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http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/...8981F120121009Quote:
Scotland will hold a vote in 2014 on independence in what could result in the eventual breakup of Britain, a British government minister said on Tuesday.
If Scotland wants to leave they can, I don't really see it benefiting them all that much and I think quite a few realise that:
It would be a shame to see a break up of the United Kingdom.Quote:
Polls suggest between 30 and 40 percent of Scots currently support independence.
Can't see them breaking up but we will see.
I would absolutely hate to see the Scottish people leaving the United Kingdom, who I consider as British as I am. Scotland has, as a part of the United Kingdom, contributed so much more than its demographics would suggest - our proud shared history through the Act of Union to the building of the British Empire, the defeat of the French Empire at Waterloo, the abolition of slavery in the Atlantic sphere, the spread of common law and liberty to Africa/Asia and beyond, Empress Victoria and the Royal Family, World War I & II battles, the fight against socialism in the Cold War period, the recapture of the Falklands - this is my history, British history.
I would comment however that the present devolution situation (which the Labour Party brought in as an electoral technique of holding onto power in strongholds even when they lost power) is unstable and needs a solution - and the only solution in the long term is that devolution is reversed and we have one parliament at Westminster. Why? because if Scotland/Wales and Northern Ireland are to make their own laws on matters in their own pariaments, then the Union thus becomes nothing more than a conveyor belt of cash from England to the outer regions - at which point England would then say enough is enough (similar to Catalonia in Spain).
A referendum ought to be held on whether we stay together (no devolution, one parliament) or we seperate and have our own parliaments.
I really hope they put thought into it when voting rather than voting yes just to be 'patriotic'
i dont consider myself british and dont want to be part of that, but i will be voting no. scotland just wouldnt last on it's own legs, unfortunately.
Why? it is much better that they vote depending on how they 'feel' - patriotism isn't really an argument, patriotism is just something you feel based on history and culture and that is why we have nation states and why some nations states sometimes end.Quote:
Originally Posted by The Don
If they feel British on the whole and feel we are one nation, then they ought to stay - if not, as much as i'd hate to see them leave, then I would have to accept that the concept of Britain had died up north and that it is time to call it a day. If they remain but don't consider themselves the same as us, then be prepared for the hate and anger that will arise from England having to subsidise Scotland.
If they vote honestly (and I don't know which way that is) then we'll either remain together or call it a day, but if we remain together for all the wrong reasons then decades of negative rivalry lay ahead (think Czech Republic and Slovakia, Spain and Catalonia, Quebec and Canada etc).
Scotland could easily survive if reforms were undertaken and i'd urge you to vote on whether you feel British or not rather than English subsidies to Scotland. If not, you and others will just deepen the divide between England and Scotland as I mentioned above.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hulk
I really would like the people in Scotland to stay, but please be honest with yourselves.
Wasn't really expecting a debate out of this lol, I think when voting, taking into account the pros and cons their choice will have is far more sensible rather than voting no simply because they are being 'patriotic' without understanding what impact it will haveQuote:
Originally Posted by -:Undertaker:-
Surely federalism is a viable option?Quote:
Originally Posted by -:Undertaker:-
To an extent I'd agree, but the current call for independence essentially sparked from Scotland not having an independent identity and being directly represented on the world stage, though this is pretty much complete bull crap if you think about it logically.Quote:
Originally Posted by The Don
No, and for a number of reasons.Quote:
Originally Posted by dbgtz
The first is that the United Kingdom is a unitary state, our common law and constitution is made up of a series of documents which have created a system which works well and is designed so that it is flexible. If a federal state were to be created, then it'd be likely that our whole constitutional system would have to be rewritten and thus we'd then end up with a constitution written up by the Labour Party, Conservative Party and Liberal Democrats - and imagine what it could contain or forbid not to mention the fact that documents such as the Acts of Union, Magna Carta etc would be defunct which I find sinister. Indeed, no politcal party ought to be able to overturn our constitution - ever.
The second is, that i've never seen much point in federal states apart from the United States which it is suited to because it has had a single history, demographically and geographically it's very large (and spread out amongst the 50 states) and has a single culture of 'America' which remains strong. It is about the only country which I have ever seen federalism as desirable (in theory) and I say in theory because the federal government of America is now out of control and acts as a powerful central government which causes division between the states who are fighting for control over that powerful central government.
The United Kingdom on the other hand is different. Imagine for a second, that in the House of Lords or 'British Senate' the home nations of England/Scotland/Wales and Northern Ireland each having equal voting power on issues. Now considering the population of England is about 10 times that of any of the others, can you imagine a situation where the people in England would find Scottish, Welsh or Irish vetoes in anyway acceptable?
In issues that would arise from that, the divide and breakdown of 'Britishness' would only worsen.
If they want independence let them, but I think they should be made aware of the cost and effort it will be to change all the countries within the United Kingdom before voting. Scotland will have to write up a constitution unless all countries of the UK create a legal, economic and social group where we follow the current "constitution(s)" (or what we have close to ones) to limit any problems.
I fear people are doing it for patriotic reasons when Scotland is already it's own unique country, and not realising this.