Boris Johnson: Japan is "relaxed" about Britain leaving the EU

[-:Undertaker:-]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/eureferendum/11945725/Boris-Johnson-Japan-is-relaxed-about-Britain-leaving-the-EU.html

Boris Johnson: Japan is relaxed about Britain leaving the EU

Boris Johnson says Japan, the world's third largest economy, is not worried about the prospect of an EU referendum or Britain leaving the EU because he knows Britain will remain part of a European free-trade zone 'whatever happens'


http://i.telegraph.co.uk/multimedia/archive/03472/boris-rugby-3_3472978b.jpg
With ball in hand Boris Johnson lines up a young opponent



Boris Johnson has said that Japan, one of the World's most successful economies, is not concerned about the prospect of Britain leaving the European Union. The Mayor of London said after a trip to Japan last week that "no one seems worried" about the referendum on Britain's membership of the EU. He said that Japanese business leaders are "smart enough to know" that Britain will remain in a European free-trade zone "whatever happens".

His comments are in stark contrast to the views of David Cameron (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/eu/11941522/EU-referendum-Think-of-your-cheap-holiday-flights-David-Cameron-tells-voters.html), who earlier this week questioned whether Britain will be able to access the single market if it leaves the European Union. In a diary, published on the Spectator magazine's website (http://blogs.new.spectator.co.uk/2015/10/exclusive-boris-declares-that-japan-is-relaxed-about-britain-leaving-the-eu/), Mr Johnson said: "What was the one question that no one bothered to ask, in three solid days of talking to Japanese business people? "No one seems worried about the UK’s EU referendum. They are smart enough to know that Britain will remain, whatever happens, in a European free-trade zone."

Many pro-Brexit campaigners argue that Britain would be able to win a free trade deal with the EU, similar to that enjoyed by Switzerland, if it left the bloc.

Looks like Boris is going to back British exit in he campaign, he'd be a good figure to have lead it.

But in terms of what he's saying, he's just confirming it for anyone who has looked past the scaremongering. Of course we'd have access to European markets just as we had before 1973: the difference being that we'd be more free to negotiate with rising Asian and Commonwealth economies like India, China, Brazil and so on without having to then negotiate with 28 other European countries and the Commission.

Wearing a shirt, blouse or jacket right now? Check label. China. Taiwan. Bangladesh. Are they in the EU? No. But they sell and buy with the EU.

Simple.

Thoughts?

[FlyingJesus]

I'll have you know my tshirt was made in Mauritius. Great picture to use in a story about Boris making friends with the Japanese lmao FINISH HIM

[abc]

China. Taiwan. Bangladesh. Are they in the EU? No. But they sell and buy with the EU.


Because comparing UK wages with those three countries is logical >.> China can knock up almost anything we make here at a much lower cost, that is why they sell to the whole world.

You know what the UK is the biggest exporter of? AIR. It is a common joke in the shipping industry. A fraction of the containers which come to UK go back with something inside. The rest just have air.

[-:Undertaker:-]

Because comparing UK wages with those three countries is logical >.> China can knock up almost anything we make here at a much lower cost, that is why they sell to the whole world.

You know what the UK is the biggest exporter of? AIR. It is a common joke in the shipping industry. A fraction of the containers which come to UK go back with something inside. The rest just have air.

The United Kingdom is one of the biggest manufacturing nations in the world.
(http://www.parliament.uk/briefing-papers/SN05809.pdf)
The joke here is your pessimism. Lighten up and be more positive and confident, Britain is the 6th biggest economy in the world.

[AgnesIO]

The United Kingdom is one of the biggest manufacturing nations in the world.
(http://www.parliament.uk/briefing-papers/SN05809.pdf)
The joke here is your pessimism. Lighten up and be more positive and confident, Britain is the 6th biggest economy in the world.

Interesting. You completely ignored his point about cheap labour.

[-:Undertaker:-]

Interesting. You completely ignored his point about cheap labour.

Just because a country has cheaper labour does not mean nations with higher, more expensive labour cannot compete. There's more to manufacturing to what wages people are paid: there's skills, education, logistics, technology, infrastructure. In many industries, countries such as China cannot compete with more advanced nations such as say Britain or Germany when it comes to producing (for example) cars as they neither have the education or quality that British and German manufacturing can offer. We tend to produce more high end goods of a better quality compared to what is produced in the Orient.

IE China may be producing millions of cheap plastic action man toys but we're producing tens of thousands of cars and high quality chemical substances.

[abc]

Just because a country has cheaper labour does not mean nations with higher, more expensive labour cannot compete. There's more to manufacturing to what wages people are paid: there's skills, education, logistics, technology, infrastructure. In many industries, countries such as China cannot compete with more advanced nations such as say Britain or Germany when it comes to producing (for example) cars as they neither have the education or quality that British and German manufacturing can offer. We tend to produce more high end goods of a better quality compared to what is produced in the Orient.

IE China may be producing millions of cheap plastic action man toys but we're producing tens of thousands of cars and high quality chemical substances.

If you honestly think that all China is capable of manufacturing is "cheap plastic toys" then you are totally on the wrong track, and in denial.

China has more graduates in engineering than USA. I am not going to bother finding hundreds of statistics to prove you wrong on your ridiculous notion that China lacks education but will post a select few quotes:


...tests showed that Shanghai was top of the international education rankings.


China's education performance - at least in cities such as Shanghai and Hong Kong - seems to be as spectacular as the country's breakneck economic expansion, outperforming many more advanced countries.

And regarding your point of cars, see links below:

http://news.sky.com/story/1357273/range-rover-evoque-now-made-in-china

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/newsbysector/industry/engineering/11562656/Volvo-gears-up-for-manufacturing-in-China.html

The idea that someone else cannot produce something is ridiculous and that complacency is why businesses fail

Fun Fact: Did you know that it is cheaper to buy a ITALIAN MARBLE headstone in UK which has gone from Italy to India (for shaping) to UK than to have the Slab come to UK direct from Italy and be shaped here?

[-:Undertaker:-]

@snr (http://www.habboxforum.com/member.php?u=125189);

you're grasping at individual examples of certain products in order to prove a false point, ie China. China is simply not capable of quality producing on our level. Britain is the world's 8th largest manufacturing nation and we make and sell a lot of goods. That's a fact and one to be positive about rather than negative.

The comment about Italian marble for example just shows it. You remind me of a luddite kind of person who would like to have us reopen the coal mines in Britain even when it is cheaper to ship it in from China (because in that world view somehow it is better paying £50 a ton of coal than £5). Different nations are good at producing different things, Britain isn't a sweatshop anymore (thank god) we're an advanced economy so we are good more so at service sector as well as quality manufacturing. It makes us a lot of money and we have good standards of living. Hence why we're on wages that the Chinese can only dream of.

So I repeat. All of that is a good thing.

[-:Undertaker:-]

... and I would just add, sure there's a lot to improve upon - I would be the first to say it. But I don't see how your pessimism (despite the facts) about British industry and manufacturing then leads you to the conclusion that we'd be better being run by Belgian bureacrats who are some of the most pro-green taxation and pro-regulation fanatics in the western world: both of which are an anathema to manufacturing, an industry that requires a lot of (cheap) energy.

[abc]

@snr (http://www.habboxforum.com/member.php?u=125189);

you're grasping at individual examples of certain products in order to prove a false point, ie China. China is simply not capable of quality producing on our level. Britain is the world's 8th largest manufacturing nation and we make and sell a lot of goods. That's a fact and one to be positive about rather than negative.

The comment about Italian marble for example just shows it. You remind me of a luddite kind of person who would like to have us reopen the coal mines in Britain even when it is cheaper to ship it in from China (because in that world view somehow it is better paying £50 a ton of coal than £5). Different nations are good at producing different things, Britain isn't a sweatshop anymore (thank god) we're an advanced economy so we are good more so at service sector as well as quality manufacturing. It makes us a lot of money and we have good standards of living. Hence why we're on wages that the Chinese can only dream of.

So I repeat. All of that is a good thing.

Oh my. I am not grasping at individual examples. You boldly claimed Chinese people are uneducated, unskilled and therefore are incapable of making a quality product. You use car manufacturing as an example. Therefore I proved you wrong by stating that Range Rover who is as British as you are going to get have even opened a factory in China. In the past 30 years, the UK's manufacturing sector has shrunk by two-thirds.

I used the example of Italian Marble to prove skilled labour at a cheap rate exists in countries like India and China because you seem to think the east has no skilled people (how ridiculous!).

The Chinese are on wages British people once were on. They are just in a phase we were once in.


... and I would just add, sure there's a lot to improve upon - I would be the first to say it. But I don't see how your pessimism (despite the facts) about British industry and manufacturing then leads you to the conclusion that we'd be better being run by Belgian bureacrats who are some of the most pro-green taxation and pro-regulation fanatics in the western world: both of which are an anathema to manufacturing, an industry that requires a lot of (cheap) energy.

It is not about being negative or positive. It is about being realistic. Simply being positive is what leads to failure in these situations, you need to be realistic. The EU helps our economy. I could say the same thing to you ... why aren't you being positive about the EU instead of your pessimism.

[-:Undertaker:-]

Oh my. I am not grasping at individual examples. You boldly claimed Chinese people are uneducated, unskilled and therefore are incapable of making a quality product. You use car manufacturing as an example.

Chinese people are on the whole lacking education and skills comparable to western nations such as Britain, yes. A simple look at wage rates would confirm this, or if I have to prove it with education statistics then https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Education_Index > 2013.

We have many needs of China (investment) and China has many needs from us, specialist education/skills and knowledge.


Therefore I proved you wrong by stating that Range Rover who is as British as you are going to get have even opened a factory in China. In the past 30 years, the UK's manufacturing sector has shrunk by two-thirds.

It has shruken as a proportion of the % of total British economy yes, that is what happens when an economy becomes advanced and moves towards the service sector. In much the same way that the agricultural industry in Britain has decreased as a proportion of the economy from say 50%+ in 1600 to a mere 2% now yet it is producing more and is wealthier than it has ever been. That's like basic economics.


I used the example of Italian Marble to prove skilled labour at a cheap rate exists in countries like India and China because you seem to think the east has no skilled people (how ridiculous!).

Did I claim there were absolutely no skilled people in the Orient? No of course not, so don't be pedantic. I did claim however, correctly as you'll see from the link above in regards to education, that China and other eastern economies do not have the skills or education that we have and that is why they buy high quality goods from Britain, Germany, America, Canada and so on because western goods are based more on high performance, specialisation and quality.


The Chinese are on wages British people once were on. They are just in a phase we were once in.

Indeed. Just like Japan in the 1960s and Hong Kong/Taiwan/Singapore in the 1980s.

And good. Deng Xiaoping bringing capitalism to China has lifted hundreds of millions of people out of agrarian poverty.


It is not about being negative or positive. It is about being realistic. Simply being positive is what leads to failure in these situations, you need to be realistic. The EU helps our economy. I could say the same thing to you ... why aren't you being positive about the EU instead of your pessimism.

You keep repeating the EU helps our economy but have yet to back up this claim. Instead, all you've done is spent the entire thread spouting untruths about the British economy as though we're pathetic and finished when we're the 6th biggest world economy, the leading financial power and the world's 8th manufacturing nation despite your untrue claims that all we export is air. We're also predicted, on current trends, to be the only European country left in the G10 by 2050.

The EU is shrinking as a % of the world economy, why would you want to chain Britain to a shrinking 1950s style trade bloc? It is madness.

[abc]

Chinese people are on the whole lacking education and skills comparable to western nations such as Britain, yes. A simple look at wage rates would confirm this, or if I have to prove it with education statistics then https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Education_Index > 2013.

We have many needs of China (investment) and China has many needs from us, specialist education/skills and knowledge.



It has shruken as a proportion of the % of total British economy yes, that is what happens when an economy becomes advanced and moves towards the service sector. In much the same way that the agricultural industry in Britain has decreased as a proportion of the economy from say 50%+ in 1600 to a mere 2% now yet it is producing more and is wealthier than it has ever been. That's like basic economics.



Did I claim there were absolutely no skilled people in the Orient? No of course not, so don't be pedantic. I did claim however, correctly as you'll see from the link above in regards to education, that China and other eastern economies do not have the skills or education that we have and that is why they buy high quality goods from Britain, Germany, America, Canada and so on because western goods are based more on high performance, specialisation and quality.



Indeed. Just like Japan in the 1960s and Hong Kong/Taiwan/Singapore in the 1980s.

And good. Deng Xiaoping bringing capitalism to China has lifted hundreds of millions of people out of agrarian poverty.



You keep repeating the EU helps our economy but have yet to back up this claim. Instead, all you've done is spent the entire thread spouting untruths about the British economy as though we're pathetic and finished when we're the 6th biggest world economy, the leading financial power and the world's 8th manufacturing nation despite your untrue claims that all we export is air. We're also predicted, on current trends, to be the only European country left in the G10 by 2050.

The EU is shrinking as a % of the world economy, why would you want to chain Britain to a shrinking 1950s style trade bloc? It is madness.

Debating with you is like debating with a brick wall now a days.

"Did I claim there were absolutely no skilled people in the Orient? No of course not, so don't be pedantic. I did claim however, correctly as you'll see from the link above in regards to education, that China and other eastern economies do not have the skills or education that we have and that is why they buy high quality goods from Britain, Germany, America, Canada and so on because western goods are based more on high performance, specialisation and quality."

Comparing western education to eastern education? Seriously. Education in the East is now far superior to that of the West. I know from personal experience and the stats will easily back me up so I do not even need to go looking for one. Yes Britain currently produces high quality goods, but it is nonsense and outright stupid to think that Eastern countries cannot do so. You said we produce cars because they are incapable. I showed you they can build cars. Gosh if they can have skilled people for nuclear weapons, high rises, massive factories, you really think they cannot make anything we can? Wake up. Anything can be made in any country if someone sets their mind to it.

Difference between me and you? I am trying to be realistic. You are not. Once you become realistic, you make decisions which will benefit the country. I am not trying to be negative because I am from India. I have been brought up here, I have studied here and I will live here. I am British. But I would rather be realistic than live in a dream world.

I have already explained in the previous threads why EU helps the UK. You just ignore me and I am bored of repeating myself.

[FlyingJesus]

That's not fair, brick walls don't invent arguments and then claim to have won

[-:Undertaker:-]

so @snr (http://www.habboxforum.com/member.php?u=125189); claims we aren't manufacturing much other than "air", i prove him wrong with official stats showing the opposite and yet i'm "inventing" the arguments.

he also claims that education levels in the east are superior to the west and i prove him wrong agains with official stats. yet i'm the brick wall.

lol alright then.

[FlyingJesus]

so @snr (http://www.habboxforum.com/member.php?u=125189); claims we aren't manufacturing much other than "air", i prove him wrong with official stats showing the opposite and yet i'm "inventing" the arguments.

His actual claim with regards to air ("A fraction of the containers which come to UK go back with something inside. The rest just have air.") was not in any way countered or addressed by your figures about us making lots of money through manufacturing. You did not in any way show proof that his claim was wrong because you didn't post anything even distantly related to what he said, just a pdf that essentially concludes "we've made some stuff but not as much as we used to make. Cheers". Which is nice I guess, hooray for us if we made coin, but it's got sod all to do with what you were meant to be refuting. The original claim might be a load of bull, I don't know, but until one of you comes up with some figures and charts on the movement of empty shipping containers AND WHAT FUN THAT WILL BE you're both just flapping around throwing unrelated stats at each other from tangents so fine that they're almost invisible... in other words...

INVENTING ARGUMENTS

[-:Undertaker:-]

@FlyingJesus (http://www.habboxforum.com/member.php?u=24753);

I didn't counter his claims about British manufacturing? I linked him and you to data showing we're the 8th largest manufacturing nation in the world.

Talk of 'empty' containers (product bulk is different to money actually made in exports/imports) isn't statistics or hard data you absolute plonker.


It'd be like if I traded you my £500m Diamond Crown (tiny in size but very valuable) for 900,00 bikes worth £4m. My shipment to you would be very tiny in size whereas yours would be many containers coming my way. It doesn't mean that just because something is bulky that it is somehow better/more profitable.

That's kinda what children learn at Christmas around age 7.

[FlyingJesus]

You can't ride that many bikes don't be silly.

And you're missing the point - neither you nor he have given any stats or figures whatsoever about what is actually made here, even though that's where the whole argument started. You can do so now if you feel like and that would be fab, but so far this is two pages of invented arguments from you both