Germany imposes restrictions on unvaccinated people

[-:Undertaker:-]

Germany imposes martial law on unvaccinated people

Old habits die hard as Germany abolishes human rights for those who are not vaccinated

1466412339817857025

Utterly disgusting and increasingly sinister. All - we're told - for a virus so deadly that most do not even know they have it.

I have to say, the conspiracy theorists who I laughed at at the start of this pandemic have turned out to be right.

Basic human rights law and medical rights are being trashed in front of our eyes. Anyone enforcing this tyranny deserves everything they get.

[Seatherny]

Wish they would do this in every country too. So many dumb fucks who refuse to get the vaccine, then end up seriously ill and my hard earned tax money has to pay for their stupidty.



Or can we please do it so NHS refuses to treat those who do not get vaccinated, tell them to go private for their COVID treatment as tax payers should not pay for their empty brain.

[_spirit]

Wish they would do this in every country too. So many dumb **** who refuse to get the vaccine, then end up seriously ill and my hard earned tax money has to pay for their stupidty.



Or can we please do it so NHS refuses to treat those who do not get vaccinated, tell them to go private for their COVID treatment as tax payers should not pay for their empty brain.

I have had both my vaccines, but at the end of the day it should be down to the individual and not enforced against human rights. Like actually try and explain to the individual what the benefits are and not just take the basic human rights away from people!

[jamiexo]

I think at the end of the day, if something isn't required/put into place, no one will do it. Even in cases where things ARE required (such as masks at my workplace), people still refuse to do it, even when they "have to".

Medical exemptions to getting vaccinated, I can 100% agree with. Some people have underlying health issues that may make it very difficult to get the vaccine. One of my friends was very hesitant at first to get the vaccine because he has many allergies that can get pretty intense, so he was worried about what was in them. After much research though into what was actually in them, he realized it would be safe and got vaccinated. So, yes, medical exemptions are legitimate.

However, any other exemptions tend to make me roll my eyes. In my current workplace, we have federal funding, so we are required to have every staff member vaccinated. You are allowed to file a medical or religious exemption, though. When I think of religious exemptions, I think it's just a cover-up of not getting one due to your political reasons, and not religion. But, obviously if you label it as "religious exemption", people are going to be less-willing to fight it than if it were to be political, so everyone gets out of it that way. That's just my personal thoughts about the United States in my area. It might be different around the world, but I know this is the case in my area.

*adding onto Saurav; 's response, there was actually a person in my area that was in the hospital on his death bed with COVID, and one of his last few words were "I should've gotten the vaccine". Like yes pal, bit too late for that eh

Thank you for listening to my 8am rant, have a great day y'all, get ur vaccines :D

[Seatherny]

I have had both my vaccines, but at the end of the day it should be down to the individual and not enforced against human rights. Like actually try and explain to the individual what the benefits are and not just take the basic human rights away from people!

Really .... you want the government to explain the benefits? What the hell have they been doing for almost a year? Have people not seen on TV for 2 years what this virus does? If someone still needs an explanation, then wow.

[_spirit]

Really .... you want the government to explain the benefits? What the hell have they been doing for almost a year? Have people not seen on TV for 2 years what this virus does? If someone still needs an explanation, then wow.

Well a lot of people are actually scared because the vaccines have not been through all the right trails which I totally understand. But at the end of the day it should be down to the individual and also if your exempt then you should not be forced to have it

[Seatherny]

Well a lot of people are actually scared because the vaccines have not been through all the right trails which I totally understand. But at the end of the day it should be down to the individual and also if your exempt then you should not be forced to have it

And do you think you or your parents do any research when you get other vaccines as a child? Do you think your parents did research when they made you get your 8, 12, 16 week vaccines? The vaccines are 99.9% safe, yet some people are paranoid. These people are total idiots and not deserving of my tax money when they fall ill with COVID.

[_spirit]

And do you think you or your parents do any research when you get other vaccines as a child? Do you think your parents did research when they made you get your 8, 12, 16 week vaccines? The vaccines are 99.9% safe, yet some people are paranoid. These people are total idiots and not deserving of my tax money when they fall ill with COVID.

Did you forget the fact I had my 2 vaccines, please don’t come across rude it’s just a fact that some people are exempt and can’t have the vaccine, and others are scared because they know people who have had covid and died after being vaxed, it’s just fact it might not be down to the vaccine but people think it could be after this vaccine was rolled out way to fast. I do see both sides though over it all tbh. And again I feel it should be down to the person to make their own choice as it’s basic human rights

[FlyingJesus]

the vaccines have not been through all the right trails

This is incorrect

[Brad]

And do you think you or your parents do any research when you get other vaccines as a child? Do you think your parents did research when they made you get your 8, 12, 16 week vaccines? The vaccines are 99.9% safe, yet some people are paranoid. These people are total idiots and not deserving of my tax money when they fall ill with COVID.

This is what I have been saying since day 1. Since the vaccine was introduced and people were asked to get it. I've been saying that research and vaccine facilities have more funding, more resources and better technology that does not require lengthy testing periods because they are able to get a more accurate reading from their testing stages based on their ability to extract and dissect and refine their findings.
Good on Germany for doing this.

[Seatherny]

Did you forget the fact I had my 2 vaccines, please don’t come across rude it’s just a fact that some people are exempt and can’t have the vaccine, and others are scared because they know people who have had covid and died after being vaxed, it’s just fact it might not be down to the vaccine but people think it could be after this vaccine was rolled out way to fast. I do see both sides though over it all tbh. And again I feel it should be down to the person to make their own choice as it’s basic human rights



Yes I forgot you had doses because I read all your posts and know what is going on in your life... how the hell is what I said linked to whether YOU had your doses or not. My post is aimed any anyone who is not medically exempt and thinks these vaccines are not safe. If you have the vaccines, you are less likely to die. You are less likely to end up severely ill. You are less likely to waste my tax money.

[_spirit]

This is incorrect

It might be incorrect but it’s what some people think

[-:Undertaker:-]

Hahaha you lot asking for more vaccines are more dense than granite.

How many more vaccines must you take, and how much longer will you wear a mask for before you wake the hell up? Most of the population has adhered to these measures, including vaccine passports in France and STILL the virus continues and it will ALWAYS CONTINUE. A virus that most people do not even realise they have. Get some bloody perspective will you all. You're all running scared of a cold while the people who've made you scared are partying - even they don't believe it.

No government will force me to take a vaccine, ever. Just try it and see what happens.

https://pbs.twimg.com/ad_img/1468248442971561990/zRonbcE7?format=png&name=900x900

[-:Undertaker:-]

Really .... you want the government to explain the benefits? What the hell have they been doing for almost a year? Have people not seen on TV for 2 years what this virus does? If someone still needs an explanation, then wow.

"What this virus does"

Yeah, a runny nose for the vast majority of people. If that.

UNLESS you're about 88 with advanced dementia, multiple strokes and at the end of your life. Then it may shave a few weeks off your lifespan. Aka nature.

[-:Undertaker:-]

I think at the end of the day, if something isn't required/put into place, no one will do it. Even in cases where things ARE required (such as masks at my workplace), people still refuse to do it, even when they "have to".

Yes, this used to be known as living in a free country where the state doesn't own your body or form your opinions.

[Seatherny]

"What this virus does"

Yeah, a runny nose for the vast majority of people. If that.

UNLESS you're about 88 with advanced dementia, multiple strokes and at the end of your life. Then it may shave a few weeks off your lifespan. Aka nature.

What a shit you are. Countless nurses and doctors who are not "88 with advanced dementia" have died from COVID. I can't believe anyone can be so ignorant. What a waste of oxygen.

[FlyingJesus]

Happy to go get my booster on Sunday, tiny little inconvenience in order to drastically lower the chances of severe symptoms should I end up catching the virus - which is what it's for, as no scientist in the world is saying that the vaccines will stamp it out entirely. Imagine not even understanding this very simple fact and then going on to call others dense



It might be incorrect but it’s what some people think

Those they're wrong, as is posting it as though it's a factual statement

[-:Undertaker:-]

What a shit you are. Countless nurses and doctors who are not "88 with advanced dementia" have died from COVID. I can't believe anyone can be so ignorant. What a waste of oxygen.

Countless? Really? Could you please provide statistical evidence for this remarkable statement please.

For background, there are around 300,000 registered doctors (https://www.statista.com/statistics/698278/registered-doctors-united-kingdom-uk-by-age/)in Britain and over 500,000 registered nurses (https://www.google.com/search?rlz=1C1CHBF_en-GBGB916GB916&q=how+many+registered+nurses+uk&spell=1&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwih9OjCh9j0AhXMjqQKHdcEAYYQBSgAegQIARAy&biw=1920&bih=942&dpr=1).

Looking forward to an answer.

[Seatherny]

Countless? Really? Could you please provide statistical evidence for this remarkable statement please.

For background, there are around 300,000 registered doctors (https://www.statista.com/statistics/698278/registered-doctors-united-kingdom-uk-by-age/)in Britain and over 500,000 registered nurses (https://www.google.com/search?rlz=1C1CHBF_en-GBGB916GB916&q=how+many+registered+nurses+uk&spell=1&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwih9OjCh9j0AhXMjqQKHdcEAYYQBSgAegQIARAy&biw=1920&bih=942&dpr=1).

Looking forward to an answer.



"At least 115,000 health and care workers have now died from Covid-19 around the world, according to updated figures from the World Health Organization."

https://www.bmj.com/covid-memorial

One life is one life too many.

[FlyingJesus]

Don't be silly Saurav, if you're able to count them it's not a problem at all! Semantics are of course the most important thing, not human life and suffering

[-:Undertaker:-]

See, below is the sort of emotional nonsense we're all being subjected to. Here's someone who says essentially that this won't end until nobody is dying of Coronavirus, which is as stupid as someone saying that because 1,300,000 people die each year globally of car traffic accidents, therefore all road transportation should cease. After all, one life is too many. Are you prepared to give up your life until the impossible is achieved? I'm certainly not, nor is my Grandad who is 87.

Given Saurav could only quote a global figure, let's look at some global death rates per year for certain illnesses/accidents just to get some context.


- 1,300,000 die each year globally from car accidents.
- 250,000 to 500,000 die each year globally from the common flu*, with 3m to 5m severely sick with it.
- 2.8m people die each year globally from being obese.
- 750,000 people die each year globally from drug use.
- Roughly 2.1m people have died globally each year since Covid-19* began.

* both the common fly and Covid-19 are infections which attack the already very sick, very elderly and dying.

Now that's sad and all but that is life.


What a shit you are. Countless nurses and doctors who are not "88 with advanced dementia" have died from COVID. I can't believe anyone can be so ignorant. What a waste of oxygen.

I'm asking for the British number, not numbers from Timbuktu where the average life expectancy is 40 odd. How many British healthcare workers have died?

[Seatherny]

See, below is the sort of emotional nonsense we're all being subjected to. Here's someone who says essentially that this won't end until nobody is dying of Coronavirus, which is as stupid as someone saying that because 1,300,000 people die each year globally of car traffic accidents, therefore all road transportation should cease. After all, one life is too many. Are you prepared to give up your life until the impossible is achieved? I'm certainly not, nor is my Grandad who is 87.

Given Saurav could only quote a global figure, let's look at some global death rates per year for certain illnesses/accidents just to get some context.



Now that's sad and all but that is life.



I'm asking for the British number, not numbers from Timbuktu where the average life expectancy is 40 odd. How many British healthcare workers have died?



I quoted a British figure also.

[-:Undertaker:-]

I quoted a British figure also.

So a list of 45 doctors, of which a handful were over 80 and a sizable proportion over retirement age - that's it? That's your justification for locking down society?

I would also add, of these 45 doctors, we do not know if they died with Covid-19 (as is usually the case) or because of Covid-19.

[FlyingJesus]

Weird how in some parts of the argument you loathe older people and think they're an expendable drain on society who we should throw to the wolves because they're all about to die anyway, and in others you pretend to be compassionate and caring about their mental well-being. It's almost like you have an agenda you're not willing to bend on or learn anything about and are just saying whatever you can to make it sound reasonable.

Also please stop repeating the nonsense that covid only affects old people, it's a flat out lie and you know that. You've been told about this sort of thing before; opinions (even stupid ones BASED on lies) we can't stop, but posting actual untruths that promote dangerous behaviour will not be happening here

[Seatherny]

Weird how in some parts of the argument you loathe older people and think they're an expendable drain on society who we should throw to the wolves because they're all about to die anyway, and in others you pretend to be compassionate and caring about their mental well-being. It's almost like you have an agenda you're not willing to bend on or learn anything about and are just saying whatever you can to make it sound reasonable.

Also please stop repeating the nonsense that covid only affects old people, it's a flat out lie and you know that. You've been told about this sort of thing before; opinions (even stupid ones BASED on lies) we can't stop, but posting actual untruths that promote dangerous behaviour will not be happening here



My friend is 34, been jabbed twice, healthy, no medical conditions, still ended up in hospital in October with COVID.

[jamiexo]

My friend is 34, been jabbed twice, healthy, no medical conditions, still ended up in hospital in October with COVID.

I had it last October, and I mean obviously that was before the vaccines, but I got super super sick. My whole family did. I developed mild asthma from it as well, so definitely not fun.

[Seatherny]

I had it last October, and I mean obviously that was before the vaccines, but I got super super sick. My whole family did. I developed mild asthma from it as well, so definitely not fun.



According to Dan, you must be aged 80+ and quite frankly as you are allegedly so old, if you die it's ok.

Oh wait Dan, this member is not 80+ ... how on earth did a young person end up in A&E? Oh wait, it was probably something else and the member is probably delusional to think it was COVID.

STOP WITH YOUR BULLSHIT ON A FORUM WITH YOUNG MEMBERS AND GROW THE HELL UP.

[-:Undertaker:-]

Weird how in some parts of the argument you loathe older people and think they're an expendable drain on society who we should throw to the wolves because they're all about to die anyway, and in others you pretend to be compassionate and caring about their mental well-being. It's almost like you have an agenda you're not willing to bend on or learn anything about and are just saying whatever you can to make it sound reasonable.

Also please stop repeating the nonsense that covid only affects old people, it's a flat out lie and you know that. You've been told about this sort of thing before; opinions (even stupid ones BASED on lies) we can't stop, but posting actual untruths that promote dangerous behaviour will not be happening here

You've just lied about me saying Covid-19 only affects older people. I haven't said anything of the sort - what I have said, which is backed by all of the government statistics themselves, is that Covid-19 only really kills those who are in their 80s and 90s, and who have significant co-morbidities such as hypertension, heart disease, dementia and other severe illnesses. If you have evidence to claim the opposite of this is true, then feel free to post it but I do note that you never do and instead prefer to somehow try and threaten me. Evidence please or zip your mouth.


https://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/640/cpsprodpb/664E/production/_111409162_corona_cases-nc.png


My friend is 34, been jabbed twice, healthy, no medical conditions, still ended up in hospital in October with COVID.

Yeah and people in their 30s, 40s and 50s have ended up in hospital pre-Covid from normal flu each and every year. What's your point?


According to Dan, you must be aged 80+ and quite frankly as you are allegedly so old, if you die it's ok.

Oh wait Dan, this member is not 80+ ... how on earth did a young person end up in A&E? Oh wait, it was probably something else and the member is probably delusional to think it was COVID.

STOP WITH YOUR BULLSHIT ON A FORUM WITH YOUNG MEMBERS AND GROW THE HELL UP.

Stick to the numbers please and not this emotional caps lock rant.

Now, you tried suggesting that doctors and nurses were dropping dead in the NHS from Covid-19 and this simply isn't the case as I pointed out. Therefore, let's try and work out where your logic leads to - you're saying that the deaths of 45 doctors (older, and who died with not of Covid-19) is seemingly enough to justify locking down civil society.

So given Covid-19 is never ever going to disappear and will continue to mutate and claim lives forever, are you suggesting that the restrictions on our lives ought to be permanent? And if not permanent, can you put a timescale on how long and until when you think these measures should remain in place?

Please try and reply and follow a logical argument and not just say something stupid like granny killer or whatever else.

[FlyingJesus]

"I haven't said anything of the sort" then same sentence "it only kills old people"

ONLY kills people in their 80s and 90s with serious comorbidities????? Incredible. Tell it to the families of those who died that weren't old withered folk. You know what, I warned you plenty of times about spouting dangerous lies, it's not welcome here and neither are you if you're going to persist. Even your own graph shows that you're a liar

[-:Undertaker:-]

"I haven't said anything of the sort" then same sentence "it only kills old people"

ONLY kills people in their 80s and 90s with serious comorbidities????? Incredible. Tell it to the families of those who died that weren't old withered folk. You know what, I warned you plenty of times about spouting dangerous lies, it's not welcome here and neither are you if you're going to persist. Even your own graph shows that you're a liar

I said "only really kills older people" which as you should know, as a native English speaker, means mainly a specific group.

And that is true. The vast majority of deaths from Covid-19 are from those in their 80s and 90s with co-morbidities. That's a statistical fact.

Deaths by age group:

https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/covid-deaths-in-context
https://www.ons.gov.uk/aboutus/transparencyandgovernance/freedomofinformationfoi/covid19deathsbyspecificcomorbidityandagegroup


Deaths by existing health condition:

https://bmcpublichealth.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s12889-021-10427-2


Many of the relevant underlying health conditions are also more common at older ages, and people with underlying health conditions account for the majority of COVID-19-related hospital and intensive care admissions [6]. This is reflected in United Kingdom (UK) national guidance describing individuals at moderate or high risk of severe COVID-19 (Table 1), which is based on age and underlying health conditions.



Now can you refute any of this with some evidence or are you going to try to threaten your way out of engaging with the debate again?

[FlyingJesus]

Ok but you're still wrong, it does not "only really" kill the elderly. A majority, even a large one, is not a totality. You're wrong to say that, you're wrong to dismiss even a minority of deaths just because they don't fit with your story, and sure yes I will "threaten" again because I do not want you and your lies polluting my community that I care about; stop trying to deliberately mislead people when lives are literally at stake.

Your childish rebel vision of freedom does not trump the safety of the people here, and I'm more than happy to edit out your dangerous nonsense if you keep going with it. This is not the place for that sort of thing, and no before you cry even more you don't have the right to post anything you want.

[-:Undertaker:-]

Ok but you're still wrong, it does not "only really" kill the elderly. A majority, even a large one, is not a totality. You're wrong to say that, you're wrong to dismiss even a minority of deaths just because they don't fit with your story, and sure yes I will "threaten" again because I do not want you and your lies polluting my community that I care about; stop trying to deliberately mislead people when lives are literally at stake.

Your childish rebel vision of freedom does not trump the safety of the people here, and I'm more than happy to edit out your dangerous nonsense if you keep going with it. This is not the place for that sort of thing, and no before you cry even more you don't have the right to post anything you want.

I never said a totality because "only really" doesn't mean a totality.

That's why you edited out "really" in your quote because you're a liar. And like all liars, when you get found out you start to bully and threaten. I've been quite clear throughout this that the vast majority of deaths from Covid-19 are from the very elderly who are suffering significant co-morbidities. Don't like that fact? Tough.

[Seatherny]

You've just lied about me saying Covid-19 only affects older people. I haven't said anything of the sort - what I have said, which is backed by all of the government statistics themselves, is that Covid-19 only really kills those who are in their 80s and 90s



Which country are you on about, because if you are talking about UK then you are a liar.

Deaths for period 1 October 2020 to 30 September 2021

Total death (laboratory-confirmed cases of COVID-19) = 97,695

42.5% of the deaths were under 80.
19.5% of the deaths were of people under the age of retirement.

"Covid-19 only really kills those who are in their 80s and 90s" ... really? Data suggests you are a liar (as usual).

Source: https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/covid-19-reported-sars-cov-2-deaths-in-england/covid-19-confirmed-deaths-in-england-to-30-september-2021-report#age-and-sex-distribution

[Seatherny]

So given Covid-19 is never ever going to disappear and will continue to mutate and claim lives forever, are you suggesting that the restrictions on our lives ought to be permanent? And if not permanent, can you put a timescale on how long and until when you think these measures should remain in place?

Please try and reply and follow a logical argument and not just say something stupid like granny killer or whatever else.



What restrictions are in place? Wearing masks? Asking the public to take a vaccine? Is this too much to ask when deaths since COVID have been higher almost every month when compared to the last 5 years average for each month?

You know why in India COVID has been controlled so well? Because people do not argue, they realise wearing masks and washing hands is for the greater good. Here, the prime minister literally had to teach people how to wash their hands properly last year, that is disgusting. People here refuse to wear masks... because liberty and shit. Oh grow up, wear a mask when around others, wash your hands, its good hygiene and helps to save lives. You moan in other debates during elections that NHS is struggling, yet you promote things which cause strain on the NHS. It is ridiculous. Wear a mask, maintain good hygiene, get a medically approved vaccine, how can people say this is too much to ask?

You know what is sad? Here the government has to beg people to get a vaccine. In poor countries, people beg the government to give them a vaccine.

[-:Undertaker:-]

Which country are you on about, because if you are talking about UK then you are a liar.

Deaths for period 1 October 2020 to 30 September 2021

Total death (laboratory-confirmed cases of COVID-19) = 97,695

42.5% of the deaths were under 80.
19.5% of the deaths were of people under the age of retirement.

"Covid-19 only really kills those who are in their 80s and 90s" ... really? Data suggests you are a liar (as usual).

Source: https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/covid-19-reported-sars-cov-2-deaths-in-england/covid-19-confirmed-deaths-in-england-to-30-september-2021-report#age-and-sex-distribution

You quoted it yourself. 56,163 over 80, although yes the age group of 70 has significant numbers so I should have said 70s to 90s.

These are incredibly small numbers, especially when you take into account the national life expectancy which is 81 as well as the fact that many of these people had significant co-morbidities. Not only that, on the link you yourself quoted it says "†Deaths within 60 days of a positive COVID-19 test or where COVID-19 is mentioned on the death certificate." so we cannot even say these people died of Covid-19 because they died with Covid-19.

Take my Grandmother for example. She is a month away from turning 87, she has advancing dementia as well as high blood pressure, but other than that she is fine in terms of her physical health. Now, if she were to go into hospital whether for Covid-19 or say a heart attack, but she was recorded as having Covid-19 and then died - her death would go down as a Covid-19 death when, given her age and state of health, it would not truly be a Covid-19 death as there are significant underlying causes.

It is simply not the case that people are dropping dead from this statistically mild virus.


https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/image_data/file/133610/Figure2a.png

[-:Undertaker:-]

What restrictions are in place? Wearing masks? Asking the public to take a vaccine? Is this too much to ask when deaths since COVID have been higher almost every month when compared to the last 5 years average for each month?

Oh only mandating what people wear, barring family from visiting dying relatives in hospitals and care homes, forcing people to pay ridiculous sums of money for travel tests which friends of government happen to supply, ruining the hospitality industry with unworkable rules, scaring the life out of people and more.

Have you been denied access to a hospital to see a dying relative? I wonder how that feels.


You know why in India COVID has been controlled so well?

India has low death rates because of a lower life expectancy and a younger population.

Western countries are more prone to higher death rates because of an older population and due to longer life expectancy, more people are living with serious health conditions which they would not be living with in countries such as India, because they would already be dead. The same applies to Africa and Asia.


Saurav]Because people do not argue, they realise wearing masks and washing hands is for the greater good. Here, the prime minister literally had to teach people how to wash their hands properly last year, that is disgusting. People here refuse to wear masks... because liberty and shit. Oh grow up, wear a mask when around others, wash your hands, its good hygiene and helps to save lives. You moan in other debates during elections that NHS is struggling, yet you promote things which cause strain on the NHS. It is ridiculous. Wear a mask, maintain good hygiene, get a medically approved vaccine, how can people say this is too much to ask?

You know what is sad? Here the government has to beg people to get a vaccine. In poor countries, people beg the government to give them a vaccine.

The fact that Indians do not critically question government policy and instead vote along caste and religious lines isn't the winning argument you think it is.

As for your points on masks, vaccines and socially distancing - you yourself are free to do all this. But you do not have the power to enforce it on me.

[Seatherny]

You quoted it yourself. 56,163 over 80, although yes the age group of 70 has significant numbers so I should have said 70s to 90s.

These are incredibly small numbers, especially when you take into account the national life expectancy which is 81 as well as the fact that many of these people had significant co-morbidities. Not only that, on the link you yourself quoted it says "†Deaths within 60 days of a positive COVID-19 test or where COVID-19 is mentioned on the death certificate." so we cannot even say these people died of Covid-19 because they died with Covid-19.

Take my Grandmother for example. She is a month away from turning 87, she has advancing dementia as well as high blood pressure, but other than that she is fine in terms of her physical health. Now, if she were to go into hospital whether for Covid-19 or say a heart attack, but she was recorded as having Covid-19 and then died - her death would go down as a Covid-19 death when, given her age and state of health, it would not truly be a Covid-19 death as there are significant underlying causes.

It is simply not the case that people are dropping dead from this statistically mild virus.


https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/image_data/file/133610/Figure2a.png



19.5% of the deaths were of people under the age of retirement.

Oh my God. I give up. People such as yourself is why my taxes are going up. Wasting NHS money by literally being stupid. Filling up NHS beds by being stupid and killing those who did the right thing.

[-:Undertaker:-]

1470526739000532993

Can anyone tell me how just long they are prepared to put up with this way of life?


19.5% of the deaths were of people under the age of retirement.

Oh my God. I give up. People such as yourself is why my taxes are going up. Wasting NHS money by literally being stupid. Filling up NHS beds by being stupid and killing those who did the right thing.

Yes, and I am not denying that people will not die from this virus just as the flu and other viruses kill thousands of people each year.

What I am arguing with you about is that deaths from this virus are inevitable from now and until forever. Are you therefore saying restrictions are forever?

[Seatherny]

India has low death rates because of a lower life expectancy and a younger population.

Western countries are more prone to higher death rates because of an older population and due to longer life expectancy, more people are living with serious health conditions which they would not be living with in countries such as India, because they would already be dead. The same applies to Africa and Asia.



The fact that Indians do not critically question government policy and instead vote along caste and religious lines isn't the winning argument you think it is.

As for your points on masks, vaccines and socially distancing - you yourself are free to do all this. But you do not have the power to enforce it on me.

Indias population is 10x that of UK, death number is lower than UK so your argument of life expectancy and younger population is null and void.

"Indians do not critically queston government policy" hahaha oh my God, don't comment on something you have zero clue about. I am a British Indian, I visit India regularly, my extended family all live in India, I know exactly how the public there behave and believe me, every move, law, action is put under the microscope not just by the media and the opposition, but by the people.

The India you are quoting is of 20-30 years ago. There is a reason why the country is booming, and why the UK is ... well sinking.

[Seatherny]

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Can anyone tell me how just long they are prepared to put up with this way of life?



Yes, and I am not denying that people will not die from this virus just as the flu and other viruses kill thousands of people each year.

What I am arguing with you about is that deaths from this virus are inevitable from now and until forever. Are you therefore saying restrictions are forever?

Wearing a mask and washing hands is not a restriction, it is good hygiene. I assume you are probably one of those people who refuses to wash their hands after having a shit because REBEL.

[-:Undertaker:-]

Indias population is 10x that of UK, death number is lower than UK so your argument of life expectancy and younger population is null and void.

Well no that supports my argument doesn't it that the Indian population is a lot younger and therefore less affected by Covid-19.


"Indians do not critically queston government policy" hahaha oh my God, don't comment on something you have zero clue about. I am a British Indian, I visit India regularly, my extended family all live in India, I know exactly how the public there behave and believe me, every move, law, action is put under the microscope not just by the media and the opposition, but by the people.

The India you are quoting is of 20-30 years ago. There is a reason why the country is booming, and why the UK is ... well sinking.

I have been to India and I have seen the disabled literally drag themselves along a pavement outside religiously divided slums. Don't talk nonsense.

[-:Undertaker:-]

Wearing a mask and washing hands is not a restriction, it is good hygiene. I assume you are probably one of those people who refuses to wash their hands after having a shit because REBEL.

Wearing a mask I personally find intolerable and pointless in terms of my health and that of society, so therefore I do not do it. As for washing hands, I agree with you that not washing hands is disgusting but I thought that long before Covid-19. You can be in favour and advocate things without making it the law to do so.

If someone wants to wear a mask, knock yourself out. If someone doesn't want to wash their hands, in my view that's disgusting but still their right to do so.

[Seatherny]

Well no that supports my argument doesn't it that the Indian population is a lot younger and therefore less affected by Covid-19.



I have been to India and I have seen the disabled literally drag themselves along a pavement outside religiously divided slums. Don't talk nonsense.

You have been to India once, I lived there for half my life and visit every few months.

Dont try and lecture me on India. I have seen homeless people die of death in the cold, does that mean the British people "do not critically question government policy and instead vote along caste and religious lines"? Because I do not see how a country with 80m population having homeless people dying every night due to the cold is any better to a few poor person you saw in a country with 1bn+ population? A country which the UK robbed but yet still has homeless people, people claiming benefits, people struggling to put food on the table? People who the PM has to teach basic hand washing?

The difference in the two countries slums is that since 1970, UK started bulldozing slums and putting people in houses so the world did not see these poor people. Yet more people are becoming poor hence the housing shortage and homeless people dying every day in UK. India is only starting to help them now as we finally have a PM who is not corrupt. I employ 200 people in India, I visit regularly, I lived there for half my life, my wife lived there for 30 years, don't try and teach me about India.

[-:Undertaker:-]

As if to prove my point that he views things in a very strange way to put it kindly, Saurav is now trying to equate poverty in Britain with that of India.


You have been to India once, I lived there for half my life and visit every few months.

Dont try and lecture me on India. I have seen homeless people die of death in the cold, does that mean the British people "do not critically question government policy and instead vote along caste and religious lines"? Because I do not see how a country with 80m population having homeless people dying every night due to the cold is any better to a few poor person you saw in a country with 1bn+ population? A country which the UK robbed but yet still has homeless people, people claiming benefits, people struggling to put food on the table? People who the PM has to teach basic hand washing?

Homelessness in Britain is mainly caused by drugs and alcohol addiction/misuse, or a distrust of authorities, which makes many of those homeless unwilling to accept long term help or shelter. Of course it is a problem, and yes sadly people do die from the cold now and again but it is nothing compared to the grinding poverty I saw in India.

I have never seen in Britain for example mothers and fathers cut off the limbs of their own children to scar them for life in order to earn begging money.


I employ 200 people in India, I visit regularly, I lived there for half my life, my wife lived there for 30 years, don't try and teach me about India.

Must be visiting the nice parts, certainly doesn't reflect the parts of Bombay I visited with unimaginable poverty.

[Seatherny]

Wearing a mask I personally find intolerable and pointless in terms of my health and that of society, so therefore I do not do it. As for washing hands, I agree with you that not washing hands is disgusting but I thought that long before Covid-19. You can be in favour and advocate things without making it the law to do so.

If someone wants to wear a mask, knock yourself out. If someone doesn't want to wash their hands, in my view that's disgusting but still their right to do so.

"Wearing a mask I personally find... pointless"... well almost every expert scientist disagrees with you and scientific research has proved it helps to reduce the spread of these viruses. This alone proves how little your knowledge on basic common sense things are and how unwilling you are to listen to experts or scientific facts. Therefore, it is pointless debating with someone who is so stupid, that if I held a apple in my hand, and asked which fruit I am holding, you will say Orange just to be a rebel because you think it is so cool. People like you are a waste of time. Goodbye.

[-:Undertaker:-]

"Wearing a mask I personally find... pointless"... well almost every expert scientist disagrees with you and scientific research has proved it helps to reduce the spread of these viruses. This alone proves how little your knowledge on basic common sense things are and how unwilling you are to listen to experts or scientific facts. Therefore, it is pointless debating with someone who is so stupid, that if I held a apple in my hand, and asked which fruit I am holding, you will say Orange just to be a rebel because you think it is so cool. People like you are a waste of time. Goodbye.

Scientists say a lot of things, at the start of this crisis the experts said masks made very little difference until suddenly they did not, and scientists have also come up with some very peculiar modelling of transmission and death rates which have been proven completely and utterly false. I don't live my life by what Matt Hancock, Sajid Javid and Chris Whitty have to say, I make my own judgements because I live in a free society and I have critical thinking skills in which I treat whatever the government tells me with great scepticism. You're free to disagree with me but that's where your power ends, in disagreement. Not enforcement or compulsion.

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That's why, last Christmas and New Year I was mixing with family having a party while Boris Johnson and his experts told you not to... but then went and did it themselves.

[Seatherny]

As if to prove my point that he views things in a very strange way to put it kindly, Saurav is now trying to equate poverty in Britain with that of India.



Homelessness in Britain is mainly caused by drugs and alcohol addiction/misuse, or a distrust of authorities, which makes many of those homeless unwilling to accept long term help or shelter. Of course it is a problem, and yes sadly people do die from the cold now and again but it is nothing compared to the grinding poverty I saw in India.

I have never seen in Britain for example mothers and fathers cut off the limbs of their own children to scar them for life in order to earn begging money.



Must be visiting the nice parts, certainly doesn't reflect the parts of Bombay I visited with unimaginable poverty.

As I said, comparing India of years ago to today is pointless. If I take a bus tour of tourists to only poor parts of UK, they will also have a biased view. There are more "poor" people in the UK than in India. The only difference is the 10x population and the UK government putting these "poor" people in houses and feeding them with my tax money. Just because the government hides the poverty, doesn't mean UK isn't filled with poverty. There is a reason why Marcus Rashford has to raise money to feed kids, because of poverty in UK.

The cutting off limbs you are talking about, I have hardly seen this, but hey ho, if you see one person with a missing limb, all Indians must be doing this. Glad they are not at least murdering their kids for God knows what reason like British parents/carers Thomas Hughes and Emma Tustin did. I would never see this in India. You must be visiting or living only in nice parts of UK as London is full of rapists and other parts are filled with child murderers ... oh wait! You can't generalise the whole country based on a few lunatics. But you don't mind doing this do you? So lets now say UK is full of rapists and child killers. Oh I am glad we never see this in India.

[Seatherny]

Scientists say a lot of things, at the start of this crisis the experts said masks made very little difference until suddenly they did not, and scientists have also come up with some very peculiar modelling of transmission and death rates which have been proven completely and utterly false. I don't live my life by what Matt Hancock, Sajid Javid and Chris Whitty have to say, I make my own judgements because I live in a free society and I have critical thinking skills in which I treat whatever the government tells me with great scepticism. You're free to disagree with me but that's where your power ends, in disagreement. Not enforcement or compulsion.

That's why, last Christmas and New Year I was mixing with family having a party while Boris Johnson and his experts told you not to... but then went and did it themselves.


Sadly due to your stupidity, I have to pay an additional £60,000 in taxes every year. So yes, sadly those with brains have to pay for idiots like you.

[-:Undertaker:-]

As I said, comparing India of years ago to today is pointless. If I take a bus tour of tourists to only poor parts of UK, they will also have a biased view. There are more "poor" people in the UK than in India. The only difference is the 10x population and the UK government putting these "poor" people in houses and feeding them with my tax money. Just because the government hides the poverty, doesn't mean UK isn't filled with poverty. There is a reason why Marcus Rashford has to raise money to feed kids, because of poverty in UK.

The cutting off limbs you are talking about, I have hardly seen this, but hey ho, if you see one person with a missing limb, all Indians must be doing this. Glad they are not at least murdering their kids for God knows what reason like British parents/carers Thomas Hughes and Emma Tustin did. I would never see this in India. You must be visiting or living only in nice parts of UK as London is full of rapists and other parts are filled with child murderers ... oh wait! You can't generalise the whole country based on a few lunatics. But you don't mind doing this do you? So lets now say UK is full of rapists and child killers. Oh I am glad we never see this in India.

Are you really comparing Kirkby in Liverpool to Dharavi in Bombay?

I think I'll have to call it a night on that one. Anyone interested can Google both places and see what I mean. xD

[Seatherny]

Are you really comparing Kirkby in Liverpool to Dharavi in Bombay?

I think I'll have to call it a night on that one. Anyone interested can Google both places and see what I mean. xD

Like I said, because London has seen rape cases, Marcus Rashford has to beg the government to feed kids, and parents killing children in UK, UK must be filled with rapists, child killers and full of poverty. I guess poverty is the reason why people are killing their children in the UK because they cannot afford to feed them, so they kill them and they rape and kill because well... mentally ill and stressed from being poor.

Glad we do not see this in India! or anywhere else!

if anyone is interested, they can Google what I have said and you will find London has a lot of rape murders and parents do kill children in UK and parents can't afford to feed their kids!

See how easy it is to twist things?

[Seatherny]

PS - Say what you want after this. I am no longer replying to your bullshit. I am fed up of trying to talk sense in to people. Instead, I have to pay for their ******ed brain. Like I said, the fact here the government has to beg people to take a vaccine whereas in poor countries people beg the government to give them a vaccine just shows how these rebellions think they are smart and privileged. Just because you think you are smart does not mean you are, inside you may think you are, but to the rest of the world you are just a sad little human who we all feel sorry for. We try and help, but at the end, we know some people will never learn. And then these same sad people cry about anxiety and depression and mental illness. Why? Attention seeking. That is why.

Goodbye.