View Full Version : Decline in quality of the Moderation decisions
-:Undertaker:-
16-02-2016, 01:08 PM
Hello.
I have defended the Moderation Department quite often ever since the days of ---MAD--- passed as I feel on the whole, despite everyone getting the one or two PMs they think are a bit silly, it has been relaxed and pretty fair and balanced. I also understand it is a tough job given different interpretations of rules and pressure from people to act on one side of an argument/issue and pressure not to act on another. I get all that.
But you know, lately since perhaps the summer after thankfully the ridiculous moderation decision over a flag was reversed I have had a series of PMs for quite silly reasons and they seem to be increasing. I don't know whether moderators are out to get the highest number of warnings or infractions they can that week or whether they've been instructed/led to be more tough with the rules - I do not know. But what I do know is that I am now receiving PMs and warnings for the most absurd of posts ever. The examples are below.
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Example 1
My exchange to Khloe; over using facial cream
LAB Series face scrub, moisturiser and eye cream. Love them!
gayyyyyyyy
Apparently this breaks the rule of Respecting other Forum Members. Really!?!? Is this a 11+ forum or is it for primary school ages?
Example 2
My exchanges to abc; over the Independent newspaper thread
The attitude stinks. Drop it.
You may think of yourself as cleverer than everybody else for reading it but the reality is you are just out of touch, not clever.
No smart arse, voting is a tribal act for most of the public.
I am told the above comments, directed at abc; , are aimed to get him to retaliate. Well of course they are. That's kinda the point in heated debate. All those who debate with me in that forum know that what happens in the debate stays in the debate, and I do not see why comments aimed at getting people to retaliate (aka post back which is what the forum is FOR) are now being moderated.
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Other example
I also heard from my good friend Evanora; that she was apparently moderated for something like a racist post when all she did was post "the indian one" in the "Your least favourite YouTuber" thread. How on earth can anybody by any stretch of the imagination find racism in this?
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Basically the point in this thread is to ask you all whether you find comments such as....
"gayyyyy"
"the indian one"
"The attitude stinks"
...worthy of moderation?
Because I don't. And why post a thread about it? Because it needs to be nipped in the bud now and some common sense restored.
GoldenMerc
16-02-2016, 01:16 PM
Moderation has been rubbish for years, same with the posting. It's on a decline as is Habbo who provides the users
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David
16-02-2016, 01:17 PM
yes i got a post warning for forgetting to use a spoiler
sort it out mdport
-:Undertaker:-
16-02-2016, 01:41 PM
All i'm asking for from moderation is some common sense to be deployed. In giving warnings and sending private messages, the thought behind moderation shouldn't be "what can we catch them out for?" which leads to very liberal interpretation of what things mean but rather a healthy scepticism when it comes to any reports, claims of offensive posts and so on. In other words, warnings etc shouldn't be handed out unless it is absolutely 100% clear it is deserving, ie I tell you all to fuck off.
Samantha
16-02-2016, 02:24 PM
Example 1 - I don't think this needs to be brought up again as you didn't receive a warning nor a usernote for it, I'm pretty sure lawrawrrr; sent you a message and informed you that it wasn't a warning or anything it's just to be a bit more cautious. However, you did make another comment that could be seen as homophobic in a more recent thread, but it was decided that it wouldn't be moderated as it was seen that it wasn't used with malicious intent but more in jest. The other one just seemed out of context at the time!
The second example I can't really comment on as I didn't know it had been moderated, perhaps it just seemed too heated for the current affairs forum.
lawrawrrr
16-02-2016, 02:30 PM
The first and last examples weren't warnings, as you are WELL aware (in your case). Sam has pretty much summed it up perfectly so I have nothing to add to that. We asked Evanora to clarify her post in the thread because it could easily have been interpreted as her saying that Indian you tubers annoy her for no other reason than being Indian - same with your post, can be interpreted in an offensive manner which is why they were just messaged about rather than user noted.
All decisions are discussed between the entire moderation department and myself and everyone is welcome to appeal. But as you'll find, they won't be reversed as myself or Matt are involved in said warning process.
Funnily enough for the middle one, calling someone a smart arse and your rude tone is enough to warrant a warning. It's just as easy to say "I don't really like the attitude in your post and you are misreading this paragraph" rather than "you're not clever, smart arse" (paraphrasing, of course).
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-:Undertaker:-
16-02-2016, 02:48 PM
I don't think this needs to be brought up again as you didn't receive a warning nor a usernote for it
I have no idea what they are all I know is I am being hounded with private messages over trivial comments.
it could easily have been interpreted as her saying that Indian you tubers annoy her for no other reason than being Indian - same with your post, can be interpreted in an offensive manner which is why they were just messaged about rather than user noted.
Point being the word could.
Anyone could find offence in anything but whether it actually deserves a warning/infraction/caution/whatever it is called is another matter.
Moderation need to do a lot less "interpreting" (leave that to the artists) and some proper moderation.
Funnily enough for the middle one, calling someone a smart arse and your rude tone is enough to warrant a warning. It's just as easy to say "I don't really like the attitude in your post and you are misreading this paragraph" rather than "you're not clever, smart arse" (paraphrasing, of course).
how ridiculous, just sounds like ass kissing.
maybe general management/moderation should just take over posting on the forum as they seem to know how the rest of us should all argue/post/have a laugh.
lawrawrrr
16-02-2016, 04:05 PM
If something could be interpreted as offensive, it is going to be removed because if a new member sees that they're going to think "this isn't a nice place to be" and leave. Things are reported all the time that we decide not to follow up on because of common sense or interpretation but when things cross the line that's when we give people a chance to explain.
Once again though, you haven't had a warning, infraction, caution or even a USERNOTE over the interpreted comments because, as I explained to you, they probably weren't intended in the potentially offensive manner that was reported to us. Calling someone a smart arse, directly after a heated debate can't really be interpreted any other way than rude though.
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Inseriousity.
16-02-2016, 05:34 PM
"feel free to appeal but don't bother cos it's not gonna change." haha. I suppose there are so few posts these days that it's not that difficult for the general manager to be involved with discussions about every rule break. That system sounds like some serious micromanagement though!
Charlie has sent me a PM or two about some of my posts more recently but it's a petty thing to get so worked up about and I just don't care anymore.
Some things are genuinely offensive, then other things are just like moderators trying to promote *+*+ safe spaces *+*+* which kinda gets my back up a bit but whatever.
Those decisions you quoted dan, are downright terribl, but you shouldn't have to punish for either of those things. moderation around here is probably taking a nose dive because people take it as seriously as the police do their national statistics, so they try hard to look for mishaps in people when they'd do the same themselves but not get punished for it.
that said, people just gotta chill the fuck out. its a habbo forum, moderators are as insignificant as the platform they police, so i beg of people to get a reality check, check your privelige (LOL?) and stop telling people off for shit they'll probably be saying in a years time when they've left the mod team to be super edgy.
personally i think the department went downhill as soon as i left
lawrawrrr
16-02-2016, 06:22 PM
"feel free to appeal but don't bother cos it's not gonna change." haha. I suppose there are so few posts these days that it's not that difficult for the general manager to be involved with discussions about every rule break. That system sounds like some serious micromanagement though!
Charlie has sent me a PM or two about some of my posts more recently but it's a petty thing to get so worked up about and I just don't care anymore.
Alicia* and Cerys - as fairly new moderators - weren't as confident as they are now but but with some more controversial posts they do still ask in the moderator staff chat and if I'm online I'll reply, as do the other mods, Sam and Matt! Being a mod is quite daunting for some people so I understand why they'd want their decisions verified so they don't make the wrong one and receive a horrible PM back as we have had in the past. I guess yeah that's why things don't get reversed very often but people are more than willing to make their case and someone will explain WHY at least.
Mods don't have to ask though and are absolutely trusted to do the job but if they want they can, it's not micromanagement :)
xxMATTGxx
16-02-2016, 06:26 PM
Why does this thread remind me of the following video? No offense aimed at you Dan ;)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sOWWa6Ue5oc
Inseriousity.
16-02-2016, 06:29 PM
Your initial wording of posts is as bad as mine lol.
"All decisions are discussed between the entire moderation department and myself and everyone is welcome to appeal. But as you'll find, they won't be reversed as myself or Matt are involved in said warning process."
is the total opposite of helping out when mods ask for it, which I can understand and definitely is not micromanagement :)
lawrawrrr
16-02-2016, 06:35 PM
Your initial wording of posts is as bad as mine lol.
"All decisions are discussed between the entire moderation department and myself and everyone is welcome to appeal. But as you'll find, they won't be reversed as myself or Matt are involved in said warning process."
is the total opposite of helping out when mods ask for it, which I can understand and definitely is not micromanagement :)
you are absolutely right there! this is what happens when I'm replying to feedback while doing a horrible page at work LOL! the second bit is definitely right, it's not all decisions, I think I meant all potentially controversial decisions!
_spirit
16-02-2016, 06:56 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k_GBJXYIfVc
Now this is stuff what mods moderate just saying!!!!
Post edited by Cerys (Forum Moderator) Please do not post offtopic/pointless
Charlie has sent me a PM or two about some of my posts more recently but it's a petty thing to get so worked up about and I just don't care anymore.
ALICIA* but same as this, even if it's just forgetting bad spoilers sometimes i'm so soz habbox x
What I don't understand was before when first spoilers were first added it wasn't such a big warning and you would only edit it and PM them reminding to add the badspoilers and you wouldn't be warned/infracted for it, although now, I don't know who changed the rule but people get warned/infracted for it. The thing I don't really understand is that you are allowed to say fuck, mother fucker just not directed at anyone but if it is in a picture it will be placed in a badspoiler and if you've repeated it then you get infracted for inappropriate language, whilst if you actually type out the words you don't get warned for it.
lawrawrrr
16-02-2016, 11:26 PM
What I don't understand was before when first spoilers were first added it wasn't such a big warning and you would only edit it and PM them reminding to add the badspoilers and you wouldn't be warned/infracted for it, although now, I don't know who changed the rule but people get warned/infracted for it. The thing I don't really understand is that you are allowed to say ****, mother ****er just not directed at anyone but if it is in a picture it will be placed in a badspoiler and if you've repeated it then you get infracted for inappropriate language, whilst if you actually type out the words you don't get warned for it.
The fuck part is because it's in the extended filter so some people will choose not to have them shown, it counts as avoiding the optional filter - if you type it out in full then it'll still be hidden for some people but images show for everyone!
With spoiler warnings i believe they're only send if there's repeat offences after reminders (which a lot of people do interpret as warnings)
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I am told the above comments, directed at @abc; , are aimed to get him to retaliate. Well of course they are. That's kinda the point in heated debate. All those who debate with me in that forum know that what happens in the debate stays in the debate, and I do not see why comments aimed at getting people to retaliate (aka post back which is what the forum is FOR) are now being moderated.
Would the Moderator who has warned Dan for this please apologise to him. This is ridiculous. If you are warning him for posting those things towards me (or anyone) then you clearly haven't read a single thread properly or in context in that section.
There is nothing wrong with what he has posted in those quotes.
today
17-02-2016, 02:55 PM
How things have changed in the past few years.
Empired
17-02-2016, 03:12 PM
How things have changed in the past few years.
I'm not sure, feedback threads have been made complaining moderation for as long as I can remember certainly :P
To be honest people have been complaining about every department for as long as I've been here - it's a shame almost all of the good stuff (unless it's a big official event) goes unnoticed or ignored but occasional mistakes or wrongdoings deserve 8+ page feedback threads. But that's just part of human nature in general I guess.
And I should say Dan's been spoken to about the two examples he brought up and I /hope/ they've been cleared up for him - or at least explained a bit more.
David
17-02-2016, 03:17 PM
it's a shame almost all of the good stuff (unless it's a big official event) goes unnoticed or ignored but occasional mistakes or wrongdoings deserve 8+ page feedback threads.
"when you do things right, people won't be sure you've done anything at all"
I'm not sure, feedback threads have been made complaining moderation for as long as I can remember certainly :P
To be honest people have been complaining about every department for as long as I've been here - it's a shame almost all of the good stuff (unless it's a big official event) goes unnoticed or ignored but occasional mistakes or wrongdoings deserve 8+ page feedback threads. But that's just part of human nature in general I guess.
And I should say Dan's been spoken to about the two examples he brought up and I /hope/ they've been cleared up for him - or at least explained a bit more.
Post a list of good stuff that's happened
I've been moderated poorly a lot but the appeals system is too long to bother using. If you can't get something sorted through a pm discussion to clarify the intent and content of a moderated post with the person that moderated it then what's the point doing it in a designated thread. Effort.
FlyingJesus
17-02-2016, 08:28 PM
Genuine warnings and infractions hardly ever happen because it has to be a certain number of repeats of the same thing in a small time frame for it to happen, there's pretty much no damage being done here
Although a majority of the points mentioned have already been commented on/addressed, i'll give my interpretation and view anyway.
Dan, what I don't think you understand is the fact you don't just break a relatively minor rule and then never break it again, you break it repeatedly. Many of your rule-breaks are similar in nature and yes they may not be seen worthy of a usernote/warning/PM/infraction on their own, but it's the continuation of those same rule breaks that see us issuing the more harsher punishments. How else would we get the message across that the rules are there for a reason.
The 'gayyyyyyyy' comment, I would personally have labelled as pointless - I highly doubt you'd be able to say there was a purpose to that post. It's a thread about beauty products and just because a male has posted, why would you then go and comment that? Like I honestly view that as crying out for a negative response. Your recent comment here (http://www.habboxforum.com/showthread.php?t=833307&p=8444450#post8444450) is exactly the same. I'm not sure if you reply like this because you're so desperate for a post count increase or what, but to me those types of replies do absolutely nothing. At the time of the modwarn issued by Alicia, she was relatively new and perhaps would've been better labeling it as pointless - you are always told you can appeal a usernote anyway.
It is actually possible to have a debate and/or comment on a current affair topic with a tone that isn't trying to provoke a negative response out of the intended user which therefore results in the thread escalating and turning into something that's not only off-topic but against rules. That is why moderation steps in. Unfortunately your good old friend Evanora is also known for making offensive posts and therefore moderators are going to pounce on posts made by that user that may be viewed as inappropriate - again this user has also accumulated warnings and infractions in the past for offensive/inappropriate comments.
The BADSPOILER warning needs revising and I agree that it should only be used if it's deserved. We would hope that by the time you've received a few PMs about putting inappropriate content in a BADSPOILER, you would be able to simply press one button around the selected content to save yourself being contacted by moderation. This will be adjusted however and is on my list of things to sort out.
The department is definitely not micromanaged - I give you my word :P
-:Undertaker:-
19-02-2016, 12:55 PM
Matt;
I'm not complaining about some recent warnings I have had regarding rule breaks over and over. That's in relation to that music thread where we post what we're listening to and Empired; kept warning me to post Spoiler tags as the video contained swearing and I kept forgetting. I'd been told a few times so that's totally fair. :)
I just don't think comments like the gay one are worthy of moderation. I understand the concern about spam, but I think sometimes posts on here should be allowed to be a bit jokey/messing around rather than full on essays or no interaction in threads. Nevertheless the post was warned for being rude.
You know what Dan, **** off. You are a **** idiot.
I just had the Habbox Co-Owner say that to me in a thread (hey I haven't a problem with it myself) but I am told off for "smart arse" and "gayyyyy". It's silly.
@Matt (http://www.habboxforum.com/member.php?u=67543);
I'm not complaining about some recent warnings I have had regarding rule breaks over and over. That's in relation to that music thread where we post what we're listening to and @Empired (http://www.habboxforum.com/member.php?u=80588); kept warning me to post Spoiler tags as the video contained swearing and I kept forgetting. I'd been told a few times so that's totally fair. :)
I just don't think comments like the gay one are worthy of moderation. I understand the concern about spam, but I think sometimes posts on here should be allowed to be a bit jokey/messing around rather than full on essays or no interaction in threads. Nevertheless the post was warned for being rude.
I just had the Habbox Co-Owner say that to me in a thread (hey I haven't a problem with it myself) but I am told off for "smart arse" and "gayyyyy". It's silly.
I had been meaning to adjust the BADSPOILER rule for quite some time and did consult with Laura a number of weeks ago (as I saw a large amount of your posts had been modwarned in that thread and you were actually the reason why I had raised it as an issue). I have since revised the way in which moderators deal with such posts and that they are to issue warnings/infractions as a last resort. They were only following the handbook though so it was up to me to change that.
Although you might've been joking I'd still say it can be viewed as slightly controversial. I always hate it when people are 'joking' when commenting as it's genuinely hard to know whether or not it's a joke in the first place and whether or not it's received by others as a joke. It was seen as homophobic and either way, I myself would've issued you with some kind of modwarn for that post.
As for Matt, myself and the moderators can't do anything about that so I won't comment on it. That's not to say I'm happy to see it's been posted.
I see it as people giving up their free time to help Habbox out. I couldn't really care about the quality, Habbox are lucky to have anyone do anything for them for free. Respect to anyone in a role here at the forum.
GoldenMerc
21-02-2016, 05:11 AM
I think its time for Habbox to scrap infractions, warnings, usernotes. Just ban spammers, as they are very biased in terms with banning, we've had major trolls on this forum for years, they wont get banned
I think its time for Habbox to scrap infractions, warnings, usernotes. Just ban spammers, as they are very biased in terms with banning, we've had major trolls on this forum for years, they wont get banned
like u
I think its time for Habbox to scrap infractions, warnings, usernotes. Just ban spammers, as they are very biased in terms with banning, we've had major trolls on this forum for years, they wont get banned
so get rid of moderation as a whole?
Trolls actually need to break specific rules in order to be punished or reprimanded. We can't just ban them simply because they're trolling as we don't have a specific rule that focuses on trolls/trolling itself.
GoldenMerc
21-02-2016, 06:19 AM
so get rid of moderation as a whole?
Trolls actually need to break specific rules in order to be punished or reprimanded. We can't just ban them simply because they're trolling as we don't have a specific rule that focuses on trolls/trolling itself.
Now you are putting words in my mouth, I said this;
I think its time for Habbox to scrap infractions, warnings, usernotes. Just ban spammers, as they are very biased in terms with banning, we've had major trolls on this forum for years, they wont get banned
Read before you reply.
I think its time for Habbox to scrap infractions, warnings, usernotes.
If we got rid of infractions, warnings and usernotes what would the moderation team be doing? Are you suggesting they just modwarn and remove content and leave it at that?
GoldenMerc
21-02-2016, 06:31 AM
If we got rid of infractions, warnings and usernotes what would the moderation team be doing? Are you suggesting they just modwarn and remove content and leave it at that?
Well they are pushed to give out infractions, warnings currently and have been doing this for years.
Infractions & warnings annoy people, specially as mods try so hard to spot something, its petty, pointless as ultimately you arent going to get banned for calling matt garner a bastard.
Habbox needs to lay off the whole mod team as you've mentioned and use a more relaxed structure
lawrawrrr
21-02-2016, 08:41 AM
Infractions and warnings annoy people?????? How about the bullying and nastiness that those warnings and infractions are given out for?
End of the day this forum has rules and moderators enforce those rules. They're not that hard to follow...
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GoldenMerc
21-02-2016, 08:46 AM
Infractions and warnings annoy people?????? How about the bullying and nastiness that those warnings and infractions are given out for?
End of the day this forum has rules and moderators enforce those rules. They're not that hard to follow...
Bullying & nastiness? Get in the real world, go tell a police officer you are being bullied by someone in the real world, tell me what they say. Absolutely nothing.
Rules are made to be broken, sending them a PM normally solves the problem, if not give them a couple of day ban then they learn. No one learns from getting warnings and infractions, being unable to get onto the site, sure they have a higher chance of learning.
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Empired
21-02-2016, 12:13 PM
I think its time for Habbox to scrap infractions, warnings, usernotes. Just ban spammers, as they are very biased in terms with banning, we've had major trolls on this forum for years, they wont get banned
I'm not sure if this is the case but I've thought for a long time that, annoyingly, those trolls skirt round the rules just enough to stay out of trouble but still troll enough to piss users off. I guess this is a problem on most forums and I wouldn't know what to suggest to fix it either :(
wow, what an insightful response empired :rolleyes:
edit: oh I thought that was the last response to this thread oh well
-:Undertaker:-
26-02-2016, 12:51 AM
we've had major trolls on this forum for years, they wont get banned
can't believe after all the years we've known eachother ya calling for me to be banned
scared about losing that top poster title by 2017 i think :P ;)
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