10 Days To Go: Speaker blocks Withdrawal Agreement returning to the House of Commons

[-:Undertaker:-]

10 Days To Go: Speaker blocks May's Withdrawal Agreement returning to the House of Commons

Ruling now means government has no answer when EU asks what reason for extension request is


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Well, there's now only ten days to go until Brexit (as the law is currently written) and now the Speaker makes this ruling. I sort of agree with the ruling, but this Speaker decides to apply the rules how he sees fit so he obviously believes it is a way he can force a long extension to Article 50 or Parliament revoking Article 50 and cancelling Brexit.

Of course, it is still in the power of the ERG to collapse the government to prevent any delay. And I pray they do.

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Thoughts?

[FlyingJesus]

He's right there isn't any point in putting the same question to people for a 3rd time - nothing has changed and nothing CAN change because the EU aren't budging on their demands. I don't particularly like Bercow although his tie is lovely but here he is right: there have to be biiiiig changes to the "deal" or it's not worth bringing up again.

[-:Undertaker:-]

@FlyingJesus (https://www.habboxforum.com/member.php?u=24753);

Curious, if you were an MP now, what would you do?

A) Vote for a short June extension (possibly with conditions)
B) Vote for a long 2-year extension (possibly with conditions)
C) Vote for her Deal on a third possible attempt
D) Collapse the government to ensure legal status quo (Leave 29th March 2019)
E) Vote to revoke Article 50


Both my Remainer friends say an extension is pointless as what exactly will change that hasn't already?

[FlyingJesus]

An extension is the same as revoting, nothing will change because nothing can change

[FlyingJesus]

https://newsthump.com/2019/03/18/theresa-mays-latest-brexit-deal-substantively-different-after-being-converted-to-comic-sans lolol

[lawrawrrr]

Like tom I agree it makes total sense for the deal to not be voted on again unless it actually changes!

I guess the issue is that while MPs are voting it down our system doesn't really enable them to say WHY. Same issue as the referendum, people voted no but not WHY no - it would really make a difference I personally think!!

I have a holiday booked in June so can they extend it till after that please thanks

[-:Undertaker:-]

@lawrawrrr (https://www.habboxforum.com/member.php?u=61966); @FlyingJesus (https://www.habboxforum.com/member.php?u=24753);

Looks like No Deal's back on the menu boys. 9 days.

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[FlyingJesus]

Sad times when Peston's making sense, usually hate the guy. So yeah looks like the only way we're having a (pointless) new extension is if May declares yet another GE, which no-one needs right now

[-:Undertaker:-]

So it looks like the EU will offer a short extension on the condition that May's Deal passes before 29th March 2019.

8 days left.

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[FlyingJesus]

If she can pass it surely we don't need an extension

[-:Undertaker:-]

If she can pass it surely we don't need an extension

Apparently the Withdrawal Agreement needs to be followed by multiple Bills for it to function.

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Potentially now a mere 8 days away from getting out of this nightmare when we can end this 44-year living Hell. No more endless negotiations. No more referendums. No more begging. No more being outvoted. No more threats. No more "EU made us do it soz" from our political class.

We'll be like Canada, Australia, New Zealand and 150+ other countries. Independent.

[-:Undertaker:-]

Extended to the 12th of April.

So angry I haven't even the words for it.

650 blocking the votes of over 17 million won't end well. MPs are already being advised not to travel home over safety fears.

[scottish]

Isn't there a petition going around atm to revoke a50 and its caused the govt website to die a few times due to the popularity of it lmao

[lawrawrrr]

while it might make people feel better signing this petition it doesn’t equal a second referendum or even come close to the amount of people who voted for brexit so I’m a bit like errr whatever about it

as for extension I really hope it makes mps reside that it IS NOW ACTUALLY CHOICE between whatever deal is managed or no deal. I don’t think the majority of MPs will effectively vote for no deal. But I suppose if the EU don’t budge it can’t be voted on again after bercow blocked voting on the same thing?

i saw the most amazing analogy yesterday about cakes but I can’t find it again now I’m so mad!!!

[Zak]

What a complete mess.

[scottish]

while it might make people feel better signing this petition it doesn’t equal a second referendum or even come close to the amount of people who voted for brexit so I’m a bit like errr whatever about it

as for extension I really hope it makes mps reside that it IS NOW ACTUALLY CHOICE between whatever deal is managed or no deal. I don’t think the majority of MPs will effectively vote for no deal. But I suppose if the EU don’t budge it can’t be voted on again after bercow blocked voting on the same thing?

i saw the most amazing analogy yesterday about cakes but I can’t find it again now I’m so mad!!!

LEAVER: I want an omelette.

REMAINER: Right. It’s just we haven’t got any eggs.

LEAVER: Yes, we have. There they are. [HE POINTS AT A CAKE]

REMAINER: They’re in the cake.

LEAVER: Yes, get them out of the cake, please.

REMAINER: But we voted in 1975 to put them into a cake.

LEAVER: Yes, but that cake has got icing on it. Nobody said there was going to be icing on it.

REMAINER: Icing is good.

LEAVER: And there are raisins in it. I don’t like raisins. Nobody mentioned raisins. I demand another vote.

DAVID CAMERON ENTERS.

DAVID CAMERON: OK.

DAVID CAMERON SCARPERS.

LEAVER: Right, where’s my omelette?

REMAINER: I told you, the eggs are in the cake.

LEAVER: Well, get them out.

EU: It’s our cake.

JEREMY CORBYN: Yes, get them out now.

REMAINER: I have absolutely no idea how to get them out. Don’t you know how to get them out?

LEAVER: Yes! You just get them out and then you make an omelette.

REMAINER: But how?! Didn’t you give this any thought?

LEAVER: Saboteur! You’re talking eggs down. We could make omelettes before the eggs went into the cake, so there’s no reason why we can’t make them now.

THERESA MAY: It’s OK, I can do it.

REMAINER: How?

THERESA MAY: There was a vote to remove the eggs from the cake, and so the eggs will be removed from the cake.

REMAINER: Yeah, but…

LEAVER: Hang on, if we take the eggs out of the cake, does that mean we don’t have any cake? I didn’t say I didn’t want the cake, just the bits I don’t like.

EU: It’s our cake.

REMAINER: But you can’t take the eggs out of the cake and then still have a cake.

LEAVER: You can. I saw the latest Bake Off and you can definitely make cakes without eggs in them. It’s just that they’re horrible.

REMAINER: Fine. Take the eggs out. See what happens.

LEAVER: It’s not my responsibility to take the eggs out. Get on with it.

REMAINER: Why should I have to come up with some long-winded incredibly difficult chemical process to extract eggs that have bonded at the molecular level to the cake, while somehow still having the cake?

LEAVER: You lost, get over it.

THERESA MAY: By the way, I’ve started the clock on this.

REMAINER: So I assume you have a plan?

THERESA MAY: Actually, back in a bit. Just having another election.

REMAINER: Jeremy, are you going to sort this out?

JEREMY CORBYN: Yes. No. Maybe.

EU: It’s our cake.

LEAVER: Where’s my omelette? I voted for an omelette.

REMAINER: This is ridiculous. This is never going to work. We should have another vote, or at least stop what we’re doing until we know how to get the eggs out of the cake while keeping the bits of the cake that we all like.

LEAVER/MAY/CORBYN: WE HAD A VOTE. STOP SABOTAGING THE WILL OF THE PEOPLE. EGGSIT MEANS EGGSIT.

REMAINER: Fine, I’m moving to France. The cakes are nicer there.

LEAVER: You can’t. We’ve taken your freedom of movement.

[-:Undertaker:-]

More blaming the result when it is those who lost the referendum who have continuously sought to overturn or impede. From the House of Commons to the Civil Service, to the Prime Minister and Cabinet - determined to keep us attached to something we voted to LEAVE. What part of Leave the European Union ☑ is so fucking hard to understand?



REMAINER: Leavers need to tell us what they voted for!

LEAVER: Well we voted fo-

REMAINER: Big red bus! Stupid voters! Old people! Overturn!



It's Remainers who made no Brexit plans prior to the referendum.
It's Remainers who have been negotiating this Deal.
It's Remainers who voted to extend the deadline.


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Anyway the longer this goes on for the more No Deal will become the fait accompli.

[lawrawrrr]

LEAVER: I want an omelette.

REMAINER: Right. It’s just we haven’t got any eggs.

LEAVER: Yes, we have. There they are. [HE POINTS AT A CAKE]

REMAINER: They’re in the cake.

LEAVER: Yes, get them out of the cake, please.

REMAINER: But we voted in 1975 to put them into a cake.

LEAVER: Yes, but that cake has got icing on it. Nobody said there was going to be icing on it.

REMAINER: Icing is good.

LEAVER: And there are raisins in it. I don’t like raisins. Nobody mentioned raisins. I demand another vote.

DAVID CAMERON ENTERS.

DAVID CAMERON: OK.

DAVID CAMERON SCARPERS.

LEAVER: Right, where’s my omelette?

REMAINER: I told you, the eggs are in the cake.

LEAVER: Well, get them out.

EU: It’s our cake.

JEREMY CORBYN: Yes, get them out now.

REMAINER: I have absolutely no idea how to get them out. Don’t you know how to get them out?

LEAVER: Yes! You just get them out and then you make an omelette.

REMAINER: But how?! Didn’t you give this any thought?

LEAVER: Saboteur! You’re talking eggs down. We could make omelettes before the eggs went into the cake, so there’s no reason why we can’t make them now.

THERESA MAY: It’s OK, I can do it.

REMAINER: How?

THERESA MAY: There was a vote to remove the eggs from the cake, and so the eggs will be removed from the cake.

REMAINER: Yeah, but…

LEAVER: Hang on, if we take the eggs out of the cake, does that mean we don’t have any cake? I didn’t say I didn’t want the cake, just the bits I don’t like.

EU: It’s our cake.

REMAINER: But you can’t take the eggs out of the cake and then still have a cake.

LEAVER: You can. I saw the latest Bake Off and you can definitely make cakes without eggs in them. It’s just that they’re horrible.

REMAINER: Fine. Take the eggs out. See what happens.

LEAVER: It’s not my responsibility to take the eggs out. Get on with it.

REMAINER: Why should I have to come up with some long-winded incredibly difficult chemical process to extract eggs that have bonded at the molecular level to the cake, while somehow still having the cake?

LEAVER: You lost, get over it.

THERESA MAY: By the way, I’ve started the clock on this.

REMAINER: So I assume you have a plan?

THERESA MAY: Actually, back in a bit. Just having another election.

REMAINER: Jeremy, are you going to sort this out?

JEREMY CORBYN: Yes. No. Maybe.

EU: It’s our cake.

LEAVER: Where’s my omelette? I voted for an omelette.

REMAINER: This is ridiculous. This is never going to work. We should have another vote, or at least stop what we’re doing until we know how to get the eggs out of the cake while keeping the bits of the cake that we all like.

LEAVER/MAY/CORBYN: WE HAD A VOTE. STOP SABOTAGING THE WILL OF THE PEOPLE. EGGSIT MEANS EGGSIT.

REMAINER: Fine, I’m moving to France. The cakes are nicer there.

LEAVER: You can’t. We’ve taken your freedom of movement.

nah it was just a comment on reddit. The guy said something like

People voted for “cake”, we don’t know what kind of cake. May has presented a lemon drizzle cake but a lot of MPs wanted chocolate cake and some wanted a cake full of razors. Some people have suggested that we could let the people vote on the type of cake they want but honestly there’s too many options and combinations to make that feasible. Then you have the EU who’s offering other cake options too. So May is trying to figure out what cake pleases enough people.

Idk his wording was much better!!

[lawrawrrr]

and once again I think the whole referendum (and our voting system) was flawed because there is a percentage of people who would NOT have voted brexit if no deal was on the table!

[-:Undertaker:-]

and once again I think the whole referendum (and our voting system) was flawed because there is a percentage of people who would NOT have voted brexit if no deal was on the table!

There's also a percentage of Remainers who wouldn't have voted Remain had they known how the European Union would behave and treat us. Similarly there's also a percentage who were scared into it by George Osborne's Treasury predictions that failed to materialise. And a percentage that believed David Cameron's negotiation stopped anymore EU integration, which they would have found out was false.

[lawrawrrr]

There's also a percentage of Remainers who wouldn't have voted Remain had they known how the European Union would behave and treat us. Similarly there's also a percentage who were scared into it by George Osborne's Treasury predictions that failed to materialise.

Thats not the same thing at all, at the moment they voted, there were people who went to the booth and said “I think we are better off being outside of the EU but having a close relationship and deal with them”. Your example is looking hindsight over the last few months.

Let’s be FAIR here Dan, both sides “scared” people into voting a certain way so we can just throw that one off the table too.

[FlyingJesus]

Isn't there a petition going around atm to revoke a50 and its caused the govt website to die a few times due to the popularity of it lmao

More likely crashed because people are faking thousands of entries at a time with scripts. Same happened in 2016 and it was found that there were so many fraudulent "signatures" that it would be pointless trying to sift through and work out the true numbers. Basically the fanatics sabotaged themselves and are doing it again :P


and once again I think the whole referendum (and our voting system) was flawed because there is a percentage of people who would NOT have voted brexit if no deal was on the table!

It was always on the table because it was literally in/out but I agree that referenda are stupid and this one in particular. We have a representative democracy BECAUSE we're supposed to be able to trust our elected reps to know better than we do on political issues, and instead they turned the whole issue into a divisive mudslinging match

[-:Undertaker:-]

Thats not the same thing at all, at the moment they voted, there were people who went to the booth and said “I think we are better off being outside of the EU but having a close relationship and deal with them”. Your example is looking hindsight over the last few months.

Let’s be FAIR here Dan, both sides “scared” people into voting a certain way so we can just throw that one off the table too.

I have never met anyone who voted Leave who said they wanted to Leave but still wanted to be subject to the European courts, European law and European trade tariffs. If that is what somebody wanted, what would be the purpose in leaving?

And remember, I wanted a Deal. But the European Union is trying to annex part of our country for a Deal - acceptable?


It was always on the table because it was literally in/out but I agree that referenda are stupid and this one in particular. We have a representative democracy BECAUSE we're supposed to be able to trust our elected reps to know better than we do on political issues, and instead they turned the whole issue into a divisive mudslinging match

I am not keen on referenda but the problem was that our elected members of Parliament were *so* out of touch with the public on this issue (as proven by the referendum result), added to the fact they'd been promising referendums on any transfers of powers for years and then going back on that. The situation was untenable.

Constitutional issues we now settle by referenda - Devolution, Scotland, Voting systems and so on.

[lawrawrrr]

I have never met anyone who voted Leave who said they wanted to Leave but still wanted to be subject to the European courts, European law and European trade tariffs. If that is what somebody wanted, what would be the purpose in leaving?

And remember, I wanted a Deal. But the European Union is trying to annex part of our country for a Deal - acceptable?



I am not keen on referenda but the problem was that our elected members of Parliament were *so* out of touch with the public on this issue (as proven by the referendum result), added to the fact they'd been promising referendums on any transfers of powers for years and then going back on that. The situation was untenable.

Constitutional issues we now settle by referenda - Devolution, Scotland, Voting systems and so on.

I’d say that’s probably because of you associate with or discuss brexit with though?
If you’re this... passionate about it IRL I’d be scared to share my reasons or views with you, I feel it on here even at times :p

PERSONALLY I know 3 people for sure who voted leave but wanted to keep the ability for them to have freedom of movement/freedom to work and a fairly open trade. Just wanted more CONTROL over the laws, people, money etc.

[-:Undertaker:-]

I’d say that’s probably because of you associate with or discuss brexit with though?
If you’re this... passionate about it IRL I’d be scared to share my reasons or views with you, I feel it on here even at times :p

No that's just because written arguments are always more passionate/cutting. :P

I have about four friends who voted Remain and we discuss pretty much every week. I can hold a debate with someone on this, and enjoy it - but it crosses the line for me when people start telling me that my vote should be made invalid just because they lost. It took the working classes hundreds of years to achieve one man, one vote - and I am not going to lose my only voice.

Remember the Scottish referendum? I was as passionate about Scotland not leaving Britain, but had the Scottish people voted to Leave then that is their democratic decision and I 100% was prepared to respect it. Denying reality does no good in the end.


PERSONALLY I know 3 people for sure who voted leave but wanted to keep the ability for them to have freedom of movement/freedom to work and a fairly open trade. Just wanted more CONTROL over the laws, people, money etc.

Are they under the impression they cannot live and work in Europe if we leave the European Union?

I live in Spain and I am not the slightest bit concerned. Similarly I can easily go and work in non-EU India, China, Australia and Brazil.

[dbgtz]

undertaker debate implies you're actually open to changing your mind and admitting you were wrong
you couldn't even admit you were wrong about something which wasn't even a matter of opinion (https://www.habboxforum.com/showthread.php?t=843277)

and you assist teaching english as a foreign language so no shit you would relatively easily be able to get a job in a foreign country where they look for native english speakers
go try teach history or literally any other job that doesn't rely on the fact you're a native english speaker and tell me how quick & easy that goes

why is it you even want the uk to leave the eu but you dont even want to live here

also it's shit like putting LIAR by a picture of someone that is basically the root of all this shit, oversimplifying every bloody thing and quite frankly inciting hatred against people

[-:Undertaker:-]

and you assist teaching english as a foreign language

I don't assist anything, I teach my own classes.


so no shit you would relatively easily be able to get a job in a foreign country where they look for native english speakers
go try teach history or literally any other job that doesn't rely on the fact you're a native english speaker and tell me how quick & easy that goes

Given Spain has youth unemployment in double figures, why should I expect to just walk in if I am not needed? It's not my country.


why is it you even want the uk to leave the eu but you dont even want to live here

Because i'm not selfish and don't think about ME ME ME when I vote.


also it's shit like putting LIAR by a picture of someone that is basically the root of all this shit, oversimplifying every bloody thing and quite frankly inciting hatred against people

If you think that's bad you should hear what I have to say about the House of Commons. The PM is getting it lightly.

And if you think things are turning nasty now, just you wait. We haven't even scratched the surface as to what'll happen if the cancel our vote.

[lawrawrrr]

I will say this:

Not a single MP, Councillor, party member or person of any kind of influence or power deserves ANY kind of social media vitriol. It’s vile the shit they get sent. Vile, unnecessary, hateful and disgusting.

[-:Undertaker:-]

@lawrawrrr (https://www.habboxforum.com/member.php?u=61966);

But MPs are allowed to call us stupid, thick, we didn't know what we were voting for and to cancel our votes?

Nah, not having that. If the last three years have taught me anything, it is that most of them look down on and hate the people of this country.


I remember before the referendum and afterwards arguing with sceptical family members/people on Twitter who said "it'll never happen, they'll never allow it" and I was saying of course it will because we're a democracy and ultimately the politicians gave us this decision and are bound by it. Well how naive was I in believing that? My belief in constitutional democracy is evaporating with each day.

[lawrawrrr]

are you being personally and viciously attacked no

Are they? yes. They’re being told to graphically die, they’re being stalked and threatened they’re actually terrified

If you defend that I find you vile


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[-:Undertaker:-]

I haven't defended anything, but calling the Prime Minister a liar when she plainly is seems fair to me.

Serious question though, when the vote becomes worthless and the ballot box is closed off what do you think happens?

[dbgtz]

I don't assist anything, I teach my own classes.
ok so you teach english as a foreign language
no real difference to my point



Given Spain has youth unemployment in double figures, why should I expect to just walk in if I am not needed? It's not my country.

but that completely proves lauras point they lose that freedom of movement and it's not as easy as you just claimed it to be



Because i'm not selfish and don't think about ME ME ME when I vote.

it's incredibly selfish to vote for something you won't even feel much, if any, effect from


If you think that's bad you should hear what I have to say about the House of Commons. The PM is getting it lightly.

And if you think things are turning nasty now, just you wait. We haven't even scratched the surface as to what'll happen if the cancel our vote.

"we"
christ youre as bad as farage who doesnt even finish his own march

why is it you completely ignored the first statement, do you actually find it that hard to admit you were wrong

[-:Undertaker:-]

ok so you teach english as a foreign language
no real difference to my point

What is your point?


but that completely proves lauras point they lose that freedom of movement and it's not as easy as you just claimed it to be


If Laura's friends want the unilateral right to go pour coffee in Madrid when Spanish youth unemployment is at 40%+ I would say how entitled and selfish. If they're more qualified, then they'll just have to apply like anybody else. It isn't our country just as ours isn't theirs.

Try instead thinking about those British youth who live in northern towns with poor schools and not many jobs, who are being denied work because the employers use EU Freedom of Movement to bring in Poles who'll sleep 10 to a room and ask for no holiday leave.


it's incredibly selfish to vote for something you won't even feel much, if any, effect from

There won't be any effects, as proven already from George Osborne's laughable predictions.


"we"
christ youre as bad as farage who doesnt even finish his own march

There's a Losers Vote march tomorrow in London, maybe you should go.


why is it you completely ignored the first statement, do you actually find it that hard to admit you were wrong

I'm not going over old ground, and you argue on semantics. Not principles.

[FlyingJesus]

Try instead thinking about those British youth who live in northern towns with poor schools and not many jobs, who are turning down jobs because they feel entitled to more than the employers want to give when plenty of others will do it happily

Fixed that for you, I'm a "leaver" but I don't for any single moment begrudge the capitalist system having its own successes over the laziness of nationals

[-:Undertaker:-]

Fixed that for you, I'm a "leaver" but I don't for any single moment begrudge the capitalist system having its own successes over the laziness of nationals

So we should expect those British youths to live 10 to a house, and take no holiday leave? What a vision in 2019.

[FlyingJesus]

Where are these 10 bed houses? I haven't come across any gangs of Poles renting stately homes. Regardless, ones living arrangements have nothing at all to do with employability as long as there IS a home address, so defunct point :) As for holiday, all employers must by law offer certain amounts of paid leave, and if the employee decides not to take it that's down to them but there's no financial incentive to do that, soOoOoOo another defunct point :)

:)
You seem to be remarkably in favour of government intervention for someone who claims to be a free market libertarian

[dbgtz]

What is your point?

I forgot to finish this point initally so being quick - you basically compared your situation with someone elses when its relatively easy to get a job in a foreign country to teach english because the very nature of language teachers favours native speakers. If you tried teaching another subject in these countries I imagine you wouldn't even be considered until you have significant experience


If Laura's friends want the unilateral right to go pour coffee in Madrid when Spanish youth unemployment is at 40%+ I would say how entitled and selfish. If they're more qualified, then they'll just have to apply like anybody else. It isn't our country just as ours isn't theirs.

Try instead thinking about those British youth who live in northern towns with poor schools and not many jobs, who are being denied work because the employers use EU Freedom of Movement to bring in Poles who'll sleep 10 to a room and ask for no holiday leave.

so many things wrong with this sentence
i'm going to start by tackling the actual point that was made - lauras friend wanted to keep the ability for them to have freedom of movement/freedom to work, you claimed it would be easy to still work in europe which is fundmantally not true, regardless if you think it's wrong or right

it's not really unilateral if spanish people can also come here - and why do you assume they want to go there to pour coffee...


There won't be any effects, as proven already from George Osborne's laughable predictions.

cool


There's a Losers Vote march tomorrow in London, maybe you should go.

at least people will turn up


I'm not going over old ground, and you argue on semantics. Not principles.

it wasn't semantics
semtantics implies that you were actually correct and i was basically just being picky about your wording, but this wasnt the case. you claimed that there was an agreement (there wasn't) that customs would be waived through for I think it was 9 months? which was false - the proposal was to do with where the haulage company was based, allowing them access for 9 months. NOTHING to do with customs checks and NO agreement made


So we should expect those British youths to live 10 to a house, and take no holiday leave? What a vision in 2019.

you're literally the person who wants statutory holiday to be removed, the only thing which actually gets secure holiday for low earners

[-:Undertaker:-]

Where are these 10 bed houses? I haven't come across any gangs of Poles renting stately homes. Regardless, ones living arrangements have nothing at all to do with employability as long as there IS a home address, so defunct point :) As for holiday, all employers must by law offer certain amounts of paid leave, and if the employee decides not to take it that's down to them but there's no financial incentive to do that, soOoOoOo another defunct point :)

We both know these things do count to employers trying to squeeze every penny they can out of a workforce. Polish men, usually of young age, rent a house together and will sleep stacked in the bedrooms so they pay minimal rent. Thus, when an employer is looking for a workforce and they can't get a British workforce it is often because the British workforce (imagine, two kids and monthly rent to pay) cannot afford to work on such low wages. In normal circumstances, the employer would be forced by the market to raise the wages - but due to a pool of cheap labour from Eastern Europe, he doesn't have to. It's a betrayal of a general of Britons who have already been betrayed by a poor education system.

In regards to holidays, it is obvious that Polish men who are here without family will work any hours and will never ask for any time off. Employers love this - no having to work around any family emergencies, childcare or doctors appointments. But this isn't just about the welfare of greedy employers bank accounts, this is about British society - and to have this situation, resulting from EU Freedom of Movement, is not a good thing if you care about more tham GDP figures.


:)
You seem to be remarkably in favour of government intervention for someone who claims to be a free market libertarian

I haven't called myself a free market libertarian for years now. If anything, I am a High Tory.


I forgot to finish this point initally so being quick - you basically compared your situation with someone elses when its relatively easy to get a job in a foreign country to teach english because the very nature of language teachers favours native speakers. If you tried teaching another subject in these countries I imagine you wouldn't even be considered until you have significant experience

Not at all, schools here would jump through hoops for a history teacher who speaks English fluently.


so many things wrong with this sentence
i'm going to start by tackling the actual point that was made - lauras friend wanted to keep the ability for them to have freedom of movement/freedom to work, you claimed it would be easy to still work in europe which is fundmantally not true, regardless if you think it's wrong or right

it's not really unilateral if spanish people can also come here - and why do you assume they want to go there to pour coffee...

Darling, it's relatively easy to work in *any* country provided you have something to offer.


at least people will turn up

They should have turned up when it mattered, ie campaigning (like I did) and voting (like I did). Too late now.


it wasn't semantics
semtantics implies that you were actually correct and i was basically just being picky about your wording, but this wasnt the case. you claimed that there was an agreement (there wasn't) that customs would be waived through for I think it was 9 months? which was false - the proposal was to do with where the haulage company was based, allowing them access for 9 months. NOTHING to do with customs checks and NO agreement made

I honestly don't even remember the argument and I am 3 Cruz Campo (large) beers in. :P

I do apologise for not replying as often lately though, my mood was like a rollercoaster if I am honest.


you're literally the person who wants statutory holiday to be removed, the only thing which actually gets secure holiday for low earners

Absolutely not.

In fact, one thing I have praised Jeremy Corbyn for was introducing statutory holiday for the entire UK for St Andrew/Patrick/George/David Day.

[FlyingJesus]

Employers 10000% do not ask people where they live or how many people are in the house, that's utter nonsense. People living beyond their means and expecting to be given luxuries for nothing are not beneficial to this super-society you seem to think we have, but I'm thoroughly enjoying your flip to communism

[-:Undertaker:-]

Employers 10000% do not ask people where they live or how many people are in the house, that's utter nonsense. People living beyond their means and expecting to be given luxuries for nothing are not beneficial to this super-society you seem to think we have, but I'm thoroughly enjoying your flip to communism

I am talking about supply and demand, as you well know.

Employers offering shit wages should *not* be able to fall back in Eastern European labour in order to avoid raising wages.

[FlyingJesus]

Don't you usually advocate for abolishing minimum wages and allowing businesses to compete as they wish? And no, you're not talking about supply and demand, you're talking about how you believe that employers go out of their way to hire people who live in fantasy 10 bed houses when the reality is that those complaining about jobs being "taken" aren't even applying. You're talking about your belief that Doug The Thug somehow deserves to be paid big business rates for menial work that he doesn't want to do and won't put any effort into. You're talking about supporting government intervention of the highest order with regards to every facet of an employer's rights, which is utterly can't believe it's not butterly hilarious considering your usual stance.

[dbgtz]

Not at all, schools here would jump through hoops for a history teacher who speaks English fluently.

Why did you not go to teach history then?


Darling, it's relatively easy to work in *any* country provided you have something to offer.

still not easier than what we have with freedom of movement/freedom to work which was the point, it typically relies on a) knowing the language of the host country to a certain degree (fair enough), b) an education (in a country where education budgets are being gutted), c) some ties to the country either by relation (pure chance) or by some education/work experience (which brexit will make harder at least for eu countries) and d) work experience in a field, which is reliant on point b


They should have turned up when it mattered, ie campaigning (like I did) and voting (like I did). Too late now.

it's not too late, that's not how the democracy you claim to fight for works


I honestly don't even remember the argument and I am 3 Cruz Campo (large) beers in. :P

I do apologise for not replying as often lately though, my mood was like a rollercoaster if I am honest.

OK well go look at it now and tell me if you were right or wrong rather than deflecting


Absolutely not.

In fact, one thing I have praised Jeremy Corbyn for was introducing statutory holiday for the entire UK for St Andrew/Patrick/George/David Day.

i cba to go and find it but i'm pretty certain you said it was on the employee to negotiate their own holiday and that the state shouldnt be involved
i suspect you still think thats true but accept these 4 days because to you theyre of significance
if i suggested having another 4 days that werent these days you'd probably be dead set against it

[dbgtz]

you literally still can't admit being wrong

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/D2VxfvpWwAAxSZL.jpg
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/D2XDofSWsAEMqti.jpg


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MGwz-u5otzk

[-:Undertaker:-]

Why did you not go to teach history then?

Not got that qualification (yet).


till not easier than what we have with freedom of movement/freedom to work which was the point, it typically relies on a) knowing the language of the host country to a certain degree (fair enough), b) an education (in a country where education budgets are being gutted), c) some ties to the country either by relation (pure chance) or by some education/work experience (which brexit will make harder at least for eu countries) and d) work experience in a field, which is reliant on point b

It will be harder if you are going to pour coffee, sure. But that's about it. Spain for example will still need holiday reps who are native speakers, bar staff who can speak English and teachers who speak English. The same applies for any other industry.

Going to work in Europe or abroad generally is such a minority pursuit anyway and usually only applies to the middle classes. Like I said earlier, my thoughts are more with those in my own country actively *suffering* because of Freedom of Movement.

The public voted to end FoM.


it's not too late, that's not how the democracy you claim to fight for works

Democracy does not mean overturning votes before they are implemented. If Labour wins the next election, how would you react if Theresa May stood outside Number 10 and said "Well, yano, we'll have to do this again because people didn't know what they were voting for." - a travesty of democracy. In the same way it would have been had Scotland been denied its independence.


i cba to go and find it but i'm pretty certain you said it was on the employee to negotiate their own holiday and that the state shouldnt be involved
i suspect you still think thats true but accept these 4 days because to you theyre of significance
if i suggested having another 4 days that werent these days you'd probably be dead set against it

In theory it's a nice idea, but in reality not so. Libertarianism in a nutshell.

Hence why i'm a High Tory.

[FlyingJesus]

Definitely high

[-:Undertaker:-]

Tonight the House of Cockroaches voted to overturn the British constitution, and essentially rob Her Majesty's (elected) Government of the power to organise and introduce bills in Parliament. This is yet another breach of our parliamentary conventions, trashing hundreds of years of rules such as the Speaker being impartial just so they can overturn a democratic referendum result.

I really do think this is only heading one way now...... and it it won't be pretty, but it will be necessary.

1110243131893657608

[dbgtz]

you still cant admit you were wrong so at this point you're just a liar

to the direct above post, i thought the whole point of brexit was parliamentary sovereignty
the government is not elected and theresa may is dicking around so please do describe to me how the people are being sovereign by being hostage to theresa may
also how is the speaker not being impartial, just because hes doing things you do not like does not mean he is favouring either side

and stop trying to dehumanise a bunch of people trying to sort out this shit

[-:Undertaker:-]

to the direct above post, i thought the whole point of brexit was parliamentary sovereignty

So if Parliament is sovereign and passed a law saying we were leaving on the 29th March 2019, how is it that this can be just undone with a letter exchange between the EU and HM Government? Yet to trigger A50, it required an Act of Parliament.


the government is not elected and theresa may is dicking around so please do describe to me how the people are being sovereign by being hostage to theresa may

Excuse me, the government *is* elected and controls the legislative timetable so long as it commands the confidence of the House of Commons. If it does not command the confidence of the House of Commons, then it falls and Parliament is dissolved.


also how is the speaker not being impartial, just because hes doing things you do not like does not mean he is favouring either side

Name me a Speaker who has behaved like this Speaker has.

He has single-handedly destroyed one of the greatest offices in the land. I doubt it will ever recover.


and stop trying to dehumanise a bunch of people trying to sort out this shit

"Trying to sort this shit out" aka cancel a vote.

Historically, what has happened to institutions and people that cancelled votes?

[dbgtz]

still can't do it can you
still can't admit you were wrong about something
really says a lot

what a waste of time