Illegal Immigrant Crisis: Hungarian Prime Minister says Europe in grip of madness

[-:Undertaker:-]

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/sep/03/migration-crisis-hungary-pm-victor-orban-europe-response-madness

Migration crisis: Hungary PM says Europe in grip of madness

Viktor Orbán attacks EU policy, saying the influx of Muslim refugees poses a threat to Europe’s Christian identity


http://www.sloveniatimes.com/modules/uploader/uploads/Aktualno/Podobe1/viktor-orban-hungary.jpg
Hungary joins Slovenia, Poland and the Czech Republic in rejecting acceping hundreds of thousands of illegal immigrants.



Hungary’s prime minister, Viktor Orbán, has claimed Europe (http://www.theguardian.com/world/europe-news) is in the grip of madness over immigration and refugees, and argued that he was defending European Christianity against a Muslim influx.

Orbán’s strong remarks came as he arrived in Brussels for a confrontation with EU leaders over his popular policies in Europe’s biggest migration emergency since the second world war. “Everything which is now taking place before our eyes threatens to have explosive consequences for the whole of Europe,” Orbán wrote in Germany’s Frankfurter Allgemeine Zeitung. “Europe’s response is madness. We must acknowledge that the European Union’s misguided immigration policy is responsible for this situation.

“Irresponsibility is the mark of every European politician who holds out the promise of a better life to immigrants and encourages them to leave everything behind and risk their lives in setting out for Europe. If Europe does not return to the path of common sense, it will find itself laid low in a battle for its fate.” Germany, France, and Italy are demanding an overhaul of European asylum procedures. Attempts to get to grips with the crisis have left the EU floundering and the Schengen passport-free travel zone across 26 countries threatening to unravel.

“Today everything is immigration,” said the EU president, Donald Tusk, on Thursday. “We live in sobering, shocking times.”

“The Schengen treaty is under threat, that’s absolutely clear,” said Martin Schulz, the European parliament speaker, after meeting Orbán. “This is a crucial moment for the European Union (http://www.theguardian.com/world/eu). A deeper split of the union is a risk we cannot exclude.” As confusion over border controls and free movement deepen, there were chaotic scenes at Budapest’s Keleti railway station (http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/sep/03/budapest-station-reopens-no-trains-running-western-europe-migration-crisis-europe) when the Hungarian authorities’ on-off approach to running the trains shifted. Thousands of people scrambled to board trains hoping they were heading for Germany after authorities restarted rail traffic a day after closing the station to refugees. “This is not a European problem, it’s a German problem,” said Orbán in Brussels. “They all want to go to Germany.”

Australian solution (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-australia-34148931)... (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-australia-34148931)

- PM Abbott suggests European na (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-australia-34148931)tions (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-australia-34148931)copy successful policy (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-australia-34148931)



http://www.theshovel.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2015/02/tony-abbott-flag.jpg

http://www.abc.net.au/cm/lb/5143788/data/asylum-seeker-arrivals-monthly-jan-09---nov-13-data.jpg


Orbán said the razor-wire fence erected on Hungary’s southern border with Serbia was essential to defending the Schengen zone’s external borders. He denied that the emergency was a refugee crisis, but one of mass migration. “Those arriving have been raised in another religion, and represent a radically different culture. Most of them are not Christians, but Muslims,” he said. “This is an important question, because Europe and European identity is rooted in Christianity. “Is it not worrying in itself that European Christianity is now barely able to keep Europe Christian? There is no alternative, and we have no option but to defend our borders.”

Orbán said quotas were not the answer. “Quotas is an invitation for those who want to come. The moral human thing is to make clear, please don’t come.”

The Hungarian Prime Minister seems to be the only one talking any sense, Cameron has already caved in this morning by pledging to accept 25,000 over a period of months because of some lunatic internet petition. Britain isn't even IN Schengan so what the **** does it have to do with us.

That said, other European countries shouldn't be taking these people either. You'll have noticed on news outlets like the BBC and Sky News they are being described as 'migrants' which is factually incorrect. A migrant is someone like your dad and my dad who will get a visa and go and work in Canada or Singapore. In much the same way, a genuine asylum seeker is somebody who flees to the first safe country they reach (because if your life is geninely in danger you really aren't picky you are just glad to be in safety). The hoardes coming into Europe and passing safe countries such as Turkey, Lebanon, Tunisia, Egypt are simply illegal immigrants.

What the morons wanting to let all these people in don't even understand is that by accepting more people you attract more people so you'll actually end up with more boat deaths. The Australians learnt this when their Labor Party kept granting people the right to stay and the problem was spiralling out of control, since the Liberal-Nationals got in and stated nobody would be granted stay the boats have completely stopped and there have been no more boat deaths. A win both in terms of no more deaths and the preservation of Anglo-Australian national identity.

And please, if you are going to argue with me don't be as low as to post a picture of a dead boy as the media have been doing so in their one-sided narrative of this. If you ask me, using the picture of a drowned boy to further a free-for-all border agenda is distasteful and foul.

Thoughts?

[abc]

Ah so we should go to other countries, pretend to help them (when in fact we just go their for our own interest like Oil etc) and when it backfires we should run away from the problem?

You forget that we messed up their countries by combing them or their neighbours, in turn creating terrorists which exist today. We have killed more people (directly and indirectly) than the "evil" leaders we went there to remove killed. Now that their country is literally ******, we want to let their people rot even more than the torture caused by their "evil" leaders. We created this problem and people fail to realise that. People are willing to die to escape the awful situation which we caused - this in itself shows how torturous the situation is. The least we can do is let them in our country.

Hopefully this situation will show us that we need to stop bombing other countries and mind our own damn business.

[-:Undertaker:-]

Ah so we should go to other countries, pretend to help them (when in fact we just go their for our own interest like Oil etc) and when it backfires we should run away from the problem?

You forget that we messed up their countries by combing them or their neighbours, in turn creating terrorists which exist today. We have killed more people (directly and indirectly) than the "evil" leaders we went there to remove killed. Now that their country is literally ******, we want to let their people rot even more than the torture caused by their "evil" leaders. We created this problem and people fail to realise that.

You confuse me with somebody who wanted to go into Iraq, Libya and Syria. I recall at the time of the Libyan and Syrian crisis, numerous people on this forum piled against me telling me how it was right to topple Gaddafi and later Assad and that it was different to Iraq as there wouldn't be any boots on the ground. I warned that destabilising both regimes would lead to worse people - now Islamic State - taking over.

Don't direct all that at me because I completely agree that the adventures to Libya and Syria were a disaster. It is interesting to note though that those who were arguing against me then as I suspect they will over the illegal immigrant crisis appealed to their emotions and feelings rather than a level-head: "how can you not want to overthrow Gaddafi/Assad and help all those people" was the same line coming from the same people who now will say "how can you not want to help those people fleeing Islamic State" forgetting that it was the beast they created. The road to hell is paved with good intentions.


People are willing to die to escape the awful situation which we caused - this in itself shows how torturous the situation is. The least we can do is let them in our country.

Hopefully this situation will show us that we need to stop bombing other countries and mind our own damn business.

I'm afraid not. The idea that normal Britons should pay and then suffer the cultural consequences of allowing illegal immigrants in is just wrong as it was the leaders and media who pushed for military action and are now pushing for the illegal immigrants to be let in. The ideal solution, and one I would back is this: north London (home of the politicians and liberal media class) should have a wall built around it and illegals housed there.

But again, I refer to international asylum rules: these people aren't "fleeing" Turkey and Tunisia as both are safe countries. They are coming to Britain, Germany and the Netherlands because they know they will be pampered here hence why they are risking their lives for it. $$$.

[ToxicMint]

I'm afraid not. The idea that normal Britons should pay and then suffer the cultural consequences of allowing illegal immigrants in is just wrong as it was the leaders and media who pushed for military action and are now pushing for the illegal immigrants to be let in. The ideal solution, and one I would back is this: north London (home of the politicians and liberal media class) should have a wall built around it and illegals housed there.

But again, I refer to international asylum rules: these people aren't "fleeing" Turkey and Tunisia as both are safe countries. They are coming to Britain, Germany and the Netherlands because they know they will be pampered here hence why they are risking their lives for it. $$$.

omfgggg i laughed at blocking off london omg. i back that 100%.

[Empired]

I knew this thread would be coming up and although I don't really like using HxF anymore I am interested to see what people have to say about this and I'm glad to see I haven't been disappointed.

I, too, think that the change of public opinion followed by the picture of the dead toddler was outrageous but for very different reasons. We know people have been dying out there for weeks and weeks now but it takes the picture of one dead toddler for us to think "oh ****, we'd probably better do something"?! Of course it's a good thing that we've suddenly been given a kick up the backside but I am embarrassed because it looks like we're only interested in one toddler rather than a whole group of people in desperate need of help. It just seems like we're saying "**** everyone else, let's just save the toddlers! ... But we can't do that so we'll have to do something about all of them."

I don't really think there's much of an argument (or a sane argument, at the very least) against letting these people into our country. You can call them whatever you like- illegal immigrants, migrants, asylum seekers- but at the end of the day they are people just like you and me. If our situation was reversed we would be desperate for any safe countries to help us out so why is it so outrageous to suggest that we help them? And way in the future when our situations could very well be reversed, why should those countries help us out if we turn our backs now?

Of course we have the space! That argument makes us sound like we're all huddled on the Isle of Wight pushed right up against each other with no room to sit down or move. Isn't it Iceland who have been offering up their spare rooms for refugees to come and stay in? I'm sure if everyone in Europe who had a spare room offered their help the problem would be much easier to solve. And obviously I'm not saying let's force everyone to give up their spare rooms, but I am saying that this absurd "space" argument is just that: absurd. We don't need all this space, we just want it because it makes us more comfortable. And when there are people sitting out in the ocean on boats who would rather take those chances instead of going back to their own country, our comfort levels are really not that important.

And finally, I really don't think who "started it" should have any impact on what we should be doing now at all. The fact simply remains that if we can do something to help other human beings then there is no question that we should.

[-:Undertaker:-]

I agree with your point on the drowned child.

As it so happens, I have read that apparently the family were already based in Turkey yet the father decided to risk himself and his entire family to get to the more generous welfare states like Germany. The BBC and others of course don't mention any of this, and the way the press have behaved is sinister.


You can call them whatever you like- illegal immigrants, migrants, asylum seekers- but at the end of the day they are people just like you and me.

So let's take that argument then that everyone in the world is a human being, all the same and we should let them in.

What about the cultural problems that will arise?
What about the extremist elements of their culture which you would be bringing in?
What about the numbers? Where is the housing, education and welfare coming from when we can barely effort it for our own people?

And taking that logic to the extreme, if it is true... then you are suggesting there should be no limit to the numbers who keep coming? Are you really saying that? Even under a quota system it simply encourages more and more to come... we could already end up with a situation of millions upon millions of people flooding into European nations. Germany is already taking near to a million people - how on earth can a million+ people within months be integrated into German society?

And if you advocate that, don't the peoples of Europe - the native Europeans - get a say in whether their culture is diminished or entirely replaced?


our comfort levels are really not that important.

Yes they are. I do not want to live in a society plagued by sectarian divisions.

Is western civilisation, that took hundreds of years to achieve, that worthless to you that you'll simply give it up at the drop of a hat to feel good about yourself?

[FlyingJesus]

There's a huge difference between an illegal immigrant who just wants something easier than the non-luxurious life they were born in and asylum seekers whose lives are genuinely at risk. It's a matter of want vs need, and it's a very important distinction to make in order to not completely dehumanise people who sadly have no viable option other than to flee their homes in hope of not being tortured for saying things aren't perfect.

I'm not a fan of the idea that, having reached a safe state, they then feel it's worth moving on again - this is moving into the realm of want rather than need - but simply saying "oh sod them all" because you don't want the minor inconvenience of seeing someone who doesn't look like you is ridiculous.


how on earth can a million+ people within months be integrated into German society?

Quite easily considering Western society is exactly what these people are seeking. You're mistaking two very different groups of people

[-:Undertaker:-]

There's a huge difference between an illegal immigrant who just wants something easier than the non-luxurious life they were born in and asylum seekers whose lives are genuinely at risk. It's a matter of want vs need, and it's a very important distinction to make in order to not completely dehumanise people who sadly have no viable option other than to flee their homes in hope of not being tortured for saying things aren't perfect.

I'm not a fan of the idea that, having reached a safe state, they then feel it's worth moving on again - this is moving into the realm of want rather than need - but simply saying "oh sod them all" because you don't want the minor inconvenience of seeing someone who doesn't look like you is ridiculous.

If you continue to invent and make up what I have said to fit the racist slant you want to slap on me then i'm just not debating with you anymore until you stop. I have brought up a whole list of sensible and explained reasons as to why these illegal immigrants should not be allowed to stay in European nations, ranging from internationally agreed asylum laws - which they have broken - to cultural, social and security reasons. Not once was race or racial features mentioned.

I'm only going to have a sensible discussion on the points I raised rather than having racist screamed at me hysterically. I just won't put up with it anymore. It's boring. It gets repetitive. It drags the discussion down to the sewers and is a personal attack rather than an attack from an academic PoV. Just drop it for once.

[FlyingJesus]

That wasn't aimed at you (or I'd have quoted you before it) it was a general comment, no need to cry. Brilliant irony with you of all people trying to tell someone off for making up arguments though, top draw. You've also somehow managed to claim that you'll respond to discussion on the points raised and then totally ignored everything except for one subordinate clause that you wrongly took personally. If you'd like to try again without the tantrum, I'd be glad to continue this properly

[abc]

I'm afraid not. The idea that normal Britons should pay and then suffer the cultural consequences of allowing illegal immigrants in is just wrong as it was the leaders and media who pushed for military action and are now pushing for the illegal immigrants to be let in.

We voted for these leaders. You may disagree with our current electoral system but we voted for these leaders. These leaders take decisions on our behalf (even if we disagree with it) and we are the ones who need to live with the consequences. It is wrong to say we voted for these leaders, the leaders screwed up but the public shouldn't be affected by any negative actions. If we benefit from our leaders actions then we should suffer from it too.

I dislike how so many people forget that this country is rich by invading the world and taking all their wealth. Now to lord it over them is wrong. People moan that foreigners come and take our jobs? That very line makes me laugh. They take jobs because it shows how unqualified that other person is. Free Education and a person still can't become well qualified for a job. Yet others from countries where you have to pay for education are able to study hard and come and take a job. You know what, so many people in this country take Education for granted. Like it is a chore. Yet countries where you have to pay for it, people realise the importance and value of education and take loans.

The fact remains, if someone else (migrant or a british) gets a job over someone else, it is because the company at that moment in time decided the other person was more qualified.

I suggest people read these two links before going on about how UK is a hot migrant magnet.

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/aug/07/britain-refugee-magnet-sudanese-channel-tunnel

http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2015/aug/10/10-truths-about-europes-refugee-crisis

Btw the refugee we are talking about taking in are people from UN camps.

I completely agree with Empired. Btw -:Undertaker:- the above is not directed at you, it is directed at anyone who cries, moans and all the rest about how these illegals come to UK and take our jobs and benefits.

[peteyt]

Bringing them here won't fix the problem and it will probably bring more problems here if anything. I have no problem with allowing people to come to this country but I believe we are already too open and should let less people in not more. We have our own problems to deal with and while they might not be big compared to the situations overseas, we still need to deal with them

[abc]

Bringing them here won't fix the problem and it will probably bring more problems here if anything. I have no problem with allowing people to come to this country but I believe we are already too open and should let less people in not more. We have our own problems to deal with and while they might not be big compared to the situations overseas, we still need to deal with them

We are way less open than many European countries like Germany. If we didn't cause problems in these peoples countries then we wouldn't have to "deal with them".

[-:Undertaker:-]

We voted for these leaders. You may disagree with our current electoral system but we voted for these leaders. These leaders take decisions on our behalf (even if we disagree with it) and we are the ones who need to live with the consequences. It is wrong to say we voted for these leaders, the leaders screwed up but the public shouldn't be affected by any negative actions. If we benefit from our leaders actions then we should suffer from it too.

We voted for our leaders, that is correct. But those parties which were elected into the Commons chamber campaigned on the basis of specifically lowering legal immigration into this country (all made this pledge) and made no reference to what is now happening which is the end of the internationally agreed rule for asylum seekers which is that they claim safety in the first country they reach which is safe, ie the Republic of Turkey which is a first world country and a member of NATO. In much the same way, the British people did not vote for this country to be a part of the EU Schengen Area which is now de facto happening with us opting into this bizzare plan to take growing numbers of people who have no place in northern European countries.

The British people did not vote for illegal immigrants in their thousands to be allowed into this country against long-standing asylum conventions.

[abc]

We voted for our leaders, that is correct. But those parties which were elected into the Commons chamber campaigned on the basis of specifically lowering legal immigration into this country (all made this pledge) and made no reference to what is now happening which is the end of the internationally agreed rule for asylum seekers which is that they claim safety in the first country they reach which is safe, ie the Republic of Turkey which is a first world country and a member of NATO. In much the same way, the British people did not vote for this country to be a part of the EU Schengen Area which is now de facto happening with us opting into this bizzare plan to take growing numbers of people who have no place in northern European countries.

The British people did not vote for illegal immigrants in their thousands to be allowed into this country against long-standing asylum conventions.

What many people do not realise is that the UK has majorly clamped down on UK migrants. It is very difficult for someone to come to this country and get a permanent residence and citizenship is even more difficult. The length of visas given to foreign workers (non-EU) is such that they can never qualify for permanent residence or citizenship. So in that sense the government has worked towards its pledge of lowering legal migrants.

However this situation has arisen because we decided to poke our nose everywhere and destroy their countries (directly and indirectly) and we must therefore take our fair share of the responsibility. Turkey can no way take in every refugee, that is ridiculous. The matter at hand is that all countries take their fair share of the refugees. What you do not realise is that many European countries who did not contribute to destroying these refugees countries are still helping them, yet this country which did directly contribute doesn't want to? Its ridiculous.

We voted for politicians, who make decisions on behalf of the country (whether we agree or disagree with them) and we must take responsibility. Gosh this is 2015, the world is a free world. How can we let borders decide who suffers and who lives with benefits? We are all humans, lets treat each other like one. We need to show empathy, compassion and emotion. Borders should no longer decide who suffers and who is OK. We do not decide which country we are born in.


made no reference to what is now happening which is the end of the internationally agreed rule for asylum seekers which is that they claim safety in the first country they reach which is safe, ie the Republic of Turkey which is a first world country and a member of NATO.

Further to my post above, let me ask you this. Say UK was the first 'safe' country and we were geographically located where Turkey is. Would you be happy with us taking in all of these refugees or would you appeal to the rest of Europe (and countries who caused this situation) to take their fair share?

I would be very interested to see your opinion on this.

[-:Undertaker:-]

What many people do not realise is that the UK has majorly clamped down on UK migrants. It is very difficult for someone to come to this country and get a permanent residence and citizenship is even more difficult. The length of visas given to foreign workers (non-EU) is such that they can never qualify for permanent residence or citizenship. So in that sense the government has worked towards its pledge of lowering legal migrants.

Immigration levels ran at their highest levels ever this year in 2015.

The government has done the polar opposite of what it was elected and pledged to do.


However this situation has arisen because we decided to poke our nose everywhere and destroy their countries (directly and indirectly) and we must therefore take our fair share of the responsibility. Turkey can no way take in every refugee, that is ridiculous. The matter at hand is that all countries take their fair share of the refugees. What you do not realise is that many European countries who did not contribute to destroying these refugees countries are still helping them, yet this country which did directly contribute doesn't want to? Its ridiculous.

What other countries decide to do isn't how British policy should be followed. Britain is following the existing agreements in regards to asylum seekers and legal asylum as the rules have stood for many years, it is other European nations which are breaking those agreements. In any case, we are not alone in this as Poland, Slovenia, the Czech Republic, Hungary and now even Austria are all saying that enough is enough and just because Germany has decided it will hand out passports like confetti does not mean everybody else should suffer the consequences especially when they were not consulted on changing (or dropping) Schengen visa rules. In addition to this, Britain is not even a member of the Schengen Area.

British policy should be on what benefits this country and what the people who live here want.


We voted for politicians, who make decisions on behalf of the country (whether we agree or disagree with them) and we must take responsibility. Gosh this is 2015, the world is a free world. How can we let borders decide who suffers and who lives with benefits? We are all humans, lets treat each other like one. We need to show empathy, compassion and emotion. Borders should no longer decide who suffers and who is OK. We do not decide which country we are born in.

That all sounds very nice but that isn't realistic. Do you not understand or grasp that nationhood and identity are important factors in determining often why a country or civilisation is successful and wealthy? Do you not understand that by simply opening the borders up to anybody and everyone, you'd invite millions of different people into this country which would result in civil war and sectarianism?

All I can say is look at Northern Ireland or Yugoslavia. The two groups in Northern Ireland, the protestants and the catholics, have been at one anothers throats for hundreds and hundreds of years despite speaking the same language, being of the same ethnic group, sharing the same culture. Yet because of a slight religous difference between two schools of the same religion, the island has been soaked in blood for hundreds of years and even now sectarianism is just around the corner in everyday life.

Borders matter and so does culture. Why should European nations and European people have their culture extinguished or diluted?


Further to my post above, let me ask you this. Say UK was the first 'safe' country and we were geographically located where Turkey is. Would you be happy with us taking in all of these refugees or would you appeal to the rest of Europe (and countries who caused this situation) to take their fair share?

It would depend on the context and the neighbour, say if there were a crisis in the French Republic then I would consider taking in a certain number.

[FlyingJesus]

The problems in Ireland have their roots in military invasion, not asylum seekers. Culture isn't affected by people who want to join our culture, which is literally what these people are wanting to come here for

[-:Undertaker:-]

The problems in Ireland have their roots in military invasion

And masses of different people coming over in migration waves/invasions.


not asylum seekers. Culture isn't affected by people who want to join our culture, which is literally what these people are wanting to come here for

Don't confuse people coming to wealthy countries for better living standards as the same as those who wish to integrate/hold western values.

The Iranian Revolution is the perfect example that economic motives are separate to culture.

[FlyingJesus]

And masses of different people coming over in migration waves/invasions.

No, just the fact that those people were forcibly displacing the natives and enforcing rule over them. Not the same as modern immigration in any way at all, no matter how you spin it


Don't confuse people coming to wealthy countries for better living standards as the same as those who wish to integrate/hold western values.

The Iranian Revolution is the perfect example that economic motives are separate to culture.

Trying to escape a place where the lives of you and your family is not an economic motive. They are wanting to escape the culture they were born into, not spread it

[AgnesIO]

That said, other European countries shouldn't be taking these people either. You'll have noticed on news outlets like the BBC and Sky News they are being described as 'migrants' which is factually incorrect. A migrant is someone like your dad and my dad who will get a visa and go and work in Canada or Singapore. In much the same way, a genuine asylum seeker is somebody who flees to the first safe country they reach (because if your life is geninely in danger you really aren't picky you are just glad to be in safety). The hoardes coming into Europe and passing safe countries such as Turkey, Lebanon, Tunisia, Egypt are simply illegal immigrants.

Ahhh, I see. You must be referring to the 2,000,000 who have stopped in Turkey, or the 1,000,000 who have stopped in Lebanon, or perhaps the ones you are referring to are the 1,400,000 in Jordan. Maybe, in actual fact, you are referring to the 250,000 in Iraq..

These people are fleeing a war - nobody flees to Iraq for the sake of it, Dan.

Then you - ignorantly, I must say - forget that 10% of Syrian's are Christian, and then there are the 13% whom are Shia Muslim's, and therefore not welcomed in most Middle Eastern states - oh look, suddenly 1 in 4 refugees have a problem in stopping in the first so-called 'safe' country.

But then, to be honest, referring to Christian values is laughable in a country that has lost vast swath's of any values that may have existed 50 years ago.

I also find it laughable that you are trying to blame the media for this uproar. Is that the same media that has been fighting against these people for months on end? The same media that has been happy to describe them as a 'swarm'? Oh, that media. Of course.

[-:Undertaker:-]

Here's one of the many reported videos of the lovely illegal immigrants in Greece that the media won't show.

Why should the Greek people and the peoples of Europe have to put up with this?



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Iq6Yxx6GxY


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tl16QDk2sig


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UoJIDgTKc6k



No, just the fact that those people were forcibly displacing the natives and enforcing rule over them. Not the same as modern immigration in any way at all, no matter how you spin it

It doesn't matter how they were let in, it is all about numbers and our ability to integrate people.

If you have too many coming in at once, as we have with 700,000+ a year, then you cannot accomodate people. End of story.


Trying to escape a place where the lives of you and your family is not an economic motive. They are wanting to escape the culture they were born into, not spread it

I am afraid it is. I do not know how many times I have to repeat this, but illegals are acually moving through safe countries such as the Hellenic Republic and even Italy and Austria in order to reach Germany. You know this, I know this and that defies the agreements on asylum.

The point from which you leave a safe country like NATO member Turkey and try to get to a wealthier country means you cease to be a refugee.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bhSQb9Zhna4


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cn3gY-Y1xUY


I have also read stories similar to what the video above shows which is the illegal immigrants turning away food or throwing it on the floor for various reasons, some cited as halal. And yet despite the ghettoisation of our cities already, you make the hiliarious claim they're just the same as we westerners. Ha ha ha!

As one of the videos above alludes to and as does another I have seen, there have been street fights and riots between different groups such as the Afghans against the Iraqis and god knows what else. And yet, we're importing these tribal cultures into our society and they are - surprise surprise - bringing the violence.



Ahhh, I see. You must be referring to the 2,000,000 who have stopped in Turkey, or the 1,000,000 who have stopped in Lebanon, or perhaps the ones you are referring to are the 1,400,000 in Jordan. Maybe, in actual fact, you are referring to the 250,000 in Iraq..

These people are fleeing a war - nobody flees to Iraq for the sake of it, Dan.

I do not deny people are fleeing a warzone, initially. I do dispute the fact that so-called asylum seekers are in danger in countries such as Turkey, Tunisia and Greece because they are simply not. And I repeat, moving for economic reasons means they then cease to be genuine refugees.


Then you - ignorantly, I must say - forget that 10% of Syrian's are Christian, and then there are the 13% whom are Shia Muslim's, and therefore not welcomed in most Middle Eastern states - oh look, suddenly 1 in 4 refugees have a problem in stopping in the first so-called 'safe' country.

But then, to be honest, referring to Christian values is laughable in a country that has lost vast swath's of any values that may have existed 50 years ago.

We live in the afterglow of a Christian society, or do you think islamic society is exactly the same as our own? Is that your claim?


I also find it laughable that you are trying to blame the media for this uproar. Is that the same media that has been fighting against these people for months on end? The same media that has been happy to describe them as a 'swarm'? Oh, that media. Of course.

The media didn't describe them as a swarm. That bloke you voted for did (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/david-cameron/11804861/David-Cameron-says-describing-migrants-as-a-swarm-wasnt-dehumanising.html), David Cameron.

[FlyingJesus]

It doesn't matter how they were let in, it is all about numbers and our ability to integrate people.

If you have too many coming in at once, as we have with 700,000+ a year, then you cannot accomodate people. End of story.

If you can't accept that differences in situation have different results then you're even worse at debating than I thought. A military invasion is nothing like asylum seeking, and regardless we absolutely CAN accommodate people, as proved by y'know... reality.


I am afraid it is. I do not know how many times I have to repeat this, but illegals are acually moving through safe countries such as the Hellenic Republic and even Italy and Austria in order to reach Germany. You know this, I know this and that defies the agreements on asylum.

In my very first post (the one where you completely ignored everything I said in order to piss and cry) I said that I don't agree with people going on like this:

I'm not a fan of the idea that, having reached a safe state, they then feel it's worth moving on again - this is moving into the realm of want rather than need
But quite clearly you don't like reading.


I have also read stories similar to what the video above shows which is the illegal immigrants turning away food or throwing it on the floor for various reasons, some cited as halal. And yet despite the ghettoisation of our cities already, you make the hiliarious claim they're just the same as we westerners. Ha ha ha!

I absolutely have not made such a claim, let's refer back to your tantrum on the first page about making up what people have said and have a good laugh ;) What I've said is that asylum seekers do not wish to bring a culture of legal oppression and fear with them - having religious or ethical beliefs about food is not something that we're unused to in Britain and while the idea of following the rites of a religion properly rather than just using the name to label yourself might be alien to you, to billions of people around the world it really does affect how they live. As for "ghettoisation" if you actually believe that this is something new then your grasp of history really needs a good polishing.

[peteyt]

However this situation has arisen because we decided to poke our nose everywhere and destroy their countries (directly and indirectly) and we must therefore take our fair share of the responsibility. Turkey can no way take in every refugee, that is ridiculous. The matter at hand is that all countries take their fair share of the refugees. What you do not realise is that many European countries who did not contribute to destroying these refugees countries are still helping them, yet this country which did directly contribute doesn't want to? Its ridiculous.

We voted for politicians, who make decisions on behalf of the country (whether we agree or disagree with them) and we must take responsibility. Gosh this is 2015, the world is a free world. How can we let borders decide who suffers and who lives with benefits? We are all humans, lets treat each other like one. We need to show empathy, compassion and emotion. Borders should no longer decide who suffers and who is OK. We do not decide which country we are born in.

Everyone keeps mentioning how we voted for these people. But not everyone did. Some didn't even vote. The public cannot be blamed for decisions out of their hand.

The question I'm asking myself right now is if it was the other way would these countries take us in.

[abc]

Everyone keeps mentioning how we voted for these people. But not everyone did. Some didn't even vote. The public cannot be blamed for decisions out of their hand.

The question I'm asking myself right now is if it was the other way would these countries take us in.

We caused the situation there. We went there to "help" (take oil) and when it went downhill, we cannot run. We wanted to help? Well let's help and take in refugees. Oh wait, we didn't wanna help, we just wanted to go get oil, sell weapons, make money and not care about humans.

[-:Undertaker:-]

If you can't accept that differences in situation have different results then you're even worse at debating than I thought. A military invasion is nothing like asylum seeking, and regardless we absolutely CAN accommodate people, as proved by y'know... reality.

That is because I am not comparing how they got here. I am comparing the influx (number) of people into this country on a historical level. But of course you knew this as does anyone reading, but instead of addressing that question you keep wittering on about the means of how they got here.


I absolutely have not made such a claim, let's refer back to your tantrum on the first page about making up what people have said and have a good laugh ;) What I've said is that asylum seekers do not wish to bring a culture of legal oppression and fear with them - having religious or ethical beliefs about food is not something that we're unused to in Britain and while the idea of following the rites of a religion properly rather than just using the name to label yourself might be alien to you, to billions of people around the world it really does affect how they live. As for "ghettoisation" if you actually believe that this is something new then your grasp of history really needs a good polishing.

Ha ha ha! hiliarious! Has the nerve to claim they don't wish to bring their culture with them and then defends them when they are acting like savages on the streets of Athens and Budapest, and turning their noses up at food because it has the Christian symbol on it.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V8FwM79XwZw


I'm done even arguing with you. You'll still be defending them as they're holding the machette over your head chanting allah akbar. A lost cause.


We caused the situation there. We went there to "help" (take oil) and when it went downhill, we cannot run. We wanted to help? Well let's help and take in refugees. Oh wait, we didn't wanna help, we just wanted to go get oil, sell weapons, make money and not care about humans.

Welcome to realpolitik and foreign policy. Of every single country in the world.

[FlyingJesus]

That is because I am not comparing how they got here. I am comparing the influx (number) of people into this country on a historical level. But of course you knew this as does anyone reading, but instead of addressing that question you keep wittering on about the means of how they got here.

But you need to note the huge difference in how people get to places, since you were trying to claim that the conflicts in Ireland were down to people not worshipping in the same way (pretending that people who like different things can't live together, as usual) which isn't the case. The point from this section of quote has nothing to do with numbers, if you'd care to read back on how it developed


Ha ha ha! hiliarious! Has the nerve to claim they don't wish to bring their culture with them

Why would they want to bring the things they're fleeing from? You're mistaking individual interests and preferences with national culture, which isn't surprising since you hardly ever seem to know the true working definitions of anything and can't tell the difference between singular and plurals when it comes to people


and then defends them when they are acting like savages on the streets of Athens and Budapest

Nope I haven't done that, try again


and turning their noses up at food because it has the Christian symbol on it.

Nowhere in that video is anything of the sort suggested, in fact according to the very person who shot the video it's not that at all (http://www.ilpost.it/2015/08/25/debunking-migrants-video-red-cross-macedonia/). Oops. Still seems daft to me that they'd deny the help that they apparently wanted but it's nothing to do with hating Christianity or wanting to destroy anyone's culture


I'm done even arguing with you. You'll still be defending them as they're holding the machette over your head chanting allah akbar. A lost cause

What exactly am I defending? Not once have I said "all refugees are perfect people who we should give our beds to and bend over for" or anything of the sort, I'm just pointing out that if you're running away from something you tend to not want it following you. You can make up arguments that haven't occurred all you like but as usual it doesn't make you look clever in the slightest. I swear there are five year olds who read better than you do

[peteyt]

We caused the situation there. We went there to "help" (take oil) and when it went downhill, we cannot run. We wanted to help? Well let's help and take in refugees. Oh wait, we didn't wanna help, we just wanted to go get oil, sell weapons, make money and not care about humans.
Again can you really say we. We? I didn't do anything of the sort. Basically what your saying is the many people against the stuff the government has sanctioned now has to deal with the consequences.

Next there will be people complaining that there's not enough jobs because of immigrants and it'll be we let them in.

I'd like to restate that I'm not against immigration but it seems like too many people are thinking with their heart and not their brain right now, just agreeing to let these people in not thinking what issues it may cause in the long term

[AgnesIO]

Again can you really say we. We? I didn't do anything of the sort. Basically what your saying is the many people against the stuff the government has sanctioned now has to deal with the consequences.

Next there will be people complaining that there's not enough jobs because of immigrants and it'll be we let them in.

I'd like to restate that I'm not against immigration but it seems like too many people are thinking with their heart and not their brain right now, just agreeing to let these people in not thinking what issues it may cause in the long term

lol at you basically complaining about how democracy works

[Thordenhime]

First of all i knew from the loaded title ''illegal immigrant'' this was going to be a topic made by someone hateful.

Second of all They aren't immigrants they are refugees the only way these refugees can actually seek asylum into EU countries is through these boats because EU immigrant regulations indicate that they cant seek asylum through embassies in middle eastern countries so in order to claim asylum in the first place they have to get into the EU Illegally.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0_QrIapiNOw


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YO0IRsfrPQ4

[abc]

Again can you really say we. We? I didn't do anything of the sort. Basically what your saying is the many people against the stuff the government has sanctioned now has to deal with the consequences.

Next there will be people complaining that there's not enough jobs because of immigrants and it'll be we let them in.

I'd like to restate that I'm not against immigration but it seems like too many people are thinking with their heart and not their brain right now, just agreeing to let these people in not thinking what issues it may cause in the long term
We as in the country. How is that not obvious? Yes you didn't do anything but the country elected a government who then makes decisions on behalf of the country whether we agree with them or not. And thus we as a country must deal with the consequences.

Anyone who is moaning about all these immigrants or refugees entering our country, read the below quote. And secondly if we stop bombing these countries while pretending to help them, these situation would never arise. But hey, we like to stick our nose in every country and pretend to help. Its crap.

And lastly, if a foreigner can come to this country and not speak good English but get a job over a British born person, it says a lot about the person who didn't get the job. We are in a world where number of jobs will go down as technology replaces them. The world is a survival of the fittest. People in this country should get jobs easily - after all Education is free. But na, so many people waste it and then blame foreigners because blaming others is always easy because gosh how can that person ever be wrong eh? Man I hate all these foreigners coming and taking our jobs, but its cool if we go bomb others, stick our nose in other peoples culture, rob other count


"Emigration is completely out of control in this country, and I'm sick of it. I'm not staying quiet any more. You can't walk down a street in Jamaica or Hong Kong or India without hearing someone speaking English, and in Canada and Australia we have even introduced our own legal system, decimated local communities and installed our own head of state! DISGUSTING! English has now been imposed as the official language of 57 sovereign countries! FIFTY SEVEN!!! What the hell? Who do we think we are?! And the government is doing nothing: any British person can just pack their bags and go and live anywhere in the world at ANY TIME and nobody in the British government will do anything to stop them. If I wanted to, I could just get on a plane to Germany tomorrow, get a job in their booming economy and live there for the rest of my life! My parents could up and retire to Spain or Portugal at a moment's notice! Why should we have that right? It's political correctness gone mad! (And it's also probably, somehow, part of the war on Christmas, and health and safety and women thinking it's ok to wear comfortable, unsexy clothing.)

The figures speak for themselves:
1,300,000 Britons live in Australia; 761,000 in Spain; 678,000 in the USA; 603,000 in Canada; 291,000 in Ireland (11,200 of whom are drawing unemployment benefit from the Irish state), and even 8,500 in Mexico and 7,100 in Kuwait! We're literally EVERYWHERE! I bet there's at least one branch of Greggs in the Falklands.

We need to close our borders immediately before the situation gets even worse for everyone else. We are sleepwalking into a nightmare where a third of the world will be overrun by the British! AGAIN!

EDIT: To all of you really hench army guys sending me hate mail for writing this: I am gay, and I will furiously pleasure myself to your profile picture. Just so you know.

https://www.facebook.com/emlynpearceblog"

[peteyt]

We as in the country. How is that not obvious? Yes you didn't do anything but the country elected a government who then makes decisions on behalf of the country whether we agree with them or not. And thus we as a country must deal with the consequences.

Anyone who is moaning about all these immigrants or refugees entering our country, read the below quote. And secondly if we stop bombing these countries while pretending to help them, these situation would never arise. But hey, we like to stick our nose in every country and pretend to help. Its crap.

And lastly, if a foreigner can come to this country and not speak good English but get a job over a British born person, it says a lot about the person who didn't get the job. We are in a world where number of jobs will go down as technology replaces them. The world is a survival of the fittest. People in this country should get jobs easily - after all Education is free. But na, so many people waste it and then blame foreigners because blaming others is always easy because gosh how can that person ever be wrong eh? Man I hate all these foreigners coming and taking our jobs, but its cool if we go bomb others, stick our nose in other peoples culture, rob other count


"Emigration is completely out of control in this country, and I'm sick of it. I'm not staying quiet any more. You can't walk down a street in Jamaica or Hong Kong or India without hearing someone speaking English, and in Canada and Australia we have even introduced our own legal system, decimated local communities and installed our own head of state! DISGUSTING! English has now been imposed as the official language of 57 sovereign countries! FIFTY SEVEN!!! What the hell? Who do we think we are?! And the government is doing nothing: any British person can just pack their bags and go and live anywhere in the world at ANY TIME and nobody in the British government will do anything to stop them. If I wanted to, I could just get on a plane to Germany tomorrow, get a job in their booming economy and live there for the rest of my life! My parents could up and retire to Spain or Portugal at a moment's notice! Why should we have that right? It's political correctness gone mad! (And it's also probably, somehow, part of the war on Christmas, and health and safety and women thinking it's ok to wear comfortable, unsexy clothing.)

The figures speak for themselves:
1,300,000 Britons live in Australia; 761,000 in Spain; 678,000 in the USA; 603,000 in Canada; 291,000 in Ireland (11,200 of whom are drawing unemployment benefit from the Irish state), and even 8,500 in Mexico and 7,100 in Kuwait! We're literally EVERYWHERE! I bet there's at least one branch of Greggs in the Falklands.

We need to close our borders immediately before the situation gets even worse for everyone else. We are sleepwalking into a nightmare where a third of the world will be overrun by the British! AGAIN!

EDIT: To all of you really hench army guys sending me hate mail for writing this: I am gay, and I will furiously pleasure myself to your profile picture. Just so you know.

https://www.facebook.com/emlynpearceblog"
But 99 percent of the people don't even agree with it. I didn't even vote and I'm sure most parties even agreed to lower the number not the opposite that is now happening.

But that's not my point really. Firstly what we have is as I said people thinking with just their heart - people demanding the government deals with a problem then complaining that they shouldn't have got involved and have made it worse.

What we also don't have is a real solution. Immigration isn't really going to fix the issue long term. As to your quote on its own without evidence it's just numbers anyone could have came up with. Immigration is obviously a problem worldwide but it's the countries to blame not the people.

[abc]

But 99 percent of the people don't even agree with it. I didn't even vote and I'm sure most parties even agreed to lower the number not the opposite that is now happening.

But that's not my point really. Firstly what we have is as I said people thinking with just their heart - people demanding the government deals with a problem then complaining that they shouldn't have got involved and have made it worse.

What we also don't have is a real solution. Immigration isn't really going to fix the issue long term. As to your quote on its own without evidence it's just numbers anyone could have came up with. Immigration is obviously a problem worldwide but it's the countries to blame not the people.

The numbers are actual numbers, not a number someone dreamt up. However your quote is a number you dreamt up "But 99 percent of the people don't even agree with it."
I would quite like to see the stats on this 99%...

We screwed up these peoples countries, now we must take responsibility. We robbed the world, got rich. Gave it all away to lazy people and now we borrow almost £500m a day from China and we call our self rich... laughable.

[-:Undertaker:-]

First of all i knew from the loaded title ''illegal immigrant'' this was going to be a topic made by someone hateful.

Second of all They aren't immigrants they are refugees the only way these refugees can actually seek asylum into EU countries is through these boats because EU immigrant regulations indicate that they cant seek asylum through embassies in middle eastern countries so in order to claim asylum in the first place they have to get into the EU Illegally.

I am sorry but there is nothing hateful about describing people correctly: they ceased to be refugees when they left safe countries such as Turkey and Tunisia. But as you are so compassionate, tell me this: how are the helping the situtation in terms of deaths when it is your own kindness (aka let them all in) which is attracting more and more of them to cross the sea to get here and hence we have more drownings?

Did you not see the Australian solution to this problem where the deaths have now completely stopped and the Australian people are also happy?


We as in the country. How is that not obvious? Yes you didn't do anything but the country elected a government who then makes decisions on behalf of the country whether we agree with them or not. And thus we as a country must deal with the consequences.

No we must not deal with the consequences. The election to government of a political party does not give that government a blank cheque to do anything it likes just because it was elected. We're a constitutional monarchy not a democracy, and in addition to that the government ought to carry out what it pledged when it was campaigning for office: and this government made very strong pledges on reducing the numbers coming into this country which it has utterly failed to do.

My conscience is clearer than most as I voted Ukip but the government should still listen: rather than change policy based on one petition.


Anyone who is moaning about all these immigrants or refugees entering our country, read the below quote. And secondly if we stop bombing these countries while pretending to help them, these situation would never arise. But hey, we like to stick our nose in every country and pretend to help. Its crap.

Syria has not been bombed as far as I know as thankfully, the House of Commons voted it down over two years ago which I am very thankful for: the best decision made in a long time yet even back then I had do-gooders on this forum telling me we should go in to "help" just like now.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gzegRfKImUw



And lastly, if a foreigner can come to this country and not speak good English but get a job over a British born person, it says a lot about the person who didn't get the job. We are in a world where number of jobs will go down as technology replaces them. The world is a survival of the fittest. People in this country should get jobs easily - after all Education is free. But na, so many people waste it and then blame foreigners because blaming others is always easy because gosh how can that person ever be wrong eh? Man I hate all these foreigners coming and taking our jobs, but its cool if we go bomb others, stick our nose in other peoples culture, rob other count

This argument is always recycled when it comes to immigration and it is total nonsense. Let's just take European immigration from the poorer Eastern countries as an example. Now you state that British people losing their jobs and being undercut by mass immigration is just how the world works (no it doesn't as most other countries actually put their own people first but whatever) yet what you fail to understand is that of course immigrants can do that because when you are a Briton working in say industry, with a house and family to pay for: it's a lot harder to survive on low wages than it is for a single, young and fit Polish man who sleeps in a rented bedsit on the floor with ten other men.

It is also disingenuous of you to say this is about hatred of foreigners when time and time again polls show the British people overwhelmingly want immigration brought down: we don't want the lowest paid to be constantly undercut so large corporations can have cheap labour without raising wages, we don't want our towns and cities to change drastically where it no longer even feels like our own country and we do not want a free for all where anybody can literally walk into this country. That is not hatred that is a sensible set of concerns which ought to be addressed.

We want an immigration system like the rest of the world - Japan, Australia, New Zealand - have. That's common sense not hatred.


640465363814215680



The figures speak for themselves:

1,300,000 Britons live in Australia; 761,000 in Spain; 678,000 in the USA; 603,000 in Canada; 291,000 in Ireland (11,200 of whom are drawing unemployment benefit from the Irish state), and even 8,500 in Mexico and 7,100 in Kuwait! We're literally EVERYWHERE! I bet there's at least one branch of Greggs in the Falklands.

We need to close our borders immediately before the situation gets even worse for everyone else. We are sleepwalking into a nightmare where a third of the world will be overrun by the British! AGAIN!

Yes because highly educated and wealthy Britons are totes comparable to Eastern Europeans, Africans, Asians and Arabs.

[abc]

I am sorry but there is nothing hateful about describing people correctly: they ceased to be refugees when they left safe countries such as Turkey and Tunisia. But as you are so compassionate, tell me this: how are the helping the situtation in terms of deaths when it is your own kindness (aka let them all in) which is attracting more and more of them to cross the sea to get here and hence we have more drownings?

Did you not see the Australian solution to this problem where the deaths have now completely stopped and the Australian people are also happy?



No we must not deal with the consequences. The election to government of a political party does not give that government a blank cheque to do anything it likes just because it was elected. We're a constitutional monarchy not a democracy, and in addition to that the government ought to carry out what it pledged when it was campaigning for office: and this government made very strong pledges on reducing the numbers coming into this country which it has utterly failed to do.

My conscience is clearer than most as I voted Ukip but the government should still listen: rather than change policy based on one petition.



Syria has not been bombed as far as I know as thankfully, the House of Commons voted it down over two years ago which I am very thankful for: the best decision made in a long time yet even back then I had do-gooders on this forum telling me we should go in to "help" just like now.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gzegRfKImUw




This argument is always recycled when it comes to immigration and it is total nonsense. Let's just take European immigration from the poorer Eastern countries as an example. Now you state that British people losing their jobs and being undercut by mass immigration is just how the world works (no it doesn't as most other countries actually put their own people first but whatever) yet what you fail to understand is that of course immigrants can do that because when you are a Briton working in say industry, with a house and family to pay for: it's a lot harder to survive on low wages than it is for a single, young and fit Polish man who sleeps in a rented bedsit on the floor with ten other men.

It is also disingenuous of you to say this is about hatred of foreigners when time and time again polls show the British people overwhelmingly want immigration brought down: we don't want the lowest paid to be constantly undercut so large corporations can have cheap labour without raising wages, we don't want our towns and cities to change drastically where it no longer even feels like our own country and we do not want a free for all where anybody can literally walk into this country. That is not hatred that is a sensible set of concerns which ought to be addressed.

We want an immigration system like the rest of the world - Japan, Australia, New Zealand - have. That's common sense not hatred.


640465363814215680




Yes because highly educated and wealthy Britons are totes comparable to Eastern Europeans, Africans, Asians and Arabs.

I am going to reply very quickly. But we must deal with the consequences BECAUSE THE GOVERNMENT MADE A DECISION ON BEHALF OF THE COUNTRY. IT MAKES NO DIFFERENCE WHETHER OR NOT WE VOTED FOR THEM. RIGHT, YOU DIDN'T VOTE PREVIOUS LABOUR, COALITION OR TORY, SO WHY ON EARTH SHOULD YOU BENEFIT FROM ANY OF THEIR POSITIVE ACTION? HELL YOU SHOULDN'T. Its absolutely ridiculous.

And there is no stat to show the British people who moved abroad are "educated and wealthy". It is an assumption you are making. You assume some of these Arabs, Asians, Europeans are not educated. How do you know? They are escaping terror in their country caused indirectly by us. It does not mean they are not educated. I bet you anything they are probably more educated than us. If you look at how education in these countries work you would be shocked. Getting 98% in an exam is not good enough because of competition.

And well welcome to 2015. People need to realise this is a global world and competition for jobs will only grow. Use the free education while it lasts and make the most of it. You go on about how a Polish guy can come here and live on low wages cos he is only feed himself. Well, why can't a Briton go abroad and do the same? Oh wait, there is some status crap.

Due to technology, these labour jobs you talk about won't even exist in the future. There is a reason why UK is no longer a manufacturing country. There is a reason why USA still produces a lot. When people realise the facts and accept it, it will be better for the UK.

Good Night.

[The Don]

The numbers are actual numbers, not a number someone dreamt up. However your quote is a number you dreamt up "But 99 percent of the people don't even agree with it."
I would quite like to see the stats on this 99%...

We screwed up these peoples countries, now we must take responsibility. We robbed the world, got rich. Gave it all away to lazy people and now we borrow almost £500m a day from China and we call our self rich... laughable.

Don't you think it's hypocritical to callously dismiss the concerns of the British population over competition for jobs as "Survival of the Fittest"
And lastly, if a foreigner can come to this country and not speak good English but get a job over a British born person, it says a lot about the person who didn't get the job. We are in a world where number of jobs will go down as technology replaces them. The world is a survival of the fittest. People in this country should get jobs easily - after all Education is free. and then argue we must let these migrants in because we 'owe it to them'? Couldn't someone use your own line of reasoning and brush off any obligations you think we owe these migrants due to our governments past actions as 'survival of the fittest'.

[-:Undertaker:-]

I am going to reply very quickly. But we must deal with the consequences BECAUSE THE GOVERNMENT MADE A DECISION ON BEHALF OF THE COUNTRY. IT MAKES NO DIFFERENCE WHETHER OR NOT WE VOTED FOR THEM. RIGHT, YOU DIDN'T VOTE PREVIOUS LABOUR, COALITION OR TORY, SO WHY ON EARTH SHOULD YOU BENEFIT FROM ANY OF THEIR POSITIVE ACTION? HELL YOU SHOULDN'T. Its absolutely ridiculous.

You've just ignored everything I said about the specific promises this government made in order to be elected.

There's a solution to this though, and one I would back. I'd agree to take the illegal immigrants if a voluntary scheme were set up where people who want them to come here can become 'patrons' of them: meaning they'd provide housing, welfare and pay all the bills as well as integration services for these people with no state assistance at all. If you'd back such a scheme, and become a patron yourself then good for you.

It is time do-gooders were made to step up to the plate rather than lecturing the majority of the country. Would you back my scheme?


And there is no stat to show the British people who moved abroad are "educated and wealthy". It is an assumption you are making. You assume some of these Arabs, Asians, Europeans are not educated. How do you know? They are escaping terror in their country caused indirectly by us. It does not mean they are not educated. I bet you anything they are probably more educated than us. If you look at how education in these countries work you would be shocked. Getting 98% in an exam is not good enough because of competition.

So education and wage levels in Arabia, Africa and Eastern Europe are comparable to the United Kingdom? Purr-lease.


And well welcome to 2015. People need to realise this is a global world and competition for jobs will only grow. Use the free education while it lasts and make the most of it. You go on about how a Polish guy can come here and live on low wages cos he is only feed himself. Well, why can't a Briton go abroad and do the same? Oh wait, there is some status crap.

So you advocate to the British people that instead of controlling immigration which would in time force employers to pay more to their workers in order to pay for their families and housing, that instead they should stay single, not have a family and sleep on the floor for the same low wage job?

I guess that's one corporate "global" view of the world. The other is to control the borders like Japan, Canada and Australia.

[FlyingJesus]

There's a solution to this though, and one I would back. I'd agree to take the illegal immigrants if a voluntary scheme were set up where people who want them to come here can become 'patrons' of them: meaning they'd provide housing, welfare and pay all the bills as well as integration services for these people with no state assistance at all. If you'd back such a scheme, and become a patron yourself then good for you.

There's a huge amount of support for this and it's a good idea I think, my mum's applied somewhere to take people in if it becomes a valid option but it's still currently down to whether the government will allow such a scheme to go ahead. Can see a lot of problems with the administration of it all tbh but it's definitely a good idea in my eyes

[Ms.Aquamarine]

Just an update ~


WASHINGTON (AP) — The United States is making plans to accept 10,000 Syrian refugees in the coming budget year, a significant increase from the 1,500 migrants that have been cleared to resettle in the U.S. since civil war broke out in the Middle Eastern country more than four years ago, the White House said Thursday.

Full article here: http://bigstory.ap.org/article/c8956c9894844196af89891e1ed93e44/white-house-obama-wants-admit-more-syrian-refugees

[FlyingJesus]

Wow talk about a token effort

[AgnesIO]

So education and wage levels in Arabia, Africa and Eastern Europe are comparable to the United Kingdom? Purr-lease.


I like how you removed Asia from your original claim, as you realised you would be wrong.

[FlyingJesus]

The percentage of immigrants with further/higher education far far far outweighs the percentage of native Britons with any qualifications, just throwing that out there. Obviously not going to be the case in a refugee crisis as just about EVERYONE is trying to flee rather than people coming over as postgrads to find work, but in general it's certainly true. SAW IT ON HAVE I GOT NEWS FOR YOU!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[abc]

So education and wage levels in Arabia, Africa and Eastern Europe are comparable to the United Kingdom? Purr-lease.



You had initially mentioned Asia. Asia includes India. India's education > UK. Wage levels - India alone has more millionaires than the whole of the UK population multiplied by four.

You have now removed Asia from the above post.



So you advocate to the British people that instead of controlling immigration which would in time force employers to pay more to their workers in order to pay for their families and housing, that instead they should stay single, not have a family and sleep on the floor for the same low wage job?

I guess that's one corporate "global" view of the world. The other is to control the borders like Japan, Canada and Australia.

I have never said people should stay single. But I am saying people need to realise that if they only look for jobs within UK then they will not succeed in life. This world is now more free, people travel. Companies look all over the world for employees. People need to start looking for jobs globally rather than just within UK because with time and technology, the number of jobs available will decrease. But people don't because naturally people do not like change.

[AgnesIO]

You had initially mentioned Asia. Asia includes India. India's education > UK. Wage levels - India alone has more millionaires than the whole of the UK population multiplied by four.

You have now removed Asia from the above post.



Whilst I totally agree with your post about Asia, to be fair India does have a population 20x larger than the UK. Also, the education system in India has many, many huge flaws - not least because the quality of education varies so widely from state to state.

[Thordenhime]

You had initially mentioned Asia. Asia includes India. India's education > UK. Wage levels - India alone has more millionaires than the whole of the UK population multiplied by four.

You have now removed Asia from the above post.

I have never said people should stay single. But I am saying people need to realise that if they only look for jobs within UK then they will not succeed in life. This world is now more free, people travel. Companies look all over the world for employees. People need to start looking for jobs globally rather than just within UK because with time and technology, the number of jobs available will decrease. But people don't because naturally people do not like change.

The fact that he brushes eastern european countries as not being on the same level as the united kingdom really is the sort of blanketed statement that I expect from a UKIP supporter keep it up : )