WYOO Gender X ?! Non defined genders

[YellowBelli]

What’s your opinion on putting a childs gender as X on a birth certificate? It’s in place in some US states and tbh it makes my head hurt! Parent’s can now choose to ignore their child is male or female and declare them as neutral gender “X” because they believe labelling a child male or female creates limitations to their life decisions.

I think the worlds gone mad. What’s your opinion?

[LUCPIX]

https://i.imgur.com/Rd3VdZR.jpg

Then what will happen? Will the children be able to choose their gender at some point of their lives, more or less as we do in the beginning of an RPG game?

[-:Undertaker:-]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jfozNGQM8xo

What's even more crazy is some of these trans and gender lunatics now are claiming it's discrimination if you don't sleep with them, ie a straight male refusing to sleep with another male who pretends to be a woman. That's now discrimination, apparently.

And has anyone ever noticed the massive hole in their warped logic? It's claimed gender is a social construction yada yada you've heard it all but then they'll tell you that Terry is changing to Tammy because he has 'always known' he was a woman. How can he always have known if gender is purely a social construction? It's a load of absolute bollocks!

XX = Female/Woman
XY = Male/Man

End of story.

[Charlie]

I don't see the problem with it. Stereotyping based on gender annoys the hell out of me, why do girls have one selection of stuff and boys have another? We should let people be who they want to be and stop telling children that they can't have, play with, wear & whatever else something because it's for another gender. If I ever have kids, I'd probably do something similar and raise them more neutral, allow them to enjoy whatever they want and decide for themselves, I'm not going to put restrictions on them simply because society seems to think that's the normal thing to do.

[YellowBelli]

https://i.imgur.com/Rd3VdZR.jpg


Omg ahahaha love it!

It’s just bonkers isnt it?! I’ll be teaching my children to be proud of who they are. The next generation is going to be seriously confused if all this hoo-ha keeps up!

[FlyingJesus]

It doesn't make any sense on medical records. Sure, call yourself what you like (although realistically, if you believe that any/all genders can do anything they like then why would it make a difference?) but one of the most important tenets of the legitmate equality movement - ie: not those who just scream lots on tumblr - is that gender and sex are different things. On medical records it's vitaly important to have your biological sex noted, and not at all important to have your chosen labels. In an emergency a doctor will want to know your blood type, but your favourite pizza topping will be of absolutely no consequence

[lawrawrrr]

I am so absolutely non transphobic but I think this is ridiculous. All power to individuals making a choice to change their gender identity records when they're old enough to make an informed consent but this is mostly about medical records at birth surely which is... one or the other...

babies don't have any concept of gender identity so how can they make a decision to be against the assigned-at-birth norm when they have no concept of them.

raise children to do what they want though and not limit them by their gender stereotypes

[Reality]

This is somewhat extreme. I support the gender-neutral movements, however, medically you are born biologically either male or female there's no neutrality in this, you either have XX or XY you cannot change that genetic. Sexuality wise, you can identify however you wish and this is absolutely acceptable.

Similar to lawrawrrr; has mentioned, a baby will not even start to comprehend the idea of gender for another 5 or 6 years, and aforementioned, I do then support that if when the said person grows up and identifies as neutral, gay, straight, lesbian etc, then there should not be grounds for discrimination the should be free to identify and express themselves as they wish.

Similarly to what FlyingJesus; has mentioned it is medically vital that a DR would need to identify your blood type, or even your sex to determine potential causes to your illness, or how to best your cause of treatment.

The major misconception in today's society is the difference between gender and sexuality; the lines between these too often become blurred or are misunderstood. Although this is a good idea, practically this isn't going to take off I would presume.

[YellowBelli]

Another view I don't understand is ditching Boys and Girls departments in clothing stores. I believe John Lewis is the UK announced they were getting rid of the division, I'm not sure if that went ahead and I cba to google it at the moment. Surely we would still need a male and female section though? I mean, I want to wear a dress and I highly doubt any of you guys will be visiting John Lewis this weekend to try on dresses..

And just FYI, I have no problem with any male that wants to wear a dress! I just cant imagine it becoming common practice...!!!!

[FlyingJesus]

I've been known to wear a dress or two in my time, but having male and female sections still makes sense because the body shapes are radically different and so is the sizing

[Joe]

Also, in terms of basic categorisation, it's so much easier being able to look for a male model poster and know that this is the area where my possible clothes will be. It's all a bit silly.

[Reality]

Also, in terms of basic categorisation, it's so much easier being able to look for a male model poster and know that this is the area where my possible clothes will be. It's all a bit silly.

This is quite far-fetched. Just because a store is getting rid of gendered sections doesn't necessarily mean that the stores are going to start mixing what is currently 'female' and 'male' clothing together, they'll most likely keep them how they are but just their marketing and posters in far more strategic ways in making sure that they follow on their 'gender-netural' approach.


Another view I don't understand is ditching Boys and Girls departments in clothing stores. I believe John Lewis is the UK announced they were getting rid of the division, I'm not sure if that went ahead and I cba to google it at the moment. Surely we would still need a male and female section though? I mean, I want to wear a dress and I highly doubt any of you guys will be visiting John Lewis this weekend to try on dresses..

And just FYI, I have no problem with any male that wants to wear a dress! I just cant imagine it becoming common practice...!!!!

I don't think it's about guys wearing dresses. The principal of removing gendered clothing sections in stores it just to encourage the diversity in choice for those who may then identify as gender-netural, non-binary etc - which in reality is a larger step than putting gender-netural on a birth certificate, as while that person maybe on a piece of paper be 'netural' the on-going struggles for those who currently identify as gender-netural or gay, lesbian etc still face some of the same discrimination as was seen decades before. Thus, with major department stores taking the initative to start the 'trend' into open their diveristy to a whole range of consumers and potential clients, they're going to take a large section of the market and ultimately add to a niche in their USP. Not only this, it shows aforementioned, society is starting to come more in-line with and understand what is starting to become more widely acceptaed in our society - which is the drastic changes in sexuality.

The idea of a gender-neutral clothing section is honestly one of the better ones to take, it makes a direct impact in society and shows that clothing stores are taking a stand against the discrimination and marginalisation of those who are considered minorties. This is just a similar stance to Toys 'r Us who have scrapped their gendered toys sections for many years now.

[YellowBelli]

I don't think it's about guys wearing dresses. The principal of removing gendered clothing sections in stores it just to encourage the diversity in choice for those who may then identify as gender-netural, non-binary etc - which in reality is a larger step than putting gender-netural on a birth certificate, as while that person maybe on a piece of paper be 'netural' the on-going struggles for those who currently identify as gender-netural or gay, lesbian etc still face some of the same discrimination as was seen decades before. Thus, with major department stores taking the initative to start the 'trend' into open their diveristy to a whole range of consumers and potential clients, they're going to take a large section of the market and ultimately add to a niche in their USP. Not only this, it shows aforementioned, society is starting to come more in-line with and understand what is starting to become more widely acceptaed in our society - which is the drastic changes in sexuality.

The idea of a gender-neutral clothing section is honestly one of the better ones to take, it makes a direct impact in society and shows that clothing stores are taking a stand against the discrimination and marginalisation of those who are considered minorties. This is just a similar stance to Toys 'r Us who have scrapped their gendered toys sections for many years now.

Gosh I think it's far more extreme putting gender neutral on a birth certificate then removing the male/female signs in a clothes store. Imagine being a child and hearing you friends call themselves girls or boys and there you are confused as hell because your parents couldn't actually just accept what you are and now you have to make a massive decision on what and who you want to be. I for one would like my little girl to have a stress free childhood, where some of her biggest choices are on the scale of deciding whether to spend her pocket money or save it.

Completely agree that stores are attempting to use the "trend" to make profit though. They have a big way to go, I've not seen any decent ranges yet.

[Reality]

Also, in terms of basic categorisation, it's so much easier being able to look for a male model poster and know that this is the area where my possible clothes will be. It's all a bit silly.


Another view I don't understand is ditching Boys and Girls departments in clothing stores. I believe John Lewis is the UK announced they were getting rid of the division, I'm not sure if that went ahead and I cba to google it at the moment. Surely we would still need a male and female section though? I mean, I want to wear a dress and I highly doubt any of you guys will be visiting John Lewis this weekend to try on dresses..

And just FYI, I have no problem with any male that wants to wear a dress! I just cant imagine it becoming common practice...!!!!


Gosh I think it's far more extreme putting gender neutral on a birth certificate then removing the male/female signs in a clothes store. Imagine being a child and hearing you friends call themselves girls or boys and there you are confused as hell because your parents couldn't actually just accept what you are and now you have to make a massive decision on what and who you want to be. I for one would like my little girl to have a stress free childhood, where some of her biggest choices are on the scale of deciding whether to spend her pocket money or save it.

Completely agree that stores are attempting to use the "trend" to make profit though. They have a big way to go, I've not seen any decent ranges yet.

----------


"...make a massive decision on what and who you want to be"
I feel like this slightly contradicts your own statement.

I wouldn't go as far to say "massive" however, the decision is then given to that individual once they grow up to choose their own personality. Once they become educated in, and understand the concepts and principals of gender and sexuality it is then far more free and liberating for that individual to be able to decide then, how they act, who they want to be with, or even how they style themselves through their clothing inspitations and choices.

That being said, I feel it goes far beyond just clothing and an 'x' mark in the gender-netural box into what we, as a society should be doing to encourage and support each other. School's and educational facilities could be doing far more in terms of educating children in the basic principals of gender and sexuality, especially through sex ed - which is still predominantly taught as being strictly male and female intercourse only. I feel it's far more complicated and there's so many underpinnings and things that need to be, and will continuely need to be done to ensure that society and individuals starts to understand and accept the fact that the times are changing rapidly and that if they cannot accept or understand these motions then they themselves will start to become the marginalised.

IDK... this just my view on it, I've written so many essays since starting Uni last Sept about gender and sexuality as it's one of my core units along side my Criminology degree, so I you may view the opinions as biased, however that's not what the teaching and understanding of sociology and social anthropology teaches.

[YellowBelli]

IDK... this just my view on it, I've written so many essays since starting Uni last Sept about gender and sexuality as it's one of my core units along side my Criminology degree, so I you may view the opinions as biased, however that's not what the teaching and understanding of sociology and social anthropology teaches.

Well exactly that, I'm interested to hear people's view on the topic. I'm very aware my point of view is based more on the baby/child side instead of the challenges a grown up might face, simply because I am a parent and it's not a case of 'when i have children..'. To be fair, the majority of 0-2 year old clothing is very neutral anyway.

p.s I'm sticking to "MASSIVE" decision :D

[FlyingJesus]

Changing how people shop and dress is far more important than allowing people to fudge medical records. If we didn't have such strict views on what's acceptable for men and women to wear (especially men, for whom stepping outside of gender norms can put themselves at risk of real harm rather than being called brave and independent) then people wouldn't be so confused that when they find themselves liking something that's not in their box they end up thinking they must be a better fit in the other box. It's a really sad state of affairs when folk are made to feel like their entire body is wrong just because they like a certain style of shoes, and it's so completely avoidable

[Joe]

This is quite far-fetched. Just because a store is getting rid of gendered sections doesn't necessarily mean that the stores are going to start mixing what is currently 'female' and 'male' clothing together, they'll most likely keep them how they are but just their marketing and posters in far more strategic ways in making sure that they follow on their 'gender-netural' approach.

I didn't think they'd mix up different clothing on the same rail... that would be far-fetched. Struggle to see how they will keep the same categorisation without being accused of categorising...

[Reality]

I didn't think they'd mix up different clothing on the same rail... that would be far-fetched. Struggle to see how they will keep the same categorisation without being accused of categorising...

Fairly simply, removing the words 'female' and 'male' away from the labels, tags, and department signs. This is exactly what Toys 'r us has done and they haven't received any backlash, even though this maybe childrens toys, it will be the parents/adults that would complain, and if they haven't about their child's toys I doubt they will about some fabrics.

[FlyingJesus]

Toys are very different, until you get to adult erotica there aren't certain toys that only fit one or the other. Clothes on the other hand are made for body shape and literally wouldn't fit right, which is why there's such a huge difference in men's fashion design and women's fashion design. Even if you had the same overall design (which would be nice, men's high street fashion is typically pretty boring) there would be structural differences between the male and female one