Transgenders-in-the-US-military policy reversed

[-:Undertaker:-]

US reverses Obama administration's transgenders-in-the-military policy

Policy which allows military funds to be spent on transgender soldiers is reversed

901218151387598848

901213243749703680

Well done Mr President. The military isn't a BBC Three drama cast.

Pull the rainbow flag down and fly the stars and stripes (and bars) high! https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/6/6b/United_states_confederate_flag_hybrid.png/29px-United_states_confederate_flag_hybrid.png

[xxMATTGxx]

He's such a joker - I'm glad the UK has not gone down to this route and should accept anyone in the armed forces if they can do the job. Regardless of their gender or sexuality.

[scottish]

I don't see the problem with transgender in the military, if they're willing to fight for their country then why the hell not?

I don't imagine anyone cares about flying a rainbow flag when they're in enemy territory fighting for their lives and their country.

[FlyingJesus]

Should all be based on having the proper mental and physical capabilities, nothing else needs to come into play. Obviously trans-fat Glendawing the quadracial unicorn can't fight a war with xir wheelchair and tendency to screech at people all day long, but Mike from Buffalo who just happened to be Michelle as a kid is probably fine to go out and serve as long as he can do what soldiers need to

[despect]

Like everyone else has said, what exactly is the issue with them wanting to fight for their country. Women can do just as much as the men, times have moved on, there's more equality between men and women now, he should move on with the times too.

[MightyMagician]

Hopefully the military isn't the only thing Trump's gonna ban them from.

[Joe]

Very confused at this. Anyone has the right to serve for their country. It worries me that people who I share my generation with agree with the ban.

[MightyMagician]

There's no such thing as a transgender human being. They are mentally ill degenerates, and clearly Trump realizes this.

[FlyingJesus]

Not agreeing with a process doesn't mean it doesn't exist

[MightyMagician]

Not agreeing with a process doesn't mean it doesn't exist

There is no process to being transgender. Anatomy is anatomy and no hormonal injection is going to change that regardless of how big the dose is. If you're born a guy and you believe you're a girl or vice versa, you're mentally ill.

[-:Undertaker:-]

Very confused at this. Anyone has the right to serve for their country. It worries me that people who I share my generation with agree with the ban.

Not everybody does have the right to serve their country, and for good reason. Let's stop worshiping the false god of 'Equality' and think about it properly rather than hollow catchphrases. Old people cannot serve. Mentally ill people cannot serve. Unfit people cannot serve. Children cannot serve. The disabled cannot serve. Short people cannot serve. Overweight people cannot serve.

"Anyone can serve their country" has a nice ring to it but like the other LGBTZXYZ slogans it has no basis in reality.

[FlyingJesus]

There is no process to being transgender. Anatomy is anatomy and no hormonal injection is going to change that regardless of how big the dose is. If you're born a guy and you believe you're a girl or vice versa, you're mentally ill.

If you have red paint and add a load of blue it'll go through purple hues and at a certain level the red will be so diluted that it'll just end up blue, so "everything is exactly how it began forever" is completely ridiculous, especially when you bring science into it.
Being categorically wrong about things is not an opinion, it's just being wrong

[-:Undertaker:-]

If you have red paint and add a load of blue it'll go through purple hues and at a certain level the red will be so diluted that it'll just end up blue, so "everything is exactly how it began forever" is completely ridiculous, especially when you bring science into it.

It isn't ridiculous at all - let's talk science rather than paint colours. The human body is programmed genetically by DNA and chromosomes. These cannot be altered as your sex, bone structure, natural hormones and genetic makeup are determined from conception - right down to your hair texture. Sure, you can have an operation where they shape skin grafts to look like a penis which you then blow up with a pump to give the appearance of a male penis but it is no more a penis than I am Count Dracula when I dress up for Halloween. It's just a piece of skin shaped like a penis like my Dracula 'teeth' are just a piece of plastic shaped like teeth.

If I have muscle implants to make it look as though I have a six pack, do I have a six pack? It looks like I do, but in reality I do not.


Being categorically wrong about things is not an opinion, it's just being wrong

You can say that again.

[FlyingJesus]

Yawn, we've been here before and all I have to do is mention XX males and XY females and you have no real response. It's pretty obvious to anyone with actual scientific knowledge that DNA is not the be all and end all of what makes a person. Tell me, if someone is born a quadraplegic and has extensive surgery to give them limbs, are they still a quadraplegic? If your answer is yes, you're obviously not especially clever, and if it's no, then you must concede that science and surgery can absolutely change the category a person was born into. Your muscle implant situation is not relevant at all since that's only cosmetic, while gender reassignment goes so much deeper than that as you well know but love to ignore

ps: this (http://www.naturalnews.com/042157_DNA_transformation_science_epigenetics.html )

[MightyMagician]

Yawn, we've been here before and all I have to do is mention XX males and XY females and you have no real response. It's pretty obvious to anyone with actual scientific knowledge that DNA is not the be all and end all of what makes a person. Tell me, if someone is born a quadraplegic and has extensive surgery to give them limbs, are they still a quadraplegic? If your answer is yes, you're obviously not especially clever, and if it's no, then you must concede that science and surgery can absolutely change the category a person was born into. Your muscle implant situation is not relevant at all since that's only cosmetic, while gender reassignment goes so much deeper than that as you well know but love to ignore

ps: this (http://www.naturalnews.com/042157_DNA_transformation_science_epigenetics.html )

How.the.hell.do.you.surgically.remove.all.of.a.fem ales.insides.and.then.redesign.them.to.make.a.legi timate.male?

- - - Updated - - -

Never mind the details of that, why would you let a random stranger(God forbid it be a pedophile) change your kid, and put in parts from the opposite sex? Need I mention that accidents can happen, and the wrong donor could potentially mean your child getting AIDS? I'm seriously not sure if I should be creeped out or disgusted by the thought of this.

[FlyingJesus]

That is quite an impressive display of ignorance with regards to modern surgery. Add it to the list of things you know nothing about but still attempt to preach.

Surgeons are PAEDOS with GAY AIDS medicine is WITCHCRAFT my liver is a BOY

[MightyMagician]

That is quite an impressive display of ignorance with regards to modern surgery. Add it to the list of things you know nothing about but still attempt to preach.

Surgeons are PAEDOS with GAY AIDS medicine is WITCHCRAFT my liver is a BOY

What part of my post said it would be intentional? I simply said that accidents can happen and you just immediately lost it. Considering the number of doctors in history who were serial killers, I'd say the sky's the limit.

[FlyingJesus]

I was merely pointing out how little that has to do with the issue at hand. Accidents can happen, so never try anything or trust anyone

[AgnesIO]

How.the.hell.do.you.surgically.remove.all.of.a.fem ales.insides.and.then.redesign.them.to.make.a.legi timate.male?

- - - Updated - - -

Never mind the details of that, why would you let a random stranger(God forbid it be a pedophile) change your kid, and put in parts from the opposite sex? Need I mention that accidents can happen, and the wrong donor could potentially mean your child getting AIDS? I'm seriously not sure if I should be creeped out or disgusted by the thought of this.

Don't be a dunce... there isn't a single procedure in the world that can cause you to simply "get AIDS"....

[MightyMagician]

Don't be a dunce... there isn't a single procedure in the world that can cause you to simply "get AIDS"....

balls and penis require sperm to sexually function, as a woman needs to also have her own fluids downstairs. Where is that gonna come from?

[FlyingJesus]

So are infertile people no longer humans or something

[MightyMagician]

So are infertile people no longer humans or something

Gender reassignment surgery would be pointless then. What would they gain from switching their anatomy? A different way to urinate? That's literally the only plausible reason I can come up with.

[FlyingJesus]

You didn't answer my question, and if you think gender is only about pissing and having babies then why are you so up in arms over the issue

[MightyMagician]

You didn't answer my question, and if you think gender is only about pissing and having babies then why are you so up in arms over the issue

When you can interpret my posts at face value, then I will answer your troll responses. Obviously both genders have their benefits, but if you're getting that kind of operation just for the sake of taking a piss in the opposite sex's restroom, there is zero point. I never said they were not human, but I can't say that they're sane either. Parents telling their children why they have to see a woman with an Adam's apple and a penis or a guy with a vagina and boobs is obviously not something that is healthy for any functioning country. And we already have people like Jazz Jennings(Shocker) who milk exposure to their fantasy for monetary gain(Even more shocking :rolleyes:). Next up is the normalization of pedophilia.

[FlyingJesus]

Iiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiin order:

Asking a question about the logical end point of your daft reasoning isn't a troll response, no-one gets a sex change just to go into a different toilet, you've just claimed that infertile people are insane, plenty of women do have Adam's apples, if people are exposing themselves to minors that's a far bigger issue than "why do they have ___", lots of people are media hogs even without surgery, and paedophilia has nothing at all to do with gender

Do feel free to try again, but I expect instead you'll just make some outrageous claim that I'm trolling when I ask you to follow your supposed "logic" through to its end

[MightyMagician]

Iiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiin order:

Asking a question about the logical end point of your daft reasoning isn't a troll response, no-one gets a sex change just to go into a different toilet, you've just claimed that infertile people are insane, plenty of women do have Adam's apples, if people are exposing themselves to minors that's a far bigger issue than "why do they have ___", lots of people are media hogs even without surgery, and paedophilia has nothing at all to do with gender

Do feel free to try again, but I expect instead you'll just make some outrageous claim that I'm trolling when I ask you to follow your supposed "logic" through to its end

Nowhere in the thread did I say that infertile people are mentally ill. I said that transgenders are mentally ill, and that they'd need that body matter in order for them to actually function like the gender they believe they are. Undertaker hit the nail on the head - you can attach the genitals and it would mean nothing since they can't experience love the way they envision in their fantasy world. Sure, you can do multiple things by being the opposite gender, but you can accomplish those benefits through the hormonal shots and fashion in order to get the ball rolling. Gender reassignment means you're just changing your sex organs - changing your aesthetics would fall on plastic surgery and cosmetics. Getting a penis or a vagina means you can piss differently.

And exposure isn't just limited to the media - it's literally everywhere. I'll add this video, since Sinead McCarthy is brutally honest about the scenario.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hipprBJflN4

[MKR&*42]

Next up is the normalization of pedophilia.

I don't know why people love chucking this out there everytime something remotely socially progressive happens. Oh my God if we legalise homosexuality then we're one step away from paedophilia! Oh my God if we legalise same-sex marriage we're one step away from letting children get married! Oh my God if we let people be the sex they want to be then we're one step away from paedophilia!

It's simply not true and the instant you say it makes you seem so fucking stupid.

[FlyingJesus]

"I never said they were not human, but I can't say that they're sane either" in response to me asking if you think that infertile people aren't human. So yes, you did say that... not my fault if you can't even follow your own conversation

[MightyMagician]

"I never said they were not human, but I can't say that they're sane either" in response to me asking if you think that infertile people aren't human. So yes, you did say that... not my fault if you can't even follow your own conversation

Brain fart, maybe? I wasn't thinking at the time that infertile people are insane, my thought process was still focused on transgenders since they are the scope of the thread. Can't change that post to clarify now anyway.

[Joe]

Next up is the normalization of pedophilia.

What an incredibly weird thing to deduce from this thread.

Bottom line is we should all want to be more social progressive in our standpoints regardless of our disagreements. The issue stems with those afraid of (or quite frankly don't want to) change their views. Some people are so closed-minded about any change to society that we end up moving nowhere or end up having a very divided society which never ends well. I will still see a person with boobs as female a person with a dick as male and I will not change. I will not walk up to someone and ask what pronouns they want to be. I will, however, happily stand corrected if someone turns around and says "actually I identify as x" and I'll happily change the way I refer to them - simple as. The problem lies with the ones that either don't budge, regardless of differing opinions and with those who want everything. I have trouble going onto twitter and seeing so much stupid shit about transgender issues that literally DON'T MATTER. Like the one about the pink globe next to the blue globe - this isn't an issue? People that openly slate and throw hate-speech are the issues and people that attack anyone for having a different belief (including very extreme transgender sympathsies (completely wrong word)) are the issues.

There's less and less open debate in the world because no matter what you say you are a hater, a racist, a sexist, a homophobe. We need more progressive, open, accepting debate and maybe things will move. This won't happen with bickering and closed minds.

[-:Undertaker:-]

What an incredibly weird thing to deduce from this thread.

Bottom line is we should all want to be more social progressive in our standpoints regardless of our disagreements. The issue stems with those afraid of (or quite frankly don't want to) change their views. Some people are so closed-minded about any change to society that we end up moving nowhere or end up having a very divided society which never ends well.

But the bottom line is that many of us do not want so-called 'social progressive' changes aka cultural marxism. As small-c conservatives, we're quite happy calling males men and females women. We're content with marriage being one man and one woman as it has been for hundreds of years. We're appalled that the killing of an unborn child is referred to as the right of a woman to do. We're disgusted when criminals are not punished for wrongdoing.

The huge divisions in society are coming from the Left who are literally using tumblr now as a guide on how to run society. From pulling down our statues and trashing our heritage and history to teaching young children about gay sex - the pull to the fringes is only coming from one side and it certainly isn't the side I am sitting on. We're not close-minded, we simply disagree.

[FlyingJesus]

It is closed minded when you disagree with something or want to force things to be a certain way "just because" or to avoid change in general

[-:Undertaker:-]

It is closed minded when you disagree with something or want to force things to be a certain way "just because" or to avoid change in general

Well thanks for clarifying that for me, luckily that doesn't apply to anything I have said. :)

[Joe]

I'm sorry it's just beyond me that conservatives would rather it be "their way" rather than allow others, who may have different values, to be happy and more free with their life.

It's just such a fucking annoying thing to hear from you. It's a "my way or no way" and I genuinely can't stand it and stripped down it's such a bratty behaviour.

[-:Undertaker:-]

I'm sorry it's just beyond me that conservatives would rather it be "their way" rather than allow others, who may have different values, to be happy and more free with their life.

But it's you lot who are the ones forcing everybody else to go along with your values.

A Christian baker taken to court for refusing to bake a cake. Hotel owners prosecuted for not wanting a gay couple sleep in the same room of their property. Forcing people to sign up to Equality & Diversity in jobs. Taking people to court for saying they believe homosexuality is immoral. Trying to get a Professor in Canada fired for refusing to call males by female pronouns. Teaching our children gay sex whether the parents want it taught or not.

You all go on about tolerance so much but what about tolerance for people with a different opinion?

[Joe]

But it's you lot who are the ones forcing everybody else to go along with your values.

A Christian baker taken to court for refusing to bake a cake. Hotel owners prosecuted for not wanting a gay couple sleep in the same room of their property. Forcing people to sign up to Equality & Diversity in jobs. Taking people to court for saying they believe homosexuality is immoral. Trying to get a Professor in Canada fired for refusing to call males by female pronouns. Teaching our children gay sex whether the parents want it taught or not.

You all go on about tolerance so much but what about tolerance for people with a different opinion?

I feel like you are mixing things up. I see being progressive as people dressing and being who they please, having sex with who they want and marrying who they want. I feel like a woman can abort her baby when she wants as long as it's safe for her. I, however, think there is a VERY LEFT LIBERAL side which is bringing down the progressive hopefuls as we're tarnished with the same brush. The baker is absolutely ridiculous as is the hotel as it's their business so their rules (but what is and what isn't discrimiation is for another day!). The gay sex in schools is a tricky one and its a grey area I'd definetly avoid.

But I do completely agree with the homosexuality to court one you mentioned. It's hate speech at the end of the day and it's very obvious we do not have freedom of speech in this country at all.

So, I partially agree with you but feel like you're tarnishing everyone with the same brush. I'm not part of the liberal left who think such extreme changes - I'm just a centre grounded young person who thinks you should be able to love and shag what you want!

edit: i'm pretty tired and cba to go correct where i've blatantly repeated myself and made terrible spag errors

[-:Undertaker:-]

No that's fair enough - if you respect my right to disagree along with my property rights then there's no reason why, despite having huge differences, people can't get along. It's like transgenderism - I think it's completely wrong, but that doesn't mean I would be nasty to a transgender. It's when people like me are forced to go along with it that it becomes an assault on my freedoms and rights.

Ultimately though most people aren't libertarians and many don't accept that line of thinking so my resolve now is to fight via the law just as the Left has on these issues. Whether it's stopping/repealing gay 'marriage' or this transgender in the military ban.

[Joe]

No that's fair enough - if you respect my right to disagree along with my property rights then there's no reason why, despite having huge differences, people can't get along. It's like transgenderism - I think it's completely wrong, but that doesn't mean I would be nasty to a transgender. It's when people like me are forced to go along with it that it becomes an assault on my freedoms and rights.

Ultimately though most people aren't libertarians and many don't accept that line of thinking so my resolve now is to fight via the law just as the Left has on these issues. Whether it's stopping/repealing gay 'marriage' or this transgender in the military ban.


I would challenge you, like I have, but will still accept that you have your view and I have mine. The issue is with those who cannot do the walking away bit after the challenge - that's what stops real progression from happening.

My only issue is the fact you will still go ahead and try and stop those from marrying who they want, or a transgender person serving in the military. That's what baffles me. It doesn't affect you so why would you fight it?

Surely there is bigger and better issues to sort out than stopping what still is a minority from being less divided in society?

[-:Undertaker:-]

I would challenge you, like I have, but will still accept that you have your view and I have mine. The issue is with those who cannot do the walking away bit after the challenge - that's what stops real progression from happening.

My only issue is the fact you will still go ahead and try and stop those from marrying who they want, or a transgender person serving in the military. That's what baffles me. It doesn't affect you so why would you fight it?

Surely there is bigger and better issues to sort out than stopping what still is a minority from being less divided in society?

I fight it because ultimately it does effect me and people like me with the examples I gave earlier.

It really hit home for me once when I was sitting in a guest lecture on free speech by an Oxford Professor, and halfway through a member of Humberside Police stood up and basically gave a talk on LGBT and how we ought to report any offensive speech. It was absolutely chilling to hear and that really spurs me on to fight these people all the way and never give in.

[Joe]

I would challenge you, like I have, but will still accept that you have your view and I have mine. The issue is with those who cannot do the walking away bit after the challenge - that's what stops real progression from happening.

My only issue is the fact you will still go ahead and try and stop those from marrying who they want, or a transgender person serving in the military. That's what baffles me. It doesn't affect you so why would you fight it?

Surely there is bigger and better issues to sort out than stopping what still is a minority from being less divided in society?

For me it stems down to being a fellow human. Surely you want someone who you share the heavy majority of your genes with - a cousin or whatever of mankind which we all really are - to have the same rights to be HAPPY as you. This isn't that they are shoving their gay in your face or wanting to be another gender but it's simply a happiness thing.

If honestly someone told me if I could make people happier by just letting same sex marriage happen without backlash then it'd be the simplest choice in the world.

I feel like your type of thinking is archaic which obviously fits the conservative label because essentially conservatism is "old ways the best way" but the old way saw hard rooted racism at the core of society and homosexuals demonised for their own happiness.

I completely respect the fact you do not agree with it and we share some of the same opinions on some of the ridiculous liberalistic items in the news and on reddit I see, but the difference is I will not fight something I don't agree with because it's not something effecting me. Something that directly targets my life and the way I live day to day will be fought with tooth and nail. But to say you'd sit there, disagree with allowing two people to be happy that are different to you and happily say it's something you'd like to "fight for"? You certainly have the wrong priorities.

[FlyingJesus]

There is an enormous difference between having an opposing opinion about how to live your life and actually wanting things to be illegal because you don't like it. Having transgender people in the military doesn't infringe on anyone's rights unless you believe it's your right to force people out of the public service job they want

By all means, be as edgy and offensive as you want, but don't expect people to just sit there and agree when you demand freedom of speech while in the same breath advocating against actual life changing freedoms

[dbgtz]

Not fussed as long as requirements and standards aren't lowered to fill some meaningless quota.

On a side note, does anyone else not see some irony in people supporting this but are OK with Trump being lazy and obese which are far more significant issues?

[AgnesIO]

balls and penis require sperm to sexually function, as a woman needs to also have her own fluids downstairs. Where is that gonna come from?

What a stupid answer.

One does not simply "get AIDS" from a procedure, having sex etcetera... learn about the disease, then discuss it like a big boy.

[MightyMagician]

What a stupid answer.

One does not simply "get AIDS" from a procedure, having sex etcetera... learn about the disease, then discuss it like a big boy.

Except that if a transgender wanted legitimate children, they'd need the body matter to do it. Since their anatomical structures were born as one gender, merely becoming the other wouldn't give them a free ticket to create the opposite DNA. They'd need to have the fluids of another person, and that would carry a high risk of HIV infection.

[FlyingJesus]

Create... opposite... DNA...

[AgnesIO]

Except that if a transgender wanted legitimate children, they'd need the body matter to do it. Since their anatomical structures were born as one gender, merely becoming the other wouldn't give them a free ticket to create the opposite DNA. They'd need to have the fluids of another person, and that would carry a high risk of HIV infection.

Holy crap, we are getting somewhere! The man has finally identified that you become infected with HIV, not AIDS!!!

P.S. your argument is still embarrassing, but you've made progress. Well done, you've reached second grade.