Debates Leader

[buttons]

What do you all think of having a debates leader? I know in the past people have thought of it as pointless but I don't see the harm in it, especially as it's a way for people to earn rewards! However, despite these rewards, people never seem to want to post, although they will read the thread :(.

So I'm wondering if a) people aren't interested in debating full stop, b) official debates are boring, c) the rewards aren't good enough d) something else?

Do you guys think the position is pointless? I have people coming to me with ideas for debates without realising they can make it themselves!


Im just curious if there's a way I can get more people to engage in my debates? Or are people just never going to be interested? :P

ty for your views :)

[Alysha]

I tend to read them and keep up with them, but I never tend to post because it always turns to personal attacks on other members on this forum. They always go from debate, to a repetitive argument.
I don't think the debates are boring as such, it's just that they are few a far between, sometimes it might be better to throw a lighthearted on into the mix too.

[Joe]

I'm like Alysha - I follow them and always read them, but I just don't think I'm interested enough or passionate about the subjects that are being posted for me to bother about writing paragraph upon paragraph only to be insulted. I think there's certain people are love debating and, credit to them, they are either very passionate about a lot of things or have the ability to switch it on when they see the debate come up - just something I could never do myself.

If I do give you any improvements that you could make, I think better visibility across the forum as well as possibly on site to get more people involved, making the topics more lighthearted so everyone can join in (rather than just the debates gang as it seems to be) and maybe a penalty if you do see the debate turning on people, like into attacks. I think you should be able to step in and either remove them from it or penalise them!

[buttons]

I haven't seen people insulting each other since I took over from dan :P I know it's still happening in current affairs but I don't have power/permissions to do anything there lol. All the debates I think of are ones that I'm personally interested in but I will definitely think of some light hearted ones! If you ever do, feel free to post them yourself or suggest to me :)

Oh for visibility, I try to get involved with Habbox competitions/events (such as HXSS), I probably could have done more in the Christmas period though but when people don't participate I obviously lose motivation to do anything.

[-:Undertaker:-]

I secured permission for the role to be expanded when I was in post that I assume still stands... you're allowed to hand awards out for any debates or generally good discussions by users across the forum and not just in Debates or Current Affairs. I never saw why just because a good post or series of good posts by a forum member wasn't in the Debates Forum itself that the Debates Leader couldn't have handed out rewards for them.

There's been over the years numerous good debates by @Kardan (http://www.habboxforum.com/member.php?u=3428); @FlyingJesus (http://www.habboxforum.com/member.php?u=24753); @snr (http://www.habboxforum.com/member.php?u=125189); @conservative; @Chippiewill (http://www.habboxforum.com/member.php?u=40007); @The Don (http://www.habboxforum.com/member.php?u=9475); and others which could be awarded for general posting awards. For example Chippiewill and conservative always tend (I think) to debate on a conservative manner and push ideas like that whereas the likes of The Don and Kardan have tended to be more radical and there's an award for that too.

As for people complaining about tone, I think many are confusing passion/real disagreement for nastiness. We have both, but more passionate on this forum. The moderators address any issues in threads in a pretty fair-handed way and personally I'd rather see people clash than everyone agree followed by smileys and +reps.

[Inseriousity.]

Lol some of the debates can get intense so I can see why people who don't feel confident enough to debate an issue with someone who's going to twist their words (dan) or sarcastically attack them (tom) or use a ton of stats (akeem) or write a huge essay (gommeinc lol well when he was around) etc don't really take part in them. Debates don't really feel like a place for people who don't feel passionate about something and unfortunately I don't think that's something you'll be able to ever change (similar things happen in real life. Everyone will remember the classroom where it's a small handful of people who contribute the most and some don't speak at all). I think it's human nature.

Whether that means the Debates Leader position is pointless, well that's up for debate, I'm not that passionate about it either way :P
I will say the reason I don't post that much anymore in the debates is that I've not been playing too much attention to things. I did take part in the eugenics debate and I liked the role of devil's advocate you played in that in trying to get more than a "one-reply-then-im-outta-here." That sort of thing would encourage a conversation to develop so that's good. I'll assume you have continued that.

[Lewis]

I occasionally post if it's a debate that interests me and others seem to be posting. If there's a lot of people in the debate with the same opinion and no one with my opinion, I'd probably rather not get attacked by 10 people at once!

Debates can get really irritating and angering for me personally, so I do try to avoid going into too much depth if I post. Plus I'm not too good at debating anyway.

Although if I am very passionate about something and stupidly post about it, it could end up in 10 page debate with Akeam again - which I'd rather avoid! :P

[abc]

What do you all think of having a debates leader?

Don't we already have one - YOU?

[MKR&*42]

Whether that means the Debates Leader position is pointless, well that's up for debate, I'm not that passionate about it either way :P

This is genuinely the worst pun you've ever made Michael, accidental or not :P
--
Woops OT: I don't really ever post in debates enough to comment on this, but in the past it's certainly been a case where things end up very heated between a few people and the line between passionate debating/argumentative attitude is a thin one. However the debate topics themselves don't seem that bad and are at least relevant to current situations e.g. Gendered Prisons.

[Empired]

I would debate for fun and being attacked for daring to share my own opinion is not fun, quite simply. Plus this is gonna sound stupid and sorry but I hate posting in there because I remember always just being met with users posting millions of statistics which can be twisted to support literally any opinion depending on how you look at them and then just repeatedly being told "look at the stats look at the stats look at the stats you can't argue with the stats". To me that's just not debating. And there's no prize worth bothering with that.

I know this is only speculation but I wonder if debating on HabboxForum isn't fun because there's too few of us? Of course it gets personal because everyone knows everyone and we've all formed prejudices that we're not prepared to reconsider. I don't know how that could possibly be tackled though as "get more users" is such a cop-out answer to so many feedback threads.

I don't think the position of Debates Leader is pointless but I do think it's not being used very well at the moment. As I said above I don't think prizes are worth all the personal attacks that are doled out to everyone by everyone, but I was wondering if a Debates Leader could somehow make people feel more involved. Lewis mentioned how he wouldn't want to post if he was the only one holding a different opinion and I do think it should be the job of the Debates Leader to spark off a different (maybe slightly controversial) perspective. I don't know I could be completely wrong though lol sorry :(

[buttons]

it's not just habboxforum where people are too afraid to say their opinion that is different from everyone else's... :P I don't think that's something I can change, you can only do it for yourself!! I always notice (not just in debates) but there can be a thread where everyone agrees, then someone disagrees and that opens the 'debate/argument' up for everyone else who disagrees but didnt want to say so! it's the whole silent majority/outspoken minority etc. but yeah I'm at a loss at what to do because the debate forum/current affairs has the stereotype of being politically heated but unfortunately many debates ARE political!

but yeah I'll have a think of what I can do/post

[Empired]

it's not just habboxforum where people are too afraid to say their opinion that is different from everyone else's... :P I don't think that's something I can change, you can only do it for yourself!! I always notice (not just in debates) but there can be a thread where everyone agrees, then someone disagrees and that opens the 'debate/argument' up for everyone else who disagrees but didnt want to say so! it's the whole silent majority/outspoken minority etc. but yeah I'm at a loss at what to do because the debate forum/current affairs has the stereotype of being politically heated but unfortunately many debates ARE political!

but yeah I'll have a think of what I can do/post

I don't know, I'm a member of a few other forums and I post in the debates section of one of them. There are enough members in there for nothing to be too personal because you generally don't know enough about enough people :P But I know the rules there are much much stricter as well and moderators are active throughout most (if not all) threads so I guess people are more closely monitored as well.

[James]

they always just turn into undertaker complaining about the eu and arguing with anyone who tries saying anything, even if they agree with him.

[buttons]

dan hasn't been leader since July n there has been no debates on the eu since, current affairs n debates are diff things. dan uv ruined debates leader forever :'(

[James]

dan hasn't been leader since July n there has been no debates on the eu since, current affairs n debates are diff things. dan uv ruined debates leader forever :'(
there's been no debates about it no, but he still finds a way to post about it

"should abortion be legal?" -> yes because ukip said so and nobody else can have an opinion or i will moan at you for voicing it

[-:Undertaker:-]

@buttons (http://www.habboxforum.com/member.php?u=42203); the fact is a few of them like the guy below have an axe to grind with me personally and confuse what I post on a personal level in Current Affairs with the Official Debates. He's incapable of even realising I haven't been Debates Leader since the summer so there's really no point me even pointing out to him that the debates I did avoided traditional subjects like the EU, abortion and the death penalty.

The EU hasn't featured in many if any debates for ages because it isn't a popular topic.


they always just turn into undertaker complaining about the eu and arguing with anyone who tries saying anything, even if they agree with him.

This is why Debates Leader/debates in general has such a hard time because people like this guy complain when people debate them. As I think @Lewis (http://www.habboxforum.com/member.php?u=70869); alluded to earlier, a lot of people - seemingly like Jam - don't like being challenged in debates. That's fine - but don't complain about it because that's kinda the point of debates.

I rarely ever -rep but you've just earnt one for trying to score personal points against me pal.


there's been no debates about it no, but he still finds a way to post about it

prove it.

[James]

@buttons (http://www.habboxforum.com/member.php?u=42203); the fact is a few of them like the guy below have an axe to grind with me personally and confuse what I post on a personal level in Current Affairs with the Official Debates. He's incapable of even realising I haven't been Debates Leader since the summer so there's really no point me even pointing out to him that the debates I did avoided traditional subjects like the EU, abortion and the death penalty.

The EU hasn't featured in many if any debates for ages because it isn't a popular topic.



This is why Debates Leader/debates in general has such a hard time because people like this guy complain when people debate them. As I think @Lewis (http://www.habboxforum.com/member.php?u=70869); alluded to earlier, a lot of people - seemingly like Jam - don't like being challenged in debates. That's fine - but don't complain about it because that's kinda the point of debates.

I rarely ever -rep but you've just earnt one for trying to score personal points against me pal.
How can i be challenged if i don't even post? :S

[-:Undertaker:-]

How can i be challenged if i don't even post? :S

How can I post about the EU/Ukip in abortion threads when I rarely post in Debate topics?

Oh wait yeah you made that up! :rolleyes:

[James]

How can I post about the EU in abortion threads when I rarely post in Debate topics?

Oh wait yeah you made that up!
http://i.imgur.com/jZkfBLm.png
http://i.imgur.com/RQnCta4.png

[-:Undertaker:-]

Wow @Jam (http://www.habboxforum.com/member.php?u=93499); has discovered that in nearly an entire decade on HabboxForum I have posted a few hundred times in Debates. Inspector Morse watch out!

No sweetheart you're not getting off the hook like that, go to the threads Jen has posted since the summer as Debates Leader and find where I have just brought the EU into it out of the blue. Back up your claims or shut up.

[James]

Wow @Jam (http://www.habboxforum.com/member.php?u=93499); has discovered that in nearly an entire decade on HabboxForum I have posted a few hundred times in Debates. Inspector Morse watch out!

No sweetheart, go to the threads Jen has posted since the summer and find where I have just brought the EU into it out of the blue. Back up your claims or shut up.
It seems someone doesn't like to be challenged :rolleyes:

[-:Undertaker:-]

Unsurprisingly he can't find an example where I have brought up the EU in an abortion topic or something similar. He's an empty vessel.


It seems someone doesn't like to be challenged :rolleyes:

I do like being challenged over topics. I also like being challenged by people like you who have an axe to grind so I can make you look ridiculous.

You can't back up a word you've thrown at me so thank you for giving me that pleasure. And a Happy New Year to you.

[James]

Unsurprisingly he can't find an example where I have brought up the EU in an abortion topic or something similar. He's an empty vessel.



I do like being challenged over topics. I also like being challenged by people like you who have an axe to grind so I can make you look ridiculous.

You can't back up a word you've thrown at me so thank you for giving me that pleasure. And a Happy New Year to you.
Granted, I cannot find an example of a debate where you changed the topic into that, but looking back through your debates you made as debates leader, it's easy to see that 99% of them are eu/government/ukip/politics related. Also granted, politics are the most common type of debates, but when it comes down to it, there are plenty of other topics.

[-:Undertaker:-]

Granted, I cannot find an example of a debate where you changed the topic into that, but looking back through your debates you made as debates leader, it's easy to see that 99% of them are eu/government/ukip/politics related. Also granted, politics are the most common type of debates, but when it comes down to it, there are plenty of other topics.

I just saw you looking in the Debates forum and if this were true wouldn't you copy and paste it to make me look like a fool?

Here's the topics I posted in my 900 odd days as Debates Leader. Let's let everybody else decide if I posted 99% of my Debates about the EU & Ukip.

You owe me an apology.

http://www.ezimba.com/work/151228C/ezimba16935167303500.png

http://www.ezimba.com/work/151228C/ezimba16935153409300.png

http://www.ezimba.com/work/151228C/ezimba16935113305000.png

http://www.ezimba.com/work/151228C/ezimba16935116402900.png

Ironically the only EU-related thread there since 2013 (Romania and Bulgaria immigration) I can see was one of the most popular debates.

[buttons]

Granted, I cannot find an example of a debate where you changed the topic into that, but looking back through your debates you made as debates leader, it's easy to see that 99% of them are eu/government/ukip/politics related. Also granted, politics are the most common type of debates, but when it comes down to it, there are plenty of other topics.
But I'm not asking about dans time as debates leader, am asking about my own time and my own debates (none of which dan has turned into ukip or eu - infact he's only posted in 2 of mine..). Can you give me any examples of non-political debates I could do? I've never spoken about political parties or the EU in my debates, ive tried to do relevant issues today but wondering what else I can do? My thread ain't to criticise dan, who isn't even the leader anymore, but for me to make it better?

[Matt]

I find it really odd how this thread has turned into a thread about Dan :S Not to try and be offensive towards Dan, but he's in the past now. Just like every other person on the forum he has every right to showcase his opinions and it's only been on rare occasions that a particular threads get out of hand (so much so that moderation is involved).

I'm going to take a Forum perspective on this and say I don't think enough tools are at the disposal of Debates Leader. I think a number of things could be put in place to help promote them. Requesting things like banners would be quite handy in terms of promotion (also used in Signatures) and maybe a thread stickied somewhere (Announcements or CNB) that is frequently updated.

At the start of every month a brief notice could be made publicizing the new debates (and link to the thread that's posted by you, Jen). Access to the graphics forum would solve a few of these so if that's something you're interested in Jen, I'd be more than happy to get that done for you. I've always been unsure as to the amount of things available to Debates Leader so I might make it so that I become more familiar and involved. Definitely anything that needs doing forum-wise I'm only a PM away.

In terms of members making debates, I'm not too sure what i'd suggest as a solution - maybe prizes/awards etc? I'll have a think.

[Lewis]

Dan, I don't if you were saying that just to Jam or me too, but I wasn't complaining. Just giving my opinion and views as to why I don't post in debates more so.

You are quite right though, I don't like being challenged as I don't always feel comfortable giving my opinions - especially if they contrast with the majority of habbox or the debates thread in general.

That isn't a specific issue with the current debates leader though, more just a lack of confidence and willingness from myself :P. Perhaps more could be done to encourage people to post in debates, I don't really know, but that's not what I was trying to say in my original post anyway.

---

And Jam, I also don't understand why you're bringing undertaker up constantly. This thread isn't specifically about him, stop making it about him? Perhaps there's certain points that can be related to him since he was once debates leader, but not everything - buttons is debates leader now lol...

[Samantha]

I haven't read all the replies, so if this has been mentioned I apologise.

I think one of the reasons debates don't generate many replies anymore is because there isn't enough official ones that cater for more than a few people. I would suggest posting a few that cover a wider range of topics than just one a month as that may only interest a few people! Even if say you post one at the start of the month and one in the middle that way it's ongoing instead of it appearing robotic that on this date there's a new debate, this date you post debater of the month etc.

I think there should be more incentive for those giving ideas or actually posting debates - if there are some already these really need to be advertised more as I don't really know about them! I haven't posted in debates much for a while, and if I do it's only an occasional reply if I feel I can say something.

[buttons]

there's no set limit for debates, although I say *this debate closes 1 month from now* it doesn't mean more can't be posted within that date! it's just that I don't want to post all my debates at once then have none left for the next month. it's surprisingly difficult to find topics to talk about - everything has either already been done, has been posted a million times or something no one knows anything about. so I try to keep it relevant to what's been happening lately but people are still not interested. There's nothing stopping anyone posting their own debates, everyone keeps saying do non-political ones or more lighthearted ones but can't give examples and don't post anything themselves? It's ok saying that but no one is actually giving me any ideas.

maybe comps/events can do something with me to give more of an incentive? or someone with habbo knowledge give me debates ideas

[-:Undertaker:-]

Lewis; oh no it was just to Jam and not youself, was just using your example xx

[scottish]

first debate that pops into my mind is schools

should they continue to have the 9 months or w/e it is currently or all year (i.e. not like 8 weeks off in summer, then another 6 or whatever at christmas)?

[Kyle]

basing debates on loosely formed and poorly informed opinions is the reason many people don't participate in debates here and why when they do they don't have any traction. If somebody is afraid to present their contrary point then it just means that they don't have any confidence in it. If a debate does go in the direction of EU membership it can e easily steered back on track if other points are made well enough. The 'this house believes...' Style of debate that encourages different points of view just doesn't exist here and that's a shame. There's only so many times I can read the same thing regurgitated by fourteen different members before I fall asleep.

I like your debates, I just find the ideas presented by the users in them boring. Try to encourage critical and original thinking a little more. As for people talking about personal attacks, you're all idiots. Personal attacks don't happen in debates unless it's a last resort or a diversion, pick up on that and drive your point home.

[abc]

new debate idea: should women drivers be banned from UK roads