Veganism

[Zak]

Reading an article today about 'how veganism is tearing our families apart".. I got to wondering what ya'll think about vegans and veganism? Do you agree with it? Are you one? What about vegetarians and vegetarianism? Let me hear your experiences.. I'm particularly interested as I am from a farming background and my views can be quite controversial.

The link to the BBC article is below:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/bbcthree/article/1422e623-40b6-47f8-af6d-8603be278643

[-:Undertaker:-]

I think it's totally bonkers.

The latest fad of virtue signalling. What I don't understand is, if you're really concerned with global warming or whatever then why wouldn't you eat a locally sourced delicious lamb, supporting rural practices and the environment, and instead decide to import avocados from another continent?

None of it makes sense and they say ohhhhh the food just tastes the same and it absolutely does not, it tastes vile. I once bought veggie burgers by mistake and binned them, bloody awful. Similarly was given a vegan sausage roll from Sayers (Liverpool Greggs) and couldn't finish it.

My friend's girlfriend recently cooked him a meal (as she always does) but he said instantly he knew something wasn't right, turned around and asked her if this was Vegan/Veggie X (maybe "mince") and refused to eat anymore. Knew something was up from the get go, because it's tasteless crap.

[scottish]

Don't care for it and never tried anything veggie/vegan.

[Samantha]

Never tried to be vegetarian or vegan. It's up to the person if they want to be and for whatever reasons they have. However, I don't see the point in calling something that is vegan the same name as the meat alternative (e.g. Subway now have a "Meatless Meatball Mariana" they're not meatballs then are they?)

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[FlyingJesus]

As someone who doesn't eat carbs, if I went vegan I would literally only be able to eat salad lol

I understand the ethical points but don't agree with all of them. I think too often people conflate sentience with sapience, and any time the question "but why isn't it unkind to kill plants?" the answer seems to be based around a central nervous system, which is not the be all and end all of stimulus response in any way. Fact is, many plants show strong signs of distress when physically encroached upon, but they don't have faces that we can relate to so it doesn't seem to matter as much. I don't think we should go around punching kittens or anything like that, but an animal not wanting to die (because almost nothing in nature WANTS to unless it's specifically evolved to do so in order to further the species) is not the same as being able to reason or having an analogue of human emotions.

If someone wants to cut out meat and dairy then that's fine, do what you like. It's not for me though.

Interesting ethical question to any vegans out there: if someone buys and cooks a chicken and offers it to you as a meal without you ordering it or having given any indication that you wanted it, would it still be "wrong" to eat it? Let's say that the meat will otherwise be thrown away - in both cases the chicken is dead and you had no part in that either directly by killing it or indirectly by buying the meat, but if you refuse it and have it thrown away that chicken's death was in fact for nothing.

[buttons]

As someone who doesn't eat carbs, if I went vegan I would literally only be able to eat salad lol
I literally only eat carbs, how do you do it

[FlyingJesus]

Fuckloads of meat eggs and cheese

[Samantha]

I work with someone who is vegetarian, but is transitioning to being vegan but she's allergic to nuts so it's harder for her. It's rather common where I work though, I believe there's 1 fully vegan person, 2 vegetarians and then the one who's attempting to go vegan as well. It's their choice though, I just didn't realise how common it has become.

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[Zak]

Samantha; It certainly is becoming more common.

I'm surprised by the responses so far - I thought it would be a lot more hostile. Here's a question then, do you think it's important that more people see how these animals are transported, reared and slaughtered? Do you think this would have an impact on meat eaters?

- - - Updated - - -
Samantha; It certainly is becoming more common.

I'm surprised by the responses so far - I thought it would be a lot more hostile. Here's a question then, do you think it's important that more people see how these animals are transported, reared and slaughtered? Do you think this would have an impact on meat eaters?

[-:Undertaker:-]

Zak; I've watched animal slaughter videos - including animal torture videos and it has zero effect on me.

[dbgtz]

I think it's totally bonkers.

The latest fad of virtue signalling. What I don't understand is, if you're really concerned with global warming or whatever then why wouldn't you eat a locally sourced delicious lamb, supporting rural practices and the environment, and instead decide to import avocados from another continent?


do you think vegans substitute all their meat with avocados? what a dumb thing to say. what youre implying is also just fundamentally wrong if the sources of this article are accurate: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-46459714

- - - Updated - - -


I think it's totally bonkers.

The latest fad of virtue signalling. What I don't understand is, if you're really concerned with global warming or whatever then why wouldn't you eat a locally sourced delicious lamb, supporting rural practices and the environment, and instead decide to import avocados from another continent?


do you think vegans substitute all their meat with avocados? what a dumb thing to say. what youre implying is also just fundamentally wrong if the sources of this article are accurate: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-46459714

[-:Undertaker:-]

dbgtz;

I didn't say vegans substitute all meat with avacados so I have no idea what you're arguing about, or who with.

[Zak]

Problem with locally sourced meat is that animal feed is often imported from other countries

[dbgtz]

dbgtz;

I didn't say vegans substitute all meat with avacados so I have no idea what you're arguing about, or who with.

you literally said why wouldnt vegans eat local meat instead of importing avocados, implying that its better to eat the meat and that the avocado is to replace the meat

[-:Undertaker:-]

you literally said why wouldnt vegans eat local meat instead of importing avocados, implying that its better to eat the meat and that the avocado is to replace the meat

Avocados, jackfruit, chickpeas..... whatever hun. Point is, a lot of it comes from abroad.

[Empired]

I don't eat meat for entirely environmental reasons. Have no problems whatsoever with the ethical side of killing animals or whatever (if done properly, respectfully and humanely). I work for a company that bases itself on natural, sustainable, locally sourced food (along with other stuff) so it was pretty obvious I was gonna fall into it at some point. But I also realised I've never loveeddd red meat anyway so honestly just cutting poultry from my diet wasn't hard.

Also I'm in no way die hard - I ate turkey at Christmas at the table with the 14 people we had for xmas lunch because I personally feel like insisting on having a separate veggie friendly option is only adding to energy and resource waste? In my mind, that's just a portion of meat going uneaten and extra food having to be produced somehow in order for me to eat that instead.

But that's just it I think: it's just me trying to make the best decision I can based on the research I'm willing to do. It's all anyone can really do and I think if a lot more people got on with doing that (no matter what their conclusion about "what's best" ended up being - eating locally sourced meat, not eating red meat, going entirely vegan, vegetarian, whatever) then we'd all be in a much better place in terms of health, environmental impact AND ethics if that's something that's important to you.

If you want to start eating less meat though, you've gotta find the way that works for you? Dan and Samanfa (and maybe some other people idk) saying they don't like/approve of "meatless" substitutes for traditionally meat-based options, fine. Don't eat them then, y'know? (This isn't aimed at you guys; I can already see you don't eat them, I'm just saying that's fine.) I really like veggie sausages and have never particularly liked meat sausages, so I eat veggie ones. I like quorn mince but only if I spend the time cooking it right, seasoning it right and turning it into something tasty. I don't like tofu so I make sure I don't eat tofu. And yikes! Eating things I enjoy and not eating things I don't enjoy means I'm happy and look forward to food and mealtimes!

Also side note lol I really like dan and dbgtz's avocado talk when, as a veggie, I am allergic to avocados as they make my throat swell and most of the time does not impact my life in any way at all, but just sometimes I'll go into a restaurant or cafe and p much ALL of their veggie-friendly options that aren't just a side order of bread are avocado. There's a couple of places in my city I just don't even bother going in bc of the bloody avocado on everything :( :( obv this is just a me problem, but I thought I'd share my struggle

Oh edit btw: I don't usually refer to myself as veggie because I will occasionally eat meat and it makes some people REALLY MAD and I cba for that but thought I'd just define myself as that here bc it's a nice concise term

[Zak]

I don't eat meat for entirely environmental reasons. Have no problems whatsoever with the ethical side of killing animals or whatever (if done properly, respectfully and humanely). I work for a company that bases itself on natural, sustainable, locally sourced food (along with other stuff) so it was pretty obvious I was gonna fall into it at some point. But I also realised I've never loveeddd red meat anyway so honestly just cutting poultry from my diet wasn't hard.

Also I'm in no way die hard - I ate turkey at Christmas at the table with the 14 people we had for xmas lunch because I personally feel like insisting on having a separate veggie friendly option is only adding to energy and resource waste? In my mind, that's just a portion of meat going uneaten and extra food having to be produced somehow in order for me to eat that instead.

But that's just it I think: it's just me trying to make the best decision I can based on the research I'm willing to do. It's all anyone can really do and I think if a lot more people got on with doing that (no matter what their conclusion about "what's best" ended up being - eating locally sourced meat, not eating red meat, going entirely vegan, vegetarian, whatever) then we'd all be in a much better place in terms of health, environmental impact AND ethics if that's something that's important to you.

If you want to start eating less meat though, you've gotta find the way that works for you? Dan and Samanfa (and maybe some other people idk) saying they don't like/approve of "meatless" substitutes for traditionally meat-based options, fine. Don't eat them then, y'know? (This isn't aimed at you guys; I can already see you don't eat them, I'm just saying that's fine.) I really like veggie sausages and have never particularly liked meat sausages, so I eat veggie ones. I like quorn mince but only if I spend the time cooking it right, seasoning it right and turning it into something tasty. I don't like tofu so I make sure I don't eat tofu. And yikes! Eating things I enjoy and not eating things I don't enjoy means I'm happy and look forward to food and mealtimes!

Also side note lol I really like dan and dbgtz's avocado talk when, as a veggie, I am allergic to avocados as they make my throat swell and most of the time does not impact my life in any way at all, but just sometimes I'll go into a restaurant or cafe and p much ALL of their veggie-friendly options that aren't just a side order of bread are avocado. There's a couple of places in my city I just don't even bother going in bc of the bloody avocado on everything :( :( obv this is just a me problem, but I thought I'd share my struggle

Oh edit btw: I don't usually refer to myself as veggie because I will occasionally eat meat and it makes some people REALLY MAD and I cba for that but thought I'd just define myself as that here bc it's a nice concise term

I guess it's a good thing for you that avocados might not be around for much longer then :P

[Samantha]

I don't eat meat for entirely environmental reasons. Have no problems whatsoever with the ethical side of killing animals or whatever (if done properly, respectfully and humanely). I work for a company that bases itself on natural, sustainable, locally sourced food (along with other stuff) so it was pretty obvious I was gonna fall into it at some point. But I also realised I've never loveeddd red meat anyway so honestly just cutting poultry from my diet wasn't hard.

Also I'm in no way die hard - I ate turkey at Christmas at the table with the 14 people we had for xmas lunch because I personally feel like insisting on having a separate veggie friendly option is only adding to energy and resource waste? In my mind, that's just a portion of meat going uneaten and extra food having to be produced somehow in order for me to eat that instead.

But that's just it I think: it's just me trying to make the best decision I can based on the research I'm willing to do. It's all anyone can really do and I think if a lot more people got on with doing that (no matter what their conclusion about "what's best" ended up being - eating locally sourced meat, not eating red meat, going entirely vegan, vegetarian, whatever) then we'd all be in a much better place in terms of health, environmental impact AND ethics if that's something that's important to you.

If you want to start eating less meat though, you've gotta find the way that works for you? Dan and Samanfa (and maybe some other people idk) saying they don't like/approve of "meatless" substitutes for traditionally meat-based options, fine. Don't eat them then, y'know? (This isn't aimed at you guys; I can already see you don't eat them, I'm just saying that's fine.) I really like veggie sausages and have never particularly liked meat sausages, so I eat veggie ones. I like quorn mince but only if I spend the time cooking it right, seasoning it right and turning it into something tasty. I don't like tofu so I make sure I don't eat tofu. And yikes! Eating things I enjoy and not eating things I don't enjoy means I'm happy and look forward to food and mealtimes!

Also side note lol I really like dan and dbgtz's avocado talk when, as a veggie, I am allergic to avocados as they make my throat swell and most of the time does not impact my life in any way at all, but just sometimes I'll go into a restaurant or cafe and p much ALL of their veggie-friendly options that aren't just a side order of bread are avocado. There's a couple of places in my city I just don't even bother going in bc of the bloody avocado on everything :( :( obv this is just a me problem, but I thought I'd share my struggle

Oh edit btw: I don't usually refer to myself as veggie because I will occasionally eat meat and it makes some people REALLY MAD and I cba for that but thought I'd just define myself as that here bc it's a nice concise termOh no I don't dislike them/don't approve of them. I mean the way they word the name of them - the Subway thing I believe the actual name is "Meatless Meatball Mariana" there's just no point in the "meatball" part of the name because no part of it is meat so it literally isn't a "meatball". They could call it I don't know "veggieball Mariana" or "Meatless Mariana" (poor example, but hopefully you get my point). So how you said veggie sausages that's fine as it's not suggesting it's made of meat, but if say a company called theirs "veggie pork sausages" there would be no point in the "pork" part of the name. I work in a supermarket so I see a lot of different vegan and vegetarian foods and although they don't really interest me/make me want to try them, I don't disagree with them in the slightest. I think it's great that there's so much more variety nowadays for those who don't eat meat, fish, animal bi-products etc.

Also Zak; I don't think it would help that much, maybe for a few people but not loads. Where I work we have a kill/slaughtered date on the actual pack of meat and where it came from, when I first read this as I was unaware that packages had that on it was a bit weird to see, but it didn't make me stop eating meat (I don't eat a massive amount of it anyway, I have milk everyday so I would struggle being a vegan - I have tried alternatives too).

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[LucyFaye]

Dan and Samanfa (and maybe some other people idk) saying they don't like/approve of "meatless" substitutes for traditionally meat-based options, fine. Don't eat them then, y'know? (This isn't aimed at you guys; I can already see you don't eat them, I'm just saying that's fine.) I really like veggie sausages and have never particularly liked meat sausages, so I eat veggie ones. I like quorn mince but only if I spend the time cooking it right, seasoning it right and turning it into something tasty.

In my eyes, the word "mince" for a veggie alternative is fine because by definition, mince is literally just the way the food is cut. It just generally tends to be minced meat but the word "mince" could be anything to be fair!
Just generally tends to be a word for meat.

But the very definition of "sausage" is meat in a cylindrical shape, so it seems a BIT bizarre to call anything else a sausage lol.

I suppose "veggie/vegan sausages" could be forgiven but calling anything a "meatball" (MEAT ball...) just seems ridiculous!

------------------------------

Anyway, generally, I believe it's the individual's choice what they want to eat, and their reasons are doing so are fine...
But what I can't STAND are the self-righteous, bigoted vegans that can not accept anybody else's way of life and literally call anybody that eats meat "evil" or "heartless"...
I have been told by an animal welfare group that I couldn't possibly care about animal welfare because I eat meat...

I care where my meat is sourced, and how the animals are treated pre-torture and during. They should have a decent quality of life, and have the most humane torture possible.

But we are omnivores... humans have eaten meat since the dawn of time and will continue to do so for centuries to come! It's completely natural. We have just evolved as a society to have an actual meat industry, so that we no longer have to go out and hunt for our own food.

I admire people that can live with a vegan lifestyle but are humble enough to accept everyone else's choices and way of life... but I can not stand the bigoted ones.

:sparkleheart:

[Zak]

Also @Zak (https://www.habboxforum.com/member.php?u=33322); I don't think it would help that much, maybe for a few people but not loads. Where I work we have a kill/slaughtered date on the actual pack of meat and where it came from, when I first read this as I was unaware that packages had that on it was a bit weird to see, but it didn't make me stop eating meat (I don't eat a massive amount of it anyway, I have milk everyday so I would struggle being a vegan - I have tried alternatives too).

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I'm not so sure. I think if people got to experience hatchery, rearing and slaughter for example.. A fair few may be swayed by what they see. Don't get me wrong, the process is controlled and humane(?) but I often hear outrage about this and that but majority are happy to continue eating meat clueless of the process. A date on a packet dehumanises and fails, surely?