Boris "fuck business" Johnson

[dbgtz]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-44618154


Airbus, BMW and Siemens have warned about the impact on their UK-based operations if the UK leaves the EU next March without any agreement.

no deal is better than a bad deal!!

Ireland issue still undecided
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-44574039

but at least some progress was made in december:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-42277040


Guarantee that there will be "no hard border" between Northern Ireland and the Republic and that the "constitutional and economic integrity of the United Kingdom" will be maintained.


https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/apr/20/eu-rejects-irish-border-proposals-and-says-brexit-talks-could-still-fail
oh...



EU citizens living in the UK and vice versa will have their rights to live, work and study protected. The agreement includes reunification rights for relatives who do not live in the UK to join them in their host country in the future


https://www.city.ac.uk/news/2018/june/eu-citizens-what-settled-status-after-brexit-really-means
for a fee



Financial settlement - No specific figure is in the document but Downing Street sources say it will be between £35bn and £39bn, including budget contributions during a two-year "transition" period after March 2019


https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-divorce-bill-ten-billion-higher-cost-money-treasure-estimate-meg-hillier-a8417961.html
"up to £50billion"

at least it looks secure to make a FTD with the US after they just imposed tariffs on us or with India who want freer movement of people

and then the banks at risk
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/jun/27/brexit-bank-contracts-worth-trillions-at-risk-says-finance-watchdog
who needs those though

but nissan, the company used to demonstrate brexit wouldnt kill investment, isn't looking particularly confident right now
http://www.cityam.com/288288/carlos-ghosn-says-nissan-dark-over-brexit

On top of that, not much hope from US economic peeps at the embassy
https://twitter.com/davemacladd/status/1011636382786314240


imagine if all this time and money spent went into something useful like science
which is still in the shitter
thanks brexit

[-:Undertaker:-]

All of the same corporations making the same threats they did over us joining the Euro and what would happen if we voted Leave. I have to say, it did make me laugh last week when Airbus said they would move production of wings (which is what my uncle does) if we left without a deal....... so where did they say they would move it to? Errrr non-EU China and the USA. Rightio then. :')

In terms of a deal, I would like a sensible deal just to have things run more smoothly... but if the EU wants to play silly by using things like the Irish border to try and force us to stay under its rule, then the hell with them. 275 days left anyway - my suspicion is that as autumn approaches, national governments will tell the European Commission to grow up and a last minute, sensible deal will be had.

A friend the other day (remainer) was telling me he was worried. I said, worried about what!? I'm relaxed af.


https://media1.giphy.com/media/A6aHBCFqlE0Rq/giphy-downsized.gif

[FlyingJesus]

Boris made a quick and stupid response to a quick and stupid question, shock horror.

Irish border is a big problem, can't honestly see how there can be no checks (especially on cargo) but that's not necessarily an awful thing.

Checking that people aren't here just to commit crimes is not a bad thing. If you can't pass £65 and a background check then what are you planning to contribute to the country?

Indy article is talking about costs that we will have within the country (like the aforementioned Irish border controls) but dresses it up as being part of the "divorce bill". Deliberately misleading.

Possible bank problems after Brussels fails to implement proper policies. Potentially a good thing that we won't be relying on them in the long future.

Nissan bloke is about the only reasonable person in the country by the sounds of it, stating openly that he doesn't know what will happen. If only everyone could be going into this thinking about the things we do know rather than what we don't know.

The people in the last video are guessing ("it's gonna tank!!!!!!!!") or simply don't know what cause and effect are. "Inflation went up from 0.5% to 3%" yeah having been at that insanely low level because of fuel price wars. We have about the same levels as the US right now, and ours has been pretty level recently while the Eurozone levels have suddenly spiked.

[Zak]

I doubt that much will change. It's certainly not something I lose sleep over. The general discontent in the UK will not subside. Unfortunately, Brexit will not solves their problems. It's a shame really.

[dbgtz]

All of the same corporations making the same threats they did over us joining the Euro and what would happen if we voted Leave. I have to say, it did make me laugh last week when Airbus said they would move production of wings (which is what my uncle does) if we left without a deal....... so where did they say they would move it to? Errrr non-EU China and the USA. Rightio then. :')

Foreign investment in the UK at it's lowest since 2011 (no data before then)
https://inews.co.uk/news/uk/foreign-investment-in-the-uk-has-fallen-92-since-2016-why/
rather clickbaity title which it does go on to explain but the pdf in the article is still valid

call it what you want but they explain themselves fairly well http://www.airbus.com/company/worldwide-presence/uk.html#Economy which is more risk/outcome assessments than this government has (officially) published, you know the one which claims could lead to food and medicine shortages
doesn't even sound like the issue is brexit, but piss poor government which is actually what this thread was mostly meant to be about (because they are doing a shit job)


In terms of a deal, I would like a sensible deal just to have things run more smoothly... but if the EU wants to play silly by using things like the Irish border to try and force us to stay under its rule, then the hell with them. 275 days left anyway - my suspicion is that as autumn approaches, national governments will tell the European Commission to grow up and a last minute, sensible deal will be had.

Have you ever considered that the EU (which is a group of member states not a sentient being ruling over like a dictator) does not want trouble in Ireland as this is just another issue? It's not silly to not want troubles again and if you really value human life as much as you claim then you would surely agree. The silly thing would be to have a


A friend the other day (remainer) was telling me he was worried. I said, worried about what!? I'm relaxed af.


https://media1.giphy.com/media/A6aHBCFqlE0Rq/giphy-downsized.gif

well you'll be sunning it in spain whilst i have to live with your decision :)


Checking that people aren't here just to commit crimes is not a bad thing. If you can't pass £65 and a background check then what are you planning to contribute to the country?

Presumably more than a one off payment of £65. I'm not against any checks, but to be asked to pay to stay on top of all the flak a lot of EU migrants seem to get is questionable.



Indy article is talking about costs that we will have within the country (like the aforementioned Irish border controls) but dresses it up as being part of the "divorce bill". Deliberately misleading.


Fair, but still one off costs occurring as a result of leaving which wouldn't have happened otherwise.


Possible bank problems after Brussels fails to implement proper policies. Potentially a good thing that we won't be relying on them in the long future.

What are you on about it's literally happening because of Brexit
there would be no issue otherwise


Nissan bloke is about the only reasonable person in the country by the sounds of it, stating openly that he doesn't know what will happen. If only everyone could be going into this thinking about the things we do know rather than what we don't know.

mostly posted this because the nissan investment sometime ago was hailed as a "brexit success" or whatever yet this nissan guy is very much still on the fence


The people in the last video are guessing ("it's gonna tank!!!!!!!!") or simply don't know what cause and effect are. "Inflation went up from 0.5% to 3%" yeah having been at that insanely low level because of fuel price wars. We have about the same levels as the US right now, and ours has been pretty level recently while the Eurozone levels have suddenly spiked.

But they weren't saying it because inflation went up, but the environment in which it went up.

[FlyingJesus]

"Britain’s chief financial watchdog has warned that contracts worth trillions of pounds between UK and European Union banks remain at risk of collapse following Brexit, after Brussels’ failure to implement protective legislation."

Obviously the situation wouldn't have arisen without Brexit, but that doesn't mean Brexit as a phenomenon is to blame when Brussels refuses to do their job. That's like saying that the Turpin kids are to blame for all their troubles because they wanted to escape the torture house

[-:Undertaker:-]

This came out today which is related in regards to economic forecasts and Brexit.

1013743397541236736

I love to say it - but I told you so. ;)


Foreign investment in the UK at it's lowest since 2011 (no data before then)
https://inews.co.uk/news/uk/foreign-investment-in-the-uk-has-fallen-92-since-2016-why/
rather clickbaity title which it does go on to explain but the pdf in the article is still valid

call it what you want but they explain themselves fairly well http://www.airbus.com/company/worldwide-presence/uk.html#Economy which is more risk/outcome assessments than this government has (officially) published, you know the one which claims could lead to food and medicine shortages
doesn't even sound like the issue is brexit, but piss poor government which is actually what this thread was mostly meant to be about (because they are doing a shit job)

What puzzles me since the referendum is that continuity-Remain still haven't come to their senses that people didn't vote Leave based on GDP, economic forecasts and the wishes of big business - all the research done since has shown that sovereignty/immigration were the key drivers and that for many it was a cultural decision rather than an economic one. I genuinely find it strange that you're essentially re-running what you did through the referendum when it clearly failed to address the issues & concerns people had over European integration.

Like I said during the referendum though, let's say the claims made again by Airbus are true. I would still vote Leave a thousand times over even if it meant all these economics forecasts were going to come true. Why? Because I voted based on principles like sovereignty, independence - not materialistic forecasts from George Osborne's Treasury.

Until continuity-Remain come to realise this, the gaping gulf between both sides is going to be with us.


Have you ever considered that the EU (which is a group of member states not a sentient being ruling over like a dictator) does not want trouble in Ireland as this is just another issue? It's not silly to not want troubles again and if you really value human life as much as you claim then you would surely agree. The silly thing would be to have a

I obviously don't want the Troubles again however I also won't accept that this country needs to accept foreign rule over it in order to potentially avoid upsetting some Irish republican terrorists. I don't believe British foreign policy and domestic policy should be designed purely to please and cater for Gerry Adams and his gang who in my opinion should have been hanging over the gallows many years ago.


well you'll be sunning it in spain whilst i have to live with your decision :)

I just don't know what you are so scared of. The economy is doing pretty well.

1013496494840786944

What exactly is it that drives you to support European integration with Britain in it? Genuine question.

[dbgtz]

This came out today which is related in regards to economic forecasts and Brexit.

1013743397541236736

I love to say it - but I told you so. ;)


What are you on about? Trump has just imposed tariffs on us and others. Hardly screams "up for a deal".
did you actually watch the video, they pretty much agreed on Brexit being a bad idea and Obama said it in private initially. DC may have asked him to make it public but that doesn't make it untrue



What puzzles me since the referendum is that continuity-Remain still haven't come to their senses that people didn't vote Leave based on GDP, economic forecasts and the wishes of big business - all the research done since has shown that sovereignty/immigration were the key drivers and that for many it was a cultural decision rather than an economic one. I genuinely find it strange that you're essentially re-running what you did through the referendum when it clearly failed to address the issues & concerns people had over European integration.

Like I said during the referendum though, let's say the claims made again by Airbus are true. I would still vote Leave a thousand times over even if it meant all these economics forecasts were going to come true. Why? Because I voted based on principles like sovereignty, independence - not materialistic forecasts from George Osborne's Treasury.

Until continuity-Remain come to realise this, the gaping gulf between both sides is going to be with us.


What about materialistic items such as food and medicine? As I believe I mentioned, this was more to highlight the piss poor government and how they're risking basic items such as this and also the business of Airbus for being so fucking unpredictable and not securing basic "things" such as this.

Not to say I think it's a good idea in the slightest in the current climate. Perhaps you need to accept that a 52-48 result doesn't justify hard Brexit like this, screwing over thousands of people in the process.
I mean, look at polls
https://whatukthinks.org/eu/questions/if-there-was-a-referendum-on-britains-membership-of-the-eu-how-would-you-vote-2/ oh looks like remains done it
https://whatukthinks.org/eu/questions/if-a-second-eu-referendum-were-held-today-how-would-you-vote/ this one too
http://uk.businessinsider.com/britain-bregret-theresa-may-soft-brexit-2018-5 and these 14
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-poll-voters-eu-leave-wrong-theresa-may-negotiations-deal-yougov-a8383826.html here too


I obviously don't want the Troubles again however I also won't accept that this country needs to accept foreign rule over it in order to potentially avoid upsetting some Irish republican terrorists. I don't believe British foreign policy and domestic policy should be designed purely to please and cater for Gerry Adams and his gang who in my opinion should have been hanging over the gallows many years ago.


right
but what do you suggest doing about it?


I just don't know what you are so scared of. The economy is doing pretty well.

1013496494840786944

What exactly is it that drives you to support European integration with Britain in it? Genuine question.

more people employed != better economy otherwise automation wouldn't be a thing.
even looking at raw numbers, uk population was 63.23m in 2010, 66.57 now which makes your figures a touch less impressive (obviously these aren't all adults but difficult to get exact # adults)
and that's ignoring the boom in dodgy self employment and shoddy pay

[-:Undertaker:-]

What are you on about? Trump has just imposed tariffs on us and others. Hardly screams "up for a deal".
did you actually watch the video, they pretty much agreed on Brexit being a bad idea and Obama said it in private initially. DC may have asked him to make it public but that doesn't make it untrue

If you look at what President Trump is doing in regards to tariffs, he's standing up for America. That's something we'll be able to do when we're out of the EU Customs Union and able to set our own tariffs on goods. That's no guarantee of course that our leaders will stand up for Britain, but at least I can vote them out of office which is something that cannot be said for the European Commission who currently decide our customs and trade policy.

The very fact we're talking about tariffs and trade deals nowadays shows the shift Brexit is already producing - something that used to be out of our hands in the democratic sense is now coming back, which means Parliament matters once again. It's great for democracy that we'll (in future) be able to decide our own trade and customs. I'm very pleased now when I see all these discussions taking place, it shows politics actually matters again.


What about materialistic items such as food and medicine? As I believe I mentioned, this was more to highlight the piss poor government and how they're risking basic items such as this and also the business of Airbus for being so fucking unpredictable and not securing basic "things" such as this.

Why on earth would food and medicine somehow halt? :')


Not to say I think it's a good idea in the slightest in the current climate. Perhaps you need to accept that a 52-48 result doesn't justify hard Brexit like this, screwing over thousands of people in the process.
I mean, look at polls
https://whatukthinks.org/eu/questions/if-there-was-a-referendum-on-britains-membership-of-the-eu-how-would-you-vote-2/ oh looks like remains done it
https://whatukthinks.org/eu/questions/if-a-second-eu-referendum-were-held-today-how-would-you-vote/ this one too
http://uk.businessinsider.com/britain-bregret-theresa-may-soft-brexit-2018-5 and these 14
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-poll-voters-eu-leave-wrong-theresa-may-negotiations-deal-yougov-a8383826.html here too

There's no such thing really as a hard Brexit. On the ballot paper it said do you want to Leave the EU or Remain in the EU, it didn't have in brackets next to Leave (But remain subject to the ECJ, to EU regulation and EU tariffs). I don't know anyone who voted Leave but who wanted to remain bound to EU law, EU judges and EU customs duties.

We had the choice between Cameron's "reformed" (lol) EU and leaving it entirely, we chose Leave.


right
but what do you suggest doing about it?

I suggest Swiss-Norway style border controls between this kingdom and the republic. Issue solved.


more people employed != better economy otherwise automation wouldn't be a thing.
even looking at raw numbers, uk population was 63.23m in 2010, 66.57 now which makes your figures a touch less impressive (obviously these aren't all adults but difficult to get exact # adults)
and that's ignoring the boom in dodgy self employment and shoddy pay

Look, none of your predictions are coming true that's why the numbers aren't shifting in your favour like you possibly expected by now. That said, like I stated earlier even if there was some economic dislocation I still don't think you'd see much of a change anyway because most people voted on values like sovereignty/independence rather than GDP numbers which don't mean anything to the vast majority of people. You're all completely wasting your time posting scare stories - didn't work then won't work now.

[dbgtz]

If you look at what President Trump is doing in regards to tariffs, he's standing up for America. That's something we'll be able to do when we're out of the EU Customs Union and able to set our own tariffs on goods. That's no guarantee of course that our leaders will stand up for Britain, but at least I can vote them out of office which is something that cannot be said for the European Commission who currently decide our customs and trade policy.

The very fact we're talking about tariffs and trade deals nowadays shows the shift Brexit is already producing - something that used to be out of our hands in the democratic sense is now coming back, which means Parliament matters once again. It's great for democracy that we'll (in future) be able to decide our own trade and customs. I'm very pleased now when I see all these discussions taking place, it shows politics actually matters again.


I've yet to see any evidence that imposing tariffs is a good thing



Why on earth would food and medicine somehow halt? :')


https://www.parliament.uk/business/committees/committees-a-z/commons-select/health-and-social-care-committee/news/government-response-brexit-medicines-substances-17-19/



There's no such thing really as a hard Brexit. On the ballot paper it said do you want to Leave the EU or Remain in the EU, it didn't have in brackets next to Leave (But remain subject to the ECJ, to EU regulation and EU tariffs). I don't know anyone who voted Leave but who wanted to remain bound to EU law, EU judges and EU customs duties.

We had the choice between Cameron's "reformed" (lol) EU and leaving it entirely, we chose Leave.


Norway? Iceland? Switzerland?



I suggest Swiss-Norway style border controls between this kingdom and the republic. Issue solved.


they both seem to have free movement of goods and people
try again



Look, none of your predictions are coming true that's why the numbers aren't shifting in your favour like you possibly expected by now. That said, like I stated earlier even if there was some economic dislocation I still don't think you'd see much of a change anyway because most people voted on values like sovereignty/independence rather than GDP numbers which don't mean anything to the vast majority of people. You're all completely wasting your time posting scare stories - didn't work then won't work now.

I never said employment would go down
but look at the quality of employment and stop looking at it with such narrow vision jesus

people vote on what they think will benefit them
if this goes to shit and basic resources are threatened, or even if certain peoples immigration cuts don't happen, then people would change their mind and possibly even start rioting
been too long since we had a good riot