9th circuit Clinton appointed judges rule against travel ban

[Landon]

All three idiot judges, appointed by President Bill Clinton, have ruled against Trump's travel ban on six predominately Muslim countries. The case will be appealed to the SCOTUS where there's a good chance it will be overturned.

Talk about a bunch of idiots that are asking for terror.


Another federal court has ruled against President Donald Trump's revised executive order limiting travel from six predominately Muslim countries -- and like other courts, used his tweets against him.

The ruling from a three-judge panel of the Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals is yet another stinging loss from a court that similarly refused to reinstate Trump's original executive order on travel in February.
"We conclude that the President, in issuing the Executive Order, exceeded the scope of the authority delegated to him by Congress," the three judges, all appointed by President Bill Clinton, wrote. "(I)mmigration, even for the President, is not a one-person show."

http://www.cnn.com/2017/06/12/politics/9th-circuit-travel-ban/index.html

[scottish]

Teenager calling a well accomplished professional an idiot, cute.

[Neversoft]

Not even Frank Underwood could establish a travel ban.

[Landon]

Teenager calling a well accomplished professional an idiot, cute.

Exactly! It's neat to be able to have a voice and point out flaws in public officials.

[lawrawrrr]

Trump is an idiot tbh - was told basically from day 1 calling it a MUSLIM ban will 100% make sure it's overturned.

But he still tweets about a muslim ban

YOU HAD ONE RULE

[Landon]

Trump is an idiot tbh - was told basically from day 1 calling it a MUSLIM ban will 100% make sure it's overturned.

But he still tweets about a muslim ban

YOU HAD ONE RULE
scottish; Tell her off for calling Trump an idiot since she isn't a successful businesswoman and/or the president. Oh right, you won't. When the other side does it, it's okay.



Anyways, he's right. Take a look at all of these attacks. Muslims. Ban all Muslims from entering the United States to help prevent issues.

[lawrawrrr]

@scottish (https://www.habboxforum.com/member.php?u=53890); Tell her off for calling Trump an idiot since she isn't a successful businesswoman and/or the president. Oh right, you won't. When the other side does it, it's okay.



Anyways, he's right. Take a look at all of these attacks. Muslims. Ban all Muslims from entering the United States to help prevent issues.
what about terrorist attacks not committed by muslims

they're all committed by men

make it a ban on men, makes more sense

[Landon]

what about terrorist attacks not committed by muslims

they're all committed by men

make it a ban on men, makes more sense

You're a sexist. They're not all committed by men. So let's ban everyone, shall we? I like the idea more than anything. Ban all immigration until a new system is reformed.

[lawrawrrr]

You're a sexist. They're not all committed by men. So let's ban everyone, shall we? I like the idea more than anything. Ban all immigration until a new system is reformed.
My comment was quite clearly tongue in cheek to point out how ridiculous your comment was (which I completely understand that you won't get, but it wasn't for your benefit)

But in all seriousness all of the major terrorist attacks have allllllllllllll been carried out solely by men. Not solely by muslims.


also: banning immigration doesn't stop the people already in the country? doesn't stop people born there with all right to stay? 4th gen immigrants? white people radicalised by isis? my god the list goes on it's just so ridiculous

[Landon]

My comment was quite clearly tongue in cheek to point out how ridiculous your comment was (which I completely understand that you won't get, but it wasn't for your benefit)

But in all seriousness all of the major terrorist attacks have allllllllllllll been carried out solely by men. Not solely by muslims.


also: banning immigration doesn't stop the people already in the country? doesn't stop people born there with all right to stay? 4th gen immigrants? white people radicalised by isis? my god the list goes on it's just so ridiculous

No, I really do think everyone should be banned until we figure things out. But the only option that I have that at least some people can agree upon is the country ban.

"major" terror attacks? All of them are major. You're cherrypicking so as to prove that your side of the story is better. Only the ones committed by men are major. Okay. Another example of feminism.

Banning immigration stops people outside of the country from coming in to screw us up. It's the easiest first step that we have. We ban immigration, then and only then do we take a look at what's happening inside the country in the process without the worry of outside sources.

[lawrawrrr]

No, I really do think everyone should be banned until we figure things out. But the only option that I have that at least some people can agree upon is the country ban.

"major" terror attacks? All of them are major. You're cherrypicking so as to prove that your side of the story is better. Only the ones committed by men are major. Okay. Another example of feminism.

Banning immigration stops people outside of the country from coming in to screw us up. It's the easiest first step that we have. We ban immigration, then and only then do we take a look at what's happening inside the country in the process without the worry of outside sources.

EVERYONE should be banned from the country? that would stop all crime if noone was there... also gdp would be amazing if it's just the president Trump would love that. But yes like I said what about the people ALREADY THERE - which in the UK's case is most if not all of the attackers recently. That's also definitely the case for at least one of the US ones as well.

omg you've gotta get this idea of me being some radical sjw feminist out of your head!! yes there are levels of "major" terrorist incidents. London, Manchester, Orlando, Paris, Boston, the ones that make GLOBAL HEADLINE NEWS are major incidents and just happen to have all been committed by men. The reason I JOKINGLY (that means NOT SERIOUSLY) said ban all men was because I have not personally heard of a terrorist incident being committed by a woman. The only related thing is that blonde woman who was said to join ISIS and was gonna come back to Britain for something?

[Landon]

EVERYONE should be banned from the country? that would stop all crime if noone was there... also gdp would be amazing if it's just the president Trump would love that. But yes like I said what about the people ALREADY THERE - which in the UK's case is most if not all of the attackers recently. That's also definitely the case for at least one of the US ones as well.

omg you've gotta get this idea of me being some radical sjw feminist out of your head!! yes there are levels of "major" terrorist incidents. London, Manchester, Orlando, Paris, Boston, the ones that make GLOBAL HEADLINE NEWS are major incidents and just happen to have all been committed by men. The reason I JOKINGLY (that means NOT SERIOUSLY) said ban all men was because I have not personally heard of a terrorist incident being committed by a woman. The only related thing is that blonde woman who was said to join ISIS and was gonna come back to Britain for something?

Yes, EVERYONE should be banned from immigrating to the country.

You haven't heard about females committing terrorist attacks? Here's just a few examples under one specific topic: Suicide bombers. Yes, females do it too.

Sana'a Mehaidli (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sana%27a_Mehaidli)
Wafa Idris (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wafa_Idris)
Rajiv Gandhi (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assassination_of_Rajiv_Gandhi)
Muriel Degauque (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muriel_Degauque)


going to work, back in a while

[lawrawrrr]

Yes, EVERYONE should be banned from immigrating to the country.

You haven't heard about females committing terrorist attacks? Here's just a few examples under one specific topic: Suicide bombers. Yes, females do it too.

Sana'a Mehaidli (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sana%27a_Mehaidli)
Wafa Idris (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wafa_Idris)
Rajiv Gandhi (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assassination_of_Rajiv_Gandhi)
Muriel Degauque (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muriel_Degauque)


going to work, back in a while
ok I don't count 1985, 1991, 2002 or 2005 as "recent" which is what my post refers to

[-:Undertaker:-]

what about terrorist attacks not committed by muslims

I didn't realise the world was facing the problem of Buddhist or Taosit terrorism.

If Germany were bombing us today, you'd be telling us all that not all air raids are caused by Germans.


they're all committed by men

make it a ban on men, makes more sense

Well no it doesn't make sense does it as you're avoiding the real issue (radical Islamic terrorism) to be politically correct.

[lawrawrrr]

I didn't realise the world was facing the problem of Buddhist or Taosit terrorism.



Well no it doesn't make sense does it as you're avoiding the real issue (radical Islamic terrorism) to be politically correct.
how about christians

the problem is TERRORISM IN GENERAL not a religion

there are 2 billion muslims in the world why should the majority of them suffer because of what one crazy sect is doing? it's like banning all christians because of what the KKK or the WBC do which is not representative of that religion or all its believers

I mean I'm not actually expecting a logical response here because I know noone will ever get through to you and you'll come up with some astounding leap of logic in response....

[FlyingJesus]

America doesn't have a "Muslim problem" in any way shape or form so why would they ban Muslims from entering? What they DO have is an epidemic of murders and public shootings perpetrated by their own civilians, with well over 100 mass shootings so far this year. Those with 3 or more fatalities (not including the gunman) are so far 50% white, 25% black, 25% Latino, meaning 0% Middle Eastern.

So no Daniel, in this instance at least the "real" issue is nothing to do with Islam, which is why this daft ban didn't get through

[Joe]

Landon; Also as you mentioned the women terrorists in counter to what Laura said about men and your little spat about her calling them major. Major probably not the best word by Laura but you knew EXACTLY what she was getting at - widely reported.

Sana'a Mehaidli did this "blew herself and a Peugeot filled with explosives up next to an Israeli convoy in Jezzine, Lebanon, during the Israeli occupation of South Lebanon. Two Israeli soldiers were killed and twelve were injured"

Bolded words include a country that western press don't give a shit about and a death toll that will barely make the back pages in the UK.

Editing whilst I'm annoyed: there does seem to be a certain level of stubborness with yourself and Dan which, although I respect for having a strong opinion, you absolutely refuse to listen. We have to, you should both try.

[Landon]

Landon; Also as you mentioned the women terrorists in counter to what Laura said about men and your little spat about her calling them major. Major probably not the best word by Laura but you knew EXACTLY what she was getting at - widely reported.

Sana'a Mehaidli did this "blew herself and a Peugeot filled with explosives up next to an Israeli convoy in Jezzine, Lebanon, during the Israeli occupation of South Lebanon. Two Israeli soldiers were killed and twelve were injured"

Bolded words include a country that western press don't give a shit about and a death toll that will barely make the back pages in the UK.

Editing whilst I'm annoyed: there does seem to be a certain level of stubborness with yourself and Dan which, although I respect for having a strong opinion, you absolutely refuse to listen. We have to, you should both try.

I find it hilarious how every damned response from you guys ends something like "omg im never going to get through to you guys, you are stubborn idiots". It's hilarious and childish. And no, I didn't get what she meant. She's cherrypicking.


ok I don't count 1985, 1991, 2002 or 2005 as "recent" which is what my post refers to

There you go again. "I don't count this" "all committed by men... but NOT ALL!"

What's it going to be? I count all terror attacks as important and major. And yes. Those are recent as well.

[lawrawrrr]

I find it hilarious how every damned response from you guys ends something like "omg im never going to get through to you guys, you are stubborn idiots". It's hilarious and childish. And no, I didn't get what she meant. She's cherrypicking.



There you go again. "I don't count this" "all committed by men... but NOT ALL!"

What's it going to be? I count all terror attacks as important and major. And yes. Those are recent as well.

Recent = since the rise of Isis, at least s decade. Not "cherry picking" to fit this "agenda" you think I have but just making a relevant, modern, argument. No point comparing what's happening now to 30, 40 years ago as it's a different group with different tactics. Even 10 years ago there wasn't this online radicalising presence, there wasn't such publicly known beheadings so yeah, shit's changed and the way we look at it should change too.

But there are millions of peaceful muslims and to ban them from travelling - which actually includes extremely influential, successful, talented, skilled, NEEDED, muslims - is unfair on them and bad for Americans and the American economy.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[lemons]

scottish; Tell her off for calling Trump an idiot since she isn't a successful businesswoman and/or the president. Oh right, you won't. When the other side does it, it's okay.



Anyways, he's right. Take a look at all of these attacks. Muslims. Ban all Muslims from entering the United States to help prevent issues.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terrorism_in_the_United_States

Yes, let's take a look at all these attacks! Vast majority from 2010-present carried out by American born citizens :rolleyes: Also a lot of white non-muslims on that list, but as we all know they aren't terrorists, just crazy white people with mental issues :rolleyes:

A lot of shootings on that list too... almost as if the US has a major gun problem? :O

Most terror attacks in the UK and US are carried out by people who have lived there since childhood or even birth... tell me how a travel ban would prevent terrorism plz

There is no point in you bringing up terrorist attacks that were decades ago because Trump's proposed ban is in response to recent attacks

[MKR&*42]

Lmao I love how you're willing to call legal experts 'idiots'. Please, do give me an extensive account as to your own knowledge of the legality over the ban, seeing as you clearly know better than someone who probably spent 10 years of their life training to be a judge.

God it's so fucking amusing when people like you get upset at the judicial system for doing it's job, simply because it didn't go in your favour.

[FlyingJesus]

There you go again. "I don't count this" "all committed by men... but NOT ALL!"

What's it going to be? I count all terror attacks as important and major. And yes. Those are recent as well.

So 4 women over a decade ago being involved means it's ok to say that men aren't to blame, however you're totally happy with:


Take a look at all of these attacks. Muslims.

Despite it not being true at all

[-:Undertaker:-]

it's like banning all christians because of what the KKK or the WBC do which is not representative of that religion or all its believers

The KKK and WBC don't currently have tens if not hundreds of thousands of followers around the world and millions of sympathiers. Nor are they funded by Gulf states. Nor are they currently distributing propaganda around the Churches of America, the prisons or the schools. Nor are they currently engaged in a global jihad against non-believers. Nor are they in control of any terrority.

So it'd be like banning all Christians if there was actually a similarity. But there's not.


how about christians

the problem is TERRORISM IN GENERAL not a religion

there are 2 billion muslims in the world why should the majority of them suffer because of what one crazy sect is doing?

I mean I'm not actually expecting a logical response here because I know noone will ever get through to you and you'll come up with some astounding leap of logic in response....

Oh my God. The problem isn't Islamic terror she says, it's terrorism "in general". Unreal. :rolleyes: It's amazing though that you're telling us all that what we see with our own two eyes and what security experts say is wrong though. It's not as though we're facing a worldwide global jihad movement by Wahabbist Islam oh no no no, it's just sporadic incidents of general terror you tell us. Totally random with no connecting cause. Righttttttt.

In your eyes then, the Troubles must've just been random acts of terror. Nothing to do with Catholic/Irish republicanism as a cause. And the terrorism in Spain with ETA? Nothing to do with Basque separtism so says Laura! Why, just random acts of terror!

You threw logic out the window with your first reply. But whatever, go lay some flowers at the next London attack.

[Landon]

Lmao I love how you're willing to call legal experts 'idiots'. Please, do give me an extensive account as to your own knowledge of the legality over the ban, seeing as you clearly know better than someone who probably spent 10 years of their life training to be a judge.

God it's so fucking amusing when people like you get upset at the judicial system for doing it's job, simply because it didn't go in your favour.

They're real experts, are they. Lol. Not good ones. They're idiots. You're right. I'm willing.
It's the job of the people to point out flaws. Tell you what. If the travel ban is approved by the supreme court, are you going to criticize the court, even though they are professionals? I'd like to see it.


Despite it not being true at all

Alright. Give me evidence that the majority of these attacks are not committed by Muslims. Let's see it.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terror..._United_States

Yes, let's take a look at all these attacks! Vast majority from 2010-present carried out by American born citizens Also a lot of white non-muslims on that list, but as we all know they aren't terrorists, just crazy white people with mental issues

A lot of shootings on that list too... almost as if the US has a major gun problem?

Most terror attacks in the UK and US are carried out by people who have lived there since childhood or even birth... tell me how a travel ban would prevent terrorism plz

There is no point in you bringing up terrorist attacks that were decades ago because Trump's proposed ban is in response to recent attacks

You're endorsing outside sourced terrorism. That's what I want to stop even if it's not a big problem. As soon as we stop outside terror, we can then put all resources into inside terror which is what I have said for a while and will continue. We won't have to deal with the outside sources while we're fixing up our own.


But there are millions of peaceful muslims and to ban them from travelling - which actually includes extremely influential, successful, talented, skilled, NEEDED, muslims - is unfair on them and bad for Americans and the American economy.

Of course its unfair. :) That's why I want to ban everyone so that the immigration system is reformed. But again, it wouldn't be voted through. So you've got a choice. Do you want to ban EVERYONE, where it would be fair to Muslims, or do you want to ban the Muslim nations, the source of the oursourced problems? You tell me what would be more fair.

And yes. You're cherrypicking. You sympathize with Muslims so anything that helps them is okay to you - not the law-abiding citizens.

[FlyingJesus]

This thread is about America

- - - Updated - - -


Alright. Give me evidence that the majority of these attacks are not committed by Muslims. Let's see it.

The only attack in America that's been put down as "terrorism" in 2017 was a white guy with a sword who stabbed an old black man because he didn't like interracial marriages. Aside from that, the four mass shootings that have occurred in your country are (as I already told you) 50% white, 25% black, 25% Latino as seen here (https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2012/12/mass-shootings-mother-jones-full-data/). That is again, 0% Muslim

[Landon]

This thread is about America

- - - Updated - - -



The only attack in America that's been put down as "terrorism" in 2017 was a white guy with a sword who stabbed an old black man because he didn't like interracial marriages. Aside from that, the four mass shootings that have occurred in your country are (as I already told you) 50% white, 25% black, 25% Latino as seen here (https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2012/12/mass-shootings-mother-jones-full-data/). That is again, 0% Muslim

Oh I remember. You only count 2017 as recent along with laura. okay you win.

[Matthew]

You're a sexist. They're not all committed by men. So let's ban everyone, shall we? I like the idea more than anything. Ban all immigration until a new system is reformed.
http://i2.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/facebook/000/992/401/e37.png

i don't understand why you're so obsessed with fixing the "outsourced" (???) problems first when its far more lethal problem at the moment, as it has been for some time in your country, is the "in-house" (:P) mass shootings

you can't justify banning all muslims to allow you to put more resources into your "inside terror" when that has been a problem for years and nothing has changed

[Landon]

http://i2.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/facebook/000/992/401/e37.png

i don't understand why you're so obsessed with fixing the "outsourced" (???) problems first when its clear the far bigger problem at the moment is "in-house" (:P) mass shootings

you can't justify banning all muslims to allow you to put more resources into your "inside terror" when that has been a problem for years and nothing has changed

If we try to fix inside sources then we ignore outside sources and suffer.

[Matthew]

If we try to fix inside sources then we ignore outside sources and suffer.

oh is that right is it

the whole reason mass shootings are a regular occurrence in your country is because all of your resources are going into your anti outsourced (i.e. anti muslim) agenda

i see

[Landon]

oh is that right is it

the whole reason mass shootings are a regular occurrence in your country is because all of your resources are going into your anti muslim agenda

i see

The fact of the matter is, radical islamic terrorism starts/started from a place outside of the United States. ISIS is positioned in the middle east. We need to work on destroying them, and then we can focus on destroying the remnants in the US.

[FlyingJesus]

Ok then, successful attacks that have been classified as "terrorist" in the USA since 2010:

Feb 2010 - Joe Stack, non Muslim antigov
March 2010 - JP Bedell, non Muslim antigov
May 2010 - Jerry & Joseph Kane, non Muslim antigov
Sep 2010 - James J Lee, non Muslim environmentalist
Aug 2012 - Wade Page, non Muslim white supremacist
Feb 2013 - Chris Dorner, non Muslim antigov
Apr 2013 - Dzhokhar & Tamerlan Tsarnaev, Muslim
Nov 2013 - Paul Ciancia, non Muslim antigov
Apr 2014 - Frazier Glenn Miller Jr, non Muslim neoNazi
Apr/Jun 2014 - Ali Brown, Muslim
Jun 2014 - Jerad & Amanda Miller, non Muslim antigov
Sep 2014 - Erin Frein, non Muslim antigov
Sep 2014 - Alton Nolen, Muslim
Oct 2014 - Zale Thompson, Muslim
May 2015 - Elton Simpson & Nadir Soofi, Muslim
Jun 2015 - Dylann Roof, non Muslim neoNazi
Jul 2015 - Muhammad Abdulazeez, Muslim
Nov 2015 - Faisal Mohammad, Muslim
Nov 2015 - Robert Dear, non Muslim antiabortionist
Dec 2015 - Rizwan Farook & Tashfeen Malik, Muslim
Feb 2016 - Mohamed Barry, Muslim
Jun 2016 - Omar Mateen, Muslim
Sep 2016 - Dahir Adan, Muslim
Sep 2016 - Ahmad Khan Rahimi, Muslim
Nov 2016 - Abdul Razik Ali Artan, Muslim
Mar 2017 - James Harris Jackson, non Muslim neoNazi


12/26 suspected or claimed Muslim, and this is of course a tiny number compared to the amount of general shootings (or even mass shootings) in the country. I do my homework Landon, I actually read into these things rather than just guessing and telling people they're wrong when they're not. Do me the same courtesy if you're going to make daft claims

[Landon]

Ok then, successful attacks that have been classified as "terrorist" in the USA since 2010:

Feb 2010 - Joe Stack, non Muslim antigov
March 2010 - JP Bedell, non Muslim antigov
May 2010 - Jerry & Joseph Kane, non Muslim antigov
Sep 2010 - James J Lee, non Muslim environmentalist
Aug 2012 - Wade Page, non Muslim white supremacist
Feb 2013 - Chris Dorner, non Muslim antigov
Apr 2013 - Dzhokhar & Tamerlan Tsarnaev, Muslim
Nov 2013 - Paul Ciancia, non Muslim antigov
Apr 2014 - Frazier Glenn Miller Jr, non Muslim neoNazi
Apr/Jun 2014 - Ali Brown, Muslim
Jun 2014 - Jerad & Amanda Miller, non Muslim antigov
Sep 2014 - Erin Frein, non Muslim antigov
Sep 2014 - Alton Nolen, Muslim
Oct 2014 - Zale Thompson, Muslim
May 2015 - Elton Simpson & Nadir Soofi, Muslim
Jun 2015 - Dylann Roof, non Muslim neoNazi
Jul 2015 - Muhammad Abdulazeez, Muslim
Nov 2015 - Faisal Mohammad, Muslim
Nov 2015 - Robert Dear, non Muslim antiabortionist
Dec 2015 - Rizwan Farook & Tashfeen Malik, Muslim
Feb 2016 - Mohamed Barry, Muslim
Jun 2016 - Omar Mateen, Muslim
Sep 2016 - Dahir Adan, Muslim
Sep 2016 - Ahmad Khan Rahimi, Muslim
Nov 2016 - Abdul Razik Ali Artan, Muslim
Mar 2017 - James Harris Jackson, non Muslim neoNazi


12/26 suspected or claimed Muslim, and this is of course a tiny number compared to the amount of general shootings (or even mass shootings) in the country. I do my homework Landon, I actually read into these things rather than just guessing and telling people they're wrong when they're not. Do me the same courtesy if you're going to make daft claims

I don't know where you got yours, but I can find a lot more incidents in that time that were either muslim or radicalized. This doesn't include non muslim but the incidents that you have are lacking.

https://image.prntscr.com/image/paKuuIdiTeKGlNAZL057nw.png

[FlyingJesus]

Showing your lack of reading comprehension there, I did say that my list was successful attacks that are counted (by the govt) as terrorism, and yes there are far far far more incidents as I again said - the numbers of shootings and stabbings on a regular basis in America are astronomical, that was my point originally

[lemons]

You're endorsing outside sourced terrorism. That's what I want to stop even if it's not a big problem. As soon as we stop outside terror, we can then put all resources into inside terror which is what I have said for a while and will continue. We won't have to deal with the outside sources while we're fixing up our own.


When did I endorse anything? Are you actually accusing me of endorsing terrorism and the deaths of people lol? Fact is closing borders will not prevent terrorism - and if "inside terrorism" is the bigger issue surely Trump should tackle that first rather than a Muslim ban that will do absolutely nothing whatsoever

Landon you really need to reply to the facts and reality that people are handing you rather than ignoring everything everyone says, we get that your a 'libtard' hating Trump loving citizen but that doesn't excuse you from ever being wrong!

If I endorse terrorism then you must endorse school shootings as republicans want less and less gun control

[Landon]

When did I endorse anything? Are you actually accusing me of endorsing terrorism and the deaths of people lol? Fact is closing borders will not prevent terrorism - and if "inside terrorism" is the bigger issue surely Trump should tackle that first rather than a Muslim ban that will do absolutely nothing whatsoever

You're allowing for outside sourced terror.


Landon you really need to reply to the facts and reality that people are handing you rather than ignoring everything everyone says, we get that your a 'libtard' hating Trump loving citizen but that doesn't excuse you from ever being wrong!

Exactly right sir!


If I endorse terrorism then you must endorse school shootings as republicans want less and less gun control

If we allow everyone to have a gun, we won't have as many problems. I don't think no guns is a terrible idea, but there's not much we can do to take it from everyone now. We've been like that since the start of our nation.