US Democratic Party nomination race: Joe Biden pulls ahead of Senator Bernie Sanders

[-:Undertaker:-]

US Democratic Party nomination race: Joe Biden pulls ahead of Senator Bernie Sanders

Former US Vice President Joe Biden is pulling ahead of far-left Senator Bernie Sanders to be the Democratic nominee for 2020


https://www.ksat.com/resizer/qniEZAEexYtcJ9DNvmU_qQb1x38=/1600x900/smart/filters:format(jpeg):strip_exif(true):strip_icc(tr ue):no_upscale(true):quality(65)/arc-anglerfish-arc2-prod-gmg.s3.amazonaws.com/public/NGAERZZ6RZFMNJKLBBFYAKFJ6I.png
Senator Bernie Sanders and former Vice President Joe Biden


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Looks like Biden is pulling ahead of Sanders quite quickly now. The fallback of Sanders makes you wonder if the Labour Party in 2019 and its poor performance with far-left Jeremy Corbyn has made the Democrats think twice about picking a socialist like Bernie Sanders.

Without a major upset, it is likely to be Donald Trump vs Joe Biden for the US Presidency this November.


Thoughts?

[dbgtz]

bernie sanders isnt far left

[-:Undertaker:-]

bernie sanders isnt far left

Was Corbyn far-left in your eyes?

[dbgtz]

Was Corbyn far-left in your eyes?
further than sanders for sure, not really thought about it much though. arguably a lot of what sanders campaigned on is what europe already has, and i dont think youd consider most european states far left as much as you may dislike socialist elements.

[-:Undertaker:-]

further than sanders for sure, not really thought about it much though.

I'd say that siding with Argentina, the IRA and Hamas/Hezbollah over Britain doesn't require much thought, unless you count Joe Stalin as centre-left.

[dbgtz]

I'd say that siding with Argentina, the IRA and Hamas/Hezbollah over Britain doesn't require much thought, unless you count Joe Stalin as centre-left.
open to discussion to avoid conflict =/= siding with them

[sexpot]

Sanders isn't going to get the nomination, the DNC doesn't like him

[FlyingJesus]

I like Joe Biden because look at him when he was young

https://i2.wp.com/metro.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2016/11/joe-biden.jpg?quality=90&strip=all&zoom=1&resize=644%2C665&ssl=1

Ooh wee

[-:Undertaker:-]

open to discussion to avoid conflict =/= siding with them

Oh wow, you actually believe that. Thank god most other people didn't.

[dbgtz]

Oh wow, you actually believe that. Thank god most other people didn't.


feel free to enlighten me to evidence that supports your claim
i also dont understand what any of this has to do with sanders either, you seemed to have turned me saying hes not far left into you smearing corbyn

[-:Undertaker:-]

feel free to enlighten me to evidence that supports your claim

Support for Britain's enemy Argentina when its regime invaded our islands and killed 255 British soldiers, Mr Corbyn had this to say:


In 1982 Corbyn opposed the sending of British troops sent to retake the islands during the Falklands war, instead declaring the war to be a "Tory plot" and condemning the war as a "nauseating waste of lives and money". Before the 2017 United Kingdom general election, he said that he "wanted a UN brokered plan" and "there should have been an opportunity to prevent that war happening by the UN". Corbyn supports a "negotiated settlement" with the Falkland Islands that may involve "some degree of joint administration" with Argentina.

Support for the odious Castro regime that tortures its critics and supports every cause going against this country and the west.


Corbyn is a longtime supporter of the Cuba Solidarity Campaign, which campaigns against the US embargo against Cuba and supports the Cuban Revolution. In November 2016, following the death of former communist President of Cuba Fidel Castro, Corbyn said that Castro, despite his "flaws", was a "huge figure of modern history, national independence and 20th Century socialism...Castro's achievements were many"

Calling the death of mass-murdering terrorist Osama Bin Laden a tragedy.


In an interview with Press TV, he stated about Osama bin Laden's death that there was "no attempt whatsoever that I can see to arrest him and put him on trial, to go through that process" and that "this was an assassination attempt, and is yet another tragedy, upon a tragedy, upon a tragedy".

Support for the Ayatollah's Iranian revolution that led to intellectuals, students and social democrats being taken away and shot dead.


In 2014, Corbyn spoke at the Islamic Centre of England at an event celebrating the 35th anniversary of the Iranian Revolution. He praised Iran's "tolerance and acceptance of other faiths, traditions and ethnic groupings in Iran" and said "I respect Iran's history. I respect what brought about the revolution in 1979"

Calling Hamas and Hezbollah his friends.


At a meeting hosted by Stop the War Coalition in 2009, Corbyn said he invited "friends" from Hamas and Hezbollah to an event in parliament, referred to Hamas as "an organisation dedicated towards the good of the Palestinian people and bringing about long term peace and social justice and political justice in the whole region" and said that the British government's labelling of Hamas as a terrorist organisation is "a big, big historical mistake".

Support for the aims of the IRA and inviting convicted terrorists to speak in our Parliament.


Corbyn is a long-standing supporter of Irish republicanism and describes himself as an "anti-imperialist campaigner" for the region. He invited two convicted bombers, Linda Quigley and Gerry MacLochlainn, to the House of Commons in 1984, from which the Party Leader Neil Kinnock "did everything in his power" to disassociate himself. MacLochlainn met with Labour's front bench in 1994, as part of a delegation. A meeting with Gerry Adams in 1996 was cancelled following pressure from Tony Blair.[83][84] Corbyn responded by saying "dialogue with all parties remains essential if the peace process is to continue". He has been strongly criticised by Labour and Conservative MPs for holding meetings with former members of the PIRA in the Palace of Westminster, to discuss topics such as conditions in Northern Irish prisons and the PIRA ceasefire. At Trafalgar Square marches opposing British troops' placement in Northern Ireland, Corbyn urged (prior to the Bloody Sunday Inquiry) for the British government to officially condemn Bloody Sunday and issue an inquiry into the massacre. When Corbyn stopped the march and addressed the crowd using a bullhorn, police officers warned Corbyn against the move due to the contentious nature of the march.

Corbyn voted against the 1985 Anglo-Irish Agreement, saying that it strengthened the border between Northern Ireland and the Republic of Ireland and he opposed it as he wished to see a united Ireland. In July 1998, Corbyn endorsed the Good Friday Agreement by voting for the Northern Ireland Bill saying: "We look forward to peace, hope and reconciliation in Ireland in the future".

Following the 1987 Loughgall ambush, in which eight IRA members and one civilian were killed in a British Army operation aimed at preventing the IRA trying to blow up a police station, he attended a commemoration by the Wolfe Tone Society and stated "I'm happy to commemorate all those who died fighting for an independent Ireland".

In an interview on BBC Radio Ulster in August 2015, Corbyn said he opposed "all bombing" although he refused to express an opinion about the actions of the IRA specifically, and welcomed the ceasefire and peace process. In May 2017 he said he was "appalled" by the IRA bombing campaign. Danny Morrison, former Sinn Féin head of communications, has said that "Jeremy Corbyn never ever supported physical force in Ireland. You can have this position and still sympathise with those who died like Bobby Sands".

I could go on but you get the general idea from the above.


i also dont understand what any of this has to do with sanders either, you seemed to have turned me saying hes not far left into you smearing corbyn

Trying to assess what you consider far left.

Sanders isn't as nuts as Corbyn, sure, but interesting you call it "smears" when his positions are clear as day.

[dbgtz]

argentina - does not state he supported argentina, wanted resolution through dialogue i.e. the un. the tory plot part was a criticism of thatcher given her weaker polls at the time
cuba - partly fair, but this doesnt say he actually supports castro
bin laden - the lack of trial is the tragedy, not the death

iran - he doesnt actually say he supports anything - if scotland became independent you would respect it but you wouldnt support it
Hamas and Hezbollah - not sure how him saying he invited friends from these groups makes him far left. his whole ethos revolves around engaging in dialogue so what else would he call them
ira - supporting a united ireland isnt left wing at all and i assume you meant had meetings with not invited to speak in parliament since it doesnt say the latter. again, engaging in dialogue. do you know how the whole ireland situation was resolved? oh, engaging in dialogue
i feel like youre confusing anti-war with being pro-opposition and while i dont necessarily agree with his positions on these, that does not make him far left.

on sanders, why are you calling him nuts when some/most of his major policies have worked in other countries

[-:Undertaker:-]

argentina - does not state he supported argentina, wanted resolution through dialogue i.e. the un. the tory plot part was a criticism of thatcher given her weaker polls at the time

A resolution through dialogue... what does that mean? The regime of Argentina invaded the Falkland islands with the intent of annexing them. A resolution was put to the United Nations which condemned the actions of the junta. The Commonwealth condemned them. As did the EEC.

Argentina refused to withdraw from the islands, and the longer Argentina remained the more they could build up defences on the islands which would make taking them back impossible or very costly in terms of lives. Also for consideration was the fact that we had a narrow window of suitable weather in which to launch a task force to retake the islands, else we would have had to have waited by which time they would be dug in.

Given resolution through dialogue was impossible, and Argentina annexed the islands - to not support military action was to support the annexation. Corbyn is quoted in the very paragraph I gave you saying he would give Argentina what it wanted.


cuba - partly fair, but this doesnt say he actually supports castro

I don't know how much more obvious and blunt about it he could possibly be.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/nov/26/jeremy-corbyn-left-uk-politics-fidel-castro


bin laden - the lack of trial is the tragedy, not the death

Ah yes, a real tragedy that.

When reading about WWII I often think about the "tragedy" of Hitler shooting himself and not standing for trial.


iran - he doesnt actually say he supports anything - if scotland became independent you would respect it but you wouldnt support it


He doesn't say he supports it... but attends a celebration for the Islamic Revolution. [facepalm emoji]

That's like attending Peter Sutcliffe's birthday party and saying you're not a fan of the guy.


Hamas and Hezbollah - not sure how him saying he invited friends from these groups makes him far left. his whole ethos revolves around engaging in dialogue so what else would he call them

No, his whole ethos revolves around hanging around with enemies of Britain and the western world. That's why he hangs around with Hamas and Hezbollah, not Israel. That's why he hangs around with the IRA, not the UVF. That's why he hangs around with the Castro regime, not America. That's why he heaps praise on Iran and was employed by Iranian state TV, but just happens to be a vocal critic of Iran's sworn enemy and western-ally Saudi Arabia. It's remarkable that for a man devoted to "bringing people together" he only seems to speak to one side each and every time.

Even more ironic, given he won't share a stage with Tony Blair when it came to the EU referendum and refused to even meet with Chuka Ummuna to discuss forming a coalition government or pushing for a 2nd EU referendum. No "coming together" then from Magic Grandpa.


ira - supporting a united ireland isnt left wing at all and i assume you meant had meetings with not invited to speak in parliament since it doesnt say the latter. again, engaging in dialogue. do you know how the whole ireland situation was resolved? oh, engaging in dialogue
i feel like youre confusing anti-war with being pro-opposition and while i dont necessarily agree with his positions on these, that does not make him far left.

Can you tell me why a backbencher is having meetings with the IRA? And why he attended IRA funerals? Did he meet with the UVF?


on sanders, why are you calling him nuts when some/most of his major policies have worked in other countries

Sanders isn't as nuts as Corbyn simply because Corbyn is such a crank. But we've done Sanders/Corbyn socialism before and seen the results.

[dbgtz]

honestly im not going to bother replying about corbyn anymore as i fundamentally just dont care, dont support labour in a general sense and its irrelevant to what i even said originally. the only thing i will say is i hope you go into this much critique to the people you seem to support, but i dont think you do

on sanders, you seem to keep saying that but dont seem to support it. lets have a look at his key policies:
"green new deal" - something most nations are pushing to at the moment (or something similar) and has never been done before outright
"medicare for all" - most of europe (and the world for that matter) has some kind of socialised healthcare which works
"a welcoming and safe america for all" - literally a country built on immigration and is doable so long as it is managed and i dont think hes ever implied not that i follow any of this to that great of a degree otherwise
"college for all" - lots of european countries do this as well (or have a very small charge) and actually removing the cost element can be beneficial overall

i could keep going on about how other countries have done what sanders wants so