Gendered Prisons? [Win VIP]

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In the past few months, there have been increased reports of trans-gendered women committing suicide after being sent to all-male prisons. In fact, trans activists have called the government murderers for allowing them to be sent to all-male prisons, with Labour's shadow minister for women and equalities, Cat Smith, claiming that "sending women into men's prison to serve sentences would shatter even the strongest person." Whilst we are all (mostly) aware of the psychological harm of misgendering someone, I cannot understand why we have seperate prisons for male and females in the first place!

On one hand, you could argue that women are incarcerated mostly for non-violent crimes or for self-defense against abuse and thus should be in "safer, female prisons". In fact, some argue women should not be in prison at all! However, obviously the problem here is that people assume women are victims and incapable of violence! Why then should women have "safer" spaces when there are many men also unfairly incarcerated?

As usual, I will provide some arguments for and against the debate!

ARGUMENTS FOR GENDERED PRISONS
- Gendered prisons may help tackle the different reasons for men and women's incarceration.
- Women may experience violence/sexism from males in an all-male prison. Indeed, one trans-gendered woman sent to an all-male prison was singled out due to dressing as a female and in turn became suicidal.
- Female prisons allow women easier access to their children, especially as women are more likely to be single parents than men.

ARGUMENTS AGAINST GENDERED PRISONS
-If we begin to segregate based on different circumstances, then we would have too many prisons! Is it fair to let women have safer segregated spaces when certain men, such as black men, also find themselves unfairly incarcerated?
- Simply put; women should not be treated differently to men and should suffer the consequences.
- Instead of segregating by gender and claiming all-male prisons are too harsh for women, is the solution not to change the prison system so all can do their time fairly?



The debate is now up to you! Good contributions will be rewarded with reputation throughout the thread and the member who makes the best contributions throughout the month will win the Debater of the Month award, 2 weeks VIP, as well as 250 tokens. Creating interesting member debates will also win you reputation/tokens!

This debate will close on the 7th of January (2016!!) so get your views in :)



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[-:Undertaker:-]

I don't think there's much of an argument on the 'trans' side as no matter what you think of that issue (I still regard you as a male as does your DNA even if you wish to wear a frilly dress, paint your nails pink and have surgery) in prison there's a system among many inmates of straight hetrosexual males who are seen as 'weak' being turned into rape fodder and made to dress as women. And that's not even their choice. Then again maybe that applies more to American prisons although I know in our prisons rape is also widespread. I forget the US show that was centred on that wasn't it called Oz or something? Was enlightening.

The idea of mixing the genders together though in prison is a recipe for disaster as you'd literally be sending the women inmates into there as rape fodder for the men.

[abc]

I cannot understand why we have seperate prisons for male and females in the first place!

In fact, some argue women should not be in prison at all! However, obviously the problem here is that people assume women are victims and incapable of violence! Why then should women have "safer" spaces when there are many men also unfairly incarcerated?

a) Women scream for gender equality, so why do they suddenly want a separate prison?
b) Which moron suggested women should not be in prison at all?! Like whatttt? No one seen the crazy woman and her husband kill people in California?

Problem with mixing males and females is obviously rape. I say have them both in same prison but have a "male section" and a "female section". Reduces costs. In regards to Transgender, it should be determined with common sense if the person should be in a male or female prison.

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i think it's because the majority of women who ARE incarcerated are done so for non-violent crimes but doesn't really explain why non-violent women should be given special treatment when there are plenty non-violent men in jails but suffering the consequences. people have been proposing that community work would be more effective for women but i don't see why it wouldn't be for men? there's just an assumption that women are weak and not responsible for the crimes they commit.

as for who suggested it, there's been a few (in fact i think there's actually a movement about it in the UK) but one article i found Jan 2015: http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/women-prison-it-equality-treat-female-offenders-differently-men-1485740 where Simon Hughes basically gives excuses to women and says they shouldn't go to prison because they can't handle prison and they're probably there because they've been abused etcetc... ignoring the amount of men who are also there due to abuse and social disadvantages.

we keep talking rape for an excuse not to put women in prison with men but does that mean it's okay for the non-violent males to be placed in an area that's also dangerous to them in regards to violence and rape?

[abc]

i think it's because the majority of women who ARE incarcerated are done so for non-violent crimes but doesn't really explain why non-violent women should be given special treatment when there are plenty non-violent men in jails but suffering the consequences. people have been proposing that community work would be more effective for women but i don't see why it wouldn't be for men? there's just an assumption that women are weak and not responsible for the crimes they commit.

as for who suggested it, there's been a few (in fact i think there's actually a movement about it in the UK) but one article i found Jan 2015: http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/women-prison-it-equality-treat-female-offenders-differently-men-1485740 where Simon Hughes basically gives excuses to women and says they shouldn't go to prison because they can't handle prison and they're probably there because they've been abused etcetc... ignoring the amount of men who are also there due to abuse and social disadvantages.

we keep talking rape for an excuse not to put women in prison with men but does that mean it's okay for the non-violent males to be placed in an area that's also dangerous to them in regards to violence and rape?

Thats the thing, by suggesting women should get a special treatment or are a "special case" is discriminatory. This country stands against discrimination yet the former Justice Minister (a lunatic Lib Dem) is promoting it?

In regards to rape, it is very difficult to eliminate it completely in Prisons. However by putting women in a different part of the prison, it reduces the risk.

[!:random!:!]

Ok so first of all I think having separate prisons are good. I think if we threw everyone in together it would be a terrible idea, lets say a female who is a murderer and a male who is a paedophile find some way round the system and have sexual intercourse. The woman is now pregnant but we know she won't be allowed to bring that child up due to her prison record, social services and of course the length of the sentence. This situation could cause uproar and even mental health issues for the individual's involved. Say that child went to live with a family member and later found out her/his parents were in prison because of there convictions, how would the child then feel?
This could cause the child to have issues in later life and could even start stress in the family house.

Now in a different situation, Rape. So lets presume if prisons were mixed of men and women , the rape count would go up. That is my presumption however am not saying it definitely will. Again this abuse can cause mental illnesses and emotional harm to both men and women. It could also lead on to pregnancy which would then follow the course above. Abortion it available in prisons but can take up to 2/3 months to happen - this I have heard from a tutor, again not entirely sure if true or not. Putting women and men in separate prisons does reduce the risk however not entirely as we do know rumours of what happens in prison e.g. cold showers, soap baths. so on and so forth.

As for discrimination it is always going to be a problem. Unfortunately even today we can't escape prejudice and it is a really a sad story. growing up I've never understood why they can be hate towards someone's skin being a different colour to your own, if I was blue would I be discriminated for looking like a smurf? I witnessed a case of discrimination towards myself last week (first time ever for my skin colour) I was with my friend who does happen to be coloured and is Muslim. Two of her friends were on about a girl they had seen wearing shorts in which one of her friends replied "was she white" when she got the answer yes she simply said " well am not surprised then all white people are weird". I was so shocked I just got up and walked away. I've never been discriminated for my colour of skin but now I have and I know how it feels just the once so imagine if it was on a daily basis. Discrimination really does depend on that one persons opinions (in my opinion) if they choose it is wrong to be another colour to them then it is very hard to change there opinion. So if that is a problem in the prison, I would promote team bonding activities. You can't just separate people into different sections due to discrimination its only going to welcome more discrimination and gangs will probably build.

In my opinion mixing prisons will only cause more problems than the country needs. however I do understand it will cost less and save money however is that all worth it to the problems we could face?

[dbgtz]

As far as trans people are concerned, I pretty much agree with undertaker. Regardless of what they do, they will always be their original sex and should be treated as such when it comes to things like this. However, for mixing men and women, as much as feminists beg for "equality", they know this isn't a good idea. There are fundamental differences between men and women that can't be addressed and I wish people would realise this applies to more than just prison (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zb_WYGtZ7K4). Lowering standards to be PC is a bad idea.


a) Women scream for gender equality, so why do they suddenly want a separate prison?
b) Which moron suggested women should not be in prison at all?! Like whatttt? No one seen the crazy woman and her husband kill people in California?

Problem with mixing males and females is obviously rape. I say have them both in same prison but have a "male section" and a "female section". Reduces costs. In regards to Transgender, it should be determined with common sense if the person should be in a male or female prison.

A loud minority of feminists just relay the blame to the patriarchy for women's actions, therefore absolving them of blame.


Ok so first of all I think having separate prisons are good. I think if we threw everyone in together it would be a terrible idea, lets say a female who is a murderer and a male who is a paedophile find some way round the system and have sexual intercourse. The woman is now pregnant but we know she won't be allowed to bring that child up due to her prison record, social services and of course the length of the sentence. This situation could cause uproar and even mental health issues for the individual's involved. Say that child went to live with a family member and later found out her/his parents were in prison because of there convictions, how would the child then feel?
This could cause the child to have issues in later life and could even start stress in the family house.

The paedophile will probably be beaten to death before they get the chance. Anyway, I don't really see this as the biggest issue since it's possible for them to just be sent to prison after giving birth etc. Can't control everything.


As for discrimination it is always going to be a problem. Unfortunately even today we can't escape prejudice and it is a really a sad story. growing up I've never understood why they can be hate towards someone's skin being a different colour to your own, if I was blue would I be discriminated for looking like a smurf? I witnessed a case of discrimination towards myself last week (first time ever for my skin colour) I was with my friend who does happen to be coloured and is Muslim. Two of her friends were on about a girl they had seen wearing shorts in which one of her friends replied "was she white" when she got the answer yes she simply said " well am not surprised then all white people are weird". I was so shocked I just got up and walked away. I've never been discriminated for my colour of skin but now I have and I know how it feels just the once so imagine if it was on a daily basis. Discrimination really does depend on that one persons opinions (in my opinion) if they choose it is wrong to be another colour to them then it is very hard to change there opinion. So if that is a problem in the prison, I would promote team bonding activities. You can't just separate people into different sections due to discrimination its only going to welcome more discrimination and gangs will probably build.

Are you sure that person wasn't joking? You always see jokes about how "white people" or "black people" or whatever people are really bad or good at something.

[!:random!:!]

As far as trans people are concerned, I pretty much agree with undertaker. Regardless of what they do, they will always be their original sex and should be treated as such when it comes to things like this. However, for mixing men and women, as much as feminists beg for "equality", they know this isn't a good idea. There are fundamental differences between men and women that can't be addressed and I wish people would realise this applies to more than just prison (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zb_WYGtZ7K4). Lowering standards to be PC is a bad idea.



A loud minority of feminists just relay the blame to the patriarchy for women's actions, therefore absolving them of blame.



The paedophile will probably be beaten to death before they get the chance. Anyway, I don't really see this as the biggest issue since it's possible for them to just be sent to prison after giving birth etc. Can't control everything.



Are you sure that person wasn't joking? You always see jokes about how "white people" or "black people" or whatever people are really bad or good at something.

No she wasn't cause after when she realised she was like oh I didn't mean to say that, when I left she said something elsewhich mentioned me and my colour.

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