New Brexit Deal revealed

[-:Undertaker:-]

Britain and the EU agree a new Brexit Deal

European Commission President Juncker says: This Deal or No Deal

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Well, I haven't seen an analysis yet of the new deal but it sounds better than the one May put together. On the face of it, Britain leaves the Single Market/Customs Union, is out of the ECJ, is not tied to EU law and Northern Ireland remains in the UK SM/CU.

The European Commission President ruling out an extension is excellent. Parliament now has to decide this Saturday, does it want this Deal and to enact what people voted for or does it want No Deal which does the same? No more playing games and endless delaying.

Brexit is coming. October 31st.

Thoughts?

[FlyingJesus]

It's not better from what I've seen, it keeps Northern Ireland in the single market and commits to the 39bn+ divorce bill. Can only assume it's been done poorly in a bid to push through no deal as the only alternative

[dbgtz]

I must be missing something because everything I have seen has said it is worse than May's deal...

he also said did not say there will be no extension nor does he have the power to block an extension

[-:Undertaker:-]

It's not better from what I've seen, it keeps Northern Ireland in the single market and commits to the 39bn+ divorce bill. Can only assume it's been done poorly in a bid to push through no deal as the only alternative

It doesn't, and Northern Ireland remains in Britain's customs union. The compromise is that products going into Northern Ireland have to apply EU tariffs, but then can be refunded that with the difference between the EU and UK tariffs. Only certain imports will be targeted too.

The £39bn, I agree I am not happy either - or with the transition. But I will swallow it to get to the end state that this deal allows us to get to, which is that once the transitions are over we are not locked into any European institution which is what the May Deal did. I'll grudgingly take it.

Unlike rabid Remainers, I was always willing to compromise on the journey to independence - but not on the end state.


I must be missing something because everything I have seen has said it is worse than May's deal...

he also said did not say there will be no extension nor does he have the power to block an extension

People who are looking for excuses to reject every deal under the sun but Remain are saying that, unsurprisingly.

President Macron and PM Varadkar also hinted today that no more extensions would be granted.

[dbgtz]

It doesn't, and Northern Ireland remains in Britain's customs union.

except any gb > eire+eu goods still have to have tariffs applied which would presumably occur at a port, effectively creating a sea border. presumably even gb > ni goods would have to be checked somewhere


The compromise is that products going into Northern Ireland have to apply EU tariffs, but then can be refunded that with the difference between the EU and UK tariffs. Only certain imports will be targeted too.

which part of the text are you referring to here?


The £39bn, I agree I am not happy either - or with the transition. But I will swallow it to get to the end state that this deal allows us to get to, which is that once the transitions are over we are not locked into any European institution which is what the May Deal did. I'll grudgingly take it.

northern ireland is
its really not that different to mays deal


Unlike rabid Remainers, I was always willing to compromise on the journey to independence - but not on the end state.

not related to this thread and i probably wont reply to this part, but i want to make a point in how you dont want proportional representation because you dont like compromise and how, in your eyes, it leaves everyone unsatisfied


People who are looking for excuses to reject every deal under the sun but Remain are saying that, unsurprisingly.

President Macron and PM Varadkar also hinted today that no more extensions would be granted.

you mean that famous remainer nigel farage who said the deal should be rejected and there should be a general election

by your logic though undertaker, nobody uses the veto so there would be an extension granted

[FlyingJesus]

After however long of (quite rightly) saying that we shouldn't just give NI to the EU, you're strangely backing a deal that effectively leaves them there for a minimum of 4 years AND takes the decision of whether to extend that or not away from Westminster. Very odd. There is verrrrrrrrrry little difference between this and May's deal, just wording if anything

[-:Undertaker:-]

So basically now either today or tomorrow Parliament will begin voting.

The two wrecking amendments to look out for are the Customs Union and Second Referendum.

If they are passed, the government will drop the bill and the ERG would vote against anyway meaning we go back to square one. The DUP and Tory Remainers have said they will not vote this time for a Customs Union (as it would effectively destroy the Bill) as to allow the Bill to pass through Parliament. But it's going to be a very tight vote. If these amendments fail, the government will likely get the Deal through Parliament and we're on our way out. If the amendments pass, we're back to the living hell of the past 3 years.


except any gb > eire+eu goods still have to have tariffs applied which would presumably occur at a port, effectively creating a sea border. presumably even gb > ni goods would have to be checked somewhere

From what I read, only with some goods.


which part of the text are you referring to here?

What I read with non-UK imports going into NI, that a refund would be given from EU tariffs provided not sold in RoI/EU.


northern ireland is
its really not that different to mays deal

Northern Ireland is also in the new UK Customs Zone.

May's deal would have resulted in NI being fully absorbed into the EU CU and SM.


not related to this thread and i probably wont reply to this part, but i want to make a point in how you dont want proportional representation because you dont like compromise and how, in your eyes, it leaves everyone unsatisfied

It does. That's why I said, so long as Brexit in the final form of what we voted for is delivered, then I will compromise on the journey there but not on the final form. I would prefer to leave this hour with No Deal, but I have to be realistic.


you mean that famous remainer nigel farage who said the deal should be rejected and there should be a general election


Farage is wrong on this.


by your logic though undertaker, nobody uses the veto so there would be an extension granted

It may be wishful thinking that they would use a veto, sure.

That's why I support this Deal being passed this week so we leave on the 31st October.


After however long of (quite rightly) saying that we shouldn't just give NI to the EU, you're strangely backing a deal that effectively leaves them there for a minimum of 4 years AND takes the decision of whether to extend that or not away from Westminster. Very odd. There is verrrrrrrrrry little difference between this and May's deal, just wording if anything

I'm not saying it is ideal or favourable, but with this at least nothing is permanent and there is a way out. Westminster could still repeal unilaterally, lets be real anyway. Steve Baker, Sir Bill Cash and other hardcore eurosceptics have found they can swallow this... that's good enough for me. What other options do we have?

[dbgtz]

From what I read, only with some goods.

where did you read this?



What I read with non-UK imports going into NI, that a refund would be given from EU tariffs provided not sold in RoI/EU.

where specifically in the text?


Northern Ireland is also in the new UK Customs Zone.

May's deal would have resulted in NI being fully absorbed into the EU CU and SM.

well the backstop in mays deal was also only meant to be temporary until one of the many technology-driven alternate solutions that were apparently so readily available came into effect
theres barely any difference whatsoever


Farage is wrong on this.

irrelevant if hes right or wrong, im just disproving that its all remainers who are saying its a shit deal



It may be wishful thinking that they would use a veto, sure.

That's why I support this Deal being passed this week so we leave on the 31st October.

but if nobody uses their vetos why are you even considering their statements to begin with

[-:Undertaker:-]

where did you read this?

Twitter.


where specifically in the text?

I haven't read the text.


well the backstop in mays deal was also only meant to be temporary until one of the many technology-driven alternate solutions that were apparently so readily available came into effect
theres barely any difference whatsoever

May's required consent from the European Union, this version doesn't require consent from the EU.

It only requires a majority in Stormont and it can be unilaterally ended.


irrelevant if hes right or wrong, im just disproving that its all remainers who are saying its a shit deal

Most Brexiteers are backing the new Withdrawal Agreement. We're not wild about it, but it'll suffice.

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but if nobody uses their vetos why are you even considering their statements to begin with

Who knows what has been agreed behind closed doors. I would love them to veto and we leave on No Deal, but I am fully aware that by doing so the European Union would be pulling the plug on the cash cow that Britain is as a member. Who knows, who knows.

[dbgtz]

Twitter.

cool
have you actually confirmed for yourself if this is the case or are you just blindly accepting it


I haven't read the text.

shouldnt you at least skim it before you decide if you agree with it or not


May's required consent from the European Union, this version doesn't require consent from the EU.

It only requires a majority in Stormont and it can be unilaterally ended.

it required agreement, not consent, and primarily that agreement was with eire itself so no different to any other international issue


Most Brexiteers are backing the new Withdrawal Agreement. We're not wild about it, but it'll suffice.

you can post all the pictures you want but all i was doing was disproving your earlier claim


Who knows what has been agreed behind closed doors. I would love them to veto and we leave on No Deal, but I am fully aware that by doing so the European Union would be pulling the plug on the cash cow that Britain is as a member. Who knows, who knows.

cool

[-:Undertaker:-]

cool
have you actually confirmed for yourself if this is the case or are you just blindly accepting it

Various groups who have looked at the text.

You're acting like I am ecstatic with this Withdrawal Agreement.


shouldnt you at least skim it before you decide if you agree with it or not

I'm not a lawyer, so a legal text like this would be as useful me reading it as would the Chinese constitution in Mandarin.


it required agreement, not consent, and primarily that agreement was with eire itself so no different to any other international issue

No other country has a lock with another country on deciding its own laws. May's agreement specifically handed the European Union (and thus the southern Irish) a permanent and possibly never ending veto on whether Britain left the Customs Union.

The current deal places that decision with a simple majority vote in Stormont.

[dbgtz]

Various groups who have looked at the text.

You're acting like I am ecstatic with this Withdrawal Agreement.



I'm not a lawyer, so a legal text like this would be as useful me reading it as would the Chinese constitution in Mandarin.

are the people youre getting your information from lawyers?

the fact is, to counter what you said, steven barclay said that export forms from gb -> ni is required and boris glossed over the fact there would be border checks from gb -> ni, which there will be


No other country has a lock with another country on deciding its own laws. May's agreement specifically handed the European Union (and thus the southern Irish) a permanent and possibly never ending veto on whether Britain left the Customs Union.

The current deal places that decision with a simple majority vote in Stormont.

i thought this whole thing to do with brexit was that we couldnt make our own laws, so surely by that logic all the rest of the eu fall under the category you just mentioned? and then norway, switzerland...

fundamentally you ignore that we could always just leave in mays deal at any point with no deal, which is exactly what you want.

[-:Undertaker:-]

are the people youre getting your information from lawyers?

the fact is, to counter what you said, steven barclay said that export forms from gb -> ni is required and boris glossed over the fact there would be border checks from gb -> ni, which there will be

I read online checks.


i thought this whole thing to do with brexit was that we couldnt make our own laws, so surely by that logic all the rest of the eu fall under the category you just mentioned? and then norway, switzerland...

fundamentally you ignore that we could always just leave in mays deal at any point with no deal, which is exactly what you want.

I'd rather have No Deal.

But this Parliament has shown it won't allow it. Doubtful it'll even allow us to leave if I am honest.