House of Commons votes against ALL Brexit options - AGAIN

[-:Undertaker:-]

So tonight the House of Commons voted again on motions relating to Brexit options, again organsied by the Remainers in Parliament. The disgraceful Speaker, who has destroyed one of the oldest offices in the land, again sided with Remainers and refused any actual Leave options on the ballot paper. A total disgrace - we've never seen anything like it and the damage from this will be long-lasting.

And what happened? The 4 fake Brexit options failed YET AGAIN.

Following the failure of Remainers, Nick Boles MP (who was recently deselected by his local party) resigned the Tory whip.

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The PM *must* go for No Deal in 11 days time and enact the result of the democratic referendum, or the Conservative Party faces a complete collapse. It is going to split regardless at this point, but she can either lose 10 to 30 Remainer MPs or 170+ Leave MPs and the bulk of the Tory Party membership.

RESPECT OUR VOTE OR PAY THE PRICE

[-:Undertaker:-]

If the below is true, this now means the majority of the Cabinet back No Deal. The Cabinet is to meet this morning.

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The Cabinet, majority of Tory MPs, majority of members, majority of Tory voters now moving to No Deal. The political gravity is shifting.

[Seatherny]

Only ignorant fools with zero knowledge of the economic impact want No Deal. Pound drops dramatically everytime we edge closer to no deal, costing businesses more and thus risking more jobs.

[FlyingJesus]

Ahh yes, tell us all with your magical foresight exactly what the impact is of every decision anyone can make

[Seatherny]

Ahh yes, tell us all with your magical foresight exactly what the impact is of every decision anyone can make

A deal or a way forward offers stability, allows businesses to know the economic standing of the country, hence facilitating the decision and investments.

A no deal offers un certainity, reduces investment and forward planning.

I import a lot, the fluctuating GBP makes a huge difference.

[-:Undertaker:-]

How can constant extensions/delays and then years of fruitless trade negotiations offer stability?

And on today's events, I have to say - as a Tory member, if you put a gun to my head now and said May or Corbyn, I would pick Corbyn. I thought nobody could beat Tony Blair in the compulsive liar contest, but she's pretty much there. Her entire premiership has been utter shit.

[FlyingJesus]

I'd rather have uncertainty that we can work with and mould ourselves than a stable shit situation where we bend over for the good of the European Empire at our obvious and provable expense

[Seatherny]

How can constant extensions/delays and then years of fruitless trade negotiations offer stability?

It does not offer stability, but an extension offers hope of of a stable or a "known" future. No deal leads to uncertainity which reduces investment in UK and thus devalues the GBP.


I'd rather have uncertainty that we can work with and mould ourselves than a stable shit situation where we bend over for the good of the European Empire at our obvious and provable expense

You may rather have uncertainity but businesses losing thousands every week don't want that.

[-:Undertaker:-]

It does not offer stability, but an extension offers hope of of a stable or a "known" future. No deal leads to uncertainity which reduces investment in UK and thus devalues the GBP.

How are you coming to that conclusion given we've had 3 years, the EU will not change the Withdrawal Agreement, and Parliament will not pass it?

[Seatherny]

How are you coming to that conclusion given we've had 3 years, the EU will not change the Withdrawal Agreement, and Parliament will not pass it?

To the conclusion that no deal offers no stability? Because we have no idea how trade and imports and exports to EU and many other countries will work. Businesses will not invest in a country where there is no certainity.

If Parliament cannot agree on any options then put the below to the public.

a) Accept Theresa May's Deal - Yes or No
b) If Theresa Mays Deal is rejected, should we: a) Cancel Brexit, b) No Deal Brexit

[lawrawrrr]

who saw this coming wow no clue shocker

[-:Undertaker:-]

@Saurav (https://www.habboxforum.com/member.php?u=11949);

I'm curious about your concern for business when the British economy is doing fine despite the pre-referendum warnings of George Osborne's Treasury, as well as the fact that by signing the one-and-only Withdrawal Agreement the EU is demanding it'll mean business paying £39bn for nothing. How on earth is that a good deal for business?

Add to the fact that the longer the Tory Party puts No Deal off, the more likely it is that the anti-business Marxist McDonnell gets into No 11.

[FlyingJesus]

You may rather have uncertainity but businesses losing thousands every week don't want that.

Cool story but businesses aren't voters. What deal would you go for, out of interest? Considering the fact that the EU won't budge at all on their stance and so the only option for a deal is to give them everything they want

[Seatherny]

@Saurav (https://www.habboxforum.com/member.php?u=11949);

I'm curious about your concern for business when the British economy is doing fine despite the pre-referendum warnings of George Osborne's Treasury, as well as the fact that by signing the one-and-only Withdrawal Agreement the EU is demanding it'll mean business paying £39bn for nothing. How on earth is that a good deal for business?

Add to the fact that the longer the Tory Party puts No Deal off, the more likely it is that the anti-business Marxist McDonnell gets into No 11.

Their warning was partly true in the sense GBP collapsed immediately after a LEAVE vote. If you do not understand how bad a weak pound is then there is no point even replying to your posts as you clearly do not understand the whole process.


Cool story but businesses aren't voters. What deal would you go for, out of interest? Considering the fact that the EU won't budge at all on their stance and so the only option for a deal is to give them everything they want

No, but the people who own and run the businesses are voters. They are also the people who employ people. So disregarding what businesses think is ignorant.

Given the fact leaving (either with or without a deal) is worse for the economy than remaining then personally I would prefer to remain. However, given the fact people voted to leave and that parliament cannot agree on anything, I believe people should be asked two questions which I mentioned in my previous post.

[FlyingJesus]

Yes I'm aware that you want to remain and that you want to have more shitty referenda (worst way to decide policy ever) but you're not actually answering the question, just repeating your psychic prediction

[-:Undertaker:-]

Their warning was partly true in the sense GBP collapsed immediately after a LEAVE vote. If you do not understand how bad a weak pound is then there is no point even replying to your posts as you clearly do not understand the whole process.

And yet the world still turns on its axis.

FTSE 100 companies lost money betting on currency fluctuations. So what.

The country is going to lose £39bn if we sign the ONLY deal the EU is offering. Are you in favour of the Withdrawal Agreement? yes/no


No, but the people who own and run the businesses are voters. They are also the people who employ people. So disregarding what businesses think is ignorant.

Given the fact leaving (either with or without a deal) is worse for the economy than remaining then personally I would prefer to remain. However, given the fact people voted to leave and that parliament cannot agree on anything, I believe people should be asked two questions which I mentioned in my previous post.

Only two minutes ago you were saying the public were all gullible idiots who didn't know anything... now you're demanding they vote on it?

Why not say what you really mean, which is that everyone who disagrees with your position is stupid.

[dbgtz]

people like coldplay and voted for the nazis, so yes people can be gullible idiots
and tbh theres a reason i dont want my gp doing my plumbing

ive also yet to see you apologise or admit being wrong yet undertaker

unrelated tweet
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[lawrawrrr]

To the conclusion that no deal offers no stability? Because we have no idea how trade and imports and exports to EU and many other countries will work. Businesses will not invest in a country where there is no certainity.

If Parliament cannot agree on any options then put the below to the public.

a) Accept Theresa May's Deal - Yes or No
b) If Theresa Mays Deal is rejected, should we: a) Cancel Brexit, b) No Deal Brexit
the ridiculous issue is they're saying NO to may's deal but also no to no deal and also no to cancelling brexit

? ? ? ???

[FlyingJesus]

Did she just use the word unilateral to suggest something that affects the entire world and every country in it? Impressive for a scripted interview

[Seatherny]

Yes I'm aware that you want to remain and that you want to have more shitty referenda (worst way to decide policy ever) but you're not actually answering the question, just repeating your psychic prediction

State your question clearly and I will happily answer.


And yet the world still turns on its axis.

FTSE 100 companies lost money betting on currency fluctuations. So what.

The country is going to lose £39bn if we sign the ONLY deal the EU is offering. Are you in favour of the Withdrawal Agreement? yes/no



Only two minutes ago you were saying the public were all gullible idiots who didn't know anything... now you're demanding they vote on it?

Why not say what you really mean, which is that everyone who disagrees with your position is stupid.

It is not just FTSE 100 companies who lose money "betting on currency fluctuations". Many businesses who import (which a large percentage of businesses do) are affected by currency fluctuations. It leads to increased prices and who pays at the end of the day? The public.

Yes, they were gullible idiots who believed everything they heard people like Boris etc say rather than doing their own research or looking at the situation realistically.

Do I like the Withdrawl Agreement? No, as I do not like the backstop. But I understand why it is there and there is no other solution if we want a hard brexit. There is literally no good solution due to the fact we have a land border with a EU member and we do not want a hard border.

If Parliament cannot agree on any alternatives then yes put it to the public, it is them who will be affected by the result (and it is a major change which will affect several generations) so let them decide it.

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the ridiculous issue is they're saying NO to may's deal but also no to no deal and also no to cancelling brexit

? ? ? ???

Yes.... hence let the public decide if the fools we elected cannot decide.


Why not say what you really mean, which is that everyone who disagrees with your position is stupid.

No, I do not think that. However if people continue to make comments without fully understanding the situation or how what they are saying effects the country and the economy then yes they are ignorant and in some cases stupid. It is better they not speak rather than speaking without know what they are truly talking about.

[lawrawrrr]

State your question clearly and I will happily answer.



It is not just FTSE 100 companies who lose money "betting on currency fluctuations". Many businesses who import (which a large percentage of businesses do) are affected by currency fluctuations. It leads to increased prices and who pays at the end of the day? The public.

Yes, they were gullible idiots who believed everything they heard people like Boris etc say rather than doing their own research or looking at the situation realistically.

Do I like the Withdrawl Agreement? No, as I do not like the backstop. But I understand why it is there and there is no other solution if we want a hard brexit. There is literally no good solution due to the fact we have a land border with a EU member and we do not want a hard border.

If Parliament cannot agree on any alternatives then yes put it to the public, it is them who will be affected by the result (and it is a major change which will affect several generations) so let them decide it.

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Yes.... hence let the public decide if the fools we elected cannot decide.
totally agree to your reply to me. parliament is CLEARLY still voting across party lines. if they won't let us vote on brexit options (as much as i'd like us to remain i'd even accept revoke article 50 NOT being on the ballot) then at LEAST let us vote on mps

I mean surely that is inevitable now??? It's at a total total deadlock????

[Seatherny]

totally agree to your reply to me. parliament is CLEARLY still voting across party lines. if they won't let us vote on brexit options (as much as i'd like us to remain i'd even accept revoke article 50 NOT being on the ballot) then at LEAST let us vote on mps

I mean surely that is inevitable now??? It's at a total total deadlock????

If it goes to a public vote and public vote for a "No Deal Brexit" then I will accept it despite disagreeing with it as that is the democracy we live in. If our elected officials are unable to making a decision on such a significant matter then it is best to let the public decide. But problem is they do not like to give power back.

[-:Undertaker:-]

Do I like the Withdrawl Agreement? No, as I do not like the backstop. But I understand why it is there and there is no other solution if we want a hard brexit. There is literally no good solution due to the fact we have a land border with a EU member and we do not want a hard border.

So you're advocating, as per EU's her Withdrawal Agreement -



Handing the EU a whopping £39bn in exchange for nothing, all of which business will pay in taxation.
Handing the EU 1/4 of our country, including the businesses in it and those which sell/buy products there.
Allowing the EU to make regulations forever for our country, all of which we'll have no say in but which will effect every business.
Allowing the EU to unilaterally control our tariffs, effecting all of our business, without even a say.

And then you say to me you don't want No Deal because of some "uncertainty". It doesn't add up mate.

The alternative to this is that we could be out, in 8 days time, on WTO rules - free to change any tariff/regulation/business law we wanted.


If it goes to a public vote and public vote for a "No Deal Brexit" then I will accept it despite disagreeing with it as that is the democracy we live in. If our elected officials are unable to making a decision on such a significant matter then it is best to let the public decide. But problem is they do not like to give power back.

OHHHH you'll respect it this time will you?

And if you win, do you expect us to accept the outcome this time? Or do we get another go as well?

[FlyingJesus]

State your question clearly and I will happily answer.

What deal would you go for, out of interest? Considering the fact that the EU won't budge at all on their stance and so the only option for a deal is to give them everything they want

What could be clearer? The only options deal-wise are "none at all" and work things out afterwards or "do everything the EU demands" - which one is best for the UK?


If Parliament cannot agree on any alternatives then yes put it to the public, it is them who will be affected by the result (and it is a major change which will affect several generations) so let them decide it.

We did decide.


let the public decide if the fools we elected cannot decide.


if people continue to make comments without fully understanding the situation or how what they are saying effects the country and the economy then yes they are ignorant and in some cases stupid. It is better they not speak rather than speaking without know what they are truly talking about.

So... do you think the public should choose things, or is everyone who doesn't agree with you best off not speaking and having no opinion?

[Seatherny]

So you're advocating, as per EU's her Withdrawal Agreement -



Handing the EU a whopping £39bn in exchange for nothing, all of which business will pay in taxation.
Handing the EU 1/4 of our country, including the businesses in it and those which sell/buy products there.
Allowing the EU to make regulations forever for our country, all of which we'll have no say in but which will effect every business.
Allowing the EU to unilaterally control our tariffs, effecting all of our business, without even a say.

And then you say to me you don't want No Deal because of some "uncertainty". It doesn't add up mate.

The alternative to this is that we could be out, in 8 days time, on WTO rules - free to change any tariff/regulation/business law we wanted.

Do you even read my post before posting? I said I do NOT like the Withdrawl agreement.
This is what I mean, ignorance.

[Seatherny]

What could be clearer? The only options deal-wise are "none at all" and work things out afterwards or "do everything the EU demands" - which one is best for the UK?



We did decide.





So... do you think the public should choose things, or is everyone who doesn't agree with you best off not speaking and having no opinion?

If you read my replies properly, you will see that I have already answered all of the points you have raised here.

[-:Undertaker:-]

Do you even read my post before posting? I said I do NOT like the Withdrawl agreement.
This is what I mean, ignorance.

If you do not like the Withdrawal Agreement then the alternative is No Deal.

[FlyingJesus]

If you read my replies properly, you will see that I have already answered all of the points you have raised here.

No, no you haven't. You haven't answered my question at all, you've deflected it and put it on other people. It's really really extremely simple:
of the two options (AND YES I AM AWARE YOU DO NOT LIKE EITHER, THAT WAS NOT THE QUESTION), which do you think is best for the UK?

[Seatherny]

If you do not like the Withdrawal Agreement then the alternative is No Deal.

See below.


No, no you haven't. You haven't answered my question at all, you've deflected it and put it on other people. It's really really extremely simple:
of the two options (AND YES I AM AWARE YOU DO NOT LIKE EITHER, THAT WAS NOT THE QUESTION), which do you think is best for the UK?

Neither option is good for the economy. Hence let the public decide if they want the Withdrawl Agreement, No Deal Brexit or Stay in EU.

Even if we have No Deal brexit, tell me how we will resolve the Ireland/NI border issue? The country wants a open border, but we do not want a customs union. You can't always have the best of both situations, in some cases like this it does not exist.

[FlyingJesus]

*+*+*+ThAt'S nOt An AnSwEr*+*+*+

[Seatherny]

*+*+*+ThAt'S nOt An AnSwEr*+*+*+

Hey, would you like me to bleed you to death by cutting your left arm or right arm? I know you do not prefer either of these options but pick one.

If you pick a realistic alternative option which I have not given you (which is letting you live) then *+*+*+ThAt'S nOt An AnSwEr*+*+*+

[-:Undertaker:-]

Neither option is good for the economy. Hence let the public decide if they want the Withdrawl Agreement, No Deal Brexit or Stay in EU.

The public have already decided.


Even if we have No Deal brexit, tell me how we will resolve the Ireland/NI border issue? The country wants a open border, but we do not want a customs union. You can't always have the best of both situations, in some cases like this it does not exist.

What is there to solve? It would be the Republic of Ireland that would be forced, still under EU law, to erect customs checks. Not us.

[FlyingJesus]

Hey, would you like me to bleed you to death by cutting your left arm or right arm? I know you do not prefer either of these options but pick one.

If you pick a realistic alternative option which I have not given you (which is letting you live) then *+*+*+ThAt'S nOt An AnSwEr*+*+*+

Oh I see, you're too fanatical to answer properly and equate leaving the EU with death. Also shit analogy anyway since the outcome is the exact same with those options whereas no deal vs May's deal have extremely different outcomes. What was it you said about people who keep making comments without understanding it properly?

[Seatherny]

The public have already decided.



What is there to solve? It would be the Republic of Ireland that would be forced, still under EU law, to erect customs checks. Not us.

And you decided years ago you love UKIP. Suddenly you do not like them. So you're allowed the change your mind but the rest of the country isn't?

[Seatherny]

Oh I see, you're too fanatical to answer properly and equate leaving the EU with death. Also shit analogy anyway since the outcome is the exact same with those options whereas no deal vs May's deal have extremely different outcomes. What was it you said about people who keep making comments without understanding it properly?

I was showing you how ridiculous you keep being by pretending there's only two options when it isn't true. Both options are equally poor so no, my analogy was not shit.

[-:Undertaker:-]

And you decided years ago you love UKIP. Suddenly you do not like them. So you're allowed the change your mind but the rest of the country isn't?

You know, what you lot don't realise is the longer you drag your feet and impede the more the public are just saying let's get the fuck out now.

No Deal once wasn't even discussed other than on the fringes of Ukip. Now it's leading opinion polls. And imagine if this were put in your hypothetical second referendum, where we would campaign on the arrogant politicians overturning our vote. The fury alone would win it.

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[Seatherny]

You know, what you lot don't realise is the longer you drag your feet and impede the more the public are just saying let's get the **** out now.

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No Deal once wasn't even discussed other than on the fringes of Ukip. Now it's leading opinion polls.

You've completely ignored what I said. That is, you're allowed to change your mind but the British public aren't.

[-:Undertaker:-]

You've completely ignored what I said. That is, you're allowed to change your mind but the British public aren't.

Are you suggesting we re-run constitutional referendums every 3 years?

Because it was only a few posts ago you were complaining about uncertainty.

[FlyingJesus]

I was showing you how ridiculous you keep being by pretending there's only two options when it isn't true. Both options are equally poor so no, my analogy was not shit.

It was shit, like the rest of your arguments. "Equally poor" is a shit get-out based on shit guesswork and is a shit comparison to certain death. And yes we do have two options: do what the EU wants or don't. Magically turning off Brexit and remaining after all this is the same as accepting their "deal" - it means we pay out (and continue to pay out) while letting them know that we won't ever stand up to them no matter what they ask of us. If you really think that independent trade options and EU membership (whether in name or effect) are the same thing then you know even less about this than you're showing

[Seatherny]

You know, what you lot don't realise is the longer you drag your feet and impede the more the public are just saying let's get the **** out now.

No Deal once wasn't even discussed other than on the fringes of Ukip. Now it's leading opinion polls. And imagine if this were put in your hypothetical second referendum, where we would campaign on the arrogant politicians overturning our vote. The fury alone would win it.

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It also says "However, recent YouGov research has also showed that No-Dealers and Remainers say that they would prefer to drag out the Brexit process in order to get their preferred outcome"

It also shows a combined majority prefer to remain or extend rather than a no deal brexit.

And lastly, polling is a load of crap, especially in these scenarios, as proven by recent elections where they have been totally wrong.

[Seatherny]

If you really think that independent trade options and EU membership (whether in name or effect) are the same thing then you know even less about this than you're showing

Where have I said they are the same thing? Please show me. You can't because you just make crap up.

[FlyingJesus]

Both options are equally poor

Both options are equally poor

Both options are equally poor

Both options are equally poor

Both options are equally poor

Both options are equally poor

Both options are equally poor

Using this as an excuse not to answer the question shows that you think they're the same thing - either that, or you're just continuing to deflect

[Seatherny]

Using this as an excuse not to answer the question shows that you think they're the same thing - either that, or you're just continuing to deflect

How the hell have you got that from this? My God this is a waste of time. Its impossible to have a reasonable discussion with people here.

[FlyingJesus]

Would you prefer no deal or the EU's deal?
NEITHER THEY'RE BOTH LIKE DYING SO I DON'T HAVE TO ANSWER
Ok but they're not that's a shit analogy, they're very different
NO MY ANALOGY IS GREAT THEY'RE THE SAME THING SO I DON'T HAVE TO ANSWER
They're not the same thing they are extremely different
WHEN DID I SAY THEY'RE THE SAME THING


It is a waste, yes, because you refuse to answer a simple fucking question and deny saying things that are right there in text

[-:Undertaker:-]

Saurav; Your position is like Labour's at the moment, it doesn't exist.

It's the Withdrawal Agreement or No Deal.

There's no HoC majority for another referendum. There's no majority for a time-machine to make the referendum not happen either.

[Seatherny]

Saurav; Your position is like Labour's at the moment, it doesn't exist.

It's the Withdrawal Agreement or No Deal.

There's no HoC majority for another referendum. There's no majority for a time-machine to make the referendum not happen either.

There's no Hoc majority for ANYTHING including a no deal brexit.

There are alternatives and the way HoC is so indecisive the alternative will happen.

[-:Undertaker:-]

There's no Hoc majority for ANYTHING including a no deal brexit.

There are alternatives and the way HoC is so indecisive the alternative will happen.

No Deal doesn't require a majority, it's the legal default.

[Seatherny]

No Deal doesn't require a majority, it's the legal default.

Correct but MP's are happy to block it and do not support it.
There is no majority for anything. This is why it seriously needs to be put to the public to decide.

[-:Undertaker:-]

Correct but MP's are happy to block it and do not support it.
There is no majority for anything. This is why it seriously needs to be put to the public to decide.

So we put it to the public, again, and the MPs still don't support the outcome. What then?

[-:Undertaker:-]

Tonight the House of Cockroaches voted again, by a single vote, to impede the democratic decision of the British people. Fiona Onasanya MP, the convicted criminal who recently went to prison, cast her vote to help to continue to overturn the referendum results. ROTTEN to the core.

The entire Bill was rammed through in ONE 4-hour sitting, totally trashing how our constitutional system works. All aided by a Speaker who openly criticises MPs, is accused of bullying and simply allows Remainer Bills to come back to the House over and over again while Brexit bills are ignored or blocked. It's like a banana republic.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zX4_6j8rps0



https://pbs.twimg.com/media/D3Q8pRWX4AAcp0X.png

[Seatherny]

Tonight the House of Cockroaches voted again, by a single vote, to impede the democratic decision of the British people. Fiona Onasanya MP, the convicted criminal who recently went to prison, cast her vote to help to continue to overturn the referendum results. ROTTEN to the core.

Her vote was canceled out by Chris Davies' vote (a MP who pled guilty of claiming false expenses). As you may be aware he is now awaiting sentencing.

Don't you see shouting that a criminal voted for something you support?

[dbgtz]

1114086264024727554

hardcore brexiteer says during any extension we should use the powers we apparently didnt have to stop the things he said we couldnt stop

[dbgtz]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zPXm5VtxEOg

[-:Undertaker:-]

hardcore brexiteer says during any extension we should use the powers we apparently didnt have to stop the things he said we couldnt stop

Erm why would we want to stay in something we constantly have to fight against? (Not including QMV where we can be outvoted)

1114624791590375425

1114421566941614080

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/D3Z34KOX4AEQnAN.jpg

[dbgtz]

Erm why would we want to stay in something we constantly have to fight against? (Not including QMV where we can be outvoted)

1114624791590375425

1114421566941614080

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/D3Z34KOX4AEQnAN.jpg

youve just moved the goal posts and claimed youre arguing the same thing
qmv doesnt apply to any of the 3 things he mentioned

also i dont think anyone ever said "the EU has so little influence we don't need to leave."

also a somewhat unrelated read: https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1113547733300842497.html

are you ever going to admit youre wrong or keep trying to weasel out of it and just ignore it until i dont bring it up anymore

one last point, that poll is rather misleading, here it is in full:

If you had to choose, which of the following would you most prefer?

No deal Brexit 41%
Long delay to Brexit & UK taking part in EU Parliament elections 35%
May's deal Brexit 16%
Don't know 9%

there is no option to remain
also worth noting that theyre all sky customers

[FlyingJesus]

Can we as a community agree that polls are totally useless and never use them again

[Zak]

Can we as a community agree that polls are totally useless and never use them again

I agree.

Also this post is great, one of the best on here for a while.

[paul99099]

Brexit delayed till Halloween

[Conor]

Brexit Song



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AzYY3OgnWoc

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jiUFPjulTW8





@Sloths (https://www.habboxforum.com/member.php?u=56799); can someone put the inappropriate language spoilers around please? Thank you