. I can't wait.

Thoughts?

[Firehorse]

And this while hostility towards Jews goes largely ignored, ironic seeing as Mr Miliband is himself from a Jewish family.

Someone could criticise me for being Agnostic, and it wouldn't be criminal. Someone could criticise someone for being Christian/Hindu/Jewish/Sikh etc and it wouldn't be considered criminal, yet Miliband proposes specifically criticism of Islam to be made a crime? Outrageous double standards.

Nothing but an attempt to secure the Muslim vote for Labour.

[Earthquake]

lol what next for this pathetic once great country? islams allowed front of the que anywhere? islams allowed to to sit at the front of the bus while we are thrown to the back? ban the extremist religion!

[Kardan]

lol what next for this pathetic once great country? islams allowed front of the que anywhere? islams allowed to to sit at the front of the bus while we are thrown to the back? ban the extremist religion!

...Really?

[-:Undertaker:-]

...Really?

Well that's usually how Islam tends to treat everybody else when it is in the majority.

[Earthquake]

...Really?

Yes really. this is not an Islamic country.

[Firehorse]

...Really?

A lesser version of this is already happening in Labour-run Brent.

Christian holiday? You still have to pay to park near all places of worship.
Jewish holiday? You still have to pay to park near all places of worship.
Hindu festival? You still have to pay to park near all places of worship.
Islamic holiday? Parking is made free outside Mosques to accommodate Muslims attending service.

Also, you might remember this man (http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2015/may/01/met-to-examine-allegations-of-electoral-by-former-tower-hamlets-mayor), who was found to be reducing funding for various projects and religious groups in order to push it sideways for the benefit specifically of Islamic groups and projects; this on-top of allegations of electoral fraud.

Does anyone see equality here?

[FlyingJesus]

Seems a bit vague on what they're actually planning to make illegal - could well just be that they'll now be branding actual physical attacks and harassment against Muslims as "Islamophobic" marking them up from singularities to incensed hate crimes, the same way racial attacks and targeted homophobic attacks are. I can't see them being able to actually make something as simple as speaking out illegal, it would never get through the houses.

Also on the subject of protection of Jews, the article does cover that:
"Labour Party Manifesto pledged to take a “zero-tolerance approach to hate crime” regarding the growth of Islamophobia as well as anti-Semitism"

[Kardan]

Well that's usually how Islam tends to treat everybody else when it is in the majority.

So you're saying that if I go to a place where Islam is the majority religion then I would have to sit at the back of a bus and I would get pushed in front of in queues?

- - - Updated - - -


Yes really. this is not an Islamic country.

No it's not, and a person isn't an 'islam' either.

[Earthquake]

So you're saying that if I go to a place where Islam is the majority religion then I would have to sit at the back of a bus and I would get pushed in front of in queues?

- - - Updated - - -



No it's not, and a person isn't an 'islam' either.

No & yes, but if you drink in public, have your wife drive a car, kiss in public, you could face prison?

[Kardan]

No & yes, but if you drink in public, have your wife drive a car, kiss in public, you could face prison?

In certain places in certain circumstances - yes. But not in this country.

[Earthquake]

In certain places in certain circumstances - yes. But not in this country.

and that is what they are going to try and do over here, very slowly but eventually.

even ice-cream vans, burger vans at a funfair run by travelers, have ''Halal meat'' written on them. That tells me that they are having a massive influence on our way of life.

[AgnesIO]

And this while hostility towards Jews goes largely ignored, ironic seeing as Mr Miliband is himself from a Jewish family.

Someone could criticise me for being Agnostic, and it wouldn't be criminal. Someone could criticise someone for being Christian/Hindu/Jewish/Sikh etc and it wouldn't be considered criminal, yet Miliband proposes specifically criticism of Islam to be made a crime? Outrageous double standards.

Nothing but an attempt to secure the Muslim vote for Labour.

Antisemitism is mentioned in the article. Nice try, though.

Not being able to criticise Christians? That's what happens in a society where the majority are Christian. It's like not being able to criticise gay people, but being free to criticise straight people...


No & yes, but if you drink in public, have your wife drive a car, kiss in public, you could face prison?

What's wrong with banning alcohol? The only reason it is allowed anywhere else is because it makes huge sums of money in tax revenue...

Saudi Arabia is the only country where women are not allowed to drive.

But no, you will not be treated badly if you visit almost any country in the world for not being muslim. Sorry, you are just wrong.

----

In response to the embarrassing thread, here's some (not) muslim paedophiles for you to get angry over.

http://i.guim.co.uk/media/w-620/h--/q-95/926121804845770a6cb74d5d47e0dc158e472d29/0_0_2560_1536/1000.jpg

- - - Updated - - -


and that is what they are going to try and do over here, very slowly but eventually.

even ice-cream vans, burger vans at a funfair run by travelers, have ''Halal meat'' written on them. That tells me that they are having a massive influence on our way of life.

No, that's just capitalism at work.

And an ice cream van with 'halal meat'? Seems unlikely.

[Kardan]

and that is what they are going to try and do over here, very slowly but eventually.

even ice-cream vans, burger vans at a funfair run by travelers, have ''Halal meat'' written on them. That tells me that they are having a massive influence on our way of life.

So you would rather not be told when meat is Halal? At least if you're told it gives you the choice to eat it or not. And if seeing two words on a burger van is a massive influence to your life, then I'd be worried.

Anyway, how are 'islams' trying to do that over here? Very few people in this country believe that you should go to prison for kissing in public, it would be wrong to suggest that all 'islams' in the UK believe in that let alone them wanting to make it a law.

[AgnesIO]

So you would rather not be told when meat is Halal? At least if you're told it gives you the choice to eat it or not. And if seeing two words on a burger van is a massive influence to your life, then I'd be worried.

Anyway, how are 'islams' trying to do that over here? Very few people in this country believe that you should go to prison for kissing in public, it would be wrong to suggest that all 'islams' in the UK believe in that let alone them wanting to make it a law.

YOU HAVE NO IDEA WHAT THOSE ISLAMS ARE DOING

[Firehorse]

Also on the subject of protection of Jews, the article does cover that:
"Labour Party Manifesto pledged to take a “zero-tolerance approach to hate crime” regarding the growth of Islamophobia as well as anti-Semitism"


Antisemitism is mentioned in the article. Nice try, though.


Where are you getting this stuff from?

Anti-Semitism is mentioned NOWHERE in the article except in the comments criticising the lack of a mention! The same goes for this very thread: it is mentioned NOWHERE except in your posts with your made-up statements.

Flyingjesus's supposed quote doesn't even exist in the article being discussed.

[AgnesIO]

Where are you getting this stuff from?

Anti-Semitism is mentioned NOWHERE in the article except in the comments criticising the lack of a mention! The same goes for this very thread: it is mentioned NOWHERE except in your posts with your made-up statements.

Flyingjesus's supposed quote doesn't even exist in the article being discussed.

Read the actual pledge.

[Firehorse]

Read the actual pledge.

So when you say "article" you actually mean a different source, and not the article which has been posted in this thread.

[Kyle]

An article in The Telegraph omitting information that might ruin their smear campaign. Well, I never!

[GommeInc]

Well that's usually how Islam tends to treat everybody else when it is in the majority.
Same for any religion really. Judaism is one that springs to mind.

As much as I can see the thought process behind what he's suggesting, no religion should be free of criticism, especially when Islam is a much more diverse religion than he seems to think it is. Different branches hold different values, and some are harsher than others. These are the ones that are open to as much criticism as possible. If it verges into assault then it is already a crime, as religion or no religion threatening behaviour isn't tolerated. Why we must divide obvious crimes up to mean different things to different people is absurd.

[Firehorse]

Christopher Hitchens will be turning in his grave.

[FlyingJesus]

Where are you getting this stuff from?

Anti-Semitism is mentioned NOWHERE in the article except in the comments criticising the lack of a mention! The same goes for this very thread: it is mentioned NOWHERE except in your posts with your made-up statements.

Flyingjesus's supposed quote doesn't even exist in the article being discussed.

If you can't be bothered to read a thread properly and actually look into an issue further than whatever's quoted in the first post (and not even checking the linked sources) then you really shouldn't go about pretending to know what you're on about or trying to tell people what's been discussed. For those of us who are literate and actually care about truth rather than scare tactics, the sources within the article are the important parts - not just the journalism attached. You, like Dan, seem to not know the difference between a source and a report on a source.

http://i.imgur.com/GPAPUkF.png


So when you say "article" you actually mean a different source, and not the article which has been posted in this thread.

No, it was very much posted in the thread. Your laziness is no-one's fault but your own.

[-:Undertaker:-]

FlyingJesus; How ironic that he mentions anti-semitism too when most of the growth in anti-semitism is coming from the Religion of Peace.

Oh what a web we weave..

[FlyingJesus]

Oh I'm not at all doubting where a lot of anti-Semitism comes from, it's just that Hasterix claimed as a major point that it hadn't been mentioned when it very specifically has, and then tried pretending that I was reaching when I set him straight

Although I wouldn't as a certainty say "most" considering Europe's history with regards to the treatment of the Jewish people

[-:Undertaker:-]

Although I wouldn't as a certainty say "most" considering Europe's history with regards to the treatment of the Jewish people

I'm talking about the new, 'tolerant' and 'vibrant' Europe of 2015 where inner city areas in France, Britain and the Netherlands resemble downtown Karachi.

And that's no place for a Jew. Or a homosexual. Or anyone other than a follower of the RoP really.

[AgnesIO]

I'm talking about the new, 'tolerant' and 'vibrant' Europe of 2015 where inner city areas in France, Britain and the Netherlands resemble downtown Karachi.

And that's no place for a Jew. Or a homosexual. Or anyone other than a follower of the RoP really.

When did your body fill up with so so much hate for 23% of the world's population?

[-:Undertaker:-]

When did your body fill up with so so much hate for 23% of the world's population?

It's not a matter of hate, it's a matter of survival for me as a gay person (http://www.habboxforum.com/showthread.php?t=819891).

In any case, my hatred is directed at those in the Labour Rotherham council, social services, and SY Police. And boy do I hate them with a vengeance.

[AgnesIO]

It's not a matter of hate, it's a matter of survival for me as a gay person (http://www.habboxforum.com/showthread.php?t=819891).

In any case, my hatred is directed at those in the Labour Rotherham council, social services, and SY Police. And boy do I hate them with a vengeance.

You are safe in Britain as a gay male, Islam or no Islam. You keep referencing Rotherham Council, but what about these people (again)?

http://i.guim.co.uk/media/w-620/h--/q-95/926121804845770a6cb74d5d47e0dc158e472d29/0_0_2560_1536/1000.jpg

[-:Undertaker:-]

You are safe in Britain as a gay male Islam or no Islam.

You believe it'd be safe in an Islamic-dominated area to hold hands with another guy in public?

France is further down the road than us to civil violence hence why the gays and Jews (trad left-leaning) are all turning to Le Pen. Because the right will protect them.


You keep referencing Rotherham Council, but what about these people (again)?

Bringing up other examples of pedophilia in our country (and believe me, I know a lotttttt about it aka Blair's D-notice and the boat trips of one former Prime Minister aka Mr EEC) doesn't detract from the fact that - as the Jay Report confirmed - large Asian gangs have been operating in northern cities with a liking for English girls and have been allowed to get away with third world behaviour because the Police, social services and the Labour councils didn't want to upset the 'community'.

[AgnesIO]

You believe it'd be safe in an Islamic-dominated area to hold hands with another guy in public?

France is further down the road than us to civil violence hence why the gays and Jews (trad left-leaning) are all turning to Le Pen. Because the right will protect them.



Bringing up other examples of pedophilia in our country (and believe me, I know a lotttttt about it aka Blair's D-notice and the boat trips of one former Prime Minister aka Mr EEC) doesn't detract from the fact that - as the Jay Report confirmed - large Asian gangs have been operating in northern cities with a liking for English girls and have been allowed to get away with third world behaviour because the Police, social services and the Labour councils didn't want to upset the 'community'.

Can't say I ever see to gay guys walking down a street holding hands, to be honest.

Large gangs have been operating for centuries targeting certain people... this isn't new, and it certainly isn't because of Islam.

[-:Undertaker:-]

Can't say I ever see to gay guys walking down a street holding hands, to be honest.

Large gangs have been operating for centuries targeting certain people... this isn't new, and it certainly isn't because of Islam.

Dodged both points with a head in the sand argument.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AltyhmrIFgo

[AgnesIO]

Dodged both points with a head in the sand argument.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AltyhmrIFgo



Bizarre video to show - a lot of people in that video didn't even appear to be muslims?

I didn't dodge your point. I just find it funny that a tiny number of 1.57bn muslims being paedophiles makes you run scared of a quarter of the worlds population.

[-:Undertaker:-]

Bizarre video to show - a lot of people in that video didn't even appear to be muslims?

Come on now.


I didn't dodge your point. I just find it funny that a tiny number of 1.57bn muslims being paedophiles makes you run scared of a quarter of the worlds population.

Oh look, pretty much the same argument you're putting forward vs my own.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ry3NzkAOo3s



"It is time we took political correctness and threw it in the garbage where it belongs." - Brigitte Gabriel

[FlyingJesus]

Reality and logic is not the same thing as political correctness. There are a lot of points on both sides that I agree with (and then obviously disagree with on the other hand) in this thread, but making simple observations that can be proved without doubt is not pandering to anyone

[Chippiewill]

Wait I'm confused. Is the entire basis of this thread just a slippery slope argument that because Labour have pledged to make hate crimes a crime that soon women won't be able to drive cars? **** off.

[GommeInc]

If I recall correctly, Miliband is showing he lacks knowledge of the current legal system which is quite worrying for a politician that probably voted in the legislation anyway. In theory, any sort of hate crime is already against the law. Creating separate crimes for Islamaphobia or anti-Semitism is just trying to win votes from people who don't know their rights already. It's a bit mean misleading people who are ignorant of the fact they're already protected by the law. The Equality Act 2010 and the Human Rights Act 1998 are still alive and well. It's yet another non-issue based on something that is poorly implemented.

[Firehorse]

If I recall correctly, Miliband is showing he lacks knowledge of the current legal system which is quite worrying for a politician that probably voted in the legislation anyway. In theory, any sort of hate crime is already against the law. Creating separate crimes for Islamaphobia or anti-Semitism is just trying to win votes from people who don't know their rights already. It's a bit mean misleading people who are ignorant of the fact they're already protected by the law. The Equality Act 2010 and the Human Rights Act 1998 are still alive and well. It's yet another non-issue based on something that is poorly implemented.

He does the same with a lot of policies, it's scary how many people believe everything he says.

He says non-doms don't pay tax, which is one of the biggest lies of them all. Not only do they pay tax, the amount of tax all 115,000 of them pay is equivalent to that of 10 million 'living wage' workers.

[-:Undertaker:-]

Wait I'm confused. Is the entire basis of this thread just a slippery slope argument that because Labour have pledged to make hate crimes a crime that soon women won't be able to drive cars? **** off.

The argument is that Labour will throw anybody under the bus when it comes to pleasing their third world voters.

From the thousands of English girls they sacrified for the 'diverse' vote, to working class tradesmen to gay people, women and free speech itself.

[AgnesIO]

The argument is that Labour will throw anybody under the bus when it comes to pleasing their third world voters.

From the thousands of English girls they sacrified for the 'diverse' vote, to working class tradesmen to gay people, women and free speech itself.

Please stop embarrassing yourself.

[Earthquake]

Please stop embarrassing yourself.

the only person on this thread embarrassing themselves is you my friend with your username.

Edited by mdport. (Forum Super Moderator): Please don't post off-topic!

[AgnesIO]

the only person on this thread embarrassing themselves is you my friend with your username.

Not quite sure how you worked that one out -:undertaker:- alias..? :P

[-:Undertaker:-]

Please stop embarrassing yourself.

I'm not a politician or an establishment lackey who will sugarcoat words for a middle-class dinner party. I'll tell it how it is.

And the truth is that Labour panders to the third world vote which is why working class voters are starting to abandon it in droves.

[AgnesIO]

I'm not a politician or an establishment lackey who will sugarcoat words for a middle-class dinner party. I'll tell it how it is.

And the truth is that Labour panders to the third world vote which is why working class voters are starting to abandon it in droves.

So now 'muslims' are 'third world'. Learning more and more in this thread!

[FlyingJesus]

Not the first time he's said it tbh

[-:Undertaker:-]

So now 'muslims' are 'third world'. Learning more and more in this thread!

The mass rape of underage girls in northern towns and cities and the mass voter fraud in Tower Hamlets isn't third world behaviour?

You call it diversity I call it third world.

[FlyingJesus]

You are aware that literally no-one supports that behaviour, and that it's not limited to Muslim immigrants?

[-:Undertaker:-]

You are aware that literally no-one supports that behaviour

Rotherham council, the Labour Party, social services and South Yorkshire Police certainly did.


and that it's not limited to Muslim immigrants?

Again distorting the issue.

It's only a matter of time with these discussions where the people who have nothing left to say always try and twist over and over again into "omgz its not all muslims you know" as though somebody claimed it was all muslims in the first place. I refer back to the Brigiette Gabrial video I posted earlier.

[AgnesIO]

The mass rape of underage girls in northern towns and cities and the mass voter fraud in Tower Hamlets isn't third world behaviour?

You call it diversity I call it third world.

No, it isn't third world behaviour. It's foul and disgusting, but how is that third world?

Once again, when are you going to ******* open your eyes and see the paedophilia is not =/= to muslims.

- - - Updated - - -


Rotherham council, the Labour Party, social services and South Yorkshire Police certainly did.



Again distorting the issue.

It's only a matter of time with these discussions where the people who have nothing left to say always try and twist over and over again into "omgz its not all muslims you know" as though somebody claimed it was all muslims in the first place. I refer back to the Brigiette Gabrial video I posted earlier.

You said you are islamaphobic because muslims are the people raping English girls. That is distorting the issue.

[FlyingJesus]

as though somebody claimed it was all muslims in the first place

Well yes, you have. You've said that Labour is pandering to a third world vote by talking about Islamophobia, prompting the question of whether you think Muslims are third world peoples, to which you brought up something that a tiny minority of Muslims did (and which - as you keep saying - was allowed to happen by a far larger number of white Britons) as though that makes the entire religion and all of its practitioners "third world" somehow. By your odd logic it's white Christian indigenous folk who are the real third worlders because of the huge disparity of criminals in that category, especially political criminals.

[Chippiewill]

So now Dan is claiming that people who live in the UK (A first world country) but worship Islam are third world? That is literally Islamophobic.

[The Don]

So now 'muslims' are 'third world'. Learning more and more in this thread!

BUT HES NOT A WAYCIST

[-:Undertaker:-]

No, it isn't third world behaviour. It's foul and disgusting, but how is that third world?

Because that is what happens in the third world.


Once again, when are you going to ******* open your eyes and see the paedophilia is not =/= to muslims.

And once again, I never said as you keep trying to make out that it applied to all muslims.

But it certainly is a feature of Islamic culture hence why we've had what we've had happen. Duh.


You said you are islamaphobic because muslims are the people raping English girls. That is distorting the issue.

No, i'm 'islamophobic' as I don't want to live in a society dominated or influenced in any meaningful way by Islam.

Or do you disagree? Would you like to live in a society in which Islam and all its sects held a meaningful sway over?


Well yes, you have. You've said that Labour is pandering to a third world vote by talking about Islamophobia, prompting the question of whether you think Muslims are third world peoples, to which you brought up something that a tiny minority of Muslims did (and which - as you keep saying - was allowed to happen by a far larger number of white Britons) as though that makes the entire religion and all of its practitioners "third world" somehow. By your odd logic it's white Christian indigenous folk who are the real third worlders because of the huge disparity of criminals in that category, especially political criminals.

A lot of the people who Labour slapped with a British passport as well as the current government aren't British in the slighest, with many of them living in cultural ghettos, not even speaking our language and living basically as they would in downtown Karachi. They are third worlders.

But again, it's the twisting of the issue. Of course all muslims here aren't third worlders: but in the context of the discussion it's clear what I mean.


So now Dan is claiming that people who live in the UK (A first world country) but worship Islam are third world? That is literally Islamophobic.

I never claimed all muslims here, as you know well, are third worlders. But many culturally are. And that includes the other non-muslim millions Labour brought in.

Arriving here and being handed a British passport on day one doesn't mean you cease to become a third worlder and become British.


BUT HES NOT A WAYCIST

Islam isn't a race.

[FlyingJesus]

But your entire reason for believing they are third worlders appears to be the crimes that get committed - once again, it would then follow that far more white Britons are living third world lives than Muslim immigrants, but since that's clearly not true the entire argument falls apart. You're simply using the wrong terminology

[AgnesIO]

Because that is what happens in the third world.



And once again, I never said as you keep trying to make out that it applied to all muslims.

But it certainly is a feature of Islamic culture hence why we've had what we've had happen. Duh.

That's like saying paedophilia is a feature of British culture (or did the people I link to, the BBC, Jimmy Saville etc not exist in your mind?). You have made out that you dislike muslims because of a few paedophiles...

No, i'm 'islamophobic' as I don't want to live in a society dominated or influenced in any meaningful way by Islam.

Or do you disagree? Would you like to live in a society in which Islam and all its sects held a meaningful sway over?

I could quite easily live in an 'Islamic State' (and by that, I don't mean ISIS, I mean a state where Islam is the main religion). Thanks for asking, though. Islamophobia is different to not wanting to live in a muslim majority state, anyway...

Kind of like claiming to have arachnophobia because you don't want to have a tarantula living in your home...

A lot of the people who Labour slapped with a British passport as well as the current government aren't British in the slighest, with many of them living in cultural ghettos, not even speaking our language and living basically as they would in downtown Karachi. They are third worlders.

But again, it's the twisting of the issue. Of course all muslims here aren't third worlders: but in the context of the discussion it's clear what I mean.

A bit like not all British people are paedophiles. Congratulations.

Muslims are not 'third worlders'.

I never claimed all muslims here, as you know well, are third worlders. But many culturally are. And that includes the other non-muslim millions Labour brought in.

Arriving here and being handed a British passport on day one doesn't mean you cease to become a third worlder and become British.

Well why not stop making sweeping statements, and then claiming you didn't say it at all - whether you mean to say it or not, that is exactly how your posts read.

Islam isn't a race.

At least you got that bit right. A xenophobic fool, maybe.

Bold yay

[-:Undertaker:-]

But your entire reason for believing they are third worlders appears to be the crimes that get committed - once again, it would then follow that far more white Britons are living third world lives than Muslim immigrants, but since that's clearly not true the entire argument falls apart. You're simply using the wrong terminology


That's like saying paedophilia is a feature of British culture (or did the people I link to, the BBC, Jimmy Saville etc not exist in your mind?). You have made out that you dislike muslims because of a few paedophiles...

Are you both like, is there something wrong with you?

Do you not understand that all cultures are not equal and that in cultures like Pakistan, across the Middle East and in Africa that it is viewed as acceptable by large swathes of the population to take child brides, have sex with children and have sex without consent? Thus, it goes without saying that if you bring large numbers of them in and they make no effort to integrate and live just like they do in Pakistan then they'll do what they do back in Pakistan. That's what has happened. It's like the voter fraud in Tower Hamlets: that is what they do in these backwards cultures, they don't play by the rules.

Ask anybody who deals abroad with cultures like Pakistan. Back in the British Raj for example when the British first arrived in India, we had trouble there as they used bribes as a normal part of trading yet we saw it as bribary (which it was) but they saw that sort of corruption as completely normal and fine.

If you can't get your heads around the idea that not every culture thinks like a liberal westerner does then don't bother replying.


At least you got that bit right. A xenophobic fool, maybe.

Islam isn't a nationality either.

I'm the fool yet two of the insults thrown at me so far don't even meet the definitions. Lol.

[AgnesIO]

Islam isn't a nationality either.

I'm the fool yet two of the insults thrown at me so far don't even meet the definitions. Lol.

Well, this is awkward. Xenophobia: an unreasonable fear or hatred of foreigners or strangers or of that which is foreign or strange.


Are you both like, is there something wrong with you?

Do you not understand that all cultures are not equal and that in cultures like Pakistan, across the Middle East and in Africa that it is viewed as acceptable by large swathes of the population to take child brides, have sex with children and have sex without consent? Thus, it goes without saying that if you bring large numbers of them in and they make no effort to integrate and live just like they do in Pakistan then they'll do what they do back in Pakistan. That's what has happened. It's like the voter fraud in Tower Hamlets: that is what they do in these backwards cultures, they don't play by the rules.

Ask anybody who deals abroad with cultures like Pakistan. Back in the British Raj for example when the British first arrived in India, we had trouble there as they used bribes as a normal part of trading yet we saw it as bribary (which it was) but they saw that sort of corruption as completely normal and fine.

If you can't get your heads around the idea that not every culture thinks like a liberal westerner does then don't bother replying.

A) Stop thinking 'liberal Western' culture is the best. It isn't. It has many, many flaws.
B) So what is your excuse for British paedophiles? Come on, I want to hear it. Are they simply paedophiles because of muslims, or??

[FlyingJesus]

Different culture =/= third world, no-one's saying anything but this. There's no claim that rape and paedophilia are good things that we desperately want imported (as though "natives" don't partake in such activities anyway), just that it's not the third world and no-one living in this country - even the homeless - is living a third world life.

[-:Undertaker:-]

Well, this is awkward. Xenophobia: an unreasonable fear or hatred of foreigners or strangers or of that which is foreign or strange.

I do hate practices such as FGM, child marriage and sex with children. That's right.


A) Stop thinking 'liberal Western' culture is the best. It isn't. It has many, many flaws.

Who claimed it was 100% perfect?

Again, trying to pollute the issue because you know what I say about corruption, rape, fraud, liberty etc is light-years ahead in the west.


B) So what is your excuse for British paedophiles? Come on, I want to hear it. Are they simply paedophiles because of muslims, or??

What are you on about? I don't quite get what you are on about. I guess you're trying to make the point that because we have men who will have sex with children in western culture that it's just as bad as what happens elsewhere in the world, right? Well that's rather silly isn't it because it simply isn't on the same scale and certainly isn't socially and culturally acceptable to do so in western cultures whereas in the third world like Africa and the Middle East it is perfectly normal to marry children, have sex with children and have sex with a woman whether she wants it or not.

If I could somehow prove it to you for you to actually grasp it properly and I was magic, then I would turn you into a girl and let you walk around the streets of Paris, Liverpool, Chicago and Vienna for the day. The next day I would drop you in the middle of Karachi, Nairobi or Rabat.

And then maybe you'd get the picure. If you still don't get it, then I guess you'd only ever get it if it was your daughter in the back of a Rotherham taxi.


Different culture =/= third world, no-one's saying anything but this. There's no claim that rape and paedophilia are good things that we desperately want imported (as though "natives" don't partake in such activities anyway), just that it's not the third world and no-one living in this country - even the homeless - is living a third world life.

As above.

[FlyingJesus]

Dunno why you said "as above" when there was nothing at all above responding to what I said. The third world does not exist in Britain, that's all. Your terminology is wrong, which is very dangerous in a debate especially when you're trying to preach something

[AgnesIO]

I do hate practices such as FGM, child marriage and sex with children. That's right.

Err, great. So do I. I work to combat the above issues. That is not a reason to hate muslims. Move on.

Who claimed it was 100% perfect?

Again, trying to pollute the issue because you know what I say about corruption, rape, fraud, liberty etc is light-years ahead in the west.

Congratulations. Some issues are ahead in the West. Shame many of our cultural and social values are going down hill (surely you agree, given your support of the nuclear family?).

What are you on about? I don't quite get what you are on about. I guess you're trying to make the point that because we have men who will have sex with children in western culture that it's just as bad as what happens elsewhere in the world, right? Well that's rather silly isn't it because it simply isn't on the same scale and certainly isn't socially and culturally acceptable to do so in western cultures whereas in the third world like Africa and the Middle East it is perfectly normal to marry children, have sex with children and have sex with a woman whether she wants it or not.

If I could somehow prove it to you for you to actually grasp it properly and I was magic, then I would turn you into a girl and let you walk around the streets of Paris, Liverpool, Chicago and Vienna for the day. The next day I would drop you in the middle of Karachi, Nairobi or Rabat

I'm making the point that hating muslims because a few of them are paedophiles is pathetic. Although I've come to expect that from you. Congratulations on making Africa one entity. I guess we are pretty much Romanian.

I once had the pleasure of spending time in Nairobi. With a girl. She is still alive. And wasn't raped.

And then maybe you'd get the picure. If you still don't get it, then I guess you'd only ever get it if it was your daughter in the back of a Rotherham taxi.

I have a feeling my daughter would survive a trip in a Rotherham taxi. There are 2.7m Muslims in Britain. Stop pretending they are all the same.



As above.

Response in bold.