Britain to launch it's own sat-nav system to rival EU's Galileo

[-:Undertaker:-]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-43891933

Britain to launch it's own sat-nav system to rival EU's Galileo

£5bn project would detatch Britain from EU Galileo system and create an independent GPS satellite


https://i.imgur.com/VXttuaI.jpg


The UK is considering plans to launch a satellite-navigation system as a rival to the EU's Galileo project.

The move comes after the UK was told it would be shut out of key elements of the programme after Brexit.

The UK has spent 1.4bn euros (£1.2bn) on Galileo, which is meant to be Europe's answer to the US GPS system.

Business Secretary Greg Clark is taking legal advice on whether the UK can reclaim the cash, according to the Financial Times.

He told BBC News: "The UK's preference is to remain in Galileo as part of a strong security partnership with Europe.

"If Galileo no longer meets our security requirements and UK industry cannot compete on a fair basis, it is logical to look at alternatives."

The row centres around whether the UK can continue to be trusted with the EU's most sensitive security information after Brexit.

The UK's armed forces were planning to use Galileo to supplement their use of the US GPS system, but press reports suggest they will now be blocked from doing so. The US retains the more accurate and robust GPS signals for its own armed forces.

Graham Turnock, chief executive of the UK Space Agency, said early feasibility work was under way into a UK system, which he said would cost a "lot less" than Galileo, thanks to work already done and "British know-how and ingenuity".

Asked by the BBC's Science Correspondent Jonathan Amos if it could be as much as £5bn, he said "tops".

Officials are also looking into whether the UK could refuse the EU access to ground stations in two British overseas territories - the Falkland Islands and the Ascension Islands.

Good stuff! Canada, Australia and New Zealand should be invited should they wish to wean away from the US system.

Fact is, if it wasn't for those two ridiculous wars on the continent because our neighbours find it so hard to live in peace together, then it would probably have been the Union flag flying on the Moon before the Stars and Stripes.

Never too late.

[dbgtz]

not enough money



Fact is, if it wasn't for those two ridiculous wars on the continent because our neighbours find it so hard to live in peace together, then it would probably have been the Union flag flying on the Moon before the Stars and Stripes.


this makes you sound like a lunatic.

[-:Undertaker:-]

this makes you sound like a lunatic.

Why?

[Hannah]

I'm just getting ready for work so if someone could answer these questions that'd be great:

What are the key elements we're being 'shut out of'?

How does the security change?

What was the overall spend of the Galileo if we paid 1.2 bn into it?

What has Galileo got to do with getting to the Moon first? (I'm not going to get started on conspiracies)

[dbgtz]

Why?

its a simplistic and arrogant vue

plus you basically just said that mainland europe could never keep the peace, but now they (and us) are to the extent they developed a complex system but you wish to disturb said peace interfering with an actual tangible project (unlike the uk moon landing lol)


I'm just getting ready for work so if someone could answer these questions that'd be great:

What are the key elements we're being 'shut out of'?

How does the security change?

What was the overall spend of the Galileo if we paid 1.2 bn into it?

What has Galileo got to do with getting to the Moon first? (I'm not going to get started on conspiracies)

seems we are being shut out of thiS: https://www.gsa.europa.eu/security/prs

10 billion euros in 15 years. there is no genuine reason to believe a uk one would take any less time or money

this has nothing to do with the moon, undertaker just has to shit on mainland europe somehow because he blames the lack of (visible) uk scientific achievement on those countries 70-100 years ago. really, the moon landing was just a dick measuring contest between the usa and soviet union so dont really know why hes bringing it up

[-:Undertaker:-]

its a simplistic and arrogant vue

plus you basically just said that mainland europe could never keep the peace, but now they (and us) are to the extent they developed a complex system but you wish to disturb said peace interfering with an actual tangible project (unlike the uk moon landing lol)

Not really, makes sense - had Britain not involved itself in continental affairs as previously then the British Empire would still be here (thus a superpower) and America would never have been in a position to force us to withdraw from world affairs. Any space race in the 1960s between the USA and USSR would've included us as the third (equal) player.

And isn't that NATO that has done that? In any case, whatever system European nations feel they need to have in order to live together I don't see why that has to include Britain. We're like Russia in relation to the continent: separate.

[dbgtz]

Not really, makes sense - had Britain not involved itself in continental affairs as previously then the British Empire would still be here (thus a superpower) and America would never have been in a position to force us to withdraw from world affairs. Any space race in the 1960s between the USA and USSR would've included us as the third (equal) player.

And isn't that NATO that has done that? In any case, whatever system European nations feel they need to have in order to live together I don't see why that has to include Britain. We're like Russia in relation to the continent: separate.

Doubtful to say the least given a "distaste" for the empire by colonies was always present and would likely have blown up at some point or another (which I believe is why the Soviet Union collapsed among other reasons). It's also fair to say that the cost of maintaining an empire was more than one country.

NATO is unrelated to these scientific outputs. Why do you even bring NATO up? I never said the EU kept the peace but it's clear these scientific projects have a connection with the EU. The fact is, the more money and greater pool of people you have working on projects the greater the potential outcome so, well done. Can't wait to be like a Russian with their great freedom and wealth.

[dbgtz]

interesting somewhat related read
https://medium.com/lapsed-historian/an-empire-of-stars-d6b24f92cbc7

[Thordenhime]

''sounds like a lunatic'' Have you read the vitriol this guy has posted over the past 3 years?

The best moment was last year when he was saying tories were gonna walk the election then he was suddenly silent in the general election thread when they got ruined.

[-:Undertaker:-]

Apparently work has already started according to the Defence Secretary.

993839708202504193


''sounds like a lunatic'' Have you read the vitriol this guy has posted over the past 3 years?

I have always been told on these boards I am somehow being out of step/on the fringe but virtually all the causes I have backed have eventually come around. Ukip won the European Elections in 2014, we forced the Tories to hold a referendum, we won that referendum, I said Scottish independence would become less likely with a Leave vote and it has, and now it's government policy to leave the European Union including Single Market and Customs Union. Not bad for the ravings of a lunatic! ;)


The best moment was last year when he was saying tories were gonna walk the election then he was suddenly silent in the general election thread when they got ruined.

When the Tories led the polls I said they were going to walk it... because they were. Then the polls, which I was the one posting, began to change and so we got the result we ended up with. I was quite pleased if you remember with the government having to rely on the DUP as I felt having to rely on the DUP would keep the government from using a huge majority to water down Brexit.

[alexxxxx]

''sounds like a lunatic'' Have you read the vitriol this guy has posted over the past 3 years?

The best moment was last year when he was saying tories were gonna walk the election then he was suddenly silent in the general election thread when they got ruined.

3 years... try 9 years (at least!) :') me and dan had some arguments on here years and years ago!

in all honesty it sounds like a waste of money but sure why not

[-:Undertaker:-]

So an update.

When I posted this a few months back I wrote "Canada, Australia and New Zealand should be invited should they wish to wean away from the US system." And today I read this from the Financial Times...

http://www.canzukinternational.com/2018/05/uk-considers-five-eyes-space-defence-strategy.html

UK Considers “Five-Eyes” Space Defence Strategy

The UK is considering launching a ‘five-eyes’ alternative to the EU’s Galileo satellite project as it announces its first space defence strategy ahead of its departure from the European Union.



https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/a/ae/Flag_of_the_United_Kingdom.svg/125px-Flag_of_the_United_Kingdom.svg.png https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/d/d9/Flag_of_Canada_%28Pantone%29.svg/125px-Flag_of_Canada_%28Pantone%29.svg.png https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/b/b9/Flag_of_Australia.svg/125px-Flag_of_Australia.svg.png https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/3/3e/Flag_of_New_Zealand.svg/125px-Flag_of_New_Zealand.svg.png


Five-eyes is an intelligence-sharing alliance between Australia, New Zealand, the US, and Canada. Two Whitehall officials told the Financial Times that Australia, which last week announced plans for a National Space Agency, had indicated a potential interest in a UK satellite project.

As part of its Defence Space Strategy, the UK government has said it’s examining how it can work with historical allies in the five-eyes partnership to protect and defend its space interests.

Nice to see Whitehall picking up on my suggestions, again. (sunglasses)

[dbgtz]

seems like a trustworthy and unbiased source
unlike that darn bbc

struggling to even find another source for this

[-:Undertaker:-]

seems like a trustworthy and unbiased source
unlike that darn bbc

struggling to even find another source for this

https://www.ft.com/content/bb6bae54-5c3f-11e8-ad91-e01af256df68

Not sure if you can read as the FT usually has pay wall.

[dbgtz]

I cannot

regardless if it is true, it is better news than just doing it ourselves which is completely unrealistic
downside to eu is much greater travel costs and potentially slower progress, also not sure what current infrastructure is like for these kind of projects
upside to eu is much more empty land to play with which could be interesting (also having australia involved could be good given their proximity to the equator, though I think EU stuff is launched from French Guyana anyway)

[-:Undertaker:-]

I cannot

regardless if it is true, it is better news than just doing it ourselves which is completely unrealistic
downside to eu is much greater travel costs and potentially slower progress, also not sure what current infrastructure is like for these kind of projects
upside to eu is much more empty land to play with which could be interesting (also having australia involved could be good given their proximity to the equator, though I think EU stuff is launched from French Guyana anyway)

Why is it completely unrealistic to do something ourselves?

Britain is the world's 6th biggest economy.

[dbgtz]

Why is it completely unrealistic to do something ourselves?

Britain is the world's 6th biggest economy.

because, as you like to constantly say, it's not all about money otherwise why wouldn't Japan, Germany, France etc. do it alone?
lol do you think about anything more than money!!!!!

[-:Undertaker:-]

because, as you like to constantly say, it's not all about money otherwise why wouldn't Japan, Germany, France etc. do it alone?
lol do you think about anything more than money!!!!!

No but you seem to have some strange opposition to this country doing things for itself. Why?

If it isn't about money then what exactly is it about? Lack of confidence? I'm puzzled.

[dbgtz]

No but you seem to have some strange opposition to this country doing things for itself. Why?

If it isn't about money then what exactly is it about? Lack of confidence? I'm puzzled.

not being funny but do you have any idea what actually goes into stuff like this
i dont understand how you think that a project which took ~20 years with the resources of many countries can be done at the fraction of the cost, fraction of the time with a fraction of the resources in a country which consistently approves projects which go way over the projected time and money
it would eventually get done but these projections are bogus and probably designed simply to appease people like yourself

[-:Undertaker:-]

There's that defeatism again, a bad case of Suez syndrome.

[dbgtz]

You having a bubble

[dbgtz]

this aged well

[dbgtz]

no comment on the project being cancelled -:Undertaker:-;? you're usually so vocal