Top Farage ally turns on 'snarling' UKIP leader

[Chippiewill]

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Looks like UKIP is going through some things.

[-:Undertaker:-]

It is becoming more and more apparent this is about leadership. The problem for any rebels is, they are well overestimating their own support within the party. A few in the top brass may have fallen out with Farage or have fancied his job, but I am willing to bet if Farage stood for the leadership in an election (which may have to happen now) that he'd probably win near 50% of the votes of the membership. Where then would that leave the rebels?

If it is all coming from Carswell, who I suspect raised short money in the media to undermine Farage then that won't go down well either. As far as I see it, we're entitled to short money like every other party and should be using it (despite only 1 MP but 4 million votes) to fund a research team for the upcoming referendum which eurosceptics in Ukip, the Conservatives and Labour still haven't got a plan announced for. Do they propose we join EFTA? Go by FTAs? They cannot expect to win a referendum when they haven't got an alternative to put forward and the clock is ticking. We've had years to prepare for this: a convention should be called.

[AgnesIO]

It is becoming more and more apparent this is about leadership. The problem for any rebels is, they are well overestimating their own support within the party. A few in the top brass may have fallen out with Farage or have fancied his job, but I am willing to bet if Farage stood for the leadership in an election (which may have to happen now) that he'd probably win near 50% of the votes of the membership. Where then would that leave the rebels?

If it is all coming from Carswell, who I suspect raised short money in the media to undermine Farage then that won't go down well either. As far as I see it, we're entitled to short money like every other party and should be using it (despite only 1 MP but 4 million votes) to fund a research team for the upcoming referendum which eurosceptics in Ukip, the Conservatives and Labour still haven't got a plan announced for. Do they propose we join EFTA? Go by FTAs? They cannot expect to win a referendum when they haven't got an alternative to put forward and the clock is ticking. We've had years to prepare for this: a convention should be called.

It is because - unlike UKIP - Douglas Carswell has said it would be wrong for him to get 15 staff members using taxpayers money simply because he can. I know UKIP loves to waste taxpayer money, but Carswell has a bit of backbone and morals. Most MP's would get tens of thousands, not hundreds of thousands,

[-:Undertaker:-]

It is because - unlike UKIP - Douglas Carswell has said it would be wrong for him to get 15 staff members using taxpayers money simply because he can. I know UKIP loves to waste taxpayer money, but Carswell has a bit of backbone and morals. Most MP's would get tens of thousands, not hundreds of thousands,

Only because of a fluke in an electoral system that wasn't designed to handle this. I'm opposed to short money altogether, but whilst all the other parties including your Conservatives are raking it in via short money we should be entitled to take our share and use it to represent 4 million voters across this kingdom.

[James]

Sounds like they're butt hurt & blaming each other for not winning the election.
shame for them.

[AgnesIO]

Only because of a fluke in an electoral system that wasn't designed to handle this. I'm opposed to short money altogether, but whilst all the other parties including your Conservatives are raking it in via short money we should be entitled to take our share and use it to represent 4 million voters across this kingdom.

The difference is, the Conservatives don't get offered £650,000 per MP. Carswell has morals. Unlike UKIP MEPs.

[-:Undertaker:-]

The difference is, the Conservatives don't get offered £650,000 per MP. Carswell has morals. Unlike UKIP MEPs.

Again, only on the basis of the fluke in the system. Under short money arrangements, you get something like a set amount per MP and then you get something like £33 for every 200 votes you had in the election. Ukip obviously only got a single member of parliament, yet 4 million votes which has left them with a lot of extra short money (which the other parties also get) to spend. As we're entitled to it, and as you lot use your quotas, we should use it.

We're always honest that we'll use any money we're allowed to use to further the cause of getting us out of the EU. Like your party does but the other way round. Carswell is stupidly grandstanding, and come the referendum we're going to be outspent just like last time as the Conservative Party, its wealthy donors, Labour and the Unions and the European Commission are going to pour millions and millions in taxpayer cash to get the result they want.

[AgnesIO]

Again, only on the basis of the fluke in the system. Under short money arrangements, you get something like a set amount per MP and then you get something like £33 for every 200 votes you had in the election. Ukip obviously only got a single member of parliament, yet 4 million votes which has left them with a lot of extra short money (which the other parties also get) to spend. As we're entitled to it, and as you lot use your quotas, we should use it.

We're always honest that we'll use any money we're allowed to use to further the cause of getting us out of the EU. Like your party does but the other way round. Carswell is stupidly grandstanding, and come the referendum we're going to be outspent just like last time as the Conservative Party, its wealthy donors, Labour and the Unions and the European Commission are going to pour millions and millions in taxpayer cash to get the result they want.

Maybe Carswell doesn't need or want 15 staff? If Carswell loses his reputation that he has worked so hard to gain in Clacton, UKIP will end up with no seats in the next election; I'd say it is probably worth listening to him.

[-:Undertaker:-]

Maybe Carswell doesn't need or want 15 staff? If Carswell loses his reputation that he has worked so hard to gain in Clacton, UKIP will end up with no seats in the next election; I'd say it is probably worth listening to him.

It isn't about Carswell.

You use that money to fund a party that is supposed to be representing 4 million voters yet only has one MP due to the electoral system. The plan and what HQ apparently wanted, was Carswell use his constituency MP money (as all MPs do) and with the extra short money use that to fund researchers for HQ. Going by what Guido is reporting, it looks to me like an attempted coup in progress and thus it was no accident this short money issue suddenly became an issue with Carswell publically yesterday.

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[FlyingJesus]

"Nigel never loses" lmao

[Inseriousity.]

You can't use it to fund that sort of thing Dan. You can only use it for parliamentary business so I agree with Carswell. He'd be spending money because it's available rather than because it's sensible and I'd have thought you with your incessant hatred of wasting money would be more supportive of Carswell for taking a principled stand about it.

[-:Undertaker:-]

You can't use it to fund that sort of thing Dan. You can only use it for parliamentary business so I agree with Carswell. He'd be spending money because it's available rather than because it's sensible and I'd have thought you with your incessant hatred of wasting money would be more supportive of Carswell for taking a principled stand about it.

That is what I read, that you get £33 for every 200 votes ontop of per MP.

In any case I think from the unfolding events over the afternoon it's clear to see this was never about short money anyway.

[-:Undertaker:-]

Looks like it is an attempted/unfolding coup and it keeps escalating by the hour.

I'll keep updating this list although the Telegraph have a good feed: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/ukip/11605216/Ukip-in-crisis-live.html

Team Farage: Former leader Lord Pearson, Arron Banks (donor), Roger Helmer MEP, Alan Bown (donor), Lord Hesketh, Deputy Leader Paul Nuttall MEP, the Earl of Darmouth MEP, David Coburn MEP, Nathan Gill MEP, Ko Barclay (director/donor), Richard Desmond (Daily Express owner) Raheem Kassam (advisor), party chairman Steve Crowther all issuing statements or are said to be backing Farage.

The rebels: appear from the face of it to be Patrick O'Flynn MEP, Douglas Carswell MP, the London Mayfair press office, Suzanne Evans, Stuart Wheeler (donor), Mark Reckless, Hugh Williams (party treasurer), Godfrey Bloom and maybe Steven Woolfe MEP and Tim Aker MEP.

If you look at the Ukip twitter feed then it is endorsement after endorsement being issued which says to me a coup.

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https://twitter.com/UKIP
http://www.ukip.org/statement_from_lord_pearson_leader_of_ukip_in_the_ lords

[AgnesIO]

What a mess.

- - - Updated - - -

Sounds very 'establishment-ish'.

Supporters of Nigel Farage have been accused of forcing the party's 22 MEPs to sign a letter backing the UKIP leader.
However, it's understood considerable pressure was placed on the MEPs to sign the letter, which is due to be published shortly.
One said they were left in no doubt that if they did not sign, their careers would suffer.
"Our arms were twisted so far up our backs we were left little option but to sign," said one.
However, it's claimed some of the MEPs were deeply reluctant. One said he was not opposed to Mr Farage previously but - because of the "strong arm tactics" - now felt he should resign.

[-:Undertaker:-]

Douglas Carswell MP now sniping from the sidelines in The Times tonight - http://order-order.com/2015/05/15/carswell-speaks-farage-should-go/#_@/mdKVOtVL8BoVVQ

How about this suggestion. If you want the leadership then declare you are running for it or put forward a challenger. Or shut up. He [Carswell] and his clique won't though as they know exactly what would happen in any leadership election, that the members including myself will produce a landslide for Farage.

He's right on the optimism point though, i'll give him that.

[FlyingJesus]

To be fair I'd be annoyed in his place too, the only MP in the party and being made to do the bidding of a guy who said he was going to leave. I don't like Carswell but points to him for potentially damaging the party :P

[-:Undertaker:-]

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Farage forcing the position back onto Carswell now. Nice move.

Longer Carswell and others take to declare their intentions they're losing any momentum they had against the Farage camp.

[FlyingJesus]

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[Chippiewill]

I don't think Farage commands the support of his MPs, maybe he should step down.

[FlyingJesus]

Interesting use of the plural there

[-:Undertaker:-]

Patrick O'Flynn MEP has resigned as Economics spokesman and apologised, and Suzanne Evans is being replaced as Policy Chief by Mark Reckless.

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"Nigel always wins" ....