Cap X: Why Indians want Britain out of the EU

[-:Undertaker:-]

http://www.capx.co/why-indians-want-britain-out-of-the-eu/

Why Indians want Britain out of the EU


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David Cameron is calling in favours from world leaders at present. He wants them to opine that Britain, everything considered, ought to stay in the EU. They often oblige: heads of government do that sort of thing for each other. So we may be pretty certain that, when India’s Narendra Modi comes to London next week, Britain’s PM will try to charm him into saying that India is happy for the UK to retain its current arrangements.

The trouble is, it’s not true. I have spent the past week in India, talking to business, university and political audiences in Bombay, Bangalore and New Delhi. I haven’t come across a single Euro-enthusiast. What I’ve heard, instead, is frustration at the EU’s nine years of delay over negotiating a free trade agreement, and annoyance at the way Brussels rules on free movement discriminate against Commonwealth nationals, including those with strong family links to the UK.

It’s true that Indian businessmen want Britain to trade freely with the EU. So do British Eurosceptics. So do Brussels officials. So does everyone else. Our market access is not in question. Some 45 European states, from Iceland to Turkey, form a common market, 28 of whose members are also in the EU. No one is suggesting that Britain would cease to be one of the 45. But you don’t have to join a political union with your neighbours in order to trade with them. Britain’s organic ties with India – ties of habit and history, language and law, family and friendship – are being displaced by top-down, artificial ties with the EU.


https://socioecohistory.files.wordpress.com/2011/12/euro_breakdown.jpg


They were displaced, first, because Britain was forced to apply the EU’s Common External Tariff after 1973. Where we had been in the habit of buying textiles and commodities from the subcontinent, we now found ourselves subject to protectionist interests elsewhere in Europe. An exporter in my constituency would naturally trade more easily with a firm in Ludhiana than with one in Ljubljana. As well as the English language, the two companies would have the same accountancy systems and commercial practices. If there were a dispute between them, it will be arbitrated under a common law model familiar to both parties. None of these things is true of the EU.

Two generations ago, when most business was localised and freight costs were high, regional customs unions had a certain appeal. But in the Internet age, geographical proximity has never mattered less. Culture and kinship trump distance. Sadly, they don’t always trump politics. An Indian World War Two veteran, arriving at Heathrow Airport, must line up with the rest of the world while men who might have served on the other side stroll through as EU nationals. Non-EU students, of whom Indians used to be the largest component, are now chased out of Britain on the completion of their degrees to free up space for unlimited numbers of EU migrants, who have the right to settle as if they were British, even when they have no connection whatever to the UK.

Next year, Britain will have to decide whether we are defined chiefly by our geography. Must we merge with states which happen to be in the vicinity, or do we recognise that some values transcend continents, linking us to kindred peoples in more distant lands? Those jawans from the Ganges plains whose names are carved into the Menin Gate at Ypres, those ryots from the Deccan who dropped their ploughs to shoulder rifles in East Africa, gave their answer to that question. Were they wrong?

An interesting article.

By the 2040s, India will be in the top 5 global economies and Britain will remain the only European country in the global top 10.

Why not seize the chance now by leaving the EU and forging trade ties with our real (& increasingly wealthy) friends in the Commonwealth? Why remain locked into an increasingly unworkable, slow and sluggish 1950s style trade bloc that is the EU when there's so much more opportunity out there?

Thoughts?

[abc]

Where do you find this crap? UK leaving EU would affect our credit rating, it would devalue the pound and would make Indian exports more expensive. So India wants UK to stay in the EU. Leaving would harm Indian businesses so why the hell would they want us to leave?! The article writer is clearly not educated enough on the subject, hence he works for this website...


I have spent the past week in India, talking to business, university and political audiences in Bombay, Bangalore and New Delhi. I haven’t come across a single Euro-enthusiast.

This person did not look hard enough, we run an Indian company and I am Pro-EU. And most people in India do not really care about the UK as much as this person thinks.

Secondly, being in the EU makes UK part of a larger global economy and therefore more powerful in the greater scheme of things.

Thirdly, I am going to see Prime Minister Modi in London on Friday, will be interesting to see if he mentions the UK-EU ties. If given the opportunity I will personally ask him for his opinion on this.


Non-EU students, of whom Indians used to be the largest component, are now chased out of Britain on the completion of their degrees to free up space for unlimited numbers of EU migrants

Didn't people like you want them out anyway as you wanted to restrict immigration? So many people in the 2010 election were like "omg all these foreigners..." that is what has made it so hard for Indian students to get a job in this country after completing their degree. Even if they managed to find a job, their work permit is only for 3 or 4 years after which they are forced to leave the country for at least one year before getting another work permit. This means they do not stay for 5 years in a row which would have allowed them to allow for permanent residence permit.

This awful site clearly wants the UK out of the EU hence is biased. And the writing is dam awful, as proven by the below article. Coincidentally the same author also writes for another rubbish newspaper "Scottish Daily Mail". I see a trend on the people this website hires...

http://www.capx.co/brexit-lunatics-will-destroy-britain/

Here is a comment from a respected national newspaper. Oh and it talks about the opinion of British companies - given your nationalism I would think you would want to give priority to what British businesses think and want rather than Indian businesses.


...that most British businesses recognise that it is not to their benefit to leave the EU.

[FlyingJesus]

"The trouble is, it’s not true. I have spent the past week in India, talking to business, university and political audiences in Bombay, Bangalore and New Delhi. I haven’t come across a single Euro-enthusiast."

lmao one person spending a week speaking to people who already agree with him is not proof of anything nor is it any kind of scientific method of research. "IN MY EXPERIENCE..." is one of the worst ways to argue any factual point, sharing a place with "IT JUST IS" and "I'M NOT GOING TO EDUCATE YOU"

[-:Undertaker:-]

Where do you find this crap? UK leaving EU would affect our credit rating, it would devalue the pound and would make Indian exports more expensive. So India wants UK to stay in the EU. Leaving would harm Indian businesses so why the hell would they want us to leave?! The article writer is clearly not educated enough on the subject, hence he works for this website...

He doesn't work for Cap X. Had you done your research properly you'd realise he's an MEP.

But all you're doing by attacking a website, an author or me is just diverting the argument because you have nothing to say to refute our points other than repeating, like a parrot, wild and unfounded claims about millions of jobs being lost and our credit rating going down for done apparent reason.

Norway, Iceland and Switzerland are non-EU members in Europe and they're very well off for it. Why aren't they in freefall/collapse like you predict?


This person did not look hard enough, we run an Indian company and I am Pro-EU. And most people in India do not really care about the UK as much as this person thinks.

Britain is the 6th largest economy in the world and in 2050 will be the only European country left in the top ten global economies. In addition, we're the world's top financial power and a Great power in terms of military strength and global outreach. But you are kind of right, because of our EU membership Britain isn't as important to Commonwealth countries such as India, Canada, Australia and South Africa as it should be which is why we should leave and re-forge those historic links with Free Trade Deals: something we're currently forbidden to do by being in the declining EU.


Secondly, being in the EU makes UK part of a larger global economy and therefore more powerful in the greater scheme of things.

A meaningless phrase that belongs in a Sixth Form debate. What does that even mean in practical and technical terms?


Thirdly, I am going to see Prime Minister Modi in London on Friday, will be interesting to see if he mentions the UK-EU ties. If given the opportunity I will personally ask him for his opinion on this.

He'll say what the author of the piece predicts him to say. It's hardly going to be shocking.


Didn't people like you want them out anyway as you wanted to restrict immigration? So many people in the 2010 election were like "omg all these foreigners..." that is what has made it so hard for Indian students to get a job in this country after completing their degree. Even if they managed to find a job, their work permit is only for 3 or 4 years after which they are forced to leave the country for at least one year before getting another work permit. This means they do not stay for 5 years in a row which would have allowed them to allow for permanent residence permit.

That's because you don't actually pay attention to what I say on immigration and instead choose to believe what I believe over immigration.


This awful site clearly wants the UK out of the EU hence is biased. And the writing is dam awful, as proven by the below article. Coincidentally the same author also writes for another rubbish newspaper "Scottish Daily Mail". I see a trend on the people this websi

Cap X is an opinion piece website which hosts articles from authors of different opinion pieces, as you have shown below with another article on the EU.

In any case, you haven't actually refuted anything the author (find out who he is darling first!) has said and have instead attacked the website.


Here is a comment from a respected national newspaper. Oh and it talks about the opinion of British companies - given your nationalism I would think you would want to give priority to what British businesses think and want rather than Indian businesses.

Actually I want what is best for Britain, which is why I am pointing out that many across the Commonwealth in business would welcome a British exit from the EU as it would allow Britain to sign FTAs with growing Commonwealth countries. But again you haven't refused this because you cannot.

We'd just sign an FTA with the EU itself, like countless other countries have done: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Union_free_trade_agreements

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"The trouble is, it’s not true. I have spent the past week in India, talking to business, university and political audiences in Bombay, Bangalore and New Delhi. I haven’t come across a single Euro-enthusiast."

lmao one person spending a week speaking to people who already agree with him is not proof of anything nor is it any kind of scientific method of research. "IN MY EXPERIENCE..." is one of the worst ways to argue any factual point, sharing a place with "IT JUST IS" and "I'M NOT GOING TO EDUCATE YOU"

Indian businessmen like most businessmen don't actually care what political union a country is or is not in. What matters to them to make money is market access, and given the EU (and UK) are regulated by WTO rules on tariffs market access would continue: that's not mentioning the political realities of the economic relationship which is that they sell more to us than we do to them so they need us more, that we're the top financial power and that we're the 2nd largest economy in Europe.

Not once has anybody been able to point to evidence that trade would cease or be hurt by the UK withdrawing from the EU.

[FlyingJesus]

What's that got to do with what I said in any way

[abc]

In any case, you haven't actually refuted anything the author (find out who he is darling first!) has said and have instead attacked the website.

I have provided facts, sources for the last few weeks. You have clearly ignored them as I have already refuted what this rubbish author said. Debating with you is like debating with a brick wall. No information is taken in. You ignore me when I provide stats, facts and sources and then accuse me of never providing them. While on the other hand you keep posting threads quoting articles which has no basis and are total rubbish. I swear you must sit and Google anti-EU articles all day to be able to stumble upon the crap you do.

[AgnesIO]

Oh yeah, because India definitely doesn't see the benefits of regional political and european unions (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/South_Asian_Association_for_Regional_Cooperation)

[-:Undertaker:-]

I have provided facts, sources for the last few weeks. You have clearly ignored them as I have already refuted what this rubbish author said. Debating with you is like debating with a brick wall. No information is taken in. You ignore me when I provide stats, facts and sources and then accuse me of never providing them. While on the other hand you keep posting threads quoting articles which has no basis and are total rubbish. I swear you must sit and Google anti-EU articles all day to be able to stumble upon the crap you do.

You keep claiming trade will be hit by withdrawal but you still do not explain how this will happen. I have time and time again pointed out how due to our EU membership we don't have a seat on the World Trade Organisation (http://www.economicvoice.com/the-uk-needs-its-own-seat-at-the-world-trade-organisation-table/) which is the prime organisation for trade negotiations. You come back with nothing. I show time and time again how small nations such as Switzerland have as many FTAs as the European Union does (http://www.seco.admin.ch/themen/00513/00515/01330/04619/?lang=en), yet you come back with diddy squat. I state how the EU would not start a trade war due to them selling us more than we sell them (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/economics/11661581/Trade-deficit-shrinkage-set-to-boost-UK-growth.html) and you have jack so say. I proclaim how we don't even have to be in the EU to be in the Single Market (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Economic_Area) and you have nothing to come back with. You've nothing to say on the EFTA membership option either.

When you can technically point out, using examples, how Britain will economically collapse from EU withdrawal then we'll be able to debate. Until you can address any of those points above then we're really just going round in circles, and at the end of the day for you scaremongering only works for so long.


Oh yeah, because India definitely doesn't see the benefits of regional political and european unions (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/South_Asian_Association_for_Regional_Cooperation)

SAARC is nothing like the European Union just as NAFTA is nothing like the EU.

Nobody has an objection to a trading framework on a regional scale to allow nations to come together to hammer things out. Indeed as I have said to snr but which he has no interest in replying to (because he cannot) even if you want the UK to remain in the Single Market you can leave the European Union (the political side of it) and retain the economic close relationship with European Economic Community (EEC) membership which would see us remain in the SM. Or you can go for a looser option, and one I would prefer, of EFTA membership. Or you can go for full detatchment, maybe in the future, of pure Free Trade Agreements outside of a bloc.

There's three options open there to us which other countries independent of the EU use. All three are looser and thus more preferable than the present.