Trump takes poll lead as Democratic Party convention descends into chaos

[-:Undertaker:-]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/07/25/donald-trump-takes-poll-lead-on-hillary-clinton-as-democratic-na/

Trump takes poll lead as Democratic Party convention descends into chaos


http://www.myrtlebeachonline.com/news/politics-government/lkxohu/picture46344310/ALTERNATES/FREE_640/1124trumprally01


Donald Trump soared into a poll lead in the race for the White House as Hillary Clinton's plans for a "Convention of hope" descended into bitter infighting and angry protests, with some Democrats saying they would prefer to vote for her Republican rival.

Mrs Clinton is due to become the first female presidential nominee of a major US political party at the Democratic Convention which began in Philadelphia on Monday.

It was billed as a week of optimism laying out a vision of unity and progress for America, contrasting with Mr Trump's dark and foreboding descriptions of a country in crisis.

As the convention was set to open, a new poll from CNN showed Donald Trump leading Mrs Clinton by 44 per cent to 39 per cent.

Former President Bill Clinton is due to laud the abilities of his wife in a speech on Tuesday followed by a glowing endorsement from President Barack Obama on Wednesday setting out how she would secure his legacy.

But Mrs Clinton's message, captured in the slogan "Stronger Together," was immediately overshadowed by controversy and ugly scenes as thousands of angry party members loyal to Bernie Sanders, her left-wing rival for the nomination, took to the streets in 100-degree heat.

The protests were much larger than those against Mr Trump - considered one of the most divisive politicians in modern American history - at the Republican convention in Cleveland last week.

It followed a scandal in which leaked internal Democratic Party emails showed officials had plotted against Mr Sanders in favour of Mrs Clinton.

A national CNN poll showed Mr Trump received a major boost from his convention. It had Mr Trump on 44 per cent, Mrs Clinton at 39 per cent, and the Libertarian candidate Gary Johnson on nine per cent.

It was the first time since 2000 that the respected poll had showed a candidate getting a significant surge from their convention.


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Mr Trump was considered stronger on the issues of the economy and terrorism, and his lead rose significantly among white voters without college degrees to 62 per cent, over Mrs Clinton's 23 per cent.

Perhaps the starkest figure was that 68 per cent said Mrs Clinton was not trustworthy. Mrs Clinton appeared unusually affected by criticism levelled at her last week by Republicans, which she said was unfair.

She said: "There's the Hillary standard and then there's the standard for everybody else." Mrs Clinton added that cries of "Lock Her Up" made her feel "sad".

A gleeful Mr Trump said: "The Democrats are in a total meltdown. The Democratic Convention is cracking up."

It's not the slam dunk that people have been saying it is.

I am still unsure about Trump as to whether he'd act on his rhetoric (which I like) but having Clinton lose is a very tasty prospect. Also, the thought of the exploding heads if Trump were to win the US Presidency (similar to the reaction over Brexit) is also a delicious prospect.

I'd like to see Gary Johnson of the Libertarian Party make the televised debates.

Thoughts?

[wixard]

Without looking at proper figures I would make an assumption Trump will win due to the silent voter, much like Brexit.

however I saw figures indicating a Trump win will be difficult due to the electoral map and states like Florida? I dunno, not sure how the voting works but I assume it's based on the republican/democrate known majorities? Even with the 'angered' democrats stating they'll vote Trump

[FlyingJesus]

Can always trust liberals to shoot themselves squarely in the jaw with a rocket launcher to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory. What a bunch of absolute ell bends, surely they knew that their salty salty tears wouldn't bring Bernie back into the race

[Inseriousity.]

I am a strong believer that it doesn't matter too much what happens in a campaign from the super dedicated, the silent majority are wise enough to reach the right outcome*. Ed Miliband, Brexit. So far so good. This is also why I'm convinced that Corbyn will never be Prime Minister and Trump will not be President. He has strong, loyal supporters but I'm sure the majority are horrified at what he comes out with.

*This has a caveat that I should mention of only applying to national politics. Local politics is crazy and defies all logic.

[Lucy]

I have been saying all along that the way Trump will win is by getting people to vote who don't usually vote and they really can't be taken into consideration on "polls".

[Zak]

It certainly would be interesting for Trump to be president. Although I'm sure that doesn't bode well for our relationship with America. I don't think he will win though.

[-:Undertaker:-]

@Zak (https://www.habboxforum.com/member.php?u=33322); I'd say our relationship would improve not that the relationship is anything special anyway. The Republican Party traditionally has been much more pro-Britain than the Democrats have been who are backed by the Catholic lobby who funded the IRA when they were bombing our armed forces and attacking innocent people. The awful Kennedy family. Obama clearly doesn't like this country either because of his grandfather and it shows.

Even when the relationship was at its best anyway - Thatcher and Reagan - they were still hardly the great allies we like to pretend they are.

[scottish]

@Zak (https://www.habboxforum.com/member.php?u=33322); I'd say our relationship would improve not that the relationship is anything special anyway. The Republican Party traditionally has been much more pro-Britain than the Democrats have been who are backed by the Catholic lobby who funded the IRA when they were bombing our armed forces and attacking innocent people. The awful Kennedy family. Obama clearly doesn't like this country either because of his grandfather and it shows.

Even when the relationship was at its best anyway - Thatcher and Reagan - they were still hardly the great allies we like to pretend they are.

how so

[-:Undertaker:-]

how so

It's been a series of little things throughout his administration, removing the Churchill bust from the Oval office to snubbing (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/gordon-brown/6224813/Barack-Obama-rebuffs-Gordon-Brown-as-special-relationship-sinks-to-new-low.html) the then-Prime Minister Gordon Brown. Then there's the threat he issued over the EU telling us we'd be at the "back of the queue" for a prospective trade deal at the same time that Republicans in the Congress and Senate were saying that would certainly not be the case. Democrats and their backers have never been too fond of this country much less so than the Republican Party. After all, who was it who largely funded the IRA? the Irish American Catholic lobby. Who handed the IRA legitimacy and appeared with them? The Clinton administration. That'd have been like Britain hosting al-Qaeda for talks in Downing Street: a spit in the face.

It's believed too that his dislike stems back to his Kenyan grandfathers experience with the British colonial authorities. But it's like I have said before, America isn't all too fond of Britain as a whole anyway and its a delusion on our part that this is the case. But any ill feeling towards us is certainly bedded in the Democratic Party. I like America as a country but I don't buy into this alliance myth - it's always been an alliance for their hegemony interests after World War II.


"Ah, Enoch, dear Enoch! He once said something to me I never understood. He said, "You know, I've told you all I know about housing, and you can make your speech accordingly. Can I talk to you about something that you know all about and I know nothing? I want to tell you that in the Middle East our great enemies are the Americans." You know, I had no idea what he meant. I do now."

- Sir Anthony Eden (former Prime Minister) to Andrew Freeth after the Suez Crisis, from Simon Heffer, Like the Roman: The Life of Enoch Powell, pp. 122-3.


The rivalry between both countries is deep and runs deeper than people think.

[lawrawrrr]

What I don't understand is how his supporters seem to be turning a complete blind eye to all the rape allegations, bankruptcies, practically scam enterprises (Trump U for example)... the list goes on!

I saw something on Twitter recently which said that his "real" percentage was around 20% and the polls were skewed or something - I can't find it now though!


I do now worry he may have a decent chance of winning but the policies he's pledged to SURELY won't be passed... he's a terrifying thought as a world leader though. Please, please let Sanders backers do the sensible thing and not split the Dem vote any more because it's looking like a close one as it is...

[FlyingJesus]

I think (and hope) that all his wild noise about putting up a wall around Mexico and such nonsense is just to get the uneducated majority of voters to give him a reactionary vote - it's working, and my hope is that he's just using that to grab the seat with no intention of going through with it. He's a businessman, he knows how to market a product and this time the product is himself. With any luck he's got enough intelligence along with that business acumen to make him not tear the country down

[abc]

I hope trump wins.

[-:Undertaker:-]

lawrawrrr;

The rape allegations aren't being taken seriously because that is what they are, allegations. Which have strangely just arisen as he runs for office, hmm!

Unlike Hillary Clinton who we know deserves a place in a cell (as it would be for you or me) for her incompetence over secure emails.

[lawrawrrr]

They absolutely are being taken seriously, he's literally fighting a civil lawsuit (http://www.snopes.com/2016/06/23/donald-trump-rape-lawsuit/)???? From what I know (I don't fully understand what went on) Hillary's server thing was sheer incompetence rather than active law-breaking - bit of research led me to this article (http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/columnists/ct-hillary-clinton-democrats-glanton-talk-20160706-column.html) and this listicle (http://heavy.com/news/2016/02/hillary-clinton-indicted-prosecuted-email-fbi-director-private-server/) which look fairly believable and explanatory to me...


investigators announced that Clinton did nothing criminally wrong by using her personal email account while handling classified information as secretary of state

and I kinda trust those findings rather than "Undertaker from HabboxForum" or the party-political slurs from the GOP.

What about Trump's bankruptcies and scams and various other outrageous racist, sexist, purely terrifying claims... are we all justifying those??

[RyRy]

What I don't understand is how his supporters seem to be turning a complete blind eye to all the rape allegations, bankruptcies, practically scam enterprises (Trump U for example)... the list goes on!

I saw something on Twitter recently which said that his "real" percentage was around 20% and the polls were skewed or something - I can't find it now though!


I do now worry he may have a decent chance of winning but the policies he's pledged to SURELY won't be passed... he's a terrifying thought as a world leader though. Please, please let Sanders backers do the sensible thing and not split the Dem vote any more because it's looking like a close one as it is...

Sanders backers have every right to split the vote though, Hillary Clinton would be fucking terrible. The DNC have backed their horse, shafted Sanders completely (as is demonstrated in the Wikileaks emails) and has shown that Sanders never stood a chance. The sensible thing would be Sanders supporters sticking to their guns, or voting third party.

The blame lies on the corrupt politicians who only looked out for themselves. As scary as Trump may be, he is a demonstration that Americans are fed up of their politicians being bought and the feeling that their votes don't count anymore in a two-party system where people get away with criminal acts.

Better the devil you know, than the devil who lies through her teeth.

[-:Undertaker:-]

They absolutely are being taken seriously, he's literally fighting a civil lawsuit (http://www.snopes.com/2016/06/23/donald-trump-rape-lawsuit/)???? From what I know (I don't fully understand what went on) Hillary's server thing was sheer incompetence rather than active law-breaking - bit of research led me to this article (http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/columnists/ct-hillary-clinton-democrats-glanton-talk-20160706-column.html) and this listicle (http://heavy.com/news/2016/02/hillary-clinton-indicted-prosecuted-email-fbi-director-private-server/) which look fairly believable and explanatory to me...

Trump: Yes isn't it funny that such allegations are made just as he's running for President. Now why would that be I wonder? And surely if there's anything in the case then wouldn't that be headline news and a criminal trial rather than being confined to the pages of the Huffington Post and Independent newspaper?

Clinton: Oh but come on, everybody knows if anyone else leaked secure emails from the government like that then a) there's not a chance in hell they would keep their job & b) they'd likely end up in prison. But because it's corrupt Hillary and the Clinton machine she gets a free pass. Even Democrats find her crooked af.


What about Trump's bankruptcies and scams and various other outrageous racist, sexist, purely terrifying claims... are we all justifying those??

You forgot to use other classic-but-meaningless insults such as homophobic, xenophobia and bigoted.

This tbh why I could see Trump winning it. Instead of taking on the arguments, all the left can do is dismiss him with silly and overused slurs. Like Brexit.

[FlyingJesus]

I don't think it's particularly meaningless to call a racist a racist tbh but anyway both of them should be in prison really considering y'know they broke laws and stuff

[Zak]

Maybe after this is all over we can be the 51st state of Donald Trump's America lol

[abc]

Clinton: Oh but come on, everybody knows if anyone else leaked secure emails from the government like that then a) there's not a chance in hell they would keep their job & b) they'd likely end up in prison. But because it's corrupt Hillary and the Clinton machine she gets a free pass. Even Democrats find her crooked af.

What's amazing is that she is ignoring her email scandal as if it is no big deal. And you are right, someone else would be in jail right now, and she isn't keeping her job, she is trying to get a big promotion haha!

Trump isn't an idiot to have so many successful businesses. He may have some ridiculous ideas but I like his other ideas and at least he is brave enough to say what he thinks instead of saying the things he feels will poll well. Other politicians will conduct a poll and then decide what lie to tell.

[-:Undertaker:-]

759338718859788288

[lawrawrrr]

I mean if you'd trust Trump with the nuclear button and America's military at the flip of a switch then good for you. His own biographers say that they think he'd quite happily launch WW3 or use the US' nuclear weapons and I genuinely don't think he has the brain power to realise what effects that would have...

[-:Undertaker:-]

I mean if you'd trust Trump with the nuclear button and America's military at the flip of a switch then good for you. His own biographers say that they think he'd quite happily launch WW3 or use the US' nuclear weapons and I genuinely don't think he has the brain power to realise what effects that would have...

I haven't said I would vote for Trump, but I would certainly take him over her. He's warned against baiting Russia into a confrontation like Clinton has.

But you want to give Clinton the nuclear weapons too, a dangerous woman who has already had her finger on the weapons buttons as Secretary of State when she bombed the living daylights out of Libya and Syria resulting in a Hitler-like formation of an Islamic State and frequent terrorist attacks across Europe.

But the celebrities, like with Brexit, say Hillary is hip and cool and the GOP are nasty so I guess back her. None of this is done with any thought: it's like how Hated George W Bush was over Iraq (rightly) yet those on the left like yourself all adore Obama who makes Bush look like a pragmatist when it comes to war.

[lawrawrrr]

I haven't said I would vote for Trump, but I would certainly take him over her. He's warned against baiting Russia into a confrontation like Clinton has.

But you want to give Clinton the nuclear weapons too, a dangerous woman who has already had her finger on the weapons buttons as Secretary of State when she bombed the living daylights out of Libya and Syria resulting in a Hitler-like formation of an Islamic State and frequent terrorist attacks across Europe.

But the celebrities, like with Brexit, say Hillary is hip and cool and the GOP are nasty so I guess back her. None of this is done with any thought: it's like how Hated George W Bush was over Iraq (rightly) yet those on the left like yourself all adore Obama who makes Bush look like a pragmatist when it comes to war.

I think Hillary wouldn't throw a temper tantrum over all Muslims and hit the trigger without very careful consideration and counsel, which is something Trump seems totally capable - and likely - to do. The GOP isn't inherently nasty, but Trump absolutely is.

I do like how you're blaming Clinton for ISIS forming though that's quite the thought process! I don't think she's totes hip and cool but she does have some great policies and platforms in her campaign that actually make SENSE and the fact she's sworn to work with Sanders on his free education policy I think is a wonderful thing for America.

On policies alone I probably support Sanders more than Clinton to be perfectly honest but the thought of Trump in power scares me - even not as an American - and the lengths some of his supporters go to to bully GOP voters or actually ignore/excuse Trump's behaviour (why is noone up in arms about all the cases he's had about unfair dismissals and fraud and treating workers badly while he proclaims to be the champion of the working people) is just a bit baffling to me?

[-:Undertaker:-]

I think Hillary wouldn't throw a temper tantrum over all Muslims and hit the trigger without very careful consideration and counsel, which is something Trump seems totally capable - and likely - to do. The GOP isn't inherently nasty, but Trump absolutely is.

None of this is actually logical argument, it's just you assuming that somebody who points out the huge problems in Islam is therefore against all muslims and wants to nuke them. Where has this thought process come from? You're inventing things in your mind and attributing them to him.

I supported Senator Rand Paul but I see no evidence of the extraordinary claims (a nuclear holocaust) you're making against Trump here.


I do like how you're blaming Clinton for ISIS forming though that's quite the thought process! I don't think she's totes hip and cool but she does have some great policies and platforms in her campaign that actually make SENSE and the fact she's sworn to work with Sanders on his free education policy I think is a wonderful thing for America.

Clinton didn't cause Islamic State in the ideology but she did help create the vaccum in which they are thriving. Everybody with a brain knew bombing Libya wouldn't result in a liberal democracy with a McDonalds on every corner. It resulted in even worse lunatics than the Colonel taking over. And the same applies to Syria, which she *still* wants to bomb the living daylights out of when Assad is the only reasonable actor in the game.

Now how can you say somebody wanting to bring down the Assad regime and who wants a confrontation with Russia 'makes sense'?


On policies alone I probably support Sanders more than Clinton to be perfectly honest but the thought of Trump in power scares me - even not as an American - and the lengths some of his supporters go to to bully GOP voters or actually ignore/excuse Trump's behaviour (why is noone up in arms about all the cases he's had about unfair dismissals and fraud and treating workers badly while he proclaims to be the champion of the working people) is just a bit baffling to me?

Sanders is virtually a communist like Corbyn. AT LEAST Trump has provided jobs for working people, what have Hillary and Bernie done?

Classic student politics and promising everything for free to students who'll believe anything. Result? Venezuela. Britain 1970s. Chile 1970s.