EgyptAir Flight MS804 from Paris to Cairo 'disappears from radar'

[xxMATTGxx]

An EgyptAir flight from Paris to Cairo has disappeared from radar, the Egyptian airline says.

It says there are 59 passengers and 10 crew members on board Flight MS804.

The aircraft was flying at 37,000ft (11,300m) when it went missing over the eastern Mediterranean. An official said the plane lost contact with radar at 02:45 Cairo time (00:45 GMT).

The company said it would issue an update "when more information becomes available".

Source: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-36309492

[Lucy]

It has been a really rough few years for the airline industry, the news isn't looking good for this one either.

[GoldenMerc]

I still don't understand how planes can go invisible? How is that possible and why didn't they scramble jets to its last known location?

[Cerys]

A satellite image of the area it went missing shows that at the time it was clear, so chances of it being storm related are slim

Really doesn't sound good :( though I reckon we'll find out much sooner rather than later as the search area seems much more clearer than that of e.g mh370


My personal suspicion is that someone or something interfered in the cockpit to make the severe course changes like that

[xxMATTGxx]

I still don't understand how planes can go invisible? How is that possible and why didn't they scramble jets to its last known location?

Very easily - Picture it like this. A plane is at a high altitude, of let's say for this example: 37,000ft. Something happens and it falls out of the sky at a very fast rate. It hits the water, what happens? It doesn't stay on top of the water and float. It will sink or even be under water straight away.

Boom, you have lost a plane.

Plus, there isn't actual realtime, 24/7 tracking on board aircraft all over the world at this moment in time. Ever since MH370 went missing there has been lots of talks and decisions being made to get a system/systems going so there is better tracking of commercial flights all around the globe. But again, no one or even Airlines are in a rush to do this.

So the last known position if that specific plane didn't have any real time tracking on board would be from Air Traffic Control and their radar screens. This would then be given to the search and rescue teams and they will look around that area and expand - Just because it went missing from a certain position on the radar, doesn't mean it'll be there when they go looking for it.

A lot of the time when these crashes happen over water, they are found fairly quickly due to debris showing up on the surface. Unlike MH370 which was a unique case but that was due to the fact the plane didn't actually just crash straight away. It carried on flying etc etc but that's a whole different story.

[Cerys]

Lots of reports of debris being found 230 miles south south east of Crete, nothing that's been 100% confirmed yet though

Will be interesting to see if it was a planned terror event, Paris and Egypt have really been stuck in the middle of it recently

[AgnesIO]

The sharp turns are not a good sign. If the plane was going down, sharp turns would be the surefire way to destroy the plane - I'd have thought you'd want to try and keep it as level as possible if you wanted to try to avoid tragedy.

Having said that, nobody has yet claimed it if it is terrorism, which is a little odd.

[RyRy]

The sharp turns are not a good sign. If the plane was going down, sharp turns would be the surefire way to destroy the plane - I'd have thought you'd want to try and keep it as level as possible if you wanted to try to avoid tragedy.

Having said that, nobody has yet claimed it if it is terrorism, which is a little odd.

That's what is making me suspicious about it being a terrorist attack. Nobody has claimed it yet, nobody has said one of their "brothers" have died against the infidels or anything like that. It makes me think that if it was a terrorist attack, the people that did it were not on the plane and snuck something into the baggage hold (or something like that). Just speculating like everybody else though, even a technical fault these days would be suspicious given how rigorously planes are checked.

[Cerys]

Egyptair vice president tells CNN they found the wreckage

[xxMATTGxx]

As the above;

Wreckage of EgyptAir flight MS804 has been found near Greek island of Karpathos, Egyptian aviation officials confirm

[j0rd]

local bloke been named as the British passenger onboard

absolutely awful!

[xxMATTGxx]

733370541218881536

733374156029501440

[Brad]

I feel like lately air travel has been sketchy.
Hopefully something has been found

[Joe]

Interesting really as it got reported that the plane had been at various different places before the flight, including Tunisia among others. Also, if it was a terrorist action it could've easily been one of the staff members. If it was one of the passengers, if they managed to sneak whatever it was through a European security check I'm worried - was always (maybe in a naive way) certain we were relatively safe from that type of attack.

[wixard]

especially charles de gaulle where security is supposed to be maximised?

interested to find out what has happened

[Chris]

Bad news, its always scary whens something like this happens. Hope they find out what happened soon.

[AgnesIO]

I feel like lately air travel has been sketchy.
Hopefully something has been found

Over 100,000 flights per day. I wouldn't worry about the safety of air travel.

[xxMATTGxx]

If you're worried about air travel, take a look at: http://flightradar24.com/ and look how many flights are the sky all over the world. It's like one of the most reliable forms of travel we have.

[wixard]

I have 4 flights in 4 days next week if I don't die none of us will x

[xxMATTGxx]

"Update - AP: Egyptian army spokesman says the wreckage of missing #EgyptAir flight #MS804 has been found 290km north of Alexandria"

Let's hope this is actual wreckage from the plane this time...

[Lucy]

Hopefully they find the flight recorders which provide the key facts and details needed to solve the case.

[FlyingJesus]

I have 4 flights in 4 days next week if I don't die none of us will x

That seems excessive are you a Saudi prince or something

Looks like the latest finds are likely to be from the plane this time, they've found "a body part, two seats and one or more items of luggage" in the area they were sweeping. Also most guesses (based on the drop and path of the plane) are that there was no bomb but direct human interference in the cockpit, terrifying stuff

[xxMATTGxx]

Right, bit of an update this evening:



On May 20th 2016 The Aviation Herald received information from three independent channels, that ACARS (Aircraft Communications Addressing and Reporting System) messages with following content were received from the aircraft:

00:26Z 3044 ANTI ICE R WINDOW
00:26Z 561200 R SLIDING WINDOW SENSOR
00:26Z 2600 SMOKE LAVATORY SMOKE
00:27Z 2600 AVIONICS SMOKE
00:28Z 561100 R FIXED WINDOW SENSOR
00:29Z 2200 AUTO FLT FCU 2 FAULT
00:29Z 2700 F/CTL SEC 3 FAULT
no further ACARS messages were received


What does the above mean? It suggests some sort of fire on board the aircraft. Caused by what? We don't know. But the above warnings would also suggest whatever it was sending messages about was at the front of the aircraft.

Terrorism? Maybe.
Failure of some sort? Maybe. Especially if the fire started in the avionics bay which is at the front of the aircraft.

Still early days, assuming the ACAR messages above are correct.

[RyRy]

Right, bit of an update this evening:



What does the above mean? It suggests some sort of fire on board the aircraft. Caused by what? We don't know. But the above warnings would also suggest whatever it was sending messages about was at the front of the aircraft.

Terrorism? Maybe.
Failure of some sort? Maybe. Especially if the fire started in the avionics bay which is at the front of the aircraft.

Still early days, assuming the ACAR messages above are correct.

If thats true, why would there be "body parts", rather than bodies that are intact? Would the impact of the crash on the water cause that to happen?

[FlyingJesus]

If thats true, why would there be "body parts", rather than bodies that are intact? Would the impact of the crash on the water cause that to happen?

Absolutely - falling from 37,000 feet isn't a healthy jump to make and when you land on water at high speed it's essentially no different to hitting concrete, so with all the twisted metal flying around a person could easily be pulverised

Usually procedure with smoke in the cockpit would be to put on the masks and make an outbound call, so strange that there was no message to anyone if that's how it happened. Could be that there was a fire/smoke elsewhere in the plane and a crew member got access to the cockpit to tell the pilots and someone else forced their way in along with them... whatever it was it must have been terrifying for everyone involved, such horror :(

[xxMATTGxx]

If thats true, why would there be "body parts", rather than bodies that are intact? Would the impact of the crash on the water cause that to happen?


Absolutely - falling from 37,000 feet isn't a healthy jump to make and when you land on water at high speed it's essentially no different to hitting concrete, so with all the twisted metal flying around a person could easily be pulverised

Usually procedure with smoke in the cockpit would be to put on the masks and make an outbound call, so strange that there was no message to anyone if that's how it happened. Could be that there was a fire/smoke elsewhere in the plane and a crew member got access to the cockpit to tell the pilots and someone else forced their way in along with them... whatever it was it must have been terrifying for everyone involved, such horror :(

If the fire was in the avionics bay then things could have started failing very fast indeed. As that's where all the computer systems are that run the aircraft.

[xxMATTGxx]

Looks like the ACARS messages that I posted last night are indeed true/correct. As the media is now reporting the following:


There were smoke alerts inside the cabin of the EgyptAir passenger plane before it crashed in the Mediterranean on Thursday, reports say.

Smoke was detected in the toilet and the aircraft's electrics, just minutes before the signal was lost, according to data published on air industry website the Aviation Herald.

French investigators have confirmed the data, AFP reported.

Source: BBC

[wixard]

So, tragic accident or planned?

what do you guys think

[xxMATTGxx]

So, tragic accident or planned?

what do you guys think

Bit early to tell, but it could be a tragic accident if the fire started due to a fault in some sort of component or wiring that caused a fire. Or on the other hand, it could have been planned to set something on fire in the toilet at that part of the plane which then spread fast to other areas.

Although, Egypt I think it was, was very fast in saying it was more likely to be terrorism than anything else. Even though they still don't have all the facts.

[xxMATTGxx]

Some images have started to be posted which seems to be from the aircraft

733964802322763777

[-:Undertaker:-]

RIP

Just what I wanna hear when I am flying this Wednesday.

[AgnesIO]

RIP

Just what I wanna hear when I am flying this Wednesday.

Once again, flying is far safer than any other transport. You'll be fine.

[Lucy]

This is more and more looking like an accident with further reports coming out today that the pilot announced to ATC he was going to make an emergency descent in an effort to put out the fire, such a shame.

[xxMATTGxx]

This is more and more looking like an accident with further reports coming out today that the pilot announced to ATC he was going to make an emergency descent in an effort to put out the fire, such a shame.

Could I ask where you got that info from it? I haven't seen it yet.

[xxMATTGxx]

This is more and more looking like an accident with further reports coming out today that the pilot announced to ATC he was going to make an emergency descent in an effort to put out the fire, such a shame.


Could I ask where you got that info from it? I haven't seen it yet.

Actually, I think I found it. Seems to be coming from one source at the moment, a French news site called M6? Hmm we'll see if that is true then. Bit strange if it is and it's only just started to come out now though...

[wixard]

That's weird as I saw something that said the plane has previously been graffitied by airport workers in Egypt something like 'this plane is doomed to go down' two years ago

bit of a weird coincidence, I'd link but I'm on my phone too lazy soz

[xxMATTGxx]

Some very misleading stories coming out from sources being the authorities but then other statements come out which change that story again.


Egypt's head of forensics denied reports that an initial examination of human remains belonging to victims aboard the EgyptAir jet that crashed in the Mediterranean pointed toward an explosion, state news agency MENA said on Tuesday.

"Everything published about this matter is completely false, and mere assumptions that did not come from the Forensics Authority," MENA quoted Hesham Abdelhamid as saying in a statement.

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-egyptair-airplane-forensics-idUSKCN0YF12H

There is also this new article questioning the current investigation:

Posted the full article from: http://www.wsj.com/articles/egyptair-crash-safety-experts-voice-fears-over-flight-804-evidence-1464036919 as it's behind a paywall but interesting indeed.



Aviation-safety experts are voicing concerns that Egypt may be mishandling debris collected from the downed EgyptAir plane, potentially compromising evidence that could help determine why the Airbus Group SE A320 crashed.

Forensic and chemical analysis of aircraft wreckage can yield vital information for investigators to glean how and why a plane went down. Such findings are particularly crucial when investigators lack access to a plane’s flight recorders, known as black boxes, which typically provide the most comprehensive information about what occurred on board on a flight.

EgyptAir Flight 804 plunged into the Mediterranean Sea on May 19 during a flight from Paris to Cairo with 66 people on board.

Crash investigators are battling not just a lack of data, but also conflicting information about the last seconds of flight. Greek officials Thursday said the plane veered off course before its demise. Ehab Azmi, chairman of the Egyptian air-navigation service, on Monday disputed that sequence, saying contact with the plane was lost abruptly while still at its cruising altitude.

The Egyptian navy has been scooping plane debris and body parts out of the water while the search continues for the main wreckage.

People in close contact with the investigation are concerned that potentially vital evidence is being compromised. Photographs released by Egypt’s military of the salvage operation show personnel handling items without wearing protective clothing, and placing them on unprotected surfaces.

This could threaten the investigation, the people said, because forensic investigators will analyze debris for chemical residue of explosives, fire or smoke. Military personnel who are in contact with weapons or ammunition can be exposed to similar chemical residue and inadvertently transfer it to any debris they handle. Lubricants and other nonmilitary items on ships can contain the same chemicals used to produce explosives and jeopardize chemical analysis of the debris.

Egypt’s military declined to comment on the recovery process, referring questions to the country’s civil aviation ministry. A spokesman for the ministry said concerns over contamination are without merit. He said the military’s recovery teams were accompanied by aviation ministry experts, whom he described as search "veterans” who comply with the standards that govern such operations.

[Lucy]

There is always a ton of controversy around these accidents, hopefully at some point we get a clear story.

[xxMATTGxx]

There is always a ton of controversy around these accidents, hopefully at some point we get a clear story.

I think that depends on the country most of the time to be honest.

[Cerys]

If anyone's still following this, they've just recovered the voice recorder

Hopefully we'll have some answers soon!


http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-36551464

[Cerys]

And now the data recorder has been found toooo

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-36557134

[xxMATTGxx]

Getting closer to finding out what really happened with this flight - Hopefully.

[Lucy]

And now the data recorder has been found toooo

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-36557134

That's good news, it will be nice for people to get an understanding of what happened on this flight, though for the families involved its devastating as it's the last piece of confirmation for them.