Government to ask Queen to prorogue Parliament

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Excellent news!

We voted 3 years ago. Get on with it!

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Absolutely hilarious watching the people who've kicked numerous conventions over, now going ballistic that a standard convention is being deployed.

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[-:Undertaker:-]

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Even if Grieve and the corrupt Speaker Bercow were able to engineer a Standing Order 28 and seize the timetable of the House of Commons from the government (again, driving a coach and horses through convention) then the government could bombard the bill in the Commons and the Lords with amendments to slow its progress. Finally, if it were to then pass both houses in the (now) very limited time - Her Majesty's Government is entitled to instruct The Queen to use the Royal Veto on the legislation.

In short, if Parliament really wants to stop No Deal then it must remove the government *and* find the numbers to replace it.

[Barkseh]

Cracking news. Well done Boris.

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I was avoiding alcohol but I may have a couple tonight in celebration.

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Apparently Number 10 is looking at other tricks to deploy to obstruct and use up parliamentary time.

These include:

- Creating new Bank Holidays in September/October as Parliament cannot sit during a Bank Holiday.
- Hold an Emergency Budget to take up days of parliamentary timetable.
- Create dozens of awkward amendments to bills to delay and drag for time.
- Have Lords filibuster any bills that make it through so they die before the 9th of September (prorogation).
- Potentially flood the Lords with new peers if the any bill looks likely to succeed.
- If a Bill is successful, have the PM advise the Queen to refuse to grant Royal Assent.

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And if a General Election is triggered in the coming days and weeks, here is the current state of play.


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[scottish]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bjghJ6Dy6Do

[dbgtz]

so glad were leaving the undemocractic eu

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Election klaxon.

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And more on Dominic *******'s involvement with Whitehall's No Deal planning ramping up. Plus a BBC NewsNight clip below of which four guests spelling out what they think is most likely to happen, although I have posted the one I think is most realistic out of the four.

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I also found out something interesting today which shows how little time/options Remainers now have left.

The Fixed-Term Parliament Act (FTPA) gives the opposition 14 days in the event of a Vote of No Confidence (VoNC) to propose an alternative government that can command the House of Commons. I have already touched on that. However what I didn't know, and what I was overlooking, was that with prorogation this still applies. In other words, if next week when the Commons returns the opposition hold a VoNC and win - they only have a matter of whatever days are left before the 9th of September to cobble together a government and have the Queen appoint it.

After that, the 14 days will still be counting but Parliament won't be sitting. So what I am saying is, if they go for a VoNC next week and fail to remove the government then an election will be automatically triggered during prorogation and the Prime Minister will then be able to choose the date of that election, obviously after October 31st. This means Parliament will not sit again until the General Election takes place as it will have undergone automatic dissolution with the FTPA.

That famous saying; "If you go for the King, you better make sure you don't miss."

[Inseriousity.]

It's quite refreshing to have a government with a strategy and not just waving a white flag. I'm interested to see whether the opposition will manage to push through their legislation in time. If I remember rightly, their last legislation was done super quick so it might be possible but that was with a government only feebly opposing it. Might be harder if this government will take more extraordinary lengths to slow things down

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It's quite refreshing to have a government with a strategy and not just waving a white flag. I'm interested to see whether the opposition will manage to push through their legislation in time. If I remember rightly, their last legislation was done super quick so it might be possible but that was with a government only feebly opposing it. Might be harder if this government will take more extraordinary lengths to slow things down

If they do manage to pass something, hard to imagine how at the moment. They can demand the Prime Minister request an extension, but that doesn't mean he has to accept the terms of an extension. Ultimately, although they are trying, the House of Commons practically cannot act as the executive - it can only remove an executive and replace it with another.

All this said, Number 10 have said they will advise the Queen to refuse to grant Royal Assent to the bill if it manages to pass so let us hope that they mean what they are saying, unlike the previous PM who was walked all over. Yes it'll create an enormous shit storm on Twitter and in north London as the prorogation did, but the Remainers are kicking conventions over left, right and centre so who cares.

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[Inseriousity.]

By all accounts, they're struggling to decide what the terms of the extension would be. For example, if they just asked the Prime Minister to ask for one, Boris could legally ask for a 6 hour extension and that'd be kosher. So they have to be more specific but they can't agree what the extension should be for. I imagine that this divide+conquer strategy is exactly what they were aiming for.

Isn't that refusing Royal Assent thing just journalistic speculation? Part of the problem of following this story is that it all happens in the westminster bubble and they just start speculating about what could happen rather than what actually will. I am not convinced they'll let it get that far tbh. The prorogation thing is fairly easy to defend and constitutionally above board (longest Parliament with little to do, its only 4 days, this is what always happens, other PMs have done it etc etc) whereas vetoing a Bill you disagree with is more suspect.

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Amusing to see the would-be heads of the Government of Remainer National Unity so popular.

Part of me wants to see a Lab-SNP-Lib Dem-Green-SDLP-Change UK government just to see the electoral bloodbath that would follow lmao.

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By all accounts, they're struggling to decide what the terms of the extension would be. For example, if they just asked the Prime Minister to ask for one, Boris could legally ask for a 6 hour extension and that'd be kosher. So they have to be more specific but they can't agree what the extension should be for. I imagine that this divide+conquer strategy is exactly what they were aiming for.

Indeed.

I read they were looking into inserting an amendment clause into the EU Withdrawal Act forbidding No Deal, but how can that be possible when our departure from the EU isn't based solely on domestic law? They cannot amend the EU treaties and change the terms of Article 50.


Isn't that refusing Royal Assent thing just journalistic speculation? Part of the problem of following this story is that it all happens in the westminster bubble and they just start speculating about what could happen rather than what actually will. I am not convinced they'll let it get that far tbh. The prorogation thing is fairly easy to defend and constitutionally above board (longest Parliament with little to do, its only 4 days, this is what always happens, other PMs have done it etc etc) whereas vetoing a Bill you disagree with is more suspect.

Apparently it is being explored by Number 10.

It makes sense constitutionally as Acts are meant to be passed by governments, if they seize control of the order papers and push one through against the government then that is breaking convention and is a constitutional unknown. I hope they do it if they need to. Fight fire with fire.

https://www.buzzfeed.com/alexwickham/boris-johnson-brexit-extreme-measures

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As Inseriousity; said, so nice to have discipline back.

I would also tell any of them thinking about it that they can forget any peerages.

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[dbgtz]

nice to know were being run by unelected bureaucrat dominic cummings

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Gove on Marr this morning confirming without confirming that the government would ignore/find a way around any law passed.

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The Sunday Times was reporting there are a number of ways around that Number 10 are looking at including;

- The PM requests extension but then vetoes the extension in the EU Council.
- The PM requests extension but requests Hungarian PM Orban vetoes it in the EU Council.
- The PM requests an extension, but doesn't have any obligation to accept the terms.
- The PM requests an extension of an hour.
- The PM threatens to veto all EU business if extension is agreed.
- The PM advises the Queen not to sign the extension into law.

Hard to see how it is possible to legislate around all of those possibilities.

[dbgtz]

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[-:Undertaker:-]

Looks like Number 10s threat of deselection is working with some.

Could be very tight if a handful of Tory Remainers vote for, and a handful of Labour Leavers vote against.

I heard that Remainer MPs want to extend to May 2020 - another 9 fucking months of this. Are they insane? I have a friend who voted Remain, and even his reaction was WTF. As he said, if they're not going to vote for the only deal on the table (3 times rejected) then what more is there to do for another 9 months? 500 hours of parliamentary debate on this and there's not a majority for anything in the House of Commons - other than the majority in the country that was to Leave the European Union.


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And now the odious Blair creature wades in.


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[-:Undertaker:-]

Well today the PM threatened a General Election if the House of Commons votes tomorrow to again break convention and seize control of the HoC timetable. It is being treated as a Confidence issue, so if the government loses tomorrow then on Wednesday they will pre-empt the extension legislation and table a Vote of No Confidence which will trigger a General Election if two-thirds of MPs vote for it as expected.

Any Tory MP voting to change the timetable/extension has been told they will lose the whip, effectively ending their careers. Big day tomorrow.

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The behaviour of politicians in refusing to accept a democratic vote, I genuinely never thought we would sink this low as a country. Depressing.